Quote :

"some of his staff didn't even bother recruiting at all (Tenuta)."

there are plenty of coordinators who don't recruit. Bud Foster certainly comes to mind.

11/30/2015 10:33:14 AM

Quote :

"Once again packboozie is a complete idiot"

Why because DD can beat Wake and Syracuse?

[Edited on November 30, 2015 at 12:12 PM. Reason : 6-18 ACC record]

11/30/2015 12:06:58 PM

^^sure. but if the head coach doesn't take recruiting seriously in addition to the DC (or whatever position Tenuta held) not taking recruiting seriously, and your classes are on par with Wake Forest...I think it's reasonable to question whether or not that staff is capable of bringing in the talent needed to compete for and win conference titles. and the fact that TOB wasn't Yow's hire made it all the easier for her to make a move.

[Edited on November 30, 2015 at 12:18 PM. Reason : f]

11/30/2015 12:17:36 PM

last three pages of this thread have been

$$$

11/30/2015 1:15:52 PM

NC State is just 2-21 under Doeren against teams that finished the year with a winning record.

12/7/2015 2:33:12 PM

yeeeesh *tugs shirt collar*

12/7/2015 2:39:53 PM

^^ tar holes and ucf from that toilet bowl last year, right?

12/7/2015 4:12:42 PM

We beat UCF so hard that they forgot how to win after that

12/7/2015 4:20:27 PM

are we sure that stat is correct?

Seems like ODU was a winning record team last year too.

and I KNOW that Georgia Southern had one...BOTH years.

That stat is incorrect.

[Edited on December 7, 2015 at 4:28 PM. Reason : d]

12/7/2015 4:26:39 PM

He's probably referring to P5 schools

12/7/2015 4:27:59 PM

I see you guys have still not moved past that 2013 season...

12/7/2015 4:33:35 PM

Fine, let's just focus on this season:

Teams we beat:

Troy (4-8, 7th Place, Sun Belt)
Eastern Kentucky (6-5, 4th Place, OhioValley, FCS*)
Old Dominion (5-7, Tied 11th, C-USA, 2nd Year FBS*)
Southern Alabama (5-7, 5th Place, Sun Belt)
Wake Forest (3-9, [1-7], Tied 13th, ACC)
Boston College (3-9, [0-8], 14th, ie Last, ACC)
Syracuse (4-8, [2-6], 11th, ACC)


So we beat a few shitty Sun Belt teams, an FCS team, a 2nd Year FBS team, and three of the worst teams in the ACC.

And we lost our 5 remaining conference games by an average of about 13 points.


Oh, and we're starting a new QB next year, play ECU and Notre Dame, and our 2016 recruiting class is currently ranked 57th in the country (10th in the ACC).




Yep.

12/7/2015 5:04:54 PM

Quote :

"He's probably referring to P5 schools"

nah, DD hasn't beaten a P5 team with a winning record

i think the stat is vs FBS opponents. probably doesn't include FCS teams.

Quote :

"and I KNOW that Georgia Southern had one...BOTH years."

didn't we only play them one year?

so i assume it's Ga Southern and UCF. assuming it's correct.

[Edited on December 7, 2015 at 5:12 PM. Reason : f]

12/7/2015 5:11:50 PM

Yeah well I mean when you put it that way...

12/7/2015 5:11:56 PM

Quote :

"So we beat a few shitty Sun Belt teams, an FCS team, a 2nd Year FBS team, and three of the worst teams in the ACC."

We took care of business, obliterating all of the teams that we should have beaten.

Quote :

"And we lost our 5 remaining conference games by an average of about 13 points."

Not bad against a group of teams with a median rank of 10

Quote :

"Oh, and we're starting a new QB next year,"

So we might not be able to throw downfield well which might allow teams to load the box against our run? k

Quote :

"play ECU and Notre Dame"

so in summary

beating bad teams is bad
beating average teams is bad
losing to great teams is bad
scheduling good teams is bad

I guess beating top 10 teams is the only good option.

Quote :

"nd our 2016 recruiting class is currently ranked 57th in the country (10th in the ACC)."

This is what happens when your team is so young that virtually all positions are accounted for with young players. Also replacing a thin 87th ranked class with a thin 57th ranked class is still a vast improvement but you obviously want to put a negative spin on everything so be my guest.

12/7/2015 5:39:22 PM

Median rank.


Tip of the hat, sir.

12/7/2015 5:55:18 PM

In other words, "Most of our losses were against top 10 teams."

