Worst conference record in the history of North Carolina State University football? Didn't bother me in the slightest

- Earl

And I'm obviously hoping that he rights the ship and gets our program back to respectability. But you're as good as your record, and that 0-fer is on his record. You can't just ignore it.

And nobody would care about 0-8 if we had continued to get better. If we were looking at:

0-8
3-5
5-3

ok, we're making improvements from the shitty first season. But in actuality, we're looking at

0-8
3-5
3-5

[Edited on December 14, 2015 at 9:11 PM. Reason : .]

12/14/2015 8:56:36 PM

Quote :

"now, its more about styles. if all else is equal, players are going to pick the team that is the best fit, not the program in the state they live in."

Maybe we should start playing a style that will get us good players and win more than 3 games a year.

Quote :

"No one of significance cares that DD didn't adjust his system to get the most out of a class ranked 87. That would have been a lose lose lose situation. "

Instead it was a lose-lose-lose-lose-lose-lose-lose-lose situation.

12/14/2015 10:36:19 PM

Daaaaave..... Doooooeeren

Quote :

"3-9 and 4-8 are pretty much equally bad"

No. One is objectively worse than the other.

When you only play a dozen or so games a season, every win and loss matters.


In fact, that's EXACTLY why our last coach was fired. Because he was averaging 7-8 wins a season instead of 9-10 games a season. You can't casually dismiss one or two extra losses to defend one guy if you are going to justify dismissing another one for the exact same reason.

12/14/2015 11:17:03 PM

did someone mention objectively???

12/15/2015 11:46:23 AM

I think we're a better team than we were last year, unfortunately it didn't really show up in our results.

Last year we squeaked by a shitty Cuse team and soundly beat a really bad WF team at home and pummeled our rival (pretty much our highlight). Oh...and we barely beat Georgia Southern.

We got crushed by Clemson and Georgia Tech...as well as soundly beaten by Louisville and Boston College.

This year we beat all of our OOC teams the way we were suppose to. We also easily handled BC (away), WF (away), and Syracuse. We also put up respectable efforts against FSU and Clemson (top 10 team and #1 team in the country). The UNC game sucked...but I guess we shouldn't have crushed them the year before either.

Basically the Louisville and Vtech games fucked our season. We didn't play well and our game plans were sub-par. But those were both winnable games and you could probably say we should have won them.

Personally...I think our team improved from last year to this year. And we also did it without our two best offensive weapons for a majority of the season. UNC would have lost two or three more games if Hood and Logan were out for the same amount of time.

If our QB situation works out next year, then I think we can have a good year. Unfortunately our schedule is tougher, so it might not show up in the results. But I'd be ecstatic with 5-3 in the ACC.

12/15/2015 12:32:59 PM

^ Seeing a lot of coulda, shoulda, woulda in that post, and a few ifs as well.

It's hard to argue facts vs. hypotheticals, but this board seems to do it pretty consistently.

12/15/2015 3:09:59 PM

Don't worry Marquise Williams guaranteed UNC would win the national title next year with Trubinsky so we might as well just shut it down anyways.

12/15/2015 3:18:51 PM

my biggest complaint this year is jacoby looked like he regressed. maybe that has to do with losing hines, but also seems like every time he had a man wide open deep he overthrew him by a mile. i think with competent qb play we beat vt, and louisville, and do a better job hanging with clemson, fsu, and unc and maybe steal one.

12/15/2015 3:29:43 PM

I agree.

With better players, we will win more games.


Good thing we have all these top 40 classes to look forward to!

12/15/2015 3:35:15 PM

Quote :

"^ Seeing a lot of coulda, shoulda, woulda in that post, and a few ifs as well. It's hard to argue facts vs. hypotheticals, but this board seems to do it pretty consistently."

I'm just saying that we looked better as a team all year. Last year we looked good for like two and a half games (UNC, bowl game, first half of FSU). This year we dominated weaker teams and competed against top 10 teams. We fucked up against the mediocre teams. Sucks...but oh well.

Next year's big "if" is the QB position...hardly an uncommon theme for most teams.[quote]

12/15/2015 3:38:24 PM

It's hard to judge the quality of our OCC wins, though, because ALL of those (FCS) teams ended up with losing records. So those decisive wins weren't as impressive as they appear. The same can be said for the ACC wins this year. 2/3 of Doeren's total ACC wins have come against BC and Syracuse. That's terrible. And our biggest rival has just as many conference wins in Carter Finley as we do. Same can be said about current Atlantic Division leader Clemson. If we were out recruiting these teams, along with the other top half members of our division, then our current state wouldn't be as concerning. But we aren't.

So while we looked at times better this season (which I actually agree with), it's still not enough to instil confidence moving forward with a much harder schedule and a huge question mark at QB.




