Nobody has done that, though. What thread are you reading?

3/2/2017 2:18:04 PM

Just a hack, trying to push a narrative through strawmen. It's hilariously sad, actually.

3/2/2017 2:21:05 PM

^^

Quote :

"the first ACA draft was available for weeks before even their first hearing this shitshow is all of the GOP making. rather than trying to fix and improve the ACA, they did their best to make it worse then for years lied to people about what would happened if it was repealed and promised to repeal it, then said they would repeal and replace and now its clear they don't have a good plan for how to replace it. republicans dug the pit, and republicans filled it with shit"

3/3/2017 12:01:16 PM

all true and accurate

3/3/2017 12:11:06 PM

Everything I'm reading is suggesting this newest healthcare plan is going to get absolutely savaged once it's CBO score comes back. Not that I expected anything else.

3/7/2017 6:14:44 AM

^^^ that isn't defending the law, though. It's defending the process.

I think maybe one or two people on here argue the law itself is perfect and we know that they have extreme biases and really aren't supported by the majority of us on here.

^ didn't fact check on this but I assume that is why House wants to vote so quick. In any case it's DOA in Senate with a half dozen GOP senators in expansion states.

[Edited on March 7, 2017 at 8:08 AM. Reason : X]

3/7/2017 8:06:51 AM

this GOP plan confirms that they never had a plan to improve things for most americans

3/7/2017 8:15:26 AM

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/839108868584124417

Don't worry guys, phase 2 and 3 are coming.

Seems well planned out to me. Yep. Definitely not throwing shit against wall and seeing if it sticks.

3/7/2017 8:45:27 AM

Republicans show once again that they aren't actually able to govern a nation; all they can do is obstruct and say "no" to things but can't offer solutions themselves.

3/7/2017 9:06:42 AM

Let's see, this bill prevents insurers from denying coverage to those with pre-existing conditions. It allows people up to age 26 stay on their parent's plans. It has a penalty for not maintaining coverage. It has tax credits or "subsidies" for buying insurance on the individual market. Sounds similar to something else.......

[Edited on March 7, 2017 at 10:48 AM. Reason : .]

3/7/2017 10:48:03 AM

^I wish I knew more about the health care situation. But essentially, what you're saying is it's fairly identical to the Affordable Care Act, right? (I HATE when people call it Obamacare)

3/7/2017 10:50:05 AM

Well it begs the question, if this is something that conservatives or Republicans are happy with, exactly what part of Obamacare didn't they like? Because based on this bill it's:

- taxes on rich people
- it helped poor people too much
- Obama

[Edited on March 7, 2017 at 10:53 AM. Reason : .]

3/7/2017 10:52:57 AM

I hazard a guess that it had to do more with principles such as the government requiring you to purchase a product (the individual mandate) and tax refunds/credits versus whatever else it was.

I really shouldn't opine without knowing more but I honestly think that if this is all that was changed, this had everything to do with verbiage rather than the fundamentals.

Which is infuriating in and of itself because of the manner in which they attacked it.

3/7/2017 10:56:47 AM

-999999999 credibility

3/7/2017 10:59:03 AM

Quote :

"Well it begs the question, if this is something that conservatives or Republicans are happy with, exactly what part of Obamacare didn't they like? Because based on this bill it's: - taxes on rich people"

Ding ding ding!

3/7/2017 12:13:32 PM

[Edited on March 7, 2017 at 1:26 PM. Reason : http://heritageaction.com/press-releases/gop-plan-fails-move-past-obamacares-progressive-promise/]

3/7/2017 1:26:09 PM

^so Heritage coming out against it basically kills it pretty quickly, doesn't it?

That press release sucks: Zombie Ronnie Rayguns says "it still taxes the rich and helps poors, not conservative, not enuff freedumb."

3/7/2017 5:14:00 PM

His healthcare thing is pretty hilarious. This could not have gone down in a more amusing way for me.

3/7/2017 8:24:37 PM

In all the summaries of the bill I did not see a section about selling insurance across state lines. I guess they went with survival of the richest over free markets.

[Edited on March 7, 2017 at 10:02 PM. Reason : .]