12/7/2015 6:03:09 PM

Quote :

"Oh, and we're starting a new QB next year"

this is an accurate statement. but let's not pretend that we're losing an all-world QB in Brissett. he was pretty average overall. could evade pressure, and extend plays, had a poor arm, and really was too conservative at times.

as a side note, i think we've kinda been spoiled since the Rivers days. we've had 3 great QBs and maybe 6 (evans, beck, davis, stone, pete thomas, brandon mitchell) really bad QBs. Brissett is seemingly the only average QB we've had.



[Edited on December 7, 2015 at 6:15 PM. Reason : "spoiled" may be the wrong word, but you get the point.]

12/7/2015 6:13:37 PM

Our wins were over schools with a median RPI of 110th. Syracuse being our best win, with a respectable RPI of 89th in the country.

12/7/2015 6:18:42 PM

Quote :

"We took care of business, obliterating all of the teams that we should have beaten."

Did we obliterate Richmond?

12/7/2015 6:28:31 PM

^in fairness, we did obliterate the cupcakes we played THIS season

12/7/2015 6:40:03 PM

We fired TOB to beat the VTs, Pitts, UNCs, Miamis, Louisvilles of the world and so far he has not done it.

I felt better about the program after last season than I do now. That's not a good sign after year 3.

As mentioned the schedule is much tougher next year so 7-5 next year would actually be alright.

[Edited on December 7, 2015 at 6:50 PM. Reason : Can we go 3-1 OOC beating ECU, ODU, W&M? And then 4-4 ACC????]

12/7/2015 6:49:55 PM

^ The thing is, a case can be made that this team is pretty much the same as the team that closed out last year, and that our hot finish was more of a result of the teams we faced rather than a demonstrable improvement.

2/3rds of Daaaaave Dooooeren (I always say his name like Matt Damon in Team America) ACC wins have come against Wake and Syracuse. And our OCC foes were sooo bad this season, that our "decisive victories" seem less impressive when you analyze how those teams fared.

That's why I'm worried about a drop off next season with a tougher schedule and new QB. If Doeren loses in Greenville in week 2, he'll be balls deep in trouble.

A win against Miss St. could help stabilize the ground beneath him, though.

[Edited on December 7, 2015 at 7:10 PM. Reason : ]

12/7/2015 7:07:57 PM

tbh we lose by 40 to msu tho

12/7/2015 7:38:28 PM

Sorry, mean RPI of 110, median RPI of 100 for our losses

12/7/2015 8:10:34 PM

Quote :

" I felt better about the program after last season than I do now. That's not a good sign after year 3. "

That's how I feel too but I will give him a break this year as he did lose Thornton and Dayes and that has to count for something. When we had Dayes we did lose to Louisville and VT so it's not exactly like we were world beaters up into that point. The formula to beat us has been consistent all season.

1) Run a power run play and give it to your best RB for massive yards

2) Run at least 4 deep ball plays a game in which 50% will result in a touchdown or huge yards

3) Concentrate your defensive efforts on the run and blitz the QB.

4) Don't be a compete idiot in coaching

Next year we will have Dayes, Hines, Gallaspy, Nichols, and Fraiser as running backs and Samuels at FB baring injury/attrition. That's a damn stacked bunch of running backs, we're already #4 this year in the ACC in rushing, but are #10 in passing which has sucked the past two years, and if we want to be competitive in the ACC then we need to start becoming a threat in that department.I was surprised our defense was ranked #5 in the ACC, it seemed like that our secondary was always getting scorched.

12/7/2015 8:18:58 PM

Quote :

"I felt better about the program after last season than I do now. That's not a good sign after year 3."

The MSU game wil determind this for me

12/7/2015 10:19:06 PM

Quote :

"Next year we will have Dayes, Hines, Gallaspy, Nichols, and Fraiser as running backs and Samuels at FB baring injury/attrition"

hines will move back to WR when we have a fully healthy stable of backs. but, yes, it's still a loaded backfield.

12/7/2015 11:04:08 PM

The O-line still has to block too, pal.

12/7/2015 11:28:56 PM

Quote :

"The team’s GPA for 2014-15 was 2.79. "

Less than mediocre on the field, and less than mediocre in the classroom. This guy is a winner.

Even Deadspin is calling us out for paying him:

http://deadspin.com/college-football-coaches-are-making-millions-off-a-usel-1742644295?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_twitter&utm_source=deadspin_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow

12/10/2015 2:29:38 PM

Quote :

"less than mediocre in the classroom."

Quote :

"The team’s GPA for 2014-15 was 2.79. While this did not trigger a bonus, it did mark an all-time high for the program, which is a positive indicator with respect to the overall academic trend for the team."

less than mediocre, all-time high for the program could go either way eh?

