Quote :

"Duke message board says they have inside information that UNC's legal team has essentially negotiated down to probation and a big fine because NCAA wants to avoid legal proceedings. "

not saying that won't happen - but isn't it impossible to know at this point? if the NOA is just being released, UNC has a few months to respond and go before the COI and then a punishment will be handed down. in other words, the NOA is exactly what it stands for - simply a notice of allegations. punishments are still a ways off.

6/4/2015 4:56:42 PM

[Edited on June 4, 2015 at 5:01 PM. Reason : f]

6/4/2015 4:59:48 PM

Correct, they have 90 days to respond and will take all 90 I'm sure.

Then they meet for COI, which will be probably around September/October

and eventually, maybe March the bans go into effect.

I'm interested to see their self imposed stuff, what the ACC imposes(likely nothing) and what the BOG says(likely nothing)

They'll slip by some...bc State sure didn't back with V.

6/4/2015 5:01:16 PM

so what's the over/under on when we'll see the first:
-removal from recruit's list of schools
-decommittment from current recruits
-transfer of current players
-coaching departures

[Edited on June 4, 2015 at 5:05 PM. Reason : .]

6/4/2015 5:05:13 PM

6/4/2015 5:21:34 PM

6/4/2015 5:41:02 PM

What's happening???? I'm confused and enthused at the same time!

I don't know how to act!

6/4/2015 6:04:41 PM

^
Bridget, I'm enthused hon, but the first post on this page kinda deflate me

6/4/2015 6:05:53 PM

dat second post tho

6/4/2015 6:10:15 PM

Why would the second post deflate you? Multiple people have already said the same thing, that quote is complete BS. UNC can't bypass how this works and negotiate anything. Multiple articles have said it will probably be February before punishments are handed out. The immediate punishment right now is NO 5 star recruits will go to a college that is going to get a post season ban (for sure 1 year, possibly up to 5) and they may even lose some current commitments.

My post/pic above should raise everyone's spirits. As I said on the previous page, 7 out of the 9 players on the 2005 team graduated in AFAM and the other 2 didn't graduate (but majored in AFAM...).

[Edited on June 4, 2015 at 6:18 PM. Reason : _]

6/4/2015 6:17:01 PM

David Glenn was on the local sports talk up here in the Lynchburg/Roanoke area. Sounded like a UNC PR person saying that NCAA did not declare any athletes ineligible, no championships will be taken, not anything near SMU, men's basketball will skate, women's basketball will get hit hardest. Called it a yellow flag in soccer terms instead of a red card.

6/4/2015 6:25:23 PM

He basically is a UNC PR person

"Colin" on the Charlotte shows was talking about how the State / UNC rivalry should be about the student athletes, and the games on the court and field, not things in the classroom...yet he's never been afraid to make jokes about State's academics or State fans being dumb.

6/4/2015 6:47:04 PM

The second post is gifs, BlackDog. #becausehedodgesbulletsavi

6/4/2015 6:51:31 PM

What cracks me up about Glenn is he sucks UNC off at all times but everyone I work with goes out of their way to say he's a State homer.

6/4/2015 6:51:47 PM

Al Sharpton sure isn't sucking them off.



Guys give this some time, the real media outlets need to digest the info before they really ream them.

^^ Sorry, I meant to say the 1st post.

[Edited on June 4, 2015 at 6:54 PM. Reason : _]

6/4/2015 6:54:04 PM

$20 bucks says that in the next 3 days we get a lecture from Glenn about how public schools with a "The" in the title are much better at sports than those with "State" in them.

6/4/2015 8:14:58 PM

I know this is Sports Talk and not TSB, but I love how no one seems to care about all the taxpayer dollars wasted over the years on this whole affair, from the salaries paid to professors and administrators engaged in fraudulent classes to the huge salaries paid to all the coaches involved.

6/4/2015 8:24:30 PM

6/4/2015 8:30:14 PM

^^I definitely care. It's not just the salaries of those people engaged in fraud, it's the amount of money that has been spent on PR firms and attorneys trying to bail out UNC when they are clearly in the wrong. It's like a cult. The State of North Carolina would never allow that kind of money to be spent on any other UNC System school. The firm they are using now is billing at close to $1,000 an HOUR. Somebody should do a FOIA request and get the actual figure on what UNC has blown of taxpayer money just to preserve their basketball program.

for that matter...

