7.62

7/24/2012 5:12:41 PM

Quote :

"I will do my damnedest to be sure I'm prepared in the--admittedly unlikely--event I should ever have occasion to defend myself or my family from one of them, be they of foreign or domestic threat. It's not about being a gun nut. It's a hobby, sure, and a damn fun one. But it's rooted in safety, longevity, survival and preparedness, qualities that should not be dismissed even by the most urban of men. I keep myself reasonably fit, so I will be physically pepared for anything. I keep lots of tools and try to remain handy with most common repairs and fabrications. I keep firearms to protect myself from those who might accost me with their own. It's not tin foil hat, it's not nutty, it's common sense for the self-sufficient individual."

Very well put

7/24/2012 5:13:21 PM

Putting a ton of effort into keeping something very unlikely from happening certainly seems nutty

Kinda like a guy in north Dakota putting effort into protecting his house from a

7/24/2012 5:16:59 PM

That quote on the earlier page, the one by Isoroku Yamamoto, about not invading the U.S. because guns being behind every blade of grass. it's widely thought to be bogus quote, he never said it.

[Edited on July 24, 2012 at 5:20 PM. Reason : ]

7/24/2012 5:20:07 PM

you guys are easier to agitate than the Western Style BBQ people

7/24/2012 5:22:17 PM

^^

I believe the exact quote was "You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind each blade of grass."

But I thought the motivation poster was more appealing to the eye than just a sea of text.

I don't know 100% if it's real, but I wouldn't doubt it per se.

[Edited on July 24, 2012 at 5:25 PM. Reason : .]

7/24/2012 5:24:18 PM

How many people here actually think most people that murder with guns buy them legally? Because banning guns would do only that, punish people that buy guns legally.

Most gang bangers or anyone with any sense not to get traced back would buy their guns off the street. Hence, prohibition would do literally nothing except alienate the people that are into hunting, self-defense, gun collecting, or what have you.

I don't get why that's hard to understand.

7/24/2012 5:48:06 PM

Is BlackJesus trying to become the new God? This thread is a good start, but you're going to have to step up your game if that's your goal.

7/24/2012 5:50:19 PM

don't encourage him

7/24/2012 6:00:55 PM

Quote :

"Most gang bangers or anyone with any sense not to get traced back would buy their guns off the street."

the guns sold on the street are likely stolen from someone who bought them legally. I'm not for gun control but its equally short sighted to think making guns illegal wouldn't affect the criminal element

7/24/2012 6:22:59 PM

but it would have a larger impact on law-abiding citizens.

I think there needs to be a better mental health system.

7/24/2012 6:34:43 PM

ahaha, apparently background checks and gun sales have jumped dramatically in CoLOLrado since the Aurora shooting.

I'm guessing either a lot of people are scared the gubment is about to take their guns away, or a lot of people are scared of other people with guns now and want to protect themselves.

7/24/2012 6:36:38 PM

In case you didn't see it on pg 6

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysf8x477c30

7/24/2012 6:37:03 PM

I personally have been looking into a conceal permit so that I don't have to face stricter policies.

7/24/2012 6:38:15 PM

Quote :

"its equally short sighted to think making guns illegal wouldn't affect the criminal element"

it would make robbin and stealin much less dangerous for them

7/24/2012 6:39:13 PM

Quote :

"I personally have been looking into a conceal permit so that I don't have to face stricter policies."

A lot of non-"gun people" that I am friends with are also looking into this. Potential stricter gun control makes gun sales skyrocket

7/24/2012 6:41:27 PM

I understand your concern, Klatypus, no matter how idiotic it is. There was actually an interesting article on the washingtonpost earlier today predicting this, and describing exactly why it's so stupid:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/gun-sales-spike-after-12-killed-in-colorado-movie-theater/2012/07/24/gJQA7suP7W_story.html?hpid=z6

7/24/2012 6:45:38 PM

Quote :

"I believe the exact quote was "You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind each blade of grass." But I thought the motivation poster was more appealing to the eye than just a sea of text. I don't know 100% if it's real, but I wouldn't doubt it per se."

if you think private citizen gun ownership is a major factor in why the US hasnt been invaded in 100 years, you are deluded.