Quote :

"Deadspin is calling us out for paying him"

Bullshit. They're indicting the entire APR system (and related bonuses), and by extension the NCAA who mandate the reporting of that (allegedly meaningless) metric.

12/10/2015 2:46:06 PM

DL to Clemson. Can't keep the top talent in-state.

12/14/2015 4:42:23 PM

Quote :

"Even Deadspin is calling us out for paying him"

The reporter is from Duke, of course he is going to pick apart the contract of a neighbor school to prove his point.

[Edited on December 14, 2015 at 4:51 PM. Reason : .]

12/14/2015 4:50:05 PM

ehh...DL is one of the best players in the nation. players like that are generally always gonna go to premier programs whether they are in-state or out of state. the "keeping the talent in the state" argument isn't that strong of an argument when players are leaving NC to go to a neighboring state (SC) and play for the #1 team in the country. it definitely sucks that we didn't get him, of course.

12/14/2015 4:50:47 PM

Quote :

"the "keeping the talent in the state" argument isn't that strong of an a stupid argument"

12/14/2015 4:58:21 PM

^^I just think maybe we can be consistent with our criticism of our coaches. This was one of the big knocks against TOB and CTC. And I agree that it is critical if we are are going to ever compete for a conference championship, we MUST win the top in-state recruits. But maybe we can count this as another moral victory. DD is leading the nation with those.

^^^ I think I read that he is a State fan, even though he went to Duke. Doesn't make him wrong.

[Edited on December 14, 2015 at 5:03 PM. Reason : ^Doesnt understand how programs are built]

12/14/2015 5:02:58 PM

it'd be one thing if we were actually a strong program and perennially a top 25 program and still lost out on in-state talent. but a 7-5 team losing out to a playoff team for a top recruit isn't an example of being unable to keep recruits in-state.

for the most part, there is no elite program in NC. state, ecu, unc, duke, etc are all mediocre to bad programs on a national level. of course unc bucked that trend this season. but consistently, no team has been a football power at any point in their history. so it shouldn't shock anybody that 5* players from NC would rather play for nationally relevant programs that happen to be out of state.

i agree that we need to be consistent in criticisms...and last year it seemed like our staff did good job of locking up that talent (Frasier, McGirt, Hines, etc). no matter where the recruits are from, the best of the best in the nation are gonna almost always go to a top program. to me, that logic applies better to mid-tier recruits who may choose a school like VT or UL or somebody over us. those guys are roughly on our same level, so we should win those recruiting battles.

[Edited on December 14, 2015 at 5:08 PM. Reason : f]

12/14/2015 5:04:02 PM

thats a very narrow-minded traditional way of looking at it. now, its more about styles. if all else is equal, players are going to pick the team that is the best fit, not the program in the state they live in. that means less and less today with social media and out of state games being available on tv.

For example, if we get good and lose a 5 star pocket passer to vt, its not really an issue even though thats a player that could help us. We shouldn't be landing pocket passing qbs anyway because our style isn't the best fit for them.

with that said, our recruiting is more about landing guys that fit into our system than it is about landing high ranked guys. if we ran a pro-style offense, those would probably match up. we will be lucky if there are some top programs in the state that start running the same offense as us. DD should do coaches clinics for free to try and speed that process up.

12/14/2015 6:06:19 PM

Fedora stubbornly tried to run his system in the South Carolina game, ignoring his stud freshman running back. Then he wised up and they won like 10 games in a row. Meanwhile Doeren isn't supposed to adjust the way he coaches based on the personnel he has, that's not what he was brought here to do, according to Earl.

Kyle Shanahan has some fucked up west coast offense down in Atlanta, even though that doesn't fit the strengths of Ryan and the offense. How's that working out for him?

[Edited on December 14, 2015 at 7:01 PM. Reason : .]

12/14/2015 7:00:52 PM

I wish you stopped to think about circumstances before making that post. I regret to inform you that circumstances are dynamic and the circumstances of those teams is very different from ours. Fedora has an experienced team led by a group of elite seniors. Their best chance to win was this year and they had to capture the moment. The USC game had more to do with inexplicable interceptions in the red zone than it had to do with coaching though. Its not like they stopped throwing passes in the redzone.

Atlanta is a pro team with an established roster. NFL is not the same as college because you need to make your system fit your players in the nfl while college is more like a long-term GM project of drafting players to fit your system.

No one of significance cares that DD didn't adjust his system to get the most out of a class ranked 87. That would have been a lose lose lose situation. The lose lose is even if you get the most out of those players, they still just aren't very talented and aren't going to do a lot and the 3rd lose is you wouldn't have been preparing for the future.