Quote :

""Colin" on the Charlotte shows was talking about how the State / UNC rivalry should be about the student athletes, and the games on the court and field, not things in the classroom...yet he's never been afraid to make jokes about State's academics or State fans being dumb."

If State fans are dumb, what does that say about the other UNC System schools? I don't get how it's ok for pundits like that to put down State's academics when if they said the same about UNCW, Charlotte, Greensboro, etc. people would lose their minds. State and Carolina are miles ahead of the rest of the UNC System schools and it's not even close but somehow we're the dumb ones in the state because we don't have the BOG pumping money into our school like UNC and have to raise funds ourselves.

6/4/2015 9:58:56 PM

We're the dumb ones because 100% of NC State students and alumni drive tractors. I guess I was pointing out more of a double standard hypocrisy. Talks non-sports related shit about another school, then when the school he cheers for (and didn't attend) gets into trouble, that's not supposed to be a part of the rivalry.

6/4/2015 10:27:00 PM

^^i think it's less to do with the academic standards of the universities (although unc fans will be the first to say that state students weren't accepted at chapel hill) and more to do with state being an ag school. it gives unc fans an easy - albeit tired and unfunny - punchline about uneducated rednecks. it's more of a shot at the fan base as opposed to the actual university. at least that's how i generally perceive it. although i think most of us who grew up and have lived in NC a long time can agree that unc is the preferred team of most NC white trash.


[Edited on June 4, 2015 at 10:29 PM. Reason : arrows]

6/4/2015 10:28:38 PM

Only dumb people know how to drive tractors.

6/4/2015 10:33:54 PM

So from everything I can tell, they are lining everything up to blame the whole thing on Women's Basketball. I heard a little bit of the news today, and the spokesman for UNC was talking about how regrettable the actions of the team were and that they would likely get multiple post-season bans. . . and unfortunately Men's Football and Basketball had gotten wrapped up into it so while no vacated wins or post-season ban, they might be looking into a few lost scholarships each.

I wish I could find that clip online. It was so infuriating.

6/4/2015 10:35:06 PM

Sounds more hilarious than infuriating to me. Trying to sell the story that the super corrupt women's basketball program peer pressured the poor innocent revenue sports teams into their web of deceit.

6/4/2015 10:41:44 PM

If it weren't for the god damned pressure the bass fishing team puts on the school, we would have never had that pick up game with David Thompson!

6/4/2015 10:43:50 PM

i heard a lot of talk on the radio today about how "they feel bad for the kids" because they didn't have anything to do with what went on before they even got to the school.

i think that's such a bullshit argument, for a couple of reasons.

1. we are now 4 years into this. all the athletes that were unaware of this prior to committing are gone. the only kids left are the ones that committed to the school after this investigation started. it's no one's fault but their own that they didn't listen that all the negative recruiting the UNC coaches like to bitch and moan about. sure, the negative recruiting sucks and all, but it's part of the game. especially when it's true.

2. no one is saying that these athletes can't go elsewhere and get an education, and/or another opportunity to play again. nobody is throwing them in a dungeon where they won't see the light of day again. their lives aren't over.

i find it hard to feel terrible for anyone there at this point.

6/4/2015 11:53:16 PM

^agree completely

6/5/2015 12:17:04 AM

My prediction

- Lawyers stall this out until summer of 2016 after UNC wins the national championship
- Roy retires among the constant adversity from the evil NCAA
- 1 year postseason ban for all major athletics
- Sorrow

6/5/2015 12:25:47 AM

- *NCAA goes under* should have been the next one, the NCAA is as much on trial with this as UNC.

6/5/2015 7:42:46 AM

But the NCAA is a "non-profit" that exists for the children so how could it ever do anything wrong? A "non-profit" can't possibly act like a cartel because no profit.

[Edited on June 5, 2015 at 7:55 AM. Reason : ...]