3/7/2017 10:01:29 PM

i will offer to write a bill for them:

this bill fully repeals the ACA. healthcare is a state issue. holler at your state representative for more info

[Edited on March 7, 2017 at 10:09 PM. Reason : r]

3/7/2017 10:08:01 PM

Rand Paul needs to whoop some RINO ass

[Edited on March 7, 2017 at 10:20 PM. Reason : rhino]

3/7/2017 10:19:59 PM

I gotta say, I'm a little surprised at the "conservative" reaction to Ryancare. You've got Trump holding campaign rallies promising the world on healthcare, and you've got "conservatives" getting screamed down at town halls. By people afraid they are going to lose healthcare. In both cases "conservatives" nodded along about how they were gonna have a system that still kept a lot of people insured. Anyone with two brain cells snapping together recognizes that is going to require some kind of subsidy, private insurance is just unaffordable. Oh and hasn't every previous "conservative" healthcare plan contained some kind of subsidy for buying private insurance?

Then leadership produces this plan with underfunded, half-assed subsidies (actually a tax credit/tax cut, conservatives should love it even more) and they're all screaming RINO and TRAITOR at foxnews on their teevees. Ummm, how did you not see these tax credits coming? It's like they won't be happy unless private insurance is impossible to buy and maximum pain is inflicted on the working poor, oh and more tax cuts for the rich.

3/8/2017 7:08:50 AM

^the reason private insurance is unaffordable is a direct result of govt intervention not allowing markets to work. we would be WAY better off if treated the problem like we do with problem of people not being able afford food. just pay for the care of indigent people and stay the hell out of how the care is produced/priced

[Edited on March 8, 2017 at 7:35 AM. Reason : at state level. amendment X]

3/8/2017 7:33:55 AM

I guess I didn't see any conservative politicians making free market arguments over the last few months. But again, that's when they were still nodding along that our healthcare system should strive to cover as many people as reasonably possible, that plans should offer atleast mediocre coverage, and they should be reasonably affordable.

3/8/2017 7:53:16 AM

I will say that as a younger, relatively healthy person that doesn't qualify for ACA subsidy, Ryancare would likely be much better for me. It discriminates against old people, reducing my premiums most likely, and I'd get a $2500 tax credit. It'd still be expensive but perhaps less so than the ACA, so there's that.

3/8/2017 8:13:12 AM

^^yeah there only at most a few dozen house members and couple senators worth a crap and they are not in leadership



[Edited on March 8, 2017 at 8:18 AM. Reason : s]

3/8/2017 8:15:50 AM

Quote :

"the reason private insurance is unaffordable"

There is way more to it than that. There's a reason power and water are regulated to the extent they are. Because if left to the "free market" water would be $35 a gallon and you'd only be able to turn your television on for 30 minutes a day before going into debt.

Other issues:
medical malpractice insurance rates

personalized nature of healthcare

disparity in quality of provisions, especially between rural and urban areas

lack of preventative healthcare (i.e., dental insurance is all too happy to pay thousands upon thousands for your teeth replacements but won't spot $500 for a dental guard that would prevent the problem in the first place)

3/8/2017 8:17:38 AM

Quote :

"There is way more to it than that. There's a reason power and water are regulated to the extent they are. Because if left to the "free market" water would be $35 a gallon and you'd only be able to turn your television on for 30 minutes a day before going into debt."

huh? there are many many thousands maybe millions of products/services for sale on that arent regulated or expensive.

[Edited on March 8, 2017 at 8:22 AM. Reason : a]

3/8/2017 8:21:29 AM

I always thought that power, water, cable, and other utilities were regulated due to infrastructure issues. For example, we wouldn't want 5 different grids from 5 different power companies competing for your business. So we have one ancient, crappy, ready-to-fail grid.

3/8/2017 8:44:59 AM

Quote :

"It discriminates against old people"

lol

The point of insurance is to discriminate against risk. America is completely fucked on healthcare because our populace is so fucking stupid. Half of you think it is a right to have other people pay for your fat ass... #welfare state.

3/8/2017 10:11:13 AM

JCE supports repeal of social security?

3/8/2017 10:13:41 AM

people who can't vote don't get opinions

3/8/2017 10:19:06 AM

Discriminate was the wrong word to use, I should have known that would trigger conservatives.

3/8/2017 10:31:03 AM

Quote :

"huh? there are many many thousands maybe millions of products/services for sale on that arent regulated or expensive. "

Those many thousands of products/services aren't related to your direct survival as a human being.

