haha the police just have better records.

i have a charge of growing pot that got DISMISSED

but i hear about that shit EVERY TIME i get pulled over

10/20/2005 1:03:26 PM

Quote :

"im just waiting for someone to say that if she gets pregnant from this, its her own fault for not being on BC or making the guy use a condom - even if she was raped"

If that happens, I think I'm going to kill somebody.

10/20/2005 1:03:48 PM

Quote :

"News to me--probably because I've never been asked about charges on an application. Only convictions."

some employers take it upon themselves to look your record up.

like at real jobs...

10/20/2005 1:04:32 PM

i'm sure she went to the hospital and had the rape kit done and they give you the morning after pill then, but if for some reason she didn't, i'm sure some people here would think that it's her fault

10/20/2005 1:04:52 PM

No means now

10/20/2005 1:04:56 PM

Quote :

"some employers take it upon themselves to look your record up. like at real jobs... "

Dude, even when I worked at Nortel they didn't do that.

10/20/2005 1:05:21 PM

ill help


but then i personally believe, in cases where there is no question that the guy raped her (and cases where he KNEW she was too fucked up to give consent and still fucked her, or whatever), that they should be subject to anal gang rape and then shot

10/20/2005 1:05:36 PM

well i guess times have changed, cause i got asked about my record at an interview with NCR just recently.

10/20/2005 1:06:13 PM

^ agreed

10/20/2005 1:06:20 PM

Again does this need to be discussed?

She didn't consent so the child is his fault and the law is clear on that.


This argument is concerning what is NOT in the law and that is the moral responsibility of the girl to accept some personal responsibility in not putting herself in a compromising position. Yall who are saying we are blaming the victum look at this:

1) She trusted a guy she "knew".
2) She chose to go back to a room with the guy.
3) She chose to get drunk at the party.

Explain to me that given this how she is not in some way responsible for the events of that night. Like I said, if you are arguing that we are blaming the victum completely, then I don't know who you are arguing with. We are just stating what I would think would be the obvious, that is, that there are decisions that the girl could have made, has she been thinking reasonably, that would have prevented this stuff from happening.



If this pisses yall off because "this happened to you" or whatever, then I am sorry for that, but then again, I have punched a lot of guys' noses in, but I havn't ever tried to defend someone who starts a brawl. Likewise, just because you went through it doesn't mean that you should try to cover-up the responsibility of the girl in this situation.

-Pack

10/20/2005 1:08:20 PM

so if the girl passed out and he still had sex with her or if she said no or tried to push him off, she's still partly responsible?

10/20/2005 1:09:50 PM

of course she is

she shouldnt have been there

cause god knows, maybe she did want to hook up with him (so she went back to his room) but she didnt want to have sex with him
some guys dont seem to understand that distinction, just because a girl will make out with you does not automatically mean that you deserve to get fucked too

10/20/2005 1:11:41 PM

Point being that if your point is "she was too fucked up", I am saying that there is a moral responsibility to not be fucked up.


If I get "fucked up" and decide to get into my car and I kill someone, I am at fault because, even though I was too "fucked up" to know better, I allowed myself to loose control and do things I would not normally do. This is EXACTLY what the girl did. She allowed herself to loose control and no one is saying that in her situation she should be prosecuted. We are saying, however, that there is some lesson to be learned. To say otherwise is without a doubt a perfect example of neglecting personal responsibility.

-Pack

10/20/2005 1:12:22 PM

^ exactly!

10/20/2005 1:12:24 PM

Quote :

"she shouldnt have been there"

^^^this is all we are saying. There is a lesson for her to learn.

10/20/2005 1:13:19 PM

so say you were drunk and walking down the street and a group of guys jump you and kick your ass, it's partially your fault since you were drunk?