6/5/2015 7:54:57 AM

Quote :

"^^I definitely care. It's not just the salaries of those people engaged in fraud, it's the amount of money that has been spent on PR firms and attorneys trying to bail out UNC when they are clearly in the wrong. It's like a cult. The State of North Carolina would never allow that kind of money to be spent on any other UNC System school. The firm they are using now is billing at close to $1,000 an HOUR. Somebody should do a FOIA request and get the actual figure on what UNC has blown of taxpayer money just to preserve their basketball program."

While a lot of this is athletically driven, there is a story here on what's wrong with higher education in this country at the moment and a good amount of it is on administration - people that don't actually educate anyone and yet they take more and more money away from the government, the students, skimp on salaries while taking more and more for themselves with little oversight of what it is they are doing. (And athletics are administration too technically.)

I was reading this yesterday (not tied into the Carolina scandal):

http://professorconfess.blogspot.com/2015/05/dispelling-another-lie-about-rising.html

Quote :

"Monday, May 25, 2015 Dispelling Another Lie About Rising Tuition By Professor Doom Admin: “Due to cutbacks in funding, we need to freeze pay for faculty again this year…” --I probably hear this every other year. The excuse doesn’t stop admin from getting raises, of course. Tuition rises and rises, and admin is forever spewing lies about why tuition is ever skyrocketing up. One of the most common lies is the tuition money needs to be used to pay for all the regulations, but this is so obvious, so intellectually dishonest and hypocritical, that it’s fun and easy to dispel. http://professorconfess.blogspot.com/search?q=crocodile Admin: “We’ll need to raise tuition again, because the cutbacks will cause a budget shortfall…” --I doubt a college student anywhere managed to make it through a 4 year degree without hearing this at least twice. The shortfall, of course, doesn’t stop admin from hiring more administration and support staff. Another popular lie justifying a tuition raise is the ol’ “they’re cutting back on funding” ruse. I concede a small truth to this, at least, perhaps, in one particular year or other, but overall? No way, not even close. Allow me to re-quote a report I cited earlier, a report written, I must add, by administrators in higher education: http://www.help.senate.gov/imo/media/Regulations_Task_Force_Report_2015_FINAL.pdf “…In 1970-71, what was then the U.S. Office of Education awarded roughly 1.6 million grants and loans to low- and middle-income families. In 2013-14, the U.S. Department of Education reported nearly 20 million such awards. The amount of money disbursed grew from $1.6 billion to more than $160 billion." --emphasis added. Hmm, so over the course of the last 40 years, funding has increased by a factor of 100. That’s…not much of a decrease. This is just looking at funding from the Federal government, of course, but someone else, a law professor, has also taken the time to see that at the state level overall funding has increased, even as admin has cried ever louder that their funding is being cut. Most amazing, the professor’s article made it to the New York Times, albeit as an “opinion” piece…though his calculations are about as much opinion as determining if water is wet: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/05/opinion/sunday/the-real-reason-college-tuition-costs-so-much.html?_r=0 In fact, public investment in higher education in America is vastly larger today, in inflation-adjusted dollars, than it was during the supposed golden age of public funding in the 1960s. Such spending has increased at a much faster rate than government spending in general. For example, the military’s budget is about 1.8 times higher today than it was in 1960, while legislative appropriations to higher education are more than 10 times higher. --he’s referring to state legislation here. There really was a time when the money I made mowing lawns would cover my tuition. I grant that I was mowing a lawn a day, but the fact still remained I could cover the several hundred bucks of tuition with basic work…and my professors weren’t starving, or clearly living at the poverty level. One of my professors was even Dean for a year, making an extra $2,000 (if memory serves, it’s been a long time)…not that I ever saw him in that capacity while I was getting my education as a student, since Deans really have little to do with students or education. Today, of course, most teachers in higher education are living at the poverty level, while Deans are professional mercenaries that make 3x to 15x what the faculty make…and still have nothing to do with education."

cut: It's like he's describing Marye Anne Fox here.

