page 7

8/19/2012 1:00:54 PM

Quote :

"Did other presidents release this? I'm not saying it settles it, it's just relevant."

in recent times, yes.... the transcripts for recent presidents and candidates have been made available.

the transcripts of Bush, Gore and McCain were all readily available. (although, i believe Bush's may have been released without his consent)

i'm surprised you don't remember the hell people gave Bush for his poor grades.

Obama has been asked for his, but won't release them.... why not? it would shut up the birthers if he showed them that he wasn't receiving any special aid or consideration as a foreign student. it would shut up that Allyn Root guy who claims he knew everyone in his class at Columbia and Obama wasn't one of them. and, it would shut up those who claim that Obama was only on Harvard's law review due to their law school policy of minority inclusion.

just like Romney's taxes, it's no big deal,right? so, show 'em.

8/19/2012 1:05:48 PM

^i agree with this post 100%.

it's just as easy to accuse obama of hiding something as it is romney.

8/19/2012 1:18:55 PM

8/19/2012 1:31:29 PM

Quote :

"i'm surprised you don't remember the hell people gave Bush for his poor grades."

I remember this, but i don't remember where the information came from, or even if it was credible. Plus, IMO an F shouldn't disqualify someone from president. I have a hard time seeing how something written on a transcript could become political ad fodder, although I agree with you that it is good for transparency.

Quote :

" it would shut up the birthers if he showed them that he wasn't receiving any special aid or consideration as a foreign student."

Not his transcript, would it? Does it even say if you are out of state?

Quote :

"and, it would shut up those who claim that Obama was only on Harvard's law review due to their law school policy of minority inclusion."

...maybe if he had straight As in amazing courses.

IMO, he should release his records from any university he attended due to the simple fact that his background is more heavily academic than the rest of people in Capitol Hill. I mean, that's his resume in large part.

I know other people have tried attacking him based on Michelle's thesis. The rumor I heard is that it disappeared completely when he went to national prominence, but it was all about race relations and being black at Harvard or something like that. In other words, stuff that would be fairly alienating to a large part of the white, uneducated, nation.

It's an interesting issue. Thesis and dissertations are becoming ever-more public. Most of us won't be particularly worried because we're technical. Nothing about that could be damaging unless you fabricated data. People who run for office get advanced degrees in the humanities. Most every year, a higher fraction of people are getting higher education degrees, so combined with the fact these are becoming more public documents, it will be a ever-more common issue.

Obama did publish books about his past, and I never read them, so a I feel like somewhat of a hypocrite. I did get the feeling that we should know more about how he established himself as a law professor or whatever he was.

8/19/2012 1:58:28 PM

Quote :

"it would shut up the birthers if he showed them that he wasn't receiving any special aid or consideration as a foreign student... and, it would shut up those who claim that Obama was only on Harvard's law review due to their law school policy of minority inclusion. "

Nothing will ever shut up the birthers.

And there's nothing wrong with Obama getting a level field from affirmative action, if that's what happened (not much different that Romney getting his foot into doors because of who his parents were).

IF you're interested in seeing the transcripts to prove Obama was/wasn't born in the US, you're an idiot and a nutjob.

If you just want to make fun of his bad grades then you're just playing politics.

It's different than Romney's tax returns, because Romney, like most wealthy people, is most likely taking advantages of tax loopholes to shirk taxes that he should be paying. A loophole is an unintended facet of a law, so while what he is doing may be legal, that doesn't make it ethical. For someone who says he believes in investing in america, he should be putting his money where his mouth is.

[Edited on August 19, 2012 at 2:38 PM. Reason : ]

8/19/2012 2:23:24 PM

^nothing will shut up the birthers because Obama's birth certificate is fraudulent

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/jul/18/nation/la-na-nn-arpaio-obama-birth-certificate-fraudulent-20120718

and then there's other little gems like this...



http://www.infowars.com/evidence-obama-born-in-kenya-goes-beyond-1991-brochure/

[Edited on August 20, 2012 at 11:40 AM. Reason : /]

8/20/2012 11:40:17 AM

lets not forget what a stellar academic biden is.

8/20/2012 11:55:28 AM

Why do I care about anyone's taxes? I'm more interested in how they'll run my country

8/20/2012 12:19:09 PM

^how dare you suggest an evil republican keep his private affairs private.

8/20/2012 12:21:09 PM

How dare you suggest that a politician prove he's not a complete and total hypocrite!

8/20/2012 1:27:02 PM

^uh, no one needs to see any politician's tax returns to know that they're a total hypocrite.

8/20/2012 1:28:41 PM

very true. but it'll help to understand the extent of their hypocrisy.

