Just saw the questions about the Bikilas...
I've had a pair for about 2 months and love them. I've been running in KSO's for about a year and have Classics for my "everyday shoes." The Bikilas are a more snug fit than the KSO, even in the toe beds. I was worried about this, but now my KSO's feel like they are barely holding on because I'm used to the Biks. There is some loss of ground feel but that is a good thing if you run rough terrain regularly (or a high acorn count area). I've run Umstead a few times and my neighborhood (very bad sidewalks, lots of rocks, acorns, sticks, etc) and the protection is definitely a big improvement. Where the Biks really dominate over the KSOs is wet pavement. I've nearly killed myself sliding on wet/mildewed pavement and the Biks tread keep the footing sure. The Bikilas also only strap across the top of the foot (no strap wrapping to the heel like the KSO's). I thought this was weird at first, like they would slip off but the snug glove-like fit of the Bik makes up for that and eliminates the heel rub/blister problem many have with KSOs and classics. If you run in classics/sprints I think the Biks are a big upgrade, but if you have KSOs in decent condition then I'd wear them out first.

There is a new KSO Remix (Trek bottoms and traditional non-leather uppers) coming this fall, as well as Smart Wool Classics and a few new colors:
http://birthdayshoes.com/the-new-fall-2010-vibram-five-fingers-models-and-colors

Also, check out Vibrams awesome site for the Bikilas:

http://youarethetechnology.com/

7/27/2010 11:23:05 PM

Fumbler and i both have the bikilas. i like them better than my sprints & flow high tops surges, but not better than my kso treks. i ordered the women's kso treks the day they were released and several people have asked me how i found them. you've got to jump on it early.

i run in the bikilas on the indoor track at the y, and would outside if it was 213849623 degrees. i wear the kso treks on the trail and if i want to wear them around town and not have them scream OMGLOOKATMYTOES!!!

the bikilas definitely fit differently. they're a hair more supportive and feel more like shoes. i feel like i lose a bit of the barefoot feeling in them, but i still like & wear them. i always had to wear socks if i wanted to run in my sprints w/o blisters, but i don't have to with the bikilas & kso treks (i don't run in the surges, although i've hiked in glacier nat'l park in them lol). there's definitely no getting socks inside the bikilas for me. Fumbler can. the material in the uppers is a million times nicer than the sprints and the whole thing has much higher build quality than the early versions of vffs (classic, sprint, etc). the same can be said for the kso treks.

the women's & men's kso treks have a little bit wider sole in the midfoot. i have narrow feet and it's not a problem. they are much much more grippier than any of the other styles. i have really hot feet, and i thought that since these are leather my feet would catch on fire...but actually, they're cooler than the bikilas. i don't have nearly the wet shoe problem after running/hiking/exercising in the treks.

for sizing reference (since it varies style to style & that makes it hard to order), i wear:
(all women's sizes)
sprint 39
flow high tops 39
bikila 39
kso trek 38

for comparison to other brands of shoes in women's US sizes:
keen 8.5
chaco flip flops 8
mammut backpacking boots 8.5
adidas running shoes 8.5
montrail running shoes 9

hope that's helpful

[Edited on July 28, 2010 at 12:00 AM. Reason : ]

7/27/2010 11:55:54 PM

^ When you replace your KSO Treks will you get the same ones or the new KSO Remix (Trek bottoms, traditional stretchy KSO upper)? Also, do you find the Treks smell more than the others? I definitely need a pair specifically for trail running (Biks are better than KSOs but still lacking in sloppy conditions).

for sizing reference:
classic 47
kso 46
bikila 46
most shoes 14 EE

7/28/2010 2:38:11 PM

probably not. if they made the trek sole w/ the bikila upper, i'd consider it. i don't like the mesh on the kso trek. it wouldn't keep sand/small pieces of dirt out, despite the kso part of the name. nothing will get in the bikila fabric.

i don't think the treks smell more. less probably. i sweat more in the bikilas than the treks.