we have the worlds most advanced armed forces and a large stockpile of nuclear weapons plus oceans b/w us and most potential enemies. if those things arent enough to deter a foreign invader, a bunch of untrained citizens def wont.

same for claiming to own guns to a protect against a goverment that turns our armed forces against us (which is a ridiculous notion for arguing the legality of guns, if you think the gov is capable of that, you wont give a shit if guns are legal or not).

as for armed revolt against our democratically elected government b/c you think obama was born in kenya or bush strong armed the election, that is just nutjob level.

gun ownership also seemingly only provides personal/family protection in very specific environments such as home invasion where you have a chance to arm yourself before the invader finds you. if someone accosts you with a gun on the street, you are fucked even if armed unless you are some wild west motherfucker.

as for an aurora situation, having a gun has the potential to reduce casualties, or it has the potential to make you a target, depending on your luck.

do pro-gun people advocate allowing carry on an airplane?

i'd appreciate reasoned arguments against the above, as a i could be talking out my ass.

7/24/2012 6:48:06 PM

The US government has one of the biggest pushers of illegal weapons to mexican drug cartels. What would ever make you think that losing our 2nd amendment rights to them would make us any safer?

7/24/2012 6:48:23 PM

what kind of jobs do you guys have that allows you to argue for 7 pages during work hours

7/24/2012 7:00:46 PM

How about this. Firearms are used in SELF DEFENSE approx. 2 MILLION times a year. You want to argue for the banning of guns, please explain to me how another 2 million victims a year is a positive benefit.

7/24/2012 7:05:50 PM

wow, this thread is the fastest growing TWW thread in a long time. 7 pages in a day

7/24/2012 7:10:00 PM

Quote :

"i'd appreciate reasoned arguments against the above, as a i could be talking out my ass."

for the most part, you are, but i'll address one of those. guns should not be legal for civilians to carry on an airplane at any time. if you need a gun transported between destinations it should be shipped separately and to a location other than an airport. there's an obvious danger to having a gun present in the first place, but the extra element is being in a pressurized tin can thousands of feet in the air. guns are also much easier to detect in security checks/scans than other weapons and it's much more reasonable to expect to have less need of one for your own defense.

7/24/2012 7:15:06 PM

^^^how many of those instances are against people who also had a gun? how many of those instances were w/ anything other than a revolver?

Also, one of the arguments in this thread is that making guns illegal wont stop people from having guns, which is irrelevant to whether guns should be legal or not.

my opinion is guns should be hard to get, require a long wait, require training and have very strong consequences for illegal possession.

[Edited on July 24, 2012 at 7:19 PM. Reason : ^a good debate technique is to says "your arguments are dumb" and then not say why, educate me.]

7/24/2012 7:18:50 PM

all you gotta do now is lock it up in a case and check it with the rest of your bags

u mad?

[Edited on July 24, 2012 at 7:19 PM. Reason : this thread is hilarious]

7/24/2012 7:19:04 PM

^if that is directed at me, i would say that since that is irrelevant to my question, no i am not mad.

7/24/2012 7:22:26 PM

sorry r woody my phone deleted the first 1/3 of my post and i don't remember what it said lol

7/24/2012 7:23:34 PM

haha no worries, happens to me all the time

7/24/2012 7:24:23 PM

Quote :

"^^^how many of those instances are against people who also had a gun? how many of those instances were w/ anything other than a revolver? Also, one of the arguments in this thread is that making guns illegal wont stop people from having guns, which is irrelevant to whether guns should be legal or not."

What difference does it make? Is a semi-auto pistol more deadly than a revolver? The most powerful handgun loads out there are for revolvers. Fire fewer rounds? A moon clip or speedloader is not much slower than the average person swapping mags. The only advantage you have when facing someone with a revolver is public misconception.

As for your second argument, I disagree. I have the right to self defense. Taking my guns away makes a serious impact on how I'm going to defend myself. Get rid of all of the illegal guns first and THEN we can talk.

