Carb-free isn't for everyone though. A few warnings:

1) Your breath will smell godawful from the ketones
2) Be careful about your digestion. When you cut out sources of dietary fiber, your digestive tract may suffer. Drink tons of water!
3) Take vitamin supplements. When you cut out fruits and veggies, you're cutting out some important vitamins that make your skin, hair and nails stay healthy.
4) Eat healthy fats. Too much protein can be rough on your kidneys, as LunaK said. So remember that healthy fats will be an easy way to get extra calories.

That said, I'm glad I'm not insulin resistant. I love carbs too much.

8/16/2011 6:49:19 AM

Quote :

"So you are saying she should start causing her body to produce an acid that is going to start out eating her fat and eventually get down to the muscle? Once you start your body into ketoacidosis mode"

Dear god. Ketoacidosis != normal ketosis

I don't know why people are so terrified of ketosis. It's a natural, healthy response to lack of carbs, including times when you are fasting (fasting is commonly used as a health therapy, kids). Ketogenic diets are extremely effective at treating obesity and epilepsy. And they, potentially, have applications in a wide range of neurological disorders (alzheimer's, parkinson's, etc.) and cancer.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2716748/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2898565/

And actually, I was getting mixed up on the last page where I said the brain can only run off glucose. Apparently, it can use up to 75% ketones as fuel. The rest of the body can use both fatty acids and ketones.

Regarding relatively long term effects, the following is a quote from the above study:

Quote :

"Administering a ketogenic diet for a relatively longer period of time did not produce any significant side effects in the patients. Therefore, the present study confirms that it is safe to use a ketogenic diet for a longer period of time than previously demonstrated."

I'm not saying everyone should be on a ketogenic diet (I have no interest in it currently), but when it's a totally normal process that turns out to improve a slew of different conditions.... why the sheer terror?

A few additional thoughts on carbs:
-If you're going to go on a very low carb diet, it is well known that there is an adaptation period of 2-3 weeks where you may have brain fog. You've been warned.
-Paleo is carb agnostic. You can do zero carb, low carb, moderate carb, or high carb.
-Since the last 50 years of mainstream nutrition has demonized fat, the last few years have seen the opposite response of demonizing carbs. I've been there; I've read books that have called carbs the devil and I believed it. I'm trying to grow up now. Low carb may be useful to repair a broken metabolism, but it doesn't mean it broke your metabolism in the first place.

Quote :

"On the 2 days I carbed up, the first carb meal would put me to sleep instantly from the insulin shock and I would spend more time sleeping than awake during the recarb process."

I've heard it rumored that this may be due to a serotonin spike (carbs increase serotonin) more than anything.

[Edited on August 16, 2011 at 8:12 AM. Reason : asdfasdf]

8/16/2011 8:00:05 AM

I think the whole point is that are very few people here who need push their bodies into keto. Sure it's helpful for obese people and epileptics... and for people who want to get super unnaturally thin for bodybuilding/photoshoots whatever. I doubt too many people fall into these categories... this is how Matt got poo pooed onfor the adderall comment- know your audience.



[Edited on August 16, 2011 at 8:27 AM. Reason : Posting from thypod sucks man]



[Edited on August 16, 2011 at 8:31 AM. Reason : 2-3 weeks of brain fog? Eep really?]

8/16/2011 8:25:17 AM

sucks that this thread wasn't/isn't as civil as last year's thread

8/16/2011 8:35:46 AM

Quote :

"sucks that this thread wasn't/isn't as civil as last year's thread"

How soon we forget...

God was the big asshole in last year's thread. One of the main reasons he quit t-dub was because of last year's thread I believe (and something else that I can't remember).

8/16/2011 8:41:09 AM

It's not that bad I don't think

8/16/2011 8:41:55 AM

I agree that very few need to be in ketosis. I think the context of that conversation, though, was that elise tried out a low carb diet and didn't get past the first 2 weeks.

I believe eleusis was pointing out that you need to get past the first few weeks to overcome the initial hump (of lethargy/brain fog) and give it a fair shot.

Then we get into "ketosis is a flesh eating acid" and sorry guys, I had to say something.

