^^

Quote :

"What recruits do you think we'll be getting if we keep losing games."

Wake forest was at the bottom of the conference last year. They pulled in the #1 recruiting class despite that and despite their coach dying. Now they are a top 10 team.

You either don't know anything about basketball or you came in here predetermined to whine about shit regardless of reality.

[Edited on January 24, 2009 at 6:41 PM. Reason : .]

1/24/2009 6:40:01 PM

exactly. Shit, Favors is going to fucking Georgia Tech. Wins don't mean everything in regards to recruiting.

[Edited on January 24, 2009 at 6:52 PM. Reason : \/ you are such a fucking douche bag]

1/24/2009 6:46:37 PM

we got jipped! if Wake finished last in the conference, how did they get to play in the Big10 Challenge?!?!?

typical NC State getting dicked over

1/24/2009 6:46:48 PM

Quote :

"still credible. our players on the other hand..."

Haha yeah it's all the players fault.

Early in the year it was all we need a PG....now Degand is playing pretty solid and yet we are still losing.

Free throws and rebounding were terrible today....

1/24/2009 7:07:57 PM

blame for today's game goes all around.

1/24/2009 7:09:04 PM

Quote :

"You guys realize that bad players or not, Sid's inability to get them playing well is going to get either him fired (lolno) or drag our program to Les Robinson depths."

We're there, brother.

Sid is 10-27 (.271 winning %) in the ACC regular season - thank GOD for Va Tech.
Les was 27-64 (.297 winning %) in the ACC regular season

1/24/2009 9:59:10 PM

^^^^Because they didnt finish last, we did.

1/24/2009 10:09:00 PM

Quote :

"Free throws and rebounding were terrible today...."

free throws and rebounding is most certainly on the players. you can coach technique all you want, but it's up to the players to execute and have the heart and desire to outwork the opponent.

pg problems were our big issue in the beginning and what do you know, we have seen some improvements with them. we need to see some leadership from our seniors though, that's still a toss up. they need to set the tone and they've been very inconsistent for us. i just wanna see one game where all three of them are giving it their all on every single possession.

1/24/2009 11:23:14 PM

pg play was better in that they didn't fuck up as much. They still couldnt check tyrese rice (then again, not many can), and they didn't really set up plays. Our offense was not efficient at all, which is a reflection of bad PG play. When ben was bricking everything, we needed to run different sets to get out of that funk. Guys getting beaten on the perimeter caused our bigs to get into foul trouble, which was a big factor.

[Edited on January 25, 2009 at 12:14 AM. Reason : .]

1/25/2009 12:13:04 AM

Quote :

"^ people always say shit like that, like there's some alternative. like we're supposed to get out and make a difference or something. you're not entitled to basketball wins, grow up."

No, we're entitled to championships which is why Herb wasn't good enough.

1/25/2009 4:16:00 AM

^ there's nothing wrong w/ not being satisfied with herb. he wasn't doing anything special. but when things are down, there's nothing wrong w/ saying 'wait for next year'. you have to. it's just a game.

1/25/2009 11:22:26 AM

the fact that we continue to talk about the Herb era as if he just left speaks just how desperate our basketball program is right now.

Talk about Sid...and hell, talk about who you would want to coach here. But for fucks sake, stop talking about former coaches like they are coming back.

Les Robinson had a better win % than Sid, I don't see everyone sucking his balls too.

Move on people. This is part of the reason our fan base sucks dick. We are stuck in yesteryear.

It's not 74' nor is it 83'. We haven't gotten past the sweet 16 since 198fucking3.

I don't know about you, but I've gotten to the point where I understand what we are. A shitty athletic program. Football is on the right path, but basketball won't be until Lee and his cronies leave town.

1/25/2009 11:41:42 AM

Quote :

"he wasn't doing anything special. but when things are down, there's nothing wrong w/ saying 'wait for next year'. you have to. it's just a game."

