yep

6/23/2015 8:10:17 AM

Parts of the north were not only not practicing slavery, but they also:

-werent returning fugitive slaves to the south
-allowing blacks to vote (against slavery)
-antagonizing efforts to expand slavery
-disallowing whites travelling north to do so with slaves

The south felt that the northern statea should not have the states' rights to do this, which was a large contributing factor to secession.


Lincoln was just trying to hold the country together. He would have set all slaves free, or enslaved all blacks if it meant holding the country together. He was not an abolitionist himself. However, freeing the slaves was more of an economic weapon against his enemy at the time.

6/23/2015 8:19:06 AM

The new [Confederate] Constitution has put at rest forever all the agitating questions relating to our peculiar institutions—African slavery as it exists among us—the proper status of the negro in our form of civilization. This was the immediate cause of the late rupture and present revolution - Alexander Stephens, Vice President of the CSA

You think slavery is right and should be extended; while we think slavery is wrong and ought to be restricted. That I suppose is the rub. It certainly is the only substantial difference between us - Lincoln

[T]here are two apparent rudiments to this war. One is Slavery and the other is State Rights. But the latter is only a cover for the former. If Slavery were out of the way there would be no trouble from State Rights.
The war, then, is for Slavery, and nothing else. It is an insane attempt to vindicate by arms the lordship which had been already asserted in debate. With mad-cap audacity it seeks to install this Barbarism as the truest Civilization. Slavery is declared to be the "corner-stone" of the new edifice. - Sen. Sumner

6/23/2015 8:24:28 AM

Quote :

"govts should not construct monuments in the first place. it's all just propaganda aimed at causing the subjects to take pride in something that isn't worth being proud of. want a monument? build it on private land with private funds."

I read this and Ron Swanson's voice popped into my head

6/23/2015 8:26:17 AM

Quote :

"govts should not construct monuments in the first place. it's all just propaganda aimed at causing the subjects to take pride in something that isn't worth being proud of. want a monument? build it on private land with private funds. "

I disagree with this. It's an attractive thought though, because it makes you think if we lived in this world, there would be no conflict, but we'd just find something else to argue about. It is a requirement of being a conscious being that you occasionally have to fight for what you believe in, and our society would not thrive without principles that we stand for. The trick is making sure the people with degenerate beliefs aren't more successful in fighting for their principles, and unfortunately, this has happened in history.

We need the government investing in art too (because one day, machines will be doing all the technical work...) because this also gives tourists something easy to look at to see what we're about. Could you imagine traveling to Japan or China and not seeing funny looking buildings or dragon festivals? Their governments invest in those things to help define their own cultures, and we should do the same thing, I think.

6/23/2015 10:00:40 AM

Fun fact: Ben Watson's brother Asa played TE for State and is now on a pit crew with a NASCAR team.

6/23/2015 10:01:05 AM

Great, I've been to like 10 Nascar races in the last 3 years. yay

Did you know NASCAR pit crew guys bank well over 100k a year?

6/23/2015 10:04:39 AM

The reason the govt shouldn't build memorials has nothing to do with avoiding conflict. I agree that folks are going to bitch, moan, whine, and disagree about something, no matter what. This is purely a funding issue.

[Edited on June 23, 2015 at 10:11 AM. Reason : the govt should not "believe in" anything.]

6/23/2015 10:07:41 AM

So the government should let those with $$ make the decisions on what is memorialized in this country???? Do you not see how thats a problem?

6/23/2015 10:09:40 AM

I'm not sure how that isn't already the case. I don't give a fuck what is memorialized on private land with private funds.

6/23/2015 10:13:37 AM

I think it is in the country's interest, to remain competitive, to fund arts based projects. These are very cheap to do, and can be useful. I say this having visited poorer countries without these types of works, and they're just really depressing sad places to visit (not that a poor country should prioritize art over needs-- just what a society devoid of arts looks like).