7/24/2012 7:39:15 PM

Quote :

"What difference does it make? Is a semi-auto pistol more deadly than a revolver? The most powerful handgun loads out there are for revolvers. Fire fewer rounds? A moon clip or speedloader is not much slower than the average person swapping mags. The only advantage you have when facing someone with a revolver is public misconception."

my first question matters b/c the argument in this thread is that having guns is necessary to protect against others w/ guns, whereas in my earlier post i claimed that in most instance when someone comes at you with a gun, you are fucked either way.

My second question matters b/c people are arguing that ALL guns should be readily available. a clear argument can be made that handguns have self-defense capability, the question is why an assault rifle or submachine gun is needed on top of that.

Quote :

"As for your second argument, I disagree. I have the right to self defense. Taking my guns away makes a serious impact on how I'm going to defend myself. Get rid of all of the illegal guns first and THEN we can talk."

i dont think that addresses my point, my point was that the argument that "if you make this law, people will just break it" isnt enough of a justification to not enact a law. you are providing more justification in your post.

7/24/2012 7:46:29 PM

Quote :

"^^^how many of those instances are against people who also had a gun? how many of those instances were w/ anything other than a revolver?"

One of the most deadly killing spees in all of history was executed with a revolver. Campo Elías Delgado killed 30 people, and wounded 15 more with a .32 caliber revolver

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campo_Elias_Delgado

[Edited on July 24, 2012 at 8:04 PM. Reason : spree]

7/24/2012 8:04:20 PM

^

Quote :

"Since he only had a revolver and a knife and many of the dead were killed by an Uzi, it is alleged that the police were responsible for some of the deaths."

[Edited on July 24, 2012 at 8:12 PM. Reason : erp]

7/24/2012 8:12:41 PM

lololol

7/24/2012 8:17:13 PM

very, very few have access to assault weapons or sub-machine guns.
Most people have access to replicas or civilian versions of said weapons though.

I carry a gun for protection of myself, from other people with guns, knives, clubs, disparaging force.

Also, I train enough that I am confident in my abilities with my firearms.



And yes, I do feel as though people should be allowed to carry on airplanes.

[Edited on July 24, 2012 at 8:25 PM. Reason : .]

7/24/2012 8:24:48 PM

nah, you're probably just a gun nut with a rambo complex

7/24/2012 8:25:38 PM

Quote :

"a clear argument can be made that handguns have self-defense capability, the question is why an assault rifle or submachine gun is needed on top of that."

the point has already been made several times about the difference between an AR-15 and an assault rifle.

and this thread may not be the proper place to bring up a comparison of the pistol vs the AR-15 as a home defense weapon, but i will provide a hint: the AR-15 is superior.

those of you that are genuinely interested in the history and development behind the modern sporting rifle (aka the AR-15 and its derivatives) may read more at this link: http://www.nssf.org/MSR/history.cfm

[Edited on July 24, 2012 at 8:29 PM. Reason : add another note ]

7/24/2012 8:28:35 PM

^^I'm not sure if that is some sort of sarcasm, or trolling?


I complete 60+ hours of advanced firearm training every year, including handgun, carbine, shotgun, weapon retention, and in/around vehicles.

[Edited on July 24, 2012 at 8:29 PM. Reason : .]

7/24/2012 8:29:31 PM

I've robbed quite a few places with a gun. Personally, the very first fucking thing I do is shoot people in the face if they have a concealed weapon on them trying to pull some john wayne shit.

7/24/2012 8:29:58 PM

how do you know they have a concealed weapon? X-ray vision?

7/24/2012 8:30:38 PM

i mainly use my concealed carry permit to get back my BAD MOTHERFUCKER wallet from british robbers

7/24/2012 8:31:23 PM

don't be silly

7/24/2012 8:32:02 PM

Quote :

"a clear argument can be made that handguns have self-defense capability, the question is why an assault rifle or submachine gun is needed on top of that."

Because I'm not interested in parity; I'm interested in it being an all-but one-sided confrontation.

Hence the doomsday shotgun:

7/24/2012 8:32:38 PM

Quote :

"my first question matters b/c the argument in this thread is that having guns is necessary to protect against others w/ guns, whereas in my earlier post i claimed that in most instance when someone comes at you with a gun, you are fucked either way. My second question matters b/c people are arguing that ALL guns should be readily available. a clear argument can be made that handguns have self-defense capability, the question is why an assault rifle or submachine gun is needed on top of that."