And there is NOTHING wrong with criticizing Lowe. The facts are he is worse in the ACC right now than Les Robinson was and much worse than Herb Sendek was. This is a big money program and should be treated as such.

Now, I don't want him to be fired. I think it would be counterproductive. But I have NO problems with anyone who thinks he is in over his head and thinks options should be looked at. I'm sick and tired of people (not you) calling others "fucking idiots" because they aren't happy with Lowe.

Quote :

"vIt's not 74' nor is it 83'. We haven't gotten past the sweet 16 since 198fucking3. "

Didn't we make the Elite 8 and lose to Georgetown on that wack travel call in like '89?

---------------

And frankly, I don't think we are even CLOSE to competing. I watch teams like Wake, Duke, UNC, Louisville, Syracuse, Pitt, etc on a daily basis and they have bench depth that is better than any single player we can put on the floor 1-10. A ~20th ranked recruiting class next year coupled with the loss of Costner, Fells and McCauley ain't going to put his in the upper half of the ACC. My HOPES are pinned on two years from now.

[Edited on January 25, 2009 at 12:47 PM. Reason : x]

1/25/2009 12:46:10 PM

Quote :

"And there is NOTHING wrong with criticizing Lowe. The facts are he is worse in the ACC right now than Les Robinson was and much worse than Herb Sendek was. This is a big money program and should be treated as such. Now, I don't want him to be fired. I think it would be counterproductive. But I have NO problems with anyone who thinks he is in over his head and thinks options should be looked at. I'm sick and tired of people (not you) calling others "fucking idiots" because they aren't happy with Lowe."

i agree for the most part, although i don't think he should be fired either, b/c it would indeed be counterproductive. i said that in response to

Quote :

"battle cry for NC State fans wait till next year... when the new recruits get here!"

1/25/2009 12:57:37 PM

Quote :

"The facts are he is worse in the ACC right now than Les Robinson was and much worse than Herb Sendek was"

I haven't been following this thread reguarly recently, but i wanted to address the above comment.

It took Herb 6 seasons to make it the NCAA tourney. In the five seasons leading up to his first tournament appearance, he was 4-12, 5-11, 6-10, 6-10, and 5-11, in chronological order.

In Sid's first two seasons, he's been 5-11 and 4-12.

So how can anyone say that it's a fact that Sid is much worse than Herb was in the ACC? That sounds much more like an opinion than a fact. We'll need to wait several more seasons before we can make that sort of assessment.

[Edited on January 25, 2009 at 1:14 PM. Reason : ]

[Edited on January 25, 2009 at 1:17 PM. Reason : ]

1/25/2009 1:08:53 PM

called out.

1/25/2009 1:12:00 PM

Quote :

"So how can you say that it's a fact that Sid is much worse than Herb was in the ACC? That sounds much more like an opinion than a fact."

Because it is a fact.

Facts are verifiable. You can go to gopack.com and look up the records in the ACC. In fact, I'll do it for you.

Lowe: 10-27 (.271)
Robinson: 27-64 (.297)
Sendek: 72-88 (.450)

I'm not in the business of making predictions and I never said he couldn't improve upon his dismal start. Just stating a fact that, so far, he has been worse than both Les and Herb.

[Edited on January 25, 2009 at 1:17 PM. Reason : ^ not really.. I mean is what I posted not fact?]

1/25/2009 1:16:09 PM

Quote :

"Facts are verifiable."

I realize that, which is why i posted the wins/losses for the separate seasons.

You think comparing Herb's entire career against Sid's first two seasons is a fair comparison?

Once again:

Quote :

"It took Herb 6 seasons to make it the NCAA tourney. In the five seasons leading up to his first tournament appearance, he was 4-12, 5-11, 6-10, 6-10, and 5-11, in chronological order. In Sid's first two seasons, he's been 5-11 and 4-12. "

Herb was 4-12 and 5-11 his first two seasons. Sid was 5-11 and 4-12. Not much of a difference there. And in his fifth season, Herb still ended at 5-11.