You know, if anyone is a potential candidate for benefiting from a low carb diet it's someone with insulin resistance, which elise started this dialogue by mentioning that she had. Insulin resistance means you, by definition, cannot process carbs very well.

Quote :

"2-3 weeks of brain fog? Eep really?"

Not everyone, but it happens. What pisses me off is when scientists do short-term studies (of exactly 3 weeks) and say that low carb reduces cognitive performance.

I don't know what a thighpod is, but it sounds hawt.

Quote :

"sucks that this thread wasn't/isn't as civil as last year's thread"

Who are you referring to?

8/16/2011 8:43:08 AM

Quote :

"God was the big asshole in last year's thread. One of the main reasons he quit t-dub was because of last year's thread I believe (and something else that I can't remember)."

i guess i don't remember him being a jerk

Quote :

"It's not that bad I don't think"

i guess i'm just more observant of the frequent "you obviously have no idea what you're talking about" mentality that posters are bringing to the thread. i guess that's frequent everywhere though.

c'est la vie. :shrug:

8/16/2011 8:59:50 AM

Quote :

"Who are you referring to?"

Most likely you...

Quote :

"The idea is to emulate the diet of the last TWO MILLION FUCKING YEARS. But gee. Is it sustainable in the long run? Anybody's guess... "

8/16/2011 9:05:05 AM

That specific question irks me and I have a hard time not going off the rails.

I was just being snarky, not trying to offend anyone. If I did, I'm truly sorry.

Quote :

"i guess i'm just more observant of the frequent "you obviously have no idea what you're talking about" mentality that posters are bringing to the thread. i guess that's frequent everywhere though."

I don't think anyone should be ridiculed, but we shouldn't treat misinformation lightly either.

8/16/2011 9:13:15 AM

^ and i agree with your second statement.

people who are trying to get in shape and who are trying to get healthy are self-conscious enough about it to begin with (believe me i know) and when people come into this thread and start spouting off how wrong they are and not being constructive - it leads people to not want to use this thread. it was SO helpful last summer to a lot of people, including myself, and unfortunately this year it hasn't been as effective.

(and you're certainly not the worst offender by any stretch)

8/16/2011 9:16:43 AM

Quote :

"That specific question irks me and I have a hard time not going off the rails."

It obviously didn't offend me because I didn't even ask the question...

But on the surface, to someone who hasn't done a lot of research, I think you can understand how someone can initially look at the paleo diet as being very "extreme." Try and put on the kid gloves next time and you'll probably get a better response. Whereas your initial reaction would probably make someone ignore you or not take you seriously.

[Edited on August 16, 2011 at 9:33 AM. Reason : .]

8/16/2011 9:25:21 AM

Quote :

"God was the big asshole in last year's thread. One of the main reasons he quit t-dub was because of last year's thread I believe (and something else that I can't remember)."

LOL God didn't quit because of what he said in last year's beachbody thread. he quit because of the something else you can't remember

8/16/2011 9:28:22 AM

^ He was still very butthurt over the criticism he got in last year's thread.

I'm just sayin..... it didn't help the matter.

8/16/2011 9:33:32 AM

hahaha oh i know, i'm not trying to argue about it. he has the personality where he thinks he is right before anyone else.

8/16/2011 9:37:31 AM

I, who LunaK would probably label as "the biggest offender," have a hard time with you guys' criticism. For the most part, I've read a bunch of stuff in this thread that doesn't really relate to having a beach body. And the people who have been giving the soundest advice on getting said body are ridiculed for being out of sync with the thread.

That's some planet fitness reverse type hypocritical nonsense right there. For men, running will not enhance your beach body. Nor will pilates make you as fit as a boxer or linebacker. Too many people in here get butt hurt by those who offer what has worked for them and others. If you'd rather not heed said advice, don't. But don't let your envy and hate show through because you are not reaching your fitness and beach body goals from lifting one day a week and over training cardio.

*note: LunaK more thinks I'm a troll than a passer of bad advice. There is a difference.

8/16/2011 10:37:22 AM

.

[Edited on August 16, 2011 at 10:45 AM. Reason : ]

8/16/2011 10:40:45 AM

There are many types of "fitness.". A beach body, to me, is somebody who looks like a jacked Mr Olympia with no shirt on.