7/28/2010 4:45:49 PM

New models for 2011... meh.

http://barefootjason.blogspot.com/2010/07/vibrams-2011-models-really.html

7/29/2010 2:10:55 PM

I really appreciate the tips from people with more than one kind! I have the KSO's and have thought about getting another pair for everyday wear, so it's good to get the practical comparisons.

7/29/2010 2:12:20 PM

i have not read any part of this thread but have a very simple question.

vibram 5-fingers > nike free


yes? no? case-by-case basis?

7/29/2010 2:17:18 PM

Yes. I haven't worn Nike frees out of the store but it's a completely different experience. Too shoe like.

7/29/2010 7:54:17 PM

Yeah, frees aren't even one of the better minimal shoes out there. Terra Plana EVO, some of the Innov8 trail shoes, some racing flats, and then you have Merrell making minimalist footwear with Vibram soles and the newly teased New Balance Minimus that also sports Vibram soles (http://www.crunchgear.com/2010/07/29/new-balance-minimus-teaser-shots/). Frees probably work well for cross-training/gym stuff but for running you can do MUCH better.

VFF > other minimalist shoes > Nike Free

Keep in mind VFF's are also going to be the longest and most difficult transition for the average runner. I think you need a decent amount enthusiasm to get through the initial transition without giving up.

7/30/2010 5:00:08 PM

I started off with the Sprints and once they wore out I switched to the KSOs because they did a better job keeping debris out when running on rocky/dirt terrain. I'm on my second pair of KSOs and they're starting to show signs of wear, so I may be replacing them again in the future.

I don't know which model I'll go with. I'll probably at least try the Bikila because they're supposed to be made for running. I just don't want too thick of a sole on the bottom, which is why I really like the KSO. The additional thickness might be good for hiking though. I loved watching people's reactions when I'd be on the AT with no shoes.

If I were hardcore like I was a few years ago I would just do everything barefoot. But I had to stop running for about a year and my feet softened up and I've never taken the time to recondition them.

7/31/2010 11:32:35 AM

Would the KSO Trek be viable for doing things like running around a field playing frisbee? While I know they are good for simply running, frisbee requires a lot of stops, starts and pivots and I don't want to misuse such an expensive shoe.

7/31/2010 10:05:45 PM

Probably not. I don't think the VFFs are designed to handle the lateral shear associated with such sports. I've read where lots of people have had issues with the stitching/gluing coming apart from the rubber sole. What kind of field do you play on? If it's grassy, try taking your shoes off all together. It feels awesome to run around on grass completely barefoot.

I also think the Treks are made with a leather top. I'm not sure if I would like that, or not, considering how dirty mine get. I like being able to throw my cloth/mesh KSOs into the wash every week or so, and have them come out of the spin cycle dry enough to wear. I don't know how you would clean the leather Treks.

There's a new Trek line coming out, called Sport Trek, that has the same features but it's made with a cloth top instead of the leather. Ever since I heard about these last week I've been thinking about picking up a pair to test out for hiking. I've had some slippage on some trail surfaces with the smoother KSOs, so maybe this will provide for a little more traction.

8/7/2010 10:07:30 PM

My Treks came in yesterday! I didn't get to go running yet but found a trail nearby that I am eager to try out. Thanks for the tip about the shearing effects. I wasn't sure what all they meant by the use "fitness". Also, the treks are machine washable so no worries about getting them dirty.

8/7/2010 10:17:45 PM

So apparently there's yet another new VFF that's for super-sporty folks called the Komodo. It's supposed to be more rugged and provide more traction, stability, and strength on lateral motion.



http://birthdayshoes.com/komodo

I ordered a pair of the Bikila VFFs to replace my old KSOs. They're f'in amazing!

8/12/2010 10:11:36 PM

Been running with sprints for 2.5-3 years now. Just replaced old pair last month after realizing that I'd been wearing a 44 when I should have a 43... after that long =P

8/12/2010 10:35:54 PM

OK...I've been searching for an answer to this question for a while and can't find it on their website, in this thread, or on the interweb in general...I apologize if I'm just being dense and missed something...anyways...

I completely understand and agree with the idea of barefoot running being better for you in XX ways. I understand that these shoes do a great job of simulating this as much as possible while still giving you necessary protections...but...what the fuck does having your toes in individual compartments accomplish?