3/8/2017 10:32:01 AM

Quote :

"the reason private insurance is unaffordable is a direct result of govt intervention not allowing markets to work. we would be WAY better off if treated the problem like we do with problem of people not being able afford food. just pay for the care of indigent people and stay the hell out of how the care is produced/priced"

The problem is when it comes to healthcare, that group includes at least 120 million people. The entire reason programs like Medicaid and Medicare were created is because those populations were unable to afford care on the private market. Hell, the idea that government has no role in regulating a $3 trillion market responsible for keeping people alive is just absurd on it's face.

A few things to remember: Obamacare expanded coverage, lowered the rate at which health care costs were rising, and reduced the budget deficit. This GOP healthcare plan will do the opposite of all those things.

[Edited on March 8, 2017 at 11:03 AM. Reason : .]

3/8/2017 11:01:41 AM

Quote :

"lowered the rate at which health care costs were rising"

That's an important point right there because it lowered the rate they were rising, it didn't lower the actual level. The rising costs are a function of so much.

3/8/2017 11:16:38 AM

^^ Get rid of the private market.

Figure out where the breakpoint is for costs between routine care and serious disease

Require citizens to pay for their own routine care out of pocket. Have government pay for any costs above that level.

Provide subsidies for routine care based on income/wealth

Allow optional private insurance to cover the "routine" costs if people really want (like buying the extended warranty on a TV).

3/8/2017 11:24:41 AM

Quote :

"That's an important point right there because it lowered the rate they were rising, it didn't lower the actual level. The rising costs are a function of so much."

Costs will always rise, the idea that any GOP plan will suddenly cause insurers or providers to set rates back to where they were 8 years ago is just a fantasy. The problem with healthcare is that it was rising at more than double the rate of benchmark economic indicators like GDP, inflation and wage growth.

3/8/2017 11:31:56 AM

I wonder how many failures it will take for you hacks to realize your virtue-signaling, socialist nonsense doesn't work.

Affordable care act = unaffordable healthcare
affordable housing regulations = subprime mortgage housing bubble/financial crisis
Federal student aid = cost of college inflates like crazy

You're 0-3!

3/8/2017 11:59:17 AM

^has the GOP done anything recently that you considered to be wrong and if so, what was it, specifically?

[Edited on March 8, 2017 at 1:24 PM. Reason : ]

3/8/2017 1:24:10 PM

How difficult is it to not respond to the troll?

3/8/2017 1:35:34 PM

The new plan doesn't offer any subsidy if you make over $75k, right?

3/8/2017 1:59:25 PM

^Very little to none for anyone under 60, yes. But remember, it's not an income based subsidy!

It also doesn't include a tax cut for anyone making less than $200k/year. No one who is currently without coverage will be helped by this law and it will raise costs for everyone else.

3/8/2017 2:34:28 PM

^^either the tax credits end at $75k or they begin to phase out at $75k, I'm actually having some difficulty finding that answer.

But I'm glad you mentioned it because I was under the impression (wrongly) that the credits had no income requirements but were only based on age.

[Edited on March 8, 2017 at 2:35 PM. Reason : ^]

3/8/2017 2:34:55 PM

I make over 75k and get insurance through my employer. Will my taxes be lower?

The tuff questions

3/8/2017 2:42:10 PM

No point in quibbling over the details of another bullshit "reform". Anything other than single payer/medicare expansion is a setback and should be fought based on that alone.

[Edited on March 8, 2017 at 2:52 PM. Reason : .]

3/8/2017 2:50:25 PM

Me and mark Cuban on the same page:
http://blogmaverick.com/2017/03/08/some-thoughts-on-fixing-obamacare-shoot-holes-in-this-please/

3/8/2017 6:59:15 PM

^
Not on board with that. Everything should be covered, not just chronic or life threatening conditions.

3/8/2017 7:02:50 PM

^

Quote :

"Who takes less ?” The stakeholders in Obamacare are the Insurance Companies, Health Care Providers and Consumers. Will Insurance Companies be willing to take lower profits ? Will Health Care Providers be willing to charge less for the services they are providing or take less reimbursement ? Will Consumers have to accept fewer services and lesser quality of care ?"

this is a common economic fallacy. in a free market BOTH the seller and the buyer benefit.

3/8/2017 7:07:01 PM

and Ashley Madison was filled with horny ladies ready to get boned.

3/8/2017 7:18:21 PM