^Please adhere to any workout you like. They're on here. But those just aren't for me.

8/16/2011 10:46:50 AM

1. maximus you would be correct. hence the creation of another thread for you to go converse with people who are specifically looking for bodybuilding NOT just to get in shape.

2. your commentary alone is why so many people don't post in this thread.

3.

Quote :

"And the people who have been giving the soundest advice on getting said body are ridiculed for being out of sync with the thread. "

who are you saying that are giving the most sound advice who are getting ridiculed? the only two people that I've seen people jump on for their comments were Matt getting jumped on for encouraging people to take adderall as a tool for weight loss. And then eleusis for the keteo thing which i have no understanding of.

Quote :

"For men, running will not enhance your beach body."

what the fuck is your definition of a beach body?? i seriously don't understand why you would think that men who run won't enhance their body. of course they will. if they do that and nothing else, will they bulk? no. but that's not what everyone is looking for.

everyone has their own definition of what their "beach body" is and you consistently come into this thread assuming everyone is at your level. well guess what, not everyone is. there are some in this forum that could outlift you there are some that are just starting out.

and i do actually think you're a passer of bad advice when you don't seem to consider your audience when giving out said advice.

i see what your definition is.. that's fantastic for you but that's not necessarily the point of this thread for everyone. \]

8/16/2011 10:49:07 AM

Quote :

"For the most part, I've read a bunch of stuff in this thread that doesn't really relate to having a beach body."

I don't think everyone in here can realistically have a "beach body" (at least not in the time frame of a year, which is how long these threads last each year). Some people can, but the majority of people come in here with basic nutrition and work out questions. Since everyone has different body types and their bodies react differently to certain foods and supplements, there are many specific questions that people are looking for answers too. Not everything is specific to a "beach body."

Quote :

"I, who LunaK would probably label as "the biggest offender," have a hard time with you guys' criticism."

Sounds like you are just as sensitive as the people you are pointing the finger at.

Quote :

"And the people who have been giving the soundest advice on getting said body are ridiculed for being out of sync with the thread. "

No...they are being ridiculed for giving advice in a condescending manner (and that's putting in generously). This is the Lounge...not Chit Chat. You can give advice in a way that will be more receptive instead of trying to make someone feel like an idiot.

Quote :

"For men, running will not enhance your beach body."

It does if you combine it with proper weight training.

Quote :

"But don't let your envy and hate show through because you are not reaching your fitness and beach body goals from lifting one day a week and over training cardio. "

I think you'll find very few posters envy you. The people who want to be as big and strong as you and eleusis are few and far between. And that's not a dig. I respect the hell out of your work ethic in the gym and commitment to reaching certain goals. But I think even your goals go beyond the "beach body" that most people seek. That's why this thread was made:

message_topic.aspx?topic=615169

And whatever happened to this:

Quote :

"I no longer use this thread. Go to the bb thread."

????????

8/16/2011 10:51:31 AM

changes in latitude changes in attitude

It's the "in" season now. Fitness is more important than sheer numbers in lifting at this point in the year.

8/16/2011 11:01:10 AM

Quote :

"I think you'll find very few posters envy you. The people who want to be as big and strong as you and eleusis are few and far between. And that's not a dig. I respect the hell out of your work ethic in the gym and commitment to reaching certain goals. But I think even your goals go beyond the "beach body" that most people seek. "

QFT

8/16/2011 11:01:48 AM

Haven't really read this thread, but I thought the point of it was to help motivate people to get into better shape. Lots more bad advice and negativity than I would have expected. Wait, this is TWW. Nevermind

8/16/2011 11:03:56 AM

maximus will become even more annoyed with me once I jump on the Crossfit bandwagon...

8/16/2011 11:03:58 AM

imho

beach body = a body you wouldn't be embarrassed to be seen on the beach with

8/16/2011 11:04:20 AM

I haven't read all of this thread, and I will say that maximus's definitions and viewpoints can be a little skewed and absurd, but the rest of you are kinda throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Even if you don't desire a non-tested, pro-division bodybuilder's physique, some of the general principles of training are the same. In short, most of you who don't know shit would be well served to listen to his advice...and on the flipside, maximus shouldn't be so fucking hardheaded with his attitude of "you're nobody if you aren't on the cover of Muscle & Fitness", and tailor his advice to the goals of his audience, without the condescension towards people who don't necessarily want to have striated butt cheeks and sweat dianabol.