6/23/2015 10:20:24 AM

It is not the govt's job to keep people from being depressed.

6/23/2015 10:26:40 AM

Quote :

"The Cornerstone Speech, also known as the Cornerstone Address, was an oration delivered by Confederate Vice President Alexander Stephens at the Athenaeum in Savannah, Georgia, on March 21, 1861. Delivered extemporaneously a few weeks before the Confederacy would start the American Civil War by firing on the U.S. Army at Fort Sumter, Stephens' speech explained what the fundamental differences were between the constitutions of the Confederacy and that of the United States, enumerated contrasts between U.S. and Confederate ideologies and beliefs, laid out the Confederacy's causes for starting the American Civil War, and defended slavery."

Quote :

"Our new Government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition."

But sure MaximaDrvr, the civil war didn't happen because of slavery.

6/23/2015 10:53:13 AM

Quote :

"South Carolina Refuses To Remove Confederate Flag From Capitol Trailer"

Quote :

"COLUMBIA, SC—Shooing away protesters from the brown, debris-covered lawn, state lawmakers reportedly refused Monday to remove the Confederate flag from South Carolina’s Capitol Trailer. “Go on, git!” said shirtless South Carolina state representative Jeff Duncan, who sources confirmed tossed an empty 40-ounce bottle of Colt 45 at a group of demonstrators while reclining in a battered, dirt-caked plastic kiddie pool. “Y’all quit messing with our capitol trailer. You ain’t never gonna see this flag come down, you hear? Now, get on outta here unless you wanna get real well acquainted with my shotgun.” At press time, a two-thirds majority of South Carolina state legislators had reportedly passed out amongst the rusted washing machine and a sink on the grass in front of the state’s double-wide trailer."

http://www.theonion.com/article/south-carolina-refuses-remove-confederate-flag-cap-50725

6/23/2015 11:50:01 AM

Quote :

"Georgia Adds Swastika, Middle Finger To State Flag"

6/23/2015 12:01:00 PM

Quote :

"COLUMBIA, S.C. — The South Carolina General Assembly is expected to consider on Tuesday whether to amend its agenda to allow lawmakers to consider Gov. Nikki R. Haley’s suggestion that the state remove the divisive Confederate battle flag from the State House grounds in the aftermath of the Charleston church massacre. Speaking at a news conference on Monday surrounded by Democrats and Republicans, Ms. Haley said it was time for the state to take another look at the flag in the wake of the shooting deaths last week of nine African-Americans, all members of Emanuel A.M.E. Church. The authorities have arrested a 21-year-old suspect, Dylann Roof, charging him with nine counts of murder and one count of criminal possession of a firearm. Photographs of Mr. Roof, a white South Carolina resident, that show him posing with the flag have emerged, prompting renewed efforts to remove it from the State House grounds. Ms. Haley and other lawmakers on Monday said they wanted to see the flag come down as a gesture of unity, but persuading lawmakers to do so could be tricky. The first challenge is that the legislature is meeting in a special session by virtue of a “sine die” resolution that allows them to take up only specific issues. They can amend that resolution to debate the flag issue, but passing the amendment would require a two-thirds vote in each house. Beyond that, there is some disagreement as to what the threshold should be for repealing the law that allows the flag to fly in front of the State House. As part of a compromise in 2000, which removed the flag from atop the Capitol dome, the legislature at the time ordered that any change require a two-thirds vote in each chamber. But this week, some lawmakers said that it was not within the legislature’s power to set such a threshold — and that it might only take a majority in each house to change the law. Ms. Haley has said that she would call the legislature into another special session if the matter was not taken up this time, but that effort could come in for a legal challenge. Yet the mere possibility that a two-thirds majority may be needed to remove the flag makes the initial vote significant, providing a hint of the support for Ms. Haley’s plan. While liberals and African-Americans have long lobbied for the removal of the flag from the Capitol grounds, a number of Republicans say that the symbol is an important way to honor their ancestors. They also tend to reject the argument that it is a symbol of hate, even though the flag was first hoisted above the State House in 1962, largely as a rebuke to those who were, at the time, pushing to expand the civil rights of black people. But the shock of last week’s shooting has prompted the turnabout from Ms. Haley and some other Republicans. Republicans enjoy a majority in both houses of the South Carolina legislature. But the state party is famously quarrelsome, and it is not clear if Ms. Haley and her allies will prevail. Dwight C. James Sr., the executive director of the South Carolina conference of the N.A.A.C.P., said it was unclear whether the votes in the legislature were there. For those who vote no on the effort to amend the resolution, Mr. James said, “We’ll definitely be having conversations with their constituents.” “There are hard-liners who don’t want to change for sure,” he said. Questions about the proper place for the battle flag have long been a source of passionate debate in South Carolina, where an attack on federal troops at Fort Sumter in 1861 was seen as the beginning of the Civil War. Outside the Capitol on Monday night, some honked in support of Ms. Haley’s decision, while others criticized it. Daniel Bledsoe, a construction worker, said the idea was “kind of like treasonry.” “I’m proud of my history,” Mr. Bledsoe, 22, said. “All of my ancestors fought. Soldiers built this country. Slaves fought with us. Everybody fought. Everybody lost, and everybody is proud.”"