I did see someone said that it helps you spread your toes out for better traction, etc...but isn't having your toes separated the COMPLETE OPPOSITE of what natural, barefoot running would be like? Honestly, if they made this shoe without the separate toe compartments it would make tons more sense to me.

I've read a million articles about why the heel strike is bad, how your protect yourself better when running with bare feet or little padding...not once have I read anything remotely scientific or even anecdotal at the least supporting any argument to have your toes separated.

8/12/2010 10:47:15 PM

Quote :

"but isn't having your toes separated the COMPLETE OPPOSITE of what natural, barefoot running would be like? "

I don't think I understand your question. If you run completely barefoot, your toes separate and spread out and do whatever they need to do to make sure you have solid traction, gripping whatever it can. Hence that's why VFFs have individual toe compartments.

The idea of the VFF is to allow your individual toes to move freely as if you were running with no shoes. If there was just one compartment, then your toes are more restricted in their movement.

8/12/2010 11:03:14 PM

So long as the shoe isn't more narrow than the breadth of your "toe span" than it wouldn't be more restricting than having nothing on.

On the other hand, with nothing on I can touch toes, cross toes, etc. etc. etc....can't do that when they are sitting in different compartments.

8/12/2010 11:16:05 PM

Most shoes have some sort of support that affects your natural gait and running stride. The VFFs primary purpose is to provide a thin layer of support to protect your feet from sharp objects, and have a minimal affect on your stride. That's why this whole "movement" is called minimalist running.

The individual toe compartments exist to maximize the range of toe motion. I can touch my toes, cross them, and virtually everything else in the VFFs.

[Edited on August 13, 2010 at 10:51 PM. Reason : .]

8/13/2010 10:50:34 PM

There was a good read on a running blog recently from a guy that wears all kinds of minimalist footwear. After a long stint in frees and flats he got a new pair of bikilas and was amazed at how the good initial calf soreness was back (something he didn't expect since he was not making a traditional to minimalist transition). It suggests that there is something about the ability for your toes to spread out and reduction in toes crunching together in the front of a shoe that further improves your footstrike and gait to its most natural position. It was sentiment echoed by a few others who noted their current fastest long "sprints" (a mile or two) were achieved with vibrams or barefoot. They were still slower in true short sprints though (they suspected because racing spikes allow for so much more force and vibrams discourage longer strides). Long story short, the separating of the toes definitely is more than just an aesthetic.

8/18/2010 1:55:07 AM

So if I'm looking to get some VFFs for the first time, for trail/everyday walking and short distance < 3 miles running, should I go with seemingly popular KSOs or save $10-15 and pick up some VFF classics?

9/15/2010 9:46:28 PM

If you're going to be doing trail running, you might opt for a model with a different material on the upper that won't attract so much dust/dirt and will be easier to wipe down and clean; if you want to get everyday use out of them, cleanliness and stinkiness becomes a big consideration.

Also be aware that the adjustment period is going to be pretty hard if you're running on a rough trail; the sole is enough to prevent cuts but you're going to feel every rock and root you cross. I would recommend starting on a smooth path until your muscles are used to it and your feet harden up a bit, then start roughening the terrain.

9/15/2010 11:19:35 PM

i finally did it!


the white spots are calluses i already had from 5fingers, flip flops, & barefootedness (new word) in the yard

[Edited on September 19, 2010 at 11:23 AM. Reason : ]

9/19/2010 11:22:26 AM

Well I went ahead and got the orange/black KSOs after a lot of searching, and they're pretty awesome so far. My big toe does touch the end and sometimes it gets kind of sensitive/uncomfortable but the size up was just too wide and my foot flopped and pronated a little bit in them whereas the ones I have fit almost my entire foot like a glove. I think my big toe tips will toughen up a bit and the shoes will break in over time.

It's not so tight that my toe stays bent, it lays flat, only pushes tight when I flex upward. Haven't tried running, but have been doing a decent amount of walking in them and will probably walk a trail or something today since it's such gorgeous weather.