Quote :

"It really isn’t that tough to conjecture where the money is going in higher education, and that tuition increases have very little to do with “cutbacks in funding”, at least compared to the obvious guess. That said, there is a way of looking at things so that ‘cutback in funding’ has occurred, despite the numbers: While the college-age population has not increased since the tail end of the baby boom, the percentage of the population enrolled in college has risen significantly, especially in the last 20 years. Enrollment in undergraduate, graduate and professional programs has increased by almost 50 percent since 1995. As a consequence, while state legislative appropriations for higher education have risen much faster than inflation, total state appropriations per student are somewhat lower than they were at their peak in 1990. So, the huge growth in the student base hasn’t quite matched the huge growth in funding…”per student”, then, the funding has dropped, possibly as much as 25% on a per student basis. Still, this is easily overmatched by the grotesque increase in class sizes. Factor in the class sizes of 20, from a generation ago, to hundreds, even a thousand, that is more typical today, and it’s hard to see how that “reduced” funding is any issue, even per student. It is disingenuous to call a large increase in public spending a “cut,” as some university administrators do, because a huge programmatic expansion features somewhat lower per capita subsidies. --whoa, you’re calling administrators “disingenuous”? That’s dangerous, professor, you’re using your real name here, after all. Having established, then, that there is no real budget cut here, the professor does as I and many others have done, and tried to follow the money. He looks very carefully at another institution, and the dots are easily connected: Even more strikingly, an analysis by a professor at California Polytechnic University, Pomona, found that, while the total number of full-time faculty members in the C.S.U. system grew from 11,614 to 12,019 between 1975 and 2008, the total number of administrators grew from 3,800 to 12,183 — a 221 percent increase. Think about those numbers for a second: in 1975, the school system operated perfectly fine with about 12,000 faculty and 4,000 administrators. Forty years later, the student population has easily doubled and then some, increased by over 250,000 students. They still have nearly the same number of faculty, now teaching the extra quarter of a million students in auditorium-sized classes…but now you need more than triple the administrators. And tuition has gone up, 20 times as much as in 1975? Administrative pay has skyrocketed, and skyrocketed again, just to keep pace with tuition. How’s faculty pay working out? Let’s take a look: Salaries of full-time faculty members are, on average, barely higher than they were in 1970. Moreover, while 45 years ago 78 percent of college and university professors were full time, today half of postsecondary faculty members are lower-paid part-time employees, meaning that the average salaries of the people who do the teaching in American higher education are actually quite a bit lower than they were in 1970. So, once again, someone besides an administrator follows the money in higher education and learns that no, it’s not overpaid tenured faculty, and no, it’s not burdensome government regulations, and no, it’s not cutbacks in funding that require tuition to rise, burdening students with ever more crushing debt. None of the things administration says are true. It’s the administration. The only real question is: just how many people need to learn what’s really going on in higher education before anything will be done about it?"

6/5/2015 8:07:01 AM

yeah the women's bball stuff is laughable. as far as i can tell, those in charge of the women's bball program simply weren't as discreet

6/5/2015 8:08:45 AM

Quote :

"- *NCAA goes under* should have been the next one, the NCAA is as much on trial with this as UNC."

If the NCAA goes under, they would just setup NCAA Version 2.0.

6/5/2015 8:11:18 AM

It is funny how people in the media act like they are going to do this to women's basketball and then do this to men's basketball. Not even the NCAA knows what they are going to do since the committee that will hear the case hasn't even been assembled yet. Is there anyone that we DEFINITELY want in there that could be called upon?

^ The next NCAA will be paying athletes and there will be zero academic integrity which equals the death of college sports.

[Edited on June 5, 2015 at 8:17 AM. Reason : _]

6/5/2015 8:13:59 AM

Mac Attack crew is spouting the "it's all about women's bball and Roy and the coaches weren't named..." line thus far. But don't worry, DG is coming up at 8:45 to set the record straight on the NOA.

6/5/2015 8:30:50 AM

Re "how much money has been spent?", info that could be easily found:

Quote :

"The N&O reports that UNC has spent over $2 million on public relations management alone as a response to the scandal: http://www.newsobserver.com/2014/11/18/4333832/firm-charging-unc-165-million.html Includes $1.65 million in fiscal year 2015 to pay fourteen staff members to manage the public release of the investigative report."