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/24/us/south-carolina-nikki-haley-confederate-flag.html

6/23/2015 12:20:01 PM

Quote :

"Slaves fought with us."

Oh, then its cool, right

6/23/2015 12:26:00 PM

In other news Stockholm Syndrome is real.

Quote :

"“I’m proud of my history,” Mr. Bledsoe, 22, said. “All of my ancestors fought. Soldiers built this country. Slaves fought with us. Everybody fought. Everybody lost, and everybody is proud.”"

I can assure you black people aren't proud of the south.

[Edited on June 23, 2015 at 12:30 PM. Reason : ,]

6/23/2015 12:29:29 PM

Quote :

"My last cab ride to BWI involved listening to the cab driver babble on for 30 minutes about how he was from Libya and was an Arab and not black, and how the blacks have ruined Baltimore. "

Truth

[Edited on June 23, 2015 at 2:03 PM. Reason : a]

6/23/2015 2:02:50 PM

What else have "the blacks" ruined HUR?

6/23/2015 2:04:22 PM

Quote :

"Slaves fought with us."

...as if they had a choice. LOL

6/23/2015 2:32:04 PM

Quote :

"McCrory wants to stop issuing NC license plates with Confederate flags — Gov. Pat McCrory plans to ask for a change in state law that would allow the Division of Motor Vehicles to stop issuing North Carolina specialty license plates with the Confederate flag on them. Read more at http://www.wral.com/#PILbdq0px3tKEiZh.99"

6/23/2015 3:28:25 PM

Amazon has said they will stop selling confederate flag merch.

6/23/2015 3:30:50 PM

I've never seen someone with one......must be pretty rare.

6/23/2015 3:31:11 PM

I've seen several. I think they are sponsored by sons of the confederacy maybe.

6/23/2015 3:39:05 PM

http://pulse.ncpolicywatch.org/2015/06/23/what-about-those-sons-of-confederate-veterans-license-plates/

6/23/2015 3:53:18 PM

what about the memorial downtown that's dedicated "to our confederate dead"?

#TheSouthWillNotRiseAgain?

6/23/2015 4:18:04 PM

Tear that shit down. We don't celebrate losing in this country.

6/23/2015 4:21:11 PM

I don't own any Confederate merchandise, but I'm surprised everybody's so ready to get rid of it.

During the Civil War, my ancestors fought hard to enlist on both sides and immediately desert with their provisions. And the federal government will be reimbursed for those canteens and rifles over my dead body!

Also, in addition to the Confederate flag, I think we ought to have a flag for Loyalists. Cause my people "fought" for the British, as well. We never got a bill for stolen muskets cause the Tories are cool as fuck.