[Edited on December 15, 2015 at 3:50 PM. Reason : ]

12/15/2015 3:46:21 PM

You guys really dont get it with recruiting. I guess ive done a shitty job explaining it to you but a top 40 class makes our team improve even relative to teams with higher ranked classes.

12/15/2015 4:47:00 PM

^^ I really don't think we're that far apart. My only point was that we looked above average for a grand total of two and a half games last year. This year we looked above average for a majority of the season. And we never really shit the bed for a whole game (1st quarter against UNC...we actually had solid chances in every single game we lost).

I'm not saying we should give DD a raise, I just don't think its as "meh" as you're making it out to be. Two years ago was scary bad with our QB situation...last season was rough for 2/3 of the year and then we ended up on an upswing. This year we finished 7-5, are going to a decent bowl, and three tough losses against top 10 teams.

Would like to have had a better year, but it's progress IMO.

12/15/2015 4:56:49 PM

Quote :

"t's hard to judge the quality of our OCC wins, though, because ALL of those (FCS) teams ended up with losing records. So those decisive wins weren't as impressive as they appear"

yeah this is accurate...hell, we all joked about struggling with Ga Southern last year, but they were pretty damn solid and far better than any OOC team we played this season. so in that regard, it's tough to compare how we fared last year OOC vs this year.

but yeah, i agree with the general sentiment that overall i think 2015's team is better than 2014's team.

12/15/2015 5:11:15 PM

Quote :

"Oh...and we barely beat Georgia Southern."

This is possibly Dave Doeren's best win in three years...

Quote :

"You can't casually dismiss one or two extra losses to defend one guy if you are going to justify dismissing another one for the exact same reason."

Exactly. 7-5 and a loss to UNC got TOB canned when had won 8, and 9 the two years before.

12/15/2015 11:46:19 PM

^But TOB had nothing returning the season after that and a recruiting class not worth anything

12/16/2015 12:03:25 AM

Our most success since Rivers was when we were led by a 3 star quarterback

I mean I'm not completely dismissing ratings of high school kids, though it's certainly not the gospel. But maybe some of the horrendous recruits that Doeren went winless with were better fits in TOB's system.

[Edited on December 16, 2015 at 12:15 AM. Reason : .]

12/16/2015 12:11:45 AM

^^Let's not forget when TOB was coaching we were playing UConn, East Carolina, Pitt, Cincinnati, a good South Florida, South Carolina OOC. The past two seasons DD was handed four wins. This is inflating his record even more. The toughest OOC opponent DD has faced was ECU in year one and Georgia Southern last year.

[Edited on December 16, 2015 at 12:19 AM. Reason : OOC schedules have been ridiculously easy. Would normally be 6-6 losing to a P5 team. ]

12/16/2015 12:18:41 AM

Well, the shit gets tougher next year, so it's not worth complaining about

12/16/2015 8:58:56 AM

Quote :

"The past two seasons DD was handed four wins. This is inflating his record even more. "

correct me if i'm wrong...but weren't 2013 and 2014 schedules pretty much already in place when DD came on. so we were very likely playing those same teams regardless of DD or TOB coaching.

12/16/2015 11:06:08 AM

didn't we also have to scramble to find replacements for a couple p-5 games?

12/16/2015 11:57:01 AM

^right...that was the case with the ODU home/home series. maybe other games as well...which, again, would've been the case regardless of the coach. i guess the point boozie was making was that DD's overall record may be inflated because of weak OOC. which, sure, i won't argue that. but that's not really DD's fault either...it's just what the schedule was.

12/16/2015 12:33:33 PM

I don't think anyone is blaming DD for the schedule. Just pointing out that our soft schedule has helped hide many of DDs flaws.

12/16/2015 2:05:26 PM

^yeah that's a fair statement. tbh, the weak schedule is probably a positive imo. at the end of the year if you finish 8-5 with a bowl win like last year (and possibly this year) nobody really remembers or cares that you didn't beat anybody. if you're trying to build and gain momentum, i think the goal is to have a high win total...and certainly we wanna win more than 7 games. but for where the program is i think the OOC schedule has been fine...except that it's boring for fans.

anyways, as has been mentioned...it's all moot now with ND and ECU on the schedule next year and the mandatory P5 OOC game going forward.

[Edited on December 16, 2015 at 2:17 PM. Reason : f]

12/16/2015 2:17:26 PM

Does ND count as the P5 OOC game?

12/16/2015 2:37:22 PM

^Yeah, I don't necessarily disagree with you. But a lot of people use our inflated record to demonstrate progress or compare his record to TOB (Doeren has the same number of wins without NFL QBs!!!1Juan!!!) without providing context, and that's totally misleading and prevents us from fairly assessing the direction of the program.

It's why people like me only focus on conference record, because really that's the best indicator of our progress, and it's been less than stellar.

