Not quite enough.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/22661310

I wanted to see a slightly bigger dividend cut and significantly more capital. That being said, the fact that they only had to writedown 18B is a good sign.

1/15/2008 8:43:38 AM

put in a limit order for a little over 3k in VEU

Im getting out of the US

1/15/2008 8:55:47 AM

starting the day off right; nothing like losing $100 in an hour

1/15/2008 10:44:40 AM

bought 111 shares of Citigroup(C) at 27.07.

1/15/2008 12:29:09 PM

wow, being down 3% in my 401k already just today is super fun

1/15/2008 12:35:26 PM

Personal Rate of Return from 01/01/2008 to 01/14/2008 is -4.1%

1/15/2008 1:14:38 PM

^^^^ haha, that's nothing

1/15/2008 1:41:52 PM

Quote :

"starting the day off right; nothing like losing $100 in an hour"

I was definitely down $1,000 by the time you posted that.

1/15/2008 1:52:31 PM

Ditto.

1/15/2008 1:52:49 PM

dang

1/15/2008 2:21:15 PM

This sucks, down $600.

1/15/2008 2:28:02 PM

Right now I am mostly bonds and still considering whether or not to get short tech and retail, QQQQ puts specifically.

The market is too crazy to open up a significant short position on financial, though I think there is more pain to come. Consider this on Credit Cards from the Citi conference call.

Quote :

" Mike Mayo, Deutsche Bank: Good morning. Can you talk some about the trade-off between pursuing growth and managing risk and as you pointed out, the credit card losses are up over 100 basis points in three months with unemployment only at 5% and mortgages getting worse. At the same time, short-term funding costs are higher over the last three months. So does that encourage you to pull back growth at all? ... specifically, as it relates to US credit cards, the margin was down linked quarter. Is that an area where you might want to pull back or increase pricing or neither? Cittenden: Actually all of the above is happening, Mike. So we are tightening underwriting standards as you might guess. We are evaluating the open lines of credit that exist with current customers. We are doing cross reference work between customers where we have the mortgage position and where we hold the credit card and obviously, we are off of promotional balances essentially as we go through this fourth quarter. So this is a time -- as you no doubt have read -- there was a good article in the New York Times a couple of days ago about this. This is no doubt a time where, in the credit card business, you could make some substantial missteps if you weren't careful in watching the credit because there is some natural growth in outstandings that will take place. There's a bit of a substitution effect between home-equity loans and credit card loans and we are very aware of what those trade-offs are. This falls into the second category that Vikram just talked about. There is some growth that's good growth and there is other growth, which can be dangerous if it is done without the proper kind of risk parameters around it. But I think our team is very focused on these issues right now in the card business. Obviously, we have taken a bit of a reserve increase in the card business in this quarter, but we are very focused on what the risks are around the inherent or natural growth that is going to happen in that business over the next year."

Increasing underwriting standards and increasing delinquencies are not good for consumer discretionary spending.

Here is the rest of it

http://web.servicebureau.net/conf/meta?i=1112969585&c=2343&m=was&u=/w_ccbn.xsl&date_ticker=C

I don't have a transcript on it but those interested should note Meridith's questions at around the 1 hour 18 minute mark. Of course, she was one of the first to call a Citi dividend cut and she got it pretty much on the nose.


[Edited on January 15, 2008 at 2:42 PM. Reason : .]

1/15/2008 2:40:47 PM

Anyone know much about rollover from a 401k post tax account into another retirement option?

seems relatively painless and simple, with low fees or tax implications to do this, seems you can do a certain percentage up to 3 times a year.....

and if so, it seems beneficial to do so into a roth with the following sqeunce:

1.) contribute to your 401k, etc etc
2.) January of the year, roll out enough from the post tax account (the roth max or whatever your company does) to fund your roth for the entire year.
3.) have your 401k withholding adjusted to match the amount that you would have done if you did monthly contributions to your roth in addition to the 401k.

do the same next year, and the year after etc..

it'd allow the full 12 months exposure for a max roth contribution, while never really changing your investment path, or monthly budgeting... just diverting a little.

I know I month to month fund the roth, and dont save up $4k+ to push every january, and this would be a means of doing so without ever not having funds in some sort of investment option.

i dunno, just a thought..

tear it down if you'd like.

as i said, i just started reading into it and havent ran any types of fee/tax numbers yet, and am a noob.

[Edited on January 15, 2008 at 4:05 PM. Reason : e]

[Edited on January 15, 2008 at 4:11 PM. Reason : unless of course you're maxing your pretax 401k amoutn already]

1/15/2008 4:04:38 PM

I didn't think you could move money from your 401K if you were still working for that employer.