10/20/2005 1:13:30 PM

you know, not saying the girl didnt drink what she drank of her own free will
but some guys will just feed a girl fucking drinks and shots to try and get her more fucked up so they can get some

[Edited on October 20, 2005 at 1:13 PM. Reason : ^^I WAS BEING SARCASTIC, asshole]

cause god knows, if she wasnt gonna fuck him she shouldnt have gone home with him
cause going home with someone AUTOMATICALLY entitles them to get laid

[Edited on October 20, 2005 at 1:14 PM. Reason : .]

10/20/2005 1:13:39 PM

sounds like a lot of the girls in this thread taking this shit personally have been drunk at one too many frat party

its good they made a law for you guys

10/20/2005 1:16:39 PM

If you are a COLLEGE girl and you don't think that going home with a COLLEGE guy makes the guy start thinking about getting laid, then you are an idiot and probably deserve some embarrusment.

Especially a college freshman who is just now getting their "own place." I mean, honestly. I know some of your are seniors who waste a crap load of time on tww because you have crappy majors or whatever, but try to think back to when you were a freshman and what were most of your freshmen-male friends trying to do....


....point proven. The more you guys explain the female mindset, the more I am thinking that this girl isn't irresponsible, she is just stupid. Anyway, seriously, I got class so yall have fun.

10/20/2005 1:17:32 PM

ive never had a problem like this when i was drunk at a frat party

sure theyre gonna think about getting laid
guys think about getting laid all the time
but it shouldnt be assumed that youre getting some just cause the girl goes home with you, and it CERTAINLY doesnt mean youre entitled to get some

[Edited on October 20, 2005 at 1:18 PM. Reason : .]

10/20/2005 1:17:56 PM

Quote :

"its good they made a law for you guys "

hahaha.....nice

10/20/2005 1:18:05 PM

so its the GDIs that are raping bitches

i KNEW IT

10/20/2005 1:18:54 PM

i know girls that have been raped/sexually assualted by both frat boys and gdis
in about equal numbers

10/20/2005 1:20:05 PM

so its guys that are raping bitches

I KNEW IT

10/20/2005 1:20:58 PM

haha ok now that made me laugh

10/20/2005 1:21:37 PM

i don't know many people, in fact i don't know anyone that has been raped...

who the fuck y'all hangin out with

10/20/2005 1:21:47 PM

so is this shit still speculation or has there been a single fact posted since the first post?

10/20/2005 1:23:56 PM

i'm about 100% sure that no new facts are known.

just a bunch of opinions and conjecture.

10/20/2005 1:25:30 PM

Quote :

"sounds like a lot of the girls in this thread taking this shit personally have been drunk at one too many frat party"

Umm...let's see.

I haven't touched alcohol in about 15 years.

I was assaulted just over 14 years ago.

Yeah.

10/20/2005 1:26:53 PM

this is the jackleg and rjrgrl thread

but quite frankly, it has been A LOT more entertaining than all of chit chat.


^ RULE NUMBER 1 OF TWW: Don't let it get personal.

[Edited on October 20, 2005 at 1:28 PM. Reason : .]

10/20/2005 1:27:17 PM

many of us agreed that are practical preventative measures which can be taken, but not taking them doesnt mean someone is morally deserving of being raped.

i think the latest set of arguments have been in a slightly different arena. i believe we can all agree having sex with a passed out person means consent has not been given (provided there was no prior consent saying wait til i'm passed out, which i doubt is ever the case).

To get at the recent set of arguments I'm going to make sex equal to recieving an item from someone else. Consentual sex involves them giving it to you (also you giving them an item b/c it takes 2 ppl). Rape involes taking it rather than it being a gift. I think both parties getting so drunk that they both consent, when normally they would never engage in sex, does not make one party more to blame than another. And I think some of the guys on Tdub are reacting strongly because they believe some people are saying in that situation its all the guys fault.