8/20/2012 1:33:49 PM

oh god, more birther shit. from infowars.

prep-e is even dumber than I thought.

8/20/2012 1:36:36 PM

what hypocrisy would be revealed by romney's tax returns?

8/20/2012 1:45:06 PM

@Bobby: What do you think of the fact Obama lied about being born in Kenya to use government services, get government grants, and gain public recognition?






v---I, for one, would be shocked to see a politician punished for lying on purpose.

[Edited on August 20, 2012 at 1:52 PM. Reason : .]

8/20/2012 1:46:39 PM

I, for one, would be shocked to find out a that a future politician lied to help his own cause

8/20/2012 1:48:53 PM

@everyone: Can someone please explain how the government doesn't have access to the government's own tax files?

Can someone please explain to me that if the returns were fraudulent, then why isn't he being investigated by the IRS?

If the IRS hasn't looked at them yet, don't you think a simple call from the president asking for them to review them would be sufficient enough for them to tell him whether his tax returns are golden or not?

8/20/2012 1:51:17 PM

8/20/2012 1:58:57 PM

8/20/2012 5:42:24 PM

Uh. Ok.

8/20/2012 6:27:20 PM

^^^ ouch

8/20/2012 7:01:00 PM

Quote :

"in recent times, yes.... the transcripts for recent presidents and candidates have been made available. the transcripts of Bush, Gore and McCain were all readily available. (although, i believe Bush's may have been released without his consent) i'm surprised you don't remember the hell people gave Bush for his poor grades. Obama has been asked for his, but won't release them.... why not? it would shut up the birthers if he showed them that he wasn't receiving any special aid or consideration as a foreign student. it would shut up that Allyn Root guy who claims he knew everyone in his class at Columbia and Obama wasn't one of them. and, it would shut up those who claim that Obama was only on Harvard's law review due to their law school policy of minority inclusion. just like Romney's taxes, it's no big deal,right? so, show 'em."

President Obama has released 12 years of tax returns. As soon as Romney does the same, we can then talk about both of them releasing their college transcripts.

So far the score stands as Obama 12, Romney less than 1.

8/20/2012 7:26:22 PM

^that's not a fair comparison, and you know it. people are much more interested in obama's transcripts than his tax returns.

they would be 'even' if romney showed his transcripts...no one is suspicious of those.

neither candidate is showing what the public wants to see.

[Edited on August 20, 2012 at 7:54 PM. Reason : .]

8/20/2012 7:51:29 PM

Quote :

"that's not a fair comparison, and you know it. people are much more interested in obama's transcripts, not his tax returns."

maybe because Obama actually released his tax returns?

I don't really hear anyone who isn't a birther wanting to see his college transcripts.

8/20/2012 7:53:43 PM

i'm not a birther. i want to see obama's transcripts.

there you go.

8/20/2012 7:55:24 PM

I don't give a fuck about tax returns.
Here is what matters and what the candidates need to spend their time talking about:
-The debt -cut spending and start paying that shit down
-The economy
-Jobs - private sector, not gov't
-The war in AFG
-The potential wars with Syria, Iran, and China.
-Energy policy - We have energy of our own, lets use it.
-getting rid of Obamacare
-Social Security - stop robbing it and reform it

Distractors, things that are not issues and are low priority
abortion, Row vs Wade will stand
the end of Medicare, it aint gong anywhere
Gays - I dont care who you fuck or want to marry
what politician made some stoopid gaff. They are all idiots

8/20/2012 8:44:53 PM

^gtfo of this thread. You just listed all the shit I educated your ass on in this very thread and your response was TL;DR.

You don't actually want to discuss issues, you just want to regurgitate partisan hack rhetoric and sound bytes.

Here's a fucking mind blower for you. Obamacare WAS a conservative, straightforward plan to reform our fucked up privatized healthcare mess. The public option would have spurred competition in a way that kept HMOs in check through market forces rather than oppressive regulation. Guess who didn't want a true open market for healthcare? Our oligarchal republican party.

Rather than endorsing open markets, fair competition, equal opportunity to healthcare access and a highly restrictive public health option, they stonewalled to keep the state and regional health monopolies intact, and to shift the burden of the plan from businesses competition to consumer and small business mandates.


----------------

STFU ABOUT THE BIRTHER AND TAX RECORD BULLSHIT. If either of these issues had merit, we would not have Barack Obama as our president. You have to be mentally incompetent to believe a foreign national would clear CIA and FBI checks to become the leader of the free world and commander of the most powerful military on the planet based on a forged birth certificate. You aren't smarter than the CIA, you don't have some secret information cache that gives you a unique insight. You are a conspiracy nut job just wishing you had some excitement and weren't living a dull and meaningless life.