1/15/2008 4:36:34 PM

ML doesn't seem to have a problem with that.

1/15/2008 4:53:15 PM

So, you can just take money out any time you want?

Your 401k withdrawal options are as follows if you are under 59 ½



-Take a lump sum distribution, in which case your 401k plan provider will write you a check for the value of your account less a 20% withholding tax mandated by the IRS, and a 10% withdrawal penalty. The 20% tax that is withheld, but NOT the 10% penalty, will be counted against your income tax payable or will be counted towards any refund due for the tax year when you file your tax return. Some 401k penalty free withdrawal exceptions are here.

-You can do nothing and leave it with your previous employer as long as the amount is greater than $5,000. Amounts less than $5,000 will usually be distributed to you, less a 20% withholding tax, regardless of you age. (Check with your plan sponsor)

-Do 401k rollover into an IRA or a solo 401k (if you are planning to open your own one person business)

[Edited on January 15, 2008 at 4:55 PM. Reason : ]

1/15/2008 4:54:48 PM

Quote :

"An employee may avoid the 20% withholding by having the distribution processed as a direct rollover to an eligible retirement plan."

?

[Edited on January 15, 2008 at 5:06 PM. Reason : e]

[Edited on January 15, 2008 at 5:07 PM. Reason : remember, i dont know what i'm talking about, just trying to learn options here]

1/15/2008 5:06:08 PM

I still don't think you can do that entire after you quite your job.

I'm still not quite sure what the benefit is of what you described in your post.

1/15/2008 5:10:54 PM

going to be an even worse bloodbath tomorrow

1/15/2008 5:20:41 PM

this shit is getting depressing

1/15/2008 5:54:55 PM

this sounds like an awesome time to stack up on some intc

1/15/2008 5:55:49 PM

^
You guys are an optimistic bunch I'll give you that.

I should have opened that QQQQ short position.

1/15/2008 10:07:48 PM

to be honest with you...these are the times people get rich...while everyone runs for the hills, you should just load up on the quality companies

1/15/2008 10:11:15 PM

glad i didn't buy cc and etfc yesterday hehehe

1/15/2008 11:07:56 PM

if there's blood in the streets, jump in

1/15/2008 11:11:50 PM

Quote :

"hile everyone runs for the hills, you should just load up on the quality companies"

That really depends on where you are in the cycle and how big of a sell of you are looking at.

For example, if you had gone all in on the Dow as the it was cresting 2000 you'd be up about 20% nominally over 8 years right now. That's a little over a 2% nominal return, which depending on your measure of inflation may not even keep. Certainly the CPI has been running higher that.

You would have done better buying TIPS, which is probably the safest thing you can put your money into.

For a historical perspective -
The guys who bought at the bottom on Black Monday made a killing. The guys who bought at the bottom on Black Thursday were still down a decade later and my guess is underperformed bonds until the late 50s.


Although to be clear we haven't experienced anything like those two events. We are not even down that much for an oncoming recession.

[Edited on January 16, 2008 at 9:16 AM. Reason : .]

1/16/2008 9:15:19 AM

^^^

me too, i'm gonna wait for a bit.

1/16/2008 10:33:45 AM

Should have sold my GOOG awhile ago.

1/16/2008 11:18:14 AM

I'm tempted to buy some more. Either that or rimm.

1/16/2008 12:15:12 PM

Sure am glad I sold most of my junk back in oct/nov. I do own AAPL right now, and some CSCO, but its all either ROTH Gains(not principle) or ESPP, which was bought no higher than 23 bucks and change.

Im sorta pulling for another 300-500 point dip in the Dow, as I really want to put some cash into the devalued tech stocks. Once this thing finally does turn around, maybe toward the end of the year, we could see another 60% jump in many of the techs that have been pounded lately. At that point, the more volitile stocks the better, as they would have been hit harder during this decline (such as aapl, goog, vmw, and in many ways, even cisco ... down to almost 25/share- thats is crazy).

1/16/2008 12:49:16 PM

Making a turn mid-day...?

1/16/2008 12:50:33 PM

nvm

[Edited on January 16, 2008 at 12:55 PM. Reason : i'm an idiot]

1/16/2008 12:55:08 PM

David, every 401k plan is different.

Many have the option to take in-service withdrawals.

IBM as a plan restricts you to the 59.5, disabled, etc


I can't comment on strategy, but tax diversification is never a bad thing. If you can get money in a Roth now, it can't backfire too badly assuming taxes aren't overhauled completely

1/16/2008 10:26:31 PM

I still don't understand the purpose of what he's trying to do.