First, a gun is the best defensive weapon possible. When facing someone with a knife, you can't hold them off, they're very difficult to hold onto, and you're more likely to cut yourself while trying to defend yourself. The average person can cover 20' in less than 2 seconds. If they've had even a minimum of training and they have a knife and want to cut you, you're going to get cut. IF you have a firearm, there's a better possibility of holding them at bay, out of striking distance. They know you can reach out and touch them without getting in close. For someone smaller, a pistol is an excellent choice. A woman stands a much better chance of holding a potential rapist at bay with a pistol than with a knife. If said attacker has a gun then it's obvious what the best option is.

Your second point is invalid. Assault rifles and submachine guns are RARELY used in attacks (like literally just above never). You've bought into the media hype that we have some huge issue with them when it just doesn't exist. The AR-15 used in this attack is NOT an assault rifle (the "AR" is AR-15 stands for Armalite Rifle, not assault rifle like many believe). An assault rifle or submachine gun are full auto or select-fire weapons (fire more than one round per trigger pull). An AR-15 is a semi-auto firearm just like the majority of hunting rifles. The difference is that they're usually a smaller caliber (i.e. less powerful) and less accurate than those hunting rifles. They look "scary" so people assume they're these big powerful weapons when that just isn't the case. Another argument is that they hold too many rounds but larger mags are available for many firearms that people have no problem with. The Ruger 10/22 is a small rifle that fires the .22 rimfire round. You can get 25+ round mags for them. Most people use them for target shooting and small game hunting (squirrels). The .22 kills more people than any other round but I've never seen a single picture of one on the news, heard someone call it an "assault weapon", or declare that no "sane" person has a use for such a "powerful gun" but you're more likely to get shot with the round that rifle uses than the one coming out of the "evil black rifles" that you and the media call assault weapons.

7/24/2012 8:35:42 PM

^^ that is a nice gun. I found one when I broke into some dude's vehicle... happy birthday to me

7/24/2012 8:36:04 PM

Damn, shoulda known. You people.

7/24/2012 8:37:34 PM

^^^you are arguing seperate points, my points are attemps to argue against things people have already argued in this thread.

you are putting forth good, thought out arguments but my posts arent really directed at you.

[Edited on July 24, 2012 at 8:40 PM. Reason : a]

7/24/2012 8:39:55 PM

So... you're more concerned with addressing individuals than addressing the actual argument?

7/24/2012 8:44:00 PM

7/24/2012 8:46:32 PM

I know this is a troll thread, but the coincidence is too lolsworthy

Quote :

"I've robbed quite a few places with a gun. Personally, the very first fucking thing I do is shoot people in the face if they have a concealed weapon on them trying to pull some john wayne shit."

http://www.newarkadvocate.com/article/20120723/NEWS01/207230302/Police-Intruder-shot-by-Johnstown-homeowner-while-searching-guns?odyssey=mod|newswell|text||p

Quote :

"John Mutter was asleep on a couch inside his 474 Sunset Drive home when the paraplegic awoke to a masked man pointing a shotgun at Mutter’s head at 2:15 a.m. Sunday, Johnstown Police Chief Don Corbin said. The intruder, later identified as Brian Dyer, 27, of Johnstown, had stolen the shotgun from a bedroom in Mutter’s home after entering through an unlocked door, Corbin said. Dyer said he had taken medication and wanted to know where more guns were located, Corbin said. Mutter told him while pushing the shotgun aside, then shot Dyer with a handgun Mutter kept nearby, Corbin said. ... Dyer attempted to leave but collapsed in another room, Corbin said. He was pronounced dead at the scene."

7/24/2012 8:51:28 PM

Quote :

"^^^you are arguing seperate points, my points are attemps to argue against things people have already argued in this thread. you are putting forth good, thought out arguments but my posts arent really directed at you. "

So the subject doesn't matter, just what a couple of people think about it? If you can refute their opinions or points then guns should be banned/restricted regardless of other opinions or points? I have to say I've argued with many people about firearms laws but this is the first time someone has told me "you're making good points but I'm going to specifically ignore them and argue with those people over there."

7/24/2012 8:51:45 PM