The same shit for Romney. Everybody knows you don't fuck with the IRS. If Romney is cheating on his taxes, he will get caught and he will rot in federal prison like the rest of them. He, like every other ultra rich person in this country just has good accountants who are paid to maximize his money and likely do a damn good job of it.

If anything, vilify the accountants for being sleazy. Being elitist and out of touch isn't illegal, its just irritating.

8/20/2012 9:20:30 PM

Quote :

" Obamacare WAS a conservative, straightforward plan to reform our fucked up privatized healthcare mess. The public option would have spurred competition in a way that kept HMOs in check through market forces rather than oppressive regulation. Guess who didn't want a true open market for healthcare? Our oligarchal republican party. Rather than endorsing open markets, fair competition, equal opportunity to healthcare access and a highly restrictive public health option, they stonewalled to keep the state and regional health monopolies intact, and to shift the burden of the plan from businesses competition to consumer and small business mandates."

This is exactly my view. The Obamacare bill was a betrayal of the liberal principles I liked, just like the Bush administration's budget was a betrayal of the conservative principles I like.

I admit to sometimes getting caught up with the party that is committing the more egregious abuses of power than the other. But really, they can both go to hell. Congress has its approval rating because it won't do the things that are popular and responsible. It's a McCongress and they don't represent us. The lack of election runoffs and the electoral college are what prevent competitors to this duopoly. I don't consider our government to have the mandate of the people anymore.

[Edited on August 20, 2012 at 9:31 PM. Reason : ]

[Edited on August 20, 2012 at 9:32 PM. Reason : ]

8/20/2012 9:30:48 PM

Just going to say, the GOP and Democratic party aren't that much different... sure, they spew their talking points, but they both want to increase spending and want larger government control.

8/20/2012 10:10:51 PM

Both parties want to either spend more or reduce taxes. Most 4-year-olds have superior logic.

The real election is about spending, and like the Clinton history showed, the Democrat candidate is the austerity candidate. Because Republicans like it that way.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/post/the-keynesian-case-for-romney/2012/06/04/gJQAIETuDV_blog.html

Our lawmakers aren't stupid. They just pretend to be for their job.

Quote :

"Even if you disagree with every one of Mitt Romney’s policies, there’s a chance he’s still the best candidate to lift the economy in 2013. That’s not because he has business experience. For all his bluster about the lessons taught by the private sector, his agenda is indistinguishable from that of career politician Paul Ryan. Nor is it because he’s demonstrated some special knowledge of what it takes to create jobs. Job growth in Massachusetts was notably slow under Romney’s tenure. It’s because if Romney is elected, Republicans won’t choose to crash the economy in 2013."

Anyone who thinks they wouldn't play this game simply hasn't been paying attention.

Quote :

"Now, Republicans could still push the economy into recession if they pass an immediate austerity budget that slashed spending in 2013. And, given Republican rhetoric about how slashing the size of government will lead to more growth because the confidence fairy will come out and persuade businesses to spend more, you might think that’s exactly what they’ll do. But Romney, though he often buys into that sort of nonsense while criticizing Obama, knows better. Time magazine asked him about cutting spending in 2013. “If you take a trillion dollars for instance, out of the first year of the federal budget, that would shrink GDP over 5 percent,” Romney said. “That is by definition throwing us into recession or depression. So I’m not going to do that, of course.” You couldn’t have gotten a clearer definition of Keynesian budgeting from Obama."

Obama is the austerity candidate. A second term would set off the full force of the GOP scorched-Earth strategy. Well, calling it a strategy is awfully generous. They just need to break shit, it's not a difficult job. This is the problem with the 2-party system. All they need is to stay marginally above the other party, and get political donations.

We don't have an exit option. We can't vote them out. The media won't even give fair coverage to a libertarian in the GOP, and the volume of political donations has gone astronomical.

Someday, someday, a re-balancing will happen where the Western governments are forced to dump their debt one way or the other. It won't look anything even close to Greece.

8/20/2012 11:09:00 PM

The mistake most people make is assuming the GOP braintrust is stupid. It's not and never has been. A Romney presidency isn't going to net a huge reduction in the budget at the cost of the American economy. It is, however, going to net further deregulation and weakening of Federal power as it applies to business and the economy, while strengthening government power as it applies to social issues.

A type of government resembling modern Russia, with a distinct power class solidifying its position at the top if you will.

8/20/2012 11:37:01 PM

^I will agree with you on that

I have always said "there's a bigger plan" and Romney isn't a major factor in that

8/20/2012 11:46:51 PM

^^ I don't personally equate lessening regulation with empowering the power class. It's too broad, what regulation are we talking about? Banking, for instance, is basically already done the way government tells it to do business. Don't mistake Republicans as being for banking deregulation. The national security complex is a large source of the retail banking sector, this is why banks ask questions. Like the telecommunications, they're used as a clearing house with huge data banks which the national security agencies can draw from.