Quote :

"UNC waited till Friday afternoon to reveal that their bill for the Wainstein investigation cost a cool $3.1 million."

Quote :

"http://www.wral.com/unc-chapel-hill-former-adviser-willingham-settle-lawsuit/14519120/ Willingham received a $335000 settlement from Chapel Hill."

6/5/2015 8:34:53 AM

Quote :

"The next NCAA will be paying athletes and there will be zero academic integrity which equals the death of college sports."

I'd just assume dissolve the notion of varsity sports entirely and make them club sports while removing their tax-free status.

6/5/2015 8:38:56 AM

so...kill college sports in a slightly different way?

6/5/2015 9:00:16 AM

Quote :

" Trying to sell the story that the super corrupt women's basketball program peer pressured the poor innocent revenue sports teams into their web of deceit."

it's fucking ridiculous

6/5/2015 9:02:22 AM

Quote :

"Sporting News ?@sportingnews 23m23 minutes ago UNC and Roy Williams are reportedly closing in on a new contract. http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/story/2015-06-05/roy-williams-unc-new-contract-scandal-ncaa-noa?eadid=SOC/Twi/SNMain … "

Holy lolololololol

6/5/2015 9:59:44 AM

^holy shit. they really are the most arrogant motherfuckers on the planet. unreal.

so Chapel Hill has spent the equivalent of 25% of UNC-Asheville's and about 10% of UNCW's entire endowment - just to defend their basketball program.

[Edited on June 5, 2015 at 10:44 AM. Reason : ^]

6/5/2015 10:43:23 AM

^^They had to. They needed to secure someone with blue shades on to coach through the next couple years of sanctions. They figured anyone else coming in would set them back even farther.

6/5/2015 10:52:06 AM

The level of hubris over there is nauseating. It's going to be a lot of fun to watch the reality check hit everyone associated with the organization.

6/5/2015 10:58:50 AM

Roy be like.

[Edited on June 5, 2015 at 11:04 AM. Reason : a]

6/5/2015 11:04:22 AM

This guy is probably a State Fan with State mentality.
http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/writer/dennis-dodd/25205291/why-do-i-sense-a-sigh-of-relief-from-unc-coming-out-of-chapel-hill

Quote :

"Williams is seemingly safe. So are former football coaches Butch Davis, John Bunting and (interim) Everett Withers. Poor Larry Fedora, the current coach. The guy inherited this mess. What penalties hurt the most? Probably some sort of Penn State-like cram down. Bust UNC to the brink of the death penalty. This time, it will be deserved. What will happen? Probably postseason bans for both major sports. Throw in women's basketball, too, if you care. Scholarships as well. Some sort of fine. In the end, this is going to look a lot like USC. Athletes who had absolutely nothing to do with the violations are going to pay for the sins of the past. That oughta clean things up, right?"

6/5/2015 11:09:16 AM

^ The NCAA did at least take away USC's 2005 championship with that though (although they still technically have the BCS Championship since the BCS & NCAA are separate entities or some shit IIRC).

I'd "settle" for post-season bans for both MBB & FB, plus one NCAA title taken away.

6/5/2015 11:13:43 AM

Just a wild thought without any basis, but what are the odds they're giving Roy a new contract to help out a "good ole boy"...they let him go in a year or so then, instead of citing all this shit as a reason not to pay the remainder of the contract, keep paying him because he's "been through enough" and "we're nice people"

Just one more fuck you to the tax payers

[Edited on June 5, 2015 at 11:22 AM. Reason : ]

6/5/2015 11:21:08 AM

I could see that. Especially because I don't see why Roy would really want to stick around past this year. The old contract was through 2018, but what's the new extension?

6/5/2015 11:28:02 AM

Dennis Dodd is one of the shittiest national writers out there. In addition to drivel like this, he consistently serves as a PR mouthpiece for whatever properties CBS owns

6/5/2015 11:31:04 AM

Has someone made sure that Art Chansky guy is still alive?

6/5/2015 11:43:36 AM