1/16/2008 10:34:28 PM

WHY IS EVERYONE SO DOWN, the only thing that should be down is the market, not your trading.
This recession should make you $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$


THE STOCK MARKET IS DOING SO WELL, TELL ME YOU PEOPLE ARE MAKING MONEY ON THIS VOLATILITY AND TRADING EVERY DAY.

LOOK AT BIDU, IT IS MAKING ME SO MUCH MONEY, 24 POINTS TODAY, 14 THE DAY BEFORE, IM LOVING IT GOOD LUCK TO ALL, PRACTICE YOUR TRADING, TRADE WELL, ACHIEVE CHOICE

[Edited on January 17, 2008 at 5:03 AM. Reason : recession?]

1/17/2008 4:58:14 AM

^i agree

i was always told the way you make money is buying things low and selling them high

well its getting pretty low out there

1/17/2008 5:25:15 AM

^^haha

the good part about this bear market (i'm in recession denial) is that it will weed out a lot of the crappy businesses (i'm talking to you chrysler, citi, countrywide, etc) and redirect capital to more profitable enterprises and will provide recent graduates the opportunity to make names for themselves when the market turns around

1/17/2008 6:57:44 AM

I'm dying over here.

1/17/2008 1:24:07 PM

i'm...ummm...doing better than the market.


thinking about buying Cemex (CX). at 7.9 PE, how much lower can it really go?

1/17/2008 1:34:24 PM

I'm trying to pick what fund I want for my first IRA, but I'm stuck. I've looked through literally about 5,000 funds and narrowed it down to a dozen or so, but I just don't know how to pick. The ones I've got it narrowed down to all have low expense ratios, the amount of international exposure I'm looking for and stable managers. But that's where I stop knowing what's good.

I have a few funds from Janus in the list, a few from Fidelity, and two or three from other places. Some of them have primary holdings in really big companies I'm familiar with (Apple, etc.) which makes me feel feel a little more knowledgeable about where my money is going, but not necessarily better about the funds. The others are mostly companies I've never heard of.

One of them is AOVIX, which holds several different mutual funds, which seems like it might be a good option for me until I know more about more specific funds. Another is a fund that invests in green companies, which I am a little more personally attached to because I like green companies, but I realize I shouldn't put my money there just because I like them. But, just based on personal observations, it seems like they have some growth to do.

I feel like I am just splitting hairs at this point and it's not that big of a deal which one I finally pick, but I don't want to just roll a die either.

Any ideas on what I should do?

1/17/2008 1:52:54 PM

well, most people own a good deal of an S&P 500 index. That's probably where I'd start.

1/17/2008 1:56:40 PM

^^While i cant suggest what you do, Janus was in the news within the past month or 2 for something kinda important...maybe me posting this will jog the memory of someone that normally posts in this thread and they can tell you about it....just thought i'd post that since its one of your choices

john huggard of BUS 225 was all about the s&p 500 so i'd go with what duke said

[Edited on January 17, 2008 at 2:02 PM. Reason : s/p 500]

1/17/2008 2:00:36 PM

unless something has recently changed, Janus does not have a good rep.

I think they were revamping how they do a lot of things recently, but I really don't keep up with them much.

1/17/2008 2:08:59 PM

ANOTHER 17 DOWN FOR BIDU, IM THINKING ABOUT TAKING MY 240% GAIN AND RUNNING WITH IT...BUT I KNOW IT HAS ANOTHER 40 PTS TO DROP..this is the hard part...

[Edited on January 17, 2008 at 2:11 PM. Reason : as soon as i posted, it fell another 5 pts...]

1/17/2008 2:10:36 PM

^^ I didn't know that. Good to know even if I can't really see why. All the ones in my list have been pretty stable and have had good or really good returns in the last few years. I'll look into figuring that out.

1/17/2008 2:12:49 PM

OK I'M OUT, WHAT A GREAT TRADE. WHEN BIDU WAS DOWN 19 PTS, I GOT OUT.

Trade Well, Achieve Choice

1/17/2008 2:15:33 PM

bought 31 shares of Cemex at $22.60/share.

I now have $3.89 available for trading.


otherwise, i would've bought about 50+ shares.

1/17/2008 2:17:27 PM

down 7.5% on the year with today being another downer, its so hard not to want to just stick all of my money into our stable value which is up .4% on the year when every other option is straight negative for the year

1/17/2008 2:21:29 PM

Nice, another good drop today ...

Gotta start transferring all my cashes into scottrade ... its about to be BUY BUY BUY time

1/17/2008 2:23:28 PM

dude

i was up 26% in august (over roughly a 12 month span)

I'm up 3% since acct inception right now (excluding all the stuff I sold for ~25%+ gain in the spring and summer).

1/17/2008 2:24:10 PM