8/16/2011 11:08:49 AM

Quote :

"Even if you don't desire a non-tested, pro-division bodybuilder's physique, some of the general principles of training are the same. In short, most of you who don't know shit would be well served to listen to his advice"

I honestly think most people would listen to him if he wasn't such an asshole about it (which you did cover in the 2nd half of your post).

There aren't many people here saying that he doesn't know what he's talking about it. They just don't like being talked down to.

8/16/2011 11:17:23 AM

what i see him saying, more and more, is that if you're not doing the training his way, then it's the wrong way.

saying that a man shouldn't run because it doesn't get him the "beach body" isn't productive for the person who's trying to increase their overall level of fitness.

i have no doubt that maximus knows about varying techniques on lifting, squating, etc but for those who aren't yet to that level, it's not helpful and can come off as very condescending.

8/16/2011 11:18:46 AM

Ok...I do have to say that I trust for the most part anything eleusis brings to the table. I did not say anything that I hope would offend him because I believe he genuinely cares for people's beach bodies. Sorry for coming across as a bitch, eleusis.

This part is not directed towards eleusis:
I just got a little heated because I am a type I diabetic and I have been so for most of my life. As far as not listening to doctors...you are fucking insane and I will not take that shitty advice. Doctors have saved my life with their advice on almost every occasion. Ketones are acids the body produces when it is severely lacking energy from normal calories and carbs.

[Edited on August 16, 2011 at 11:41 AM. Reason : they are water in form but the body uses them in a different way]

8/16/2011 11:25:45 AM

Quote :

"How often is anyone in a sitting position and needs to raise both legs with the shins/ankles bearing the weight? "

well maximus, research brazilian Jiu jitsu and you may find this position called the butterfly guard where you do just that to get a persons body weight off of you, not to mention they are resisting.

8/16/2011 11:33:44 AM

Quote :

"I just got a little heated because I am a type I diabetic and I have been so for most of my life. As far as not listening to doctors...you are fucking insane and I will not take that shitty advice. Ketones are like acids the body produces when it is severely lacking energy from normal calories."

As a type I diabetic, you absolutely have to watch out for ketoacidosis. But I don't really appreciate you implying that the same applies to everyone else. That's misinformation and fear mongering.

As I already tried to explain (maybe I wasn't clear?) ketosis is a normal metabolic process in healthy individuals. I'm not a doctor, but my understanding is that type II diabetics are perfectly fine with ketosis and may actually benefit from it. And since this discussion started with advice given to elise, I don't see the problem.

Quote :

"Ketones are like acids the body produces when it is severely lacking energy from normal calories and carbs."

Fat and protein are normal calories. I have no idea what you're trying to say here.

Quote :

"As far as not listening to doctors...you are fucking insane and I will not take that shitty advice."

Ouch. I wasn't the one who brought this up, but I'll comment anyway. Definitely listen to doctors. But don't think they know everything either. Most doctors only have a few hours of education on nutrition (and what they're receiving is probably out of date or biased). Anyone with the time and interest can research these topics for themselves and outdo that fairly quickly.

Oh, I just went and reread exactly what MattJMM2 said. He said don't take doctor's advice as gospel (pretty much what I'm saying). He never said not to listen to them. I hardly see why this would be a controversial statement.

[Edited on August 16, 2011 at 11:47 AM. Reason : asdfadsf]

8/16/2011 11:42:04 AM

I've gotten a little off track the past couple days but I have hot yoga/pilates mix tonight and will run tomorrow morning.

It's so easy to make excuses, like ohhh I'm tired today I don't need to get out and run

8/16/2011 11:49:27 AM

that wasn't directed at EuroTitToss


it doesn't apply to normal people but elise is insulin resistant. What I said applies to her.

8/16/2011 11:51:34 AM

For the first time in a long time I did an early morning run today. Trying to do it on a consistent basis because with my new work schedule it is going to be tough to work out in the afternoon, but it is really difficult for me to motivate myself to workout in the morning. Hopefully I can make it a habit. It really is nice to get it out of the way and not have to worry about it for the rest of the day.