Making it difficult to move money in-country and in general live your life is a pro-regulation stance. It would be nice if we could reduce regulation. It would be nice.

Quote :

"A Romney presidency isn't going to net a huge reduction in the budget at the cost of the American economy."

The GWB administration was generous on all fronts. Romney probably won't have that luxury with the pressure for symbolic cuts. This always occurs in non-defense discretionary spending. His ads are already setting up the DOE as the sacrificial lamb. Obama took a risk with Chu, promoting a science-oriented agenda. Romney ads are using ARPA-E investments like Solindra to paint Obama as a crony capitalist.

The 2005 energy policy was important, very important. We're going to see a reversal of that direction from the GOP. It's not just energy, it's research across the board that stands on the chopping block. Romney is making promises to senior on Medicare, wants to increase military spending, and has spending cut pressure. Projects that can't hide in the purview of the DOD stand in a precarious place.

Oh yeah, don't forget education cuts!

8/21/2012 12:02:15 AM

8/21/2012 12:12:45 AM

Man I hope I don't get wrinkles like that

8/21/2012 12:17:54 AM

Black don't crack.

8/21/2012 12:18:46 AM

8/21/2012 5:25:59 PM

8/21/2012 5:30:02 PM

^ is that a quote from Ryan? Forcible rape is more severe than the other kinds of rape listed there...

8/21/2012 5:46:59 PM

Can we stop fucking saying "forcible" rape? Akin shouldn't have said "forcible" over "legitimate" because both are stupid to insert there

rape is rape

just because she's passed out doesn't mean it's more acceptable


[Edited on August 21, 2012 at 7:20 PM. Reason : maybe to these idiot Republicans it is]

8/21/2012 7:17:54 PM

Quote :

"^ is that a quote from Ryan? Forcible rape is more severe than the other kinds of rape listed there..."

It's not a quote, it's from the actual bill that Ryan sponsored with Akin.

Quote :

"SEC. 309. TREATMENT OF ABORTIONS RELATED TO RAPE, INCEST, OR PRESERVING THE LIFE OF THE MOTHER. `The limitations established in sections 301, 302, 303, and 304 shall not apply to an abortion-- `(1) if the pregnancy occurred because the pregnant female was the subject of an act of forcible rape or, if a minor, an act of incest; or `(2) in the case where the pregnant female suffers from a physical disorder, physical injury, or physical illness that would, as certified by a physician, place the pregnant female in danger of death unless an abortion is performed, including a life-endangering physical condition caused by or arising from the pregnancy itself."

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?c112:1:./temp/~c112npGK2k::

Romney would support a personhood amendment to the Constitution

8/21/2012 8:25:48 PM

All rape is wrong, but there are different levels of violence involved.

8/21/2012 8:55:54 PM

i would just feel insulted if i were a republican


this dude flippity flops constantly just to pander to whoever is near. its just rude.


dont get me wrong, all politicians pander, but at least most stay on one side of the fence or the other

8/21/2012 9:01:33 PM

Quote :

"rape is rape"

not really.

if it were, just using our own state as an example, ncgs 14-27 wouldn't have so many incarnations and wildly varying sentencing guidelines.

(and, this is in no way meant as an endorsement of what that idiot Akin said, merely pointing out it's not as black and white as you implied, nor as its already been codified)

[Edited on August 21, 2012 at 9:19 PM. Reason : .]

8/21/2012 9:19:27 PM

Quote :

"All rape is wrong, but there are different levels of violence involved."

Yeah, but that isn't what they're saying by making levels of rape

sure, use mitigating or aggravating factors in your sentencing: I don't have a problem with that

but codifying sentencing for "lesser or unforced rapes" is not something anyone should [semantically] support

[Edited on August 21, 2012 at 9:29 PM. Reason : because rape can not, in any way, be a "lesser" violation of a woman's body]

8/21/2012 9:27:44 PM

Balls in a knot, and sandy vaginas.

8/21/2012 10:29:14 PM

[Edited on August 21, 2012 at 10:31 PM. Reason : wtf]

8/21/2012 10:29:14 PM

Rape is already, by definition, forcible and unwanted.

8/21/2012 10:49:09 PM

Quote :

"i would just feel insulted if i were a republican this dude flippity flops constantly just to pander to whoever is near. its just rude. dont get me wrong, all politicians pander, but at least most stay on one side of the fence or the other"

8/22/2012 12:38:03 AM