9/19/2010 12:18:10 PM

I apologize if this was already posted

http://www.sportsscientists.com/2010/05/barefoot-running-and-injuries.html

9/19/2010 12:25:05 PM

My only problem so far is sometimes I like to run with my dog. And sometimes he likes to bolt out in front of me with no warning (as if we weren't running full speed side by side).

I stubbed my toe pretty badly that way; it was purple. Kind of scared to go running with the dog again.

9/19/2010 12:47:04 PM

^^of course barefoot running isnt going to be for everyone. Regular running isn't for everyone either. All I know is that since I switched to "barefoot shoes" about 3ish years ago, I can finally exercise again without fucking up my knees. I had been to the orthopedist, rheumatologist, & physical therapist, tried all the fancy knee braces, Rx insoles, etc and my knees only got worse.

They're great now. But like with almost anything else, YMMV.

9/19/2010 3:26:55 PM

Yeah i'm missing a bursa in my left knee and regular running was just excruciating after ~1.5 miles; barefoot running solved that and got me running again =P

9/19/2010 3:50:22 PM

Just getting started with barefoot/minimalist running. I have a quick question below regarding Bikilas at the bottom of my post.

MY STORY: I've been having pain issues with my hip running in Asics running shoes for the past 2 years. Basically any running for 10 mins or more would quickly come to an end due to this pain (doctor said it was related to the periformis being tight). On a whim, I recently started out barefoot running on the treadmill and at first could not run for more than 3-4 mins before blister issues forced me to stop. However, just the other day I ran totally hip-pain-free for 17 mins before the bottom of my feet started losing skin and I was forced to stop. I haven't run that long without hip pain in years.

In light of the above, I just ordered a pair of Bikila's through the mail, size 43 men's. Could not find a store anywhere where I could try some on so I'm a bit concerned about the sizing. I usually wear a size 10.5/11 in regular sizing shoe and I'm wondering if I should have ordered a 42. MY QUESTION: For those of you that have a pair of Bikila's already and are pleased with them, how tight/loose of a fit should I have when I finally try the Bikila Men's size 43's on?

11/27/2010 5:45:53 AM

I traded in my Vibrams for Inov8 f-lite 230's

love them

11/27/2010 8:00:40 AM

Well I use sprints but I ran for 1.5-2 years with 44s when I should actually wear 43s, wasn't bad at all. You can also get some socks if you really care.

11/27/2010 8:07:30 AM

^^^you want them to fit like a glove, bc if they're too loose they'll slip around and cause blisters. you can get socks, or just send them back for a smaller size. the bikilia runs a little smaller than the other pairs i have, in women's sizes at least.

11/27/2010 8:12:30 AM

cool. hopefully I'll have them by next week and they'll fit like a glove.

11/27/2010 9:44:45 AM

Tried it, destroyed my shins, went back to shoes. Whatever floats your boat, I guess.

11/27/2010 11:29:00 AM

Aww yeah. Parcel showed up in the mail today while I was at work and the Bikila Men's 43 fit like a glove. Cannot wait to jump on the treadmill tomorrow!

12/3/2010 12:08:44 AM

Quote :

"MY STORY: I've been having pain issues with my hip running in Asics running shoes for the past 2 years. Basically any running for 10 mins or more would quickly come to an end due to this pain (doctor said it was related to the periformis being tight). On a whim, I recently started out barefoot running on the treadmill and at first could not run for more than 3-4 mins before blister issues forced me to stop. However, just the other day I ran totally hip-pain-free for 17 mins before the bottom of my feet started losing skin and I was forced to stop. I haven't run that long without hip pain in years. "

I would recommend that you see a manual therapist, too. Do not see a physical therapist or a sports doctor, but someone practicing manual therapy. They are like magicians with most running related leg issues.