8/16/2011 11:54:25 AM

everybody shut the hell up and let's get back to posting shirtless pics of dudes and samwise in a bikini

8/16/2011 11:55:48 AM

I did turbo kick again yesterday. That class just kicks my butt. I need to really make time for plain kickboxing because even though this class kicks my butt I still feel like I am cheating my form here.

I am doing belly dancing tonight. Anyone ever done that? I am a first timer.

[Edited on August 16, 2011 at 11:58 AM. Reason : grammar is not for me. ]

8/16/2011 11:55:53 AM

Begonias raises a valid point. Gisele booty!

8/16/2011 12:01:04 PM

^zomg thats a nice booty

8/16/2011 12:03:30 PM

Do you have to be more on the "naturally" skinny side and tall to look like that?

8/16/2011 12:03:35 PM

I think you have to be Brazilian to look like that.

8/16/2011 12:05:32 PM

yes, brazillian. SHIT. I sometimes wish I were brazillian.

8/16/2011 12:06:07 PM

lol

8/16/2011 12:06:24 PM

by the definition proposed by maximus that is not a beach body

8/16/2011 12:07:37 PM

^^^^^I think that plays a role... even though I'm tall (taller than Gisele actually ), it's unlikely that I would look like that.

even at my lowest weight (135# at 6'), I still had big muscular legs and my thighs still touched

8/16/2011 12:08:41 PM

normal people can't go into ketoacidosis. punchmonk, you can definitely go into ketoacidosis as a type I diabetic and for that reason you should be particularly wary of low-carb diets due to your body's inability to produce insulin and glucagon. Others don't have to worry about it like you do, but your doctor was correct in warning you of the dangers of ketoacidosis.

for a person that suffers from insulin resistance and early symptoms of Type II diabetes, such as elise and Samwise, low-carb diets are a great way to improve insulin sensitivity safely. Your problem isn't so much an inability to produce enough insulin, but rather an abnormal resistance in the cells of the body to respond to the insulin signal. Any doctor who still advises against low-carb diets is either misinformed or is scared of recommending a diet that is extremely complicated for the average person to balance on their own. I know that I cringe when I recommend low-carb dieting and it gets misconstrued as bacon and eggs or chicken wings for every meal, and unfortunately that is the conception most people have of low-carb dieting.

[Edited on August 16, 2011 at 1:35 PM. Reason : IIRC, ketoacidosis can lower the blood pH levels enough to stop the heart in a Type I. Scary Stuff]

8/16/2011 1:28:51 PM

I have no idea what is going on. All I know is that what I have been doing has kept me from gaining weight since I last lost it (at one point I was at 225 lbs, I'm resting comfortably at 175 right now). Since tailoring my diet to having the bulk of my carbs in the morning and gradually tapering down to zero carbs for dinner I have had more energy throughout the day, and it has been much easier to fall asleep and stay asleep, and I wake up rested and ready for the day. I also have much less night time heartburn if I cut out virtually all carbs after about 5pm.


Addition: The bulk of my carbs are whole grain, veggies, and fruits.

[Edited on August 16, 2011 at 1:38 PM. Reason : .]

8/16/2011 1:37:33 PM

FWIW, I agree with us who have IR needing a low carb diet. However, my endocrinologist made it clear not to cut them out completely. Also, those of us who have been pro doctors are referring to endocrinologists, who obviously have lots of training with these nutritional matters...

And for the snarky comment earlier - yes, insulin shock can send you to the hospital and can kill you. It is dangerous to put your body in that situation.

8/16/2011 1:45:48 PM

IMO, her booty is nice, but not that great.

It almost looks skinny-fat and there simply by low body fat and decent genes.



This is hotter.

8/16/2011 1:49:39 PM

Quote :

"I sometimes wish I were brazillian."

lol me too

8/16/2011 1:59:11 PM

Quote :

"I've gotten a little off track the past couple days but I have hot yoga/pilates mix tonight and will run tomorrow morning. It's so easy to make excuses, like ohhh I'm tired today I don't need to get out and run"

in the beginning its normal to have to push yourself a little bit more to get going but once you get into a groove it feels weird on days you don't work out

8/16/2011 2:18:25 PM