12/16/2015 2:42:03 PM

^^^

Lol @ ECU

[Edited on December 16, 2015 at 3:28 PM. Reason : ]

12/16/2015 3:28:21 PM

Quote :

"It's why people like me only focus on conference record, because really that's the best indicator of our progress, and it's been less than stellar."

this

12/16/2015 6:42:46 PM

Quote :

"without providing context, and that's totally misleading and prevents us from fairly assessing the direction of the program."

How is just looking at conference record any different? It's not the same conference it was in TOB's era either

12/16/2015 7:26:26 PM

Quote :

" Lol @ ECU"

their no juggernaut but it's a hell of a lot better than odu, usa, troy, and eku

12/16/2015 10:15:45 PM

The issue with TOB and recruiting is when had a good team with Russell Wilson that won 9 games, including the Champs Sports Bowl, and wasn't able to build upon that momentum. In fact recruiting just got worse. We started that year 4-0 if I recall and people, myself included, were shocked we weren't getting as many recruits.

12/17/2015 7:49:23 AM

^^ "their"

12/17/2015 9:20:36 AM

why would you be shocked? Recruits don't care about starting 4-0 or one good season. Put 4 or 5 9-4, 10-3 type seasons up in a row and then recruits will start taking notice. You can't just have one good season or one hot start and expect recruits to come. We are NC State. We're gonna recruit somewhere between 25-40th in the rankings with a peak year in the teens every so often. We're gonna battle around bowl eligibility with a peak year with 9 or so wins every so often. Its been that way for 30+ years now. The only team that is considered an upper echelon team now that wasn't 30 years ago is Oregon and thats because they spent a bazillion dollars and are the home to Nike.

12/17/2015 9:23:54 AM

Baylor, Va Tech?

But I do agree we need to Beamer our way to becoming a top 25 program. That's our only chance.

12/17/2015 9:26:13 AM

forgot about Baylor, but they're in talent rich Texas where theres enough prospects to field Texas, A&M, TCU, Baylor, Oklahoma and Oklahoma State with dudes still left over.

12/17/2015 9:45:52 AM

Baylor's success is attributable to God's love

12/17/2015 9:48:57 AM

Quote :

"It's not the same conference it was in TOB's era either"

That's the saddest part about TOB's tenure. In his 6 years, the Atlantic was basically like the coastal this year. Put together a top 25 team and you win the division. And he couldn't do it once despite 5 years of NFL caliber QB play. Unfortunately Doeren could put together a team better than any of TOB's and still come in 3rd in the division.

12/17/2015 10:45:34 AM

But the depth during the TOB years was much tougher. He didn't have three cupcakes with BC, WF, and Syracuse. So if anything, wins were harder to come by.

12/17/2015 12:12:43 PM

lol at VT being a top echelon program.

if i was a betting man, i'd bet on them not ever again having the same sustained success they enjoyed under beamer until recent years.

blacksburg is not an easy place to recruit kids to.

12/17/2015 12:16:41 PM

Bttt

12/30/2015 4:07:09 PM

Glad DD had us ready to play today

Will be 0-16 after today's game against Power 5 teams with a winning record. Our program is a fucking joke.

12/30/2015 4:25:28 PM

Heart disease is the #1 killer in America. Doeren is just doing us a favor by making us apathetic to our football program. No Cardiac Pack = longer lifespan.

12/30/2015 4:29:43 PM

I know I said I'd wait until we suck next season to go all boobs vs TOB on him, but this game is making it difficult to wait

12/30/2015 4:31:50 PM

at this rate Doeren will set another prestigious record for this program, first team to be shut out in their bowl game this year

Chip Kelly plz

12/30/2015 4:38:04 PM

^woops

12/30/2015 5:09:37 PM

still getting clowned, but we all know you're ok with that because blah blah seniors blah blah system

12/30/2015 5:11:31 PM

Good job having them prepared DD. Only down 31-14 at the half and they get the ball first in the 2nd half. 0-16 against good teams in 3 years. Way to fucking go...

12/30/2015 5:14:34 PM

Anything better than what hes done would be a miracle

12/30/2015 5:16:31 PM

^^^I think there are merits to what E Man has said about lack of depth, TOB's final class being so awful and that impacting this year's team still. But the team also looks unprepared and completely out of sorts. Somewhat understandable on the defensive end. Prescott is really good and they are, frankly, better than we are. But even our O looks out of sort and outside of 2 plays, they've been pretty dang bad. Maybe part of that is on the weather. No Dayes, Shad, and Gallaspy is certainly not helping. But not giving Samuels the ball till mid-way of the 2nd Q and not giving Grinnage any looks is pretty bad. That kinda thing falls on the coaching staff IMO

tldr, I agree with E Man's premise. But today is very discouraging in terms of preparedness and play calling.

[Edited on December 30, 2015 at 5:19 PM. Reason : H]

12/30/2015 5:18:57 PM

Fuck you, you piece of shit. You should be fired, fire Debbie. Hit the reset button

12/30/2015 6:27:27 PM