I think what many of those people are actually saying is the idea that not taking practical preventive steps doesn't make you morally responsible for being a victim of theft. Although it understandable that some of the guys of tdub are misinterperting this argument, because the law does seem to have some bias in that it says guy's can't experience this kind of theft but women can. & on an internet message board with many different dicussions contained in this one topic, its easy to mix up discussions of moral deservingness, partical steps, and what the law says.

10/20/2005 1:29:06 PM

i knew these people were taking it personally

and yes i posted a link to a technician article with ncsu police talking about it

if that counts as fact...

10/20/2005 1:32:32 PM

Quote :

"but not taking them doesnt mean someone is morally deserving of being raped."

And no one has been saying that which is why I feel like there are about 3 people arguing against an opinion that doesn't exist

10/20/2005 2:47:44 PM

Quote :

"There's a difference between rape and theft. People don't blame the victim when they get mugged."

People also don't usually claim they were mugged after they willingly gave something to somebody.

Quote :

"a guy who fucks the girl whos so drunk she cant stand up and a guy who kicks in a door in and puts a gun in a womans face and makes her take her clothes off will never be the same in my book only one of those is a "rapist""

10/20/2005 2:51:37 PM

Quote :

""a guy who fucks the girl whos so drunk she cant stand up and a guy who kicks in a door in and puts a gun in a womans face and makes her take her clothes off will never be the same in my book only one of those is a "rapist"""

I don't know, I think they are both perverted sex-hounds, so in that respect I guess they are the same.


However, one is willing to use deadly force and the other guy is just shallow, not really a criminal. A lot of this comes down to the whole "your perception is your reality". In the "rapist's" eyes who screwed the drunk chick, if they were at a party drinking, he probably just figured they were both having fun and were going to top the night off at the end with more fun back at the room...because to a guy at a party, generally when you say "lets go back to my place" you arn't wanting to go play uno all night.

Like I said, I'm not excusing the boy for what he did, but just sit back and look at what he REALLY is and stop making the victum out to be THAT much of a victum. She was a victum of his hormones. He was a victum of her mixed signals and not knowing what was her and what was the booze talking.

-Pack




PS Maybe he should take her to that Moral Court thing that always comes on after my morning class when I am doing statics.

[Edited on October 20, 2005 at 3:12 PM. Reason : amend]

10/20/2005 3:11:41 PM

Quote :

"a guy who fucks the girl whos so drunk she cant stand up and a guy who kicks in a door in and puts a gun in a womans face and makes her take her clothes off will never be the same in my book only one of those is a "rapist""

that depends on the situation (if the guy in the first situation is a rapist) and their relationship really
i mean, if my boyfriend that ive had sex with before has sex with me when im that drunk, i dont see a problem with that because i would agree to it sober. same goes for a guy that ive slept with before (on more than one occasion), as long as we're both single and we're on good terms and whatnot

basically if the girl would do it sober, i dont see the problem

i do see a problem with situations where either youre unsure if shed do it sober or you know she wouldnt
with the first case it could possibly be construed as be rape so its better not to do it
in the 2nd its much more likely, than in the other situations mentioned, that it could/would be interpreted as rape, and its definately a bad idea

however, i do think its rape if the guy purposefully gets the girl drunk enough so that shed do things (like fuck him) that she normally wouldnt in a sober, rational state

[Edited on October 20, 2005 at 3:14 PM. Reason : .]

10/20/2005 3:12:49 PM

Quote :

"however, i do think its rape if the guy purposefully gets the girl drunk enough so that shed do things (like fuck him) that she normally wouldnt in a sober, rational state"

Well she has to accept the alcohol, right? Unless you're talking about tricking her or something...

Maybe it should be illegal, but it's not at all the same as pulling out a gat and demanding sex.

10/20/2005 3:20:47 PM

i think a lot of the problem with the situation is it is made to look like if they both were drunk, went back to his place to do whatever, started messin around under her consent, then had sex all while she was drunk, then the next morn she could decide that she wouldnt have done that sober and is mad cause she had sex and can therefore bring allegations of rape against him and get away with it...not sayin that is necessarily what happened but thats just not right...now if he forced her to have sex unwillingly then he raped her and i think we can all agree that is wrong...