You can't take Herb's 10 years and compare them to Sid's two and a half seasons and make the claim that "Sid is a much worse coach than Herb in the ACC". Not credibly, at least.

[Edited on January 25, 2009 at 1:24 PM. Reason : ]

1/25/2009 1:22:53 PM

Yes you can. I didn't attempt to draw any conclusions or make any future predictions. Just posted the numbers.

Is Lowe's overall ACC winning % right now better or worse than Les? Sendek? Yes or no?

I'd have no problems saying the sample is too small for Lowe to be reliable. That's fine. And probably true. But nothing I posted is opinion, like you said.

Quote :

""Sid is a much worse coach than Herb in the ACC". "

Good lord, I didn't say he was a "much worse coach." THAT would be an opinion. I said, and I quote:

Quote :

"he is worse in the ACC right now than Les Robinson was and much worse than Herb Sendek was."

I think anyone with any comprehension would understand that I am talking numbers/winning % here, especially since the post before that one, I posted the % numbers.

[Edited on January 25, 2009 at 1:28 PM. Reason : x]

1/25/2009 1:26:08 PM

It's funny, if you go back and read the first page of the thread, rallydurham's main point is still valid.

Bad substitutions at bad times.

[Edited on January 25, 2009 at 1:31 PM. Reason : .]

1/25/2009 1:30:59 PM

its not a fair comparison unless you only include les' and herb's record and % from their first 37 or 38 games or however many sid has coached

1/25/2009 1:32:43 PM

Quote :

"Herb was 4-12 and 5-11 his first two seasons. Sid was 5-11 and 4-12. Not much of a difference there. And in his fifth season, Herb still ended at 5-11."

Number of top 100 recruits Herb had: 0

Number of top 100 recruits Sid had: 6 (Costner, Fells, McCauley, Grant, Hickson, Smith)

You can't compare the two.

[Edited on January 25, 2009 at 1:40 PM. Reason : forgot Grant was top 100 too]

1/25/2009 1:34:09 PM

Well, fine. I actually partly agree with that, though Les' is skewed because he took over a pretty damn good program with a NBA player or two on his roster (opinion). I imagine, without looking it up, Les blows both Lowe and Sendek away (fact if I verified it). He must be the best coach of the 3 (opinion).

But, it's foolish to call what I posted an opinion.

1/25/2009 1:35:27 PM

^Come on man, I said saying

Quote :

"The facts are he is worse in the ACC right now than Les Robinson was and much worse than Herb Sendek was."

is an opinion. Comparing their first two seasons, they've performed almost the exact same. Wait til Sid's 5th or 6th year (if people give him a chance) before making such a bold statement.

[Edited on January 25, 2009 at 2:01 PM. Reason : you said right now]

1/25/2009 1:35:32 PM

Quote :

"Number of top 100 recruits Herb had: 0 Number of top 100 recruits Sid had: 5 (Costner, Fells, McCauley, Hickson, Smith)"

to be fair, lowe got two of those.

1/25/2009 1:37:56 PM

^and to be fair, Herb was still going 5-11 in his fifth season.

How many top100 recruits had he pulled by then?

1/25/2009 1:43:51 PM

hey man you don't have to tell me, i'd put money that i hate herb more than anyone here.

1/25/2009 1:47:12 PM

sounds like its time for a good, old fashioned

HATE OFF



[Edited on January 25, 2009 at 1:50 PM. Reason : i'll start first. I fucking HATE this thread.]

1/25/2009 1:50:14 PM

Quote :

"Lowe: 10-27 (.271)"

that's a decent batting average

1/25/2009 1:51:13 PM

^^ i don't mind the thread, i just wish people would calm down. we're in no position to fire the guy right now, and on top of that he deserves at least four years.