6/23/2015 4:21:27 PM

During the civil war my ancestors were private property working in a field.

6/23/2015 4:24:18 PM

Quote :

"Amazon has said they will stop selling confederate flag merch."

Walmart is more progressive than Amazon, even though they're basically the same company, just one is brick and mortar and the other is online.

6/23/2015 4:25:18 PM

Perhaps if we remove all confederate flags and tear down the confederate statues racism will go away and we can all live in harmony everywhere in this country

6/23/2015 4:31:40 PM

Nobody is claiming that it will stop racism. That's a stupid comment.

6/23/2015 4:34:30 PM

aww....somebody's butt hurt over the removal of anti-American symbolism on state property.

sorry for your loss

[Edited on June 23, 2015 at 4:35 PM. Reason : ]

6/23/2015 4:35:02 PM

Quote :

"Perhaps if we remove all confederate flags and tear down the confederate statues racism will go away and we can all live in harmony everywhere in this country"

You're doing it all wrong doofus.

The idea with strawman arguments is they need to be *remotely* believable, not the utter stupidity you keep posting.

6/23/2015 4:36:51 PM

wonder how some of the dudes from the first few pages of this thread feel currently?

6/23/2015 4:38:56 PM

If we kill HUR its one more step towards ending racism and stupidity

6/23/2015 4:40:40 PM

[Edited on June 23, 2015 at 5:37 PM. Reason : Fail]

6/23/2015 5:15:16 PM

Quote :

"We don't celebrate losing in this country."

Well, there goes the Vietnam War memorial.

6/23/2015 6:02:49 PM

My brother has an SCV license plate. He signed me up for SCV too but I never did anything with it and my membership lapsed after a year. Whatever. I like going to the battlefields and think it's cool to learn about (my favorite part is the naval developments from the USN/CSN like ironclads and submarines) but I don't give a rip about actually flying a Confederate flag. Don't think banning this shit will help anything but it really doesn't effect me either way.

6/23/2015 6:14:32 PM

^^Wrong that memorial pays respect to heroes that fought for American ideals. The government erected garbage in SC does not.

6/23/2015 6:18:24 PM

it doesn't bother me, it shouldn't bother anybody!

6/23/2015 8:14:57 PM

Quote :

"govts should not construct monuments in the first place. it's all just propaganda aimed at causing the subjects to take pride in something that isn't worth being proud of. want a monument? build it on private land with private funds."

The government has to at least pretend to respect the sacrifices made by soldiers. Of course, we know that the government (and the vast majority of people, really) don't actually give a damn. Visit a VA hospital and you'll find that out real quick. War is a racket, a game played by psychopathic old men...a game that yields untold riches.

The civil war is a shameful legacy, as is slavery. Somewhere around 700,000 people died, and this was at a time when the population of the U.S. was much lower. No other country shed as much blood to end slavery.

6/23/2015 8:51:54 PM

Quote :

"^^Wrong that memorial pays respect to heroes that fought for American ideals. The government erected garbage in SC does not. "

It pays respect to the soldiers who were drafted to fight a pointless war for the wrong reasons and mainly for the benefits of the economic well being of the elite.

Just like most people who fought in the Civil War.

[Edited on June 23, 2015 at 9:02 PM. Reason : ]

6/23/2015 9:01:52 PM

Heritage, not hate.

6/23/2015 9:39:52 PM

Quote :

"Heritage, not hate."

6/23/2015 9:44:37 PM

He's about to murder some potted flowers

6/23/2015 9:46:53 PM

6/23/2015 9:47:55 PM

The KKK has those same words all over their site. You're in good company natureboy

[Edited on June 23, 2015 at 9:55 PM. Reason : http://kkk.bz/]

6/23/2015 9:55:03 PM

Maybe they should change it to something like this to get with the times

6/23/2015 10:04:00 PM