[Edited on October 20, 2005 at 3:34 PM. Reason : e]

10/20/2005 3:28:52 PM

I think it is wrong anyway, but what you are saying is definitely valid in that he is no so much "guilty" of a criminal offense, I don't believe, if it is just that she had some courage-juice and he had some courage-juice, and they went through with it.

-Pack

10/20/2005 3:31:05 PM

theres such a thing as coercion

10/20/2005 3:35:08 PM

Quote :

"Well she has to accept the alcohol, right? Unless you're talking about tricking her or something... "

im saying either tricking her
or waiting til she was already drunk and then feeding her shots/booze so she doesnt realize how much shes had

i see that as the same thing as putting a roofie in her drink

10/20/2005 3:35:32 PM

If he is a freshman and already knows that trick, then he deserves a medal...then a jail sentence.


But, like I've been saying, if she just got drunk, thats her beef. And I would be willing to bet that he had something, too.

-Pack

10/20/2005 3:44:36 PM

If a girl doesn't want to have sex with a guy while drunk...she shouldn't get drunk. Does it make it right if she gets raped? No. Would it avoid a lot of problems? Yes. There are lots of things people wouldn't do sober that they do drunk, it doesn't mean they're not responsible. If both parties are equally drunk then are both the victim and the perpetrator?

I am kind of surprised that this entire discussion has centered on the idea of her regretting it after the fact. It is entirely possible that it was forcible. He is innocent until proven guilty, but the situation is not impossible. I think it is hasty to accuse her of crying wolf without knowing the details.

I also agree that his name should not be published unless his guilt has been determined. These sort of charges tend to taint a person's reputation regardless of the facts.

10/20/2005 3:47:04 PM

honestly its not that hard to not fuck someone

10/20/2005 3:47:15 PM

all i am sayin is if they both got drunk through their own will and had sex consentually, then he shouldnt be punished for not making her decisions for her or for having sex with a girl who said she wanted to...if he is drunk too why should he be held accountable for her?

10/20/2005 3:48:24 PM

Quote :

" Would it avoid a lot of problems? Yes"

if people stopped thinking it was ok to have sex with a girl thats really drunk and stopped blaming the victim it would avoid more problems

at one party i had a girl pull me into my room and started making out. i was pretty trashed and had had a lot to drink, she was so drunk she couldnt sit up. She started taking clothes off and even being as drunk as i was i was able to not have sex with her. It's not that hard. the sad thing was her friends thought i raped her until the next day when she cleared it up, it was a safe assumption given how many of you all would have or would think its ok of i did.

10/20/2005 3:52:24 PM

just to clear up my opinion a lil bit....i think it is in any guys interest to not mess around with a girl if she is obviously really drunk, however i dont necessarily think he committed a criminal act if he does mess around with her assuming she is saying she wants to and so does he...

10/20/2005 3:58:28 PM

i dont give a fuck how drunk she is if she says she wants to fuck you are gay if you dont fuck her and shes not ugly

10/20/2005 4:03:14 PM

Quote :

"if he is drunk too why should he be held accountable for her?"

well clearly men can be held accountable for what we do when we are drunk, but women can NOT be held accountable.

10/20/2005 4:05:33 PM

My view on rape and alchohol is this..


If she says No or Stop...Anything after that point at least unless she verbally consents at a later time is rape.
If He uses force or threat of force then it is rape.
If she is passed out, or in a condition where she is rendered immoble then it is rape.

However,

If she can talk, but dosn't say no or stop.
If she is aware enough that she can interact and move with her surroundings.
then she is consious enough to make the decision to have sex or not have sex.

then its not rape, its a bad decision, it may be a decision influenced by alchohol, but its the same decision sombody makes when they get behind the wheel with after drinking.

10/20/2005 4:10:18 PM