Now that we've weathered the storm, those players are almost all gone, we'll be better off with the experienced gained and not having to switch systems again.

12/14/2015 7:14:25 PM

I hope you're right about DD.

And why was UNC throwing in the redzone when they had a butterstick halfback? The ACC title game would've been 2 undefeated teams squaring off if Fedora adjusted his playcalling to his personnel in week 1 instead of waiting until week 2.

12/14/2015 7:16:13 PM

You can't say that. Football isn't played in a vacuum. Maybe if he ran more, the backs would've been banged up in the 2nd half of the season and lost some later games instead. Perhaps that discussion belongs in the fedora credibility watch thread though.

I'm not "right" about DD by saying he needs more time. If he falls short of what we want, I'm not "wrong" for waiting to find out. I'm not making any predictions I'm simply waiting to see how things play out. Going by the facts is not "right" or "wrong". Don't go patting yourself on the back if he fails, just because your "gut feeling" tells you he is a bad coach.

12/14/2015 7:25:01 PM

Spin it however you want. Fedora blew it in week 1. Doeren and any coach who wants to be successful can't just say "well this is muh system and this is what we're gonna run"

Don't you think if GT fired Paul Johnson, that the new coach, if he was worth a damn, would phase out the option into his own offense over a few seasons, instead of trying to get a bunch of option players to run a completely different offense immediately? You probably don't, but most people would.

[Edited on December 14, 2015 at 7:29 PM. Reason : let's have an option QB pass it 40 times per game. my players aren't here yet.]

12/14/2015 7:28:14 PM

The bad analogies just keep on coming.

If GT fired Johnson, it probably means the option players weren't running the option in a way that was worth running.

You also are operating under the assumption that we were left with a functioning team. No. We had group of five talent on a team that only moved the ball because they had an NFL QB who could not put up enough points to outscore the other team because of the failed defense. We had nothing worth "phasing out" after glennon was phased into the nfl
"

[Edited on December 14, 2015 at 7:34 PM. Reason : k]

12/14/2015 7:34:06 PM

Your unwillingness to discuss Doeren's potential shortcomings as a coach are very stubborn. Instead you just continue to try and buy yourself a 5 year window of "I can say anything and you can't prove that I'm wrong, until year 5"

[Edited on December 14, 2015 at 7:37 PM. Reason : TOB would've at least gone 1-7 with a "non-functioning" team]

[Edited on December 14, 2015 at 7:38 PM. Reason : Roy can't claim the 05 title, those were Doherty's terrible players]

12/14/2015 7:36:59 PM

Every coach has strengths and weaknesses. As an NC State fan, I'm not dwelling on the weaknesses of our coach.

Personally, I would not have been any happier to go 1-7 or even 2-6 as opposed to 0-9 or whatever the numbers were. Those are all equally dissatisfying to me but I see that it really hurt you. I'm sorry DD cost you a chance at a 5-7 season by going 3-9 running his system. That really seems to haunt you every day but I don't see what it would have done for our program.

Different fans have different goals I guess. If your goal was to have a higher floor, then DD was the wrong hire at the time he was hired. Thats over now. We've weathered that storm and theres no reason to believe we will ever go 3-9 under DD again. My goals are about program ceilings and I'm interested to see what happens in the next 2 seasons. If its more of the same, I'll be ready to move on.

12/14/2015 7:45:03 PM

My goal is the same as every sports fan. Win games. Meanwhile, you don't care that we went winless in conference 3 years ago. Wins aren't important and fans shouldn't care about a winless season, according to you.

12/14/2015 7:52:24 PM

I think most fans would agree with me when it comes to the matter of mortgaging the future to win 1 or 2 conference games instead of going winless in conference while building for the future.

I don't think many other fans would feel pride because their team went 4-8 instead of going 3-9

[Edited on December 14, 2015 at 7:57 PM. Reason : 3-9 and 4-8 are pretty much equally bad.]

[Edited on December 14, 2015 at 7:58 PM. Reason : its not even worth debating. no one elses goals reach that low]

12/14/2015 7:55:42 PM

i am more in line with e man on this...but i fall somewhere between the two. 0-8 was a fucking embarrassment, but i don't think 1-7 (4-8) or whatever is a significant difference. and i am in favor of giving DD plenty of time to see how this plays out. however, to TT's point..i think he's right in saying that it's perfectly fair and reasonable to point out DD's shortcomings and question his philosophy, style, game management, etc.

12/14/2015 8:04:39 PM

a lot of doeren dick sucking in this page. I'll be sure to quote you fags when ECU rocks us on the 2nd game.

12/14/2015 8:42:18 PM