I was having a similar issue with my knee about a year ago and in no time I was back to about a 30 mile/week routine. Also, if you don't like asics then try mizuno



[Edited on January 6, 2011 at 7:34 PM. Reason : fg]

1/6/2011 7:29:22 PM

alrighty...my first injury which i'm pretty sure is connected to my barefootedness/VFFs. i recently switched from the YMCA (running on a rubber track indoors) to planet fitness (running on a treadmill). treadmill running is very unnatural to me & i'm having a hard time getting used to it. around feb 24th or so the ball of my foot, under my big toe, on the side closest to my arch started to hurt. the arch itself doesn't hurt at all. i waited a week, it was better (not 100%, this was probably my first mistake), and ran again. now it hurts pretty bad. i've iced it a few times & i'm trying to rest it. i haven't run or done anything impactful (new word) since then.

i looked up foot anatomy this morning & the area seems to match with the flexor hallucis longus tendon. this is typically an injury of dancers, soccer players, & runners, & is caused by repeated push-offs with the forefoot. i've never had this problem before & i think what's causing it is the amount of concentration it takes for me to run on the treadmill. i'm paying way too much attention to not falling off & my form is wayyyy not what it typically is.

the internet says rest, ice, & take pain meds so that's what i'm doing. what can i do about the treadmill? my hope was to get used to it & eventually run normally, but i'm a little skeptical if that's going to happen. it's lighter longer after work now so i could start running on the road soon. anybody had this problem before?

[Edited on March 7, 2011 at 9:05 AM. Reason : ]

3/7/2011 9:05:15 AM

I'm totally in love with the Komodosports. I used to think Joe was crazy for liking these five fingers, but he's gotten me hooked!

5/24/2011 10:28:15 PM

VFF is having a black friday sale on their website. starts at 12am EST. just got an email about it.

Quote :

"The FiveFingers Black Friday Thank You Event is limited to specified styles while supplies last. Free shipping applies to ground shipping only, within the United States and Canada"

http://www.vibramfivefingers.com

11/22/2011 4:47:43 PM

Did it give any details on the sale? My physical therapist said I am very heavy-footed when I run and I think these would help me get away from that. And I was just wanting a pair anyway. But I also don't know my size.

11/22/2011 4:50:33 PM

no the email just says "black friday thank you event" then the web address & date/time, then that text i copied before.

go to great outdoor provision or rei & try them on. GOP has a lot more styles & stock.

idk if this image will show up for everybody...


[Edited on November 22, 2011 at 4:57 PM. Reason : ]

11/22/2011 4:53:54 PM

NB minimus > all

11/22/2011 6:15:08 PM

Mine are currently relegated to being my lifting shoes as I am discouraged from running while working on my lift schedule.

11/22/2011 6:19:14 PM

I would if I had time before Friday, but I don't

11/22/2011 6:25:05 PM

bump

5/24/2012 3:30:01 PM

for those who where VFFs, i have a couple of question for you

i'm between sizes (and the treks run large), so i got two sizes...wore the smaller one (which felt fine at first) to the gym yesterday for 60 minutes on the elliptical and it ended up feeling really tight and sore on the tip of my big toes...also, it was like my big toes (and the one next to them) almost went to sleep (again, i assume because it was too tight)

the thing is, the larger size leaves a bit of room at the tips and i thought that they're TOO large...so my questions: is it okay to have some extra room at the tips or is that a bad idea? does the soreness at the tip mean i'm wearing the wrong size or will i just get over it once i'm used to them (ie. did you have that problem, too)? maybe i just have funky feet that won't work with VFFs?

commence with jokes involving my use of "the tip" quite a bit

5/24/2012 3:49:22 PM

with extra room you're more likely to have blisters, but that's not a given. from what i've noticed, they're all sized a little differently. i wear socks with ones i'm in between sizes on.

this http://www.rei.com/product/830190/injinji-lightweight-no-show-toesocks but gray

5/24/2012 3:59:35 PM

5/25/2012 5:41:27 PM

http://www.policymic.com/articles/89107/own-a-pair-of-these-you-ve-been-lied-to

Quote :

"Everyone who purchased the shoes between 2009 and the date of the settlement is now entitled to a refund of up to $94 per pair, though most claimants will received $20-$50. It's good for up to two pairs, but FiveFingers can request proof of purchase."

5/8/2014 10:05:50 PM

I figured this was about to get bumped

5/8/2014 10:06:44 PM