1/25/2009 1:54:39 PM

still shitty

1/25/2009 1:56:12 PM

Quote :

"sounds like its time for a good, old fashioned HATE OFF"

I'll go. I hate that people keep bringing Herb into the argument. He did no better than Sidney is doing now. He had losing seasons his first 5 seasons and didn't make it to the tourney until the sixth season (the year Hodge came in, iirc) (and Herb had already been a college head coach for 3 seasons at Miami (Oh) before taking the reins at State)

I also hate that people expected Sid to be in the tournament already with all the obstacles he's faced that have been discussed throughout this thread.

I also hate that people decided to hate Sid off-the-bat because they were pissed with Fowler's hiring debacle and continue to hold the grudge.



[Edited on January 25, 2009 at 2:23 PM. Reason : ]

1/25/2009 2:08:11 PM

this thread is bananas

i'll quit TWW if it hits 100 pages



and I'm getting pretty sick and tired of all the racism too. grow up!

1/25/2009 2:13:55 PM

so is this your new thing? you just post ridiculous shit?

1/25/2009 2:17:12 PM

that was a good hate, Bullet.

who's next?

1/25/2009 2:18:19 PM

My turn.

Quote :

"I also hate that people expected Sid to be in the tournament already with all the obstacles he's faced that have been discussed throughout this thread."

Speaking for myself, and probably all the other "fucking idiot trolls", I don't expect him to be in the tourney, but I would expect us not to be the shittiest team (debatable, maybe the second shittiest) in the ACC by the third year.

1/25/2009 2:20:25 PM

So long as you keep expectations lowe, everything is all good with NCSU basketball.

1/25/2009 2:26:20 PM

see, I like you better when you explain yourself fully, OhBoyeee.

I, too, would rather us not be the shitstain of the conference.

1/25/2009 2:29:10 PM

^^I don't think anybody's arguing that "everything is all good with NCSU basketball." We've had some very sub-par performances and it's frustrating. But it's Sid's 3rd season as a college coach, and there's no denying that the players have a lot to do with the sub-par performances.

(V to clarify, I'm in now way laying the blame solely or even mostly on the players. But I don't think there's much Sidney can do about seniors making unforced turnovers by dribbling off their feet, several time in one game, or juniors still throwing pump fakes on completely wide open 3s. If they're still doing that, no coach is going to be able to correct it.)

But too many people set their expectations way too high without taking reality into account.

Quote :

"i'll quit TWW if it hits 100 pages"

[Edited on January 25, 2009 at 2:42 PM. Reason : Is that a promise? because there's no doubt that it's gonna happen ]

[Edited on January 25, 2009 at 2:44 PM. Reason : ]

1/25/2009 2:31:26 PM

i'm really getting tired of people blaming the players.

i am all for giving lowe more time, but this is college basketball. it all comes to the coach.

1/25/2009 2:36:46 PM

Yeah, fuck the people who had the expectations of being a tournament team after being a tournament team year after year after year.

1/25/2009 2:38:43 PM

thats incentive to get it to 100

1/25/2009 2:38:48 PM

^^ you left off another "...after year after year"

1/25/2009 2:47:05 PM

the thing about that is, it's really all the same. w/ herb we didn't win the games we wanted to win and didn't do anything in the tournament. now we don't win the games we want to win and we don't make the tournament.

what's the difference? seriously.

1/25/2009 2:48:30 PM

Because there's no draft. There's no penalty for being mediocre.

We're not getting the #1 pick out of high school for blowing ass.

1/25/2009 2:50:53 PM

thanks for clarifying.

1/25/2009 2:51:40 PM

in all seriousness, there is no difference between making the Tourney and not making it

1/25/2009 2:53:06 PM

I am assuming this is the sarcastic part of the thread

1/25/2009 3:03:35 PM

there's a difference, but not a significant one.

[Edited on January 25, 2009 at 3:06 PM. Reason : at least to me. i know it means the world to ncstatetke and packboozie.]

1/25/2009 3:05:59 PM

There's a huge difference between making the tournament as the #4 team in the ACC (which is where we were) and missing the tournament as the #12 team in the ACC (which is where we are).

1/25/2009 3:10:13 PM