The whole fun fact in this is that hatred by the Republican base for ACORN originally stems from the fact that ACORN is involved in getting out the vote in... wait for it... underprivileged areas usually populated by... wait for it... minorities (RACE CARD ALERT DISMISS THIS ARGUMENT IN ITS ENTIRETY).

9/17/2009 3:30:20 PM

nm

[Edited on September 17, 2009 at 3:30 PM. Reason : ]

9/17/2009 3:30:39 PM

Quote :

"I would also think the Right would be thrilled to find out that even ACORN employees have a disdain for the government and taxation."

You are entirely missing the point.

Say it with me here:
Supporting illegal activity......Bad (Both Left and Right should agree)
Having disdain for the government and taxation.......depends on who you ask

Keep Spinning, maybe you'll get it sooner or later.

[Edited on September 17, 2009 at 3:32 PM. Reason : .]

9/17/2009 3:31:07 PM

Well, I think TreeTwista10 would be one of those types who would argue that we didn't "torture" anyone, if you know where I'm going with this.

9/17/2009 3:31:36 PM

Quote :

"God All American 19034 Posts user info edit post Now you're just putting words in my posts."

9/17/2009 3:34:12 PM

I'm... not?

9/17/2009 3:35:49 PM

is brining up torture in the ACORN thread your way of not condoning ACORN but not admitting it or something? just wondering the reasoning for the total change of subject

9/17/2009 3:38:34 PM

moron brought it up as an counter-example of something that is illegal, but a majority of conservatives appear to support.

9/17/2009 3:39:34 PM

#1. I dont support torture.... (its kind of lame that you are so wrong on this issue that you have to spin to something else and attack the person instead of the idea). In any debate class, you just lost Bud........

#2. You are trying to label me a hypocrit. Lets use your logic for a second....so since you dont support torture but support ACORN engaging in illegal activities, are you a hypocrit?

9/17/2009 3:40:58 PM

I understand what he was doing, but when I've done that in the past I've been told "so what? what does X have to do with Y"

comparisons are fine, but I don't want some:

"Obama is doing..."
"Oh yeah well Bush did..."
"Oh yeah well Clinton did..."
"Oh yeah well Bush Sr. did... and Reagan did..."

etc

9/17/2009 3:41:18 PM

Quote :

"The whole fun fact in this is that hatred by the Republican base for ACORN originally stems from the fact that ACORN is involved in getting out the vote in... wait for it... underprivileged areas usually populated by... wait for it... minorities (RACE CARD ALERT DISMISS THIS ARGUMENT IN ITS ENTIRETY)."

You heard it here first folks...............God wants ACORN to be able to do anything it wants. If you catch ACORN doing something illegal, its perfectly OK. The wrong party is the person who caught ACORN in the act.

[Edited on September 17, 2009 at 3:46 PM. Reason : put in the quote bars]

9/17/2009 3:45:16 PM

Let me give you a scenario:

Hidden camera videos reveal four police officers engaging in illegal drug use. Should we:

A. Dismantle the entire police department system across the entire United States, because obviously these four officers are emblematic of every police officer in the entire country.

B. Fire the officers, condemn the actions, and implement stricter policies to prevent such actions from happening in the future.

[Edited on September 17, 2009 at 3:51 PM. Reason : ]

9/17/2009 3:51:23 PM

Quote :

"#1. I dont support torture.... (its kind of lame that you are so wrong on this issue that you have to spin to something else and attack the person instead of the idea). In any debate class, you just lost Bud........ #2. You are trying to label me a hypocrit. Lets use your logic for a second....so since you dont support torture but support ACORN engaging in illegal activities, are you a hypocrit?"

lol

You ARE a hypocrite.

Where is your "their actions saved taxpayers from potentially funding illegal activities. YOU SIMPLY CANNOT DENY THIS!" talk in these threads?

http://brentroad.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=550611&page=1#12366168
http://brentroad.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=567884&page=1#12980379
http://brentroad.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=510655&page=3#11737319

I'm not trying to defend ACORN. Poor management was exposed, they were embarrassed, and hopefully they will become a stronger institute as a result. ACORN is a massive organization, and they do far more good than bad.

But, your glee that "tax payers were saved" is obviously completely phony, just admit it.

Hopefully, like ACORN has done, you'll reevaluate yourself and become better for it.

[Edited on September 17, 2009 at 3:54 PM. Reason : ]

9/17/2009 3:53:48 PM

Quote :

"ACORN is a massive organization, and they do far more good than bad."

whether that statement is correct or incorrect, the public perception is the opposite

9/17/2009 3:55:07 PM

what these acorn employees did was wrong. and acorn was stupid not to make sure all their ducks were in a row (especially since other offices had seen this guy unsuccessfully try this stunt before they were successful). but is this more than a few employees fucking up or is it an organization-wide problem? i don't know. but until an investigation clears that up, all that has been proven here is that a couple of their offices have idiots/criminals working there. the united states still does business with haliburton and they misplaced billions in iraq. forgive me for not caring all that much about this nonsense.

[Edited on September 17, 2009 at 3:58 PM. Reason : .]

9/17/2009 3:58:05 PM

Quote :

"whether that statement is correct or incorrect, the public perception is the opposite"

And who pushed this agenda?

9/17/2009 3:58:52 PM

^^^ that's what happens when the most watched news organizations promotes this guy's work:


With absolutely no coverage of anything else ACORN has done. They don't have 400,000 employees just going around teaching prostitutes how to do their taxes.

[Edited on September 17, 2009 at 3:59 PM. Reason : ]

9/17/2009 3:59:05 PM

.

Quote :

""Obama is doing..." "Oh yeah well Bush did..." "Oh yeah well Clinton did..." "Oh yeah well Bush Sr. did... and Reagan did...""

Its trash converstaions like that that move ideas from the relm of common sense into the mistrut world of politics; Where something that makes absolutely no sense all of a sudden seems OK.

I agree Tree

[Edited on September 17, 2009 at 4:04 PM. Reason : .]

9/17/2009 3:59:54 PM

It's like being afraid of flying on airplanes, because you only see plane crashes reported on television instead of safe landings.

BUT IT'S THE PUBLIC PERCEPTION DUE TO 24 HOUR NEWS MEDIA COVERAGE, IT MUST BE TRUE!

9/17/2009 4:00:52 PM

you know God, I don't recall you having much of a problem with public perception a year ago when the 24 hours news media was pretty much 100% pro-Obama and anti-Bush and public perception might've gone along more with your ideals

but now that its a negative perception on ACORN, the public opinion is worthless?

and here's something else...and this extends far beyond politics...the court of public opinion is not legally binding like courts of law (this much is obvious)...but the court of public opinion has power...lots and lots of power

[Edited on September 17, 2009 at 4:08 PM. Reason : .]

9/17/2009 4:06:23 PM

[quote]
lol

You ARE a hypocrite.

Where is your "their actions saved taxpayers from potentially funding illegal activities. YOU SIMPLY CANNOT DENY THIS!" talk in these threads?

http://brentroad.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=550611&page=1#12366168
http://brentroad.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=567884&page=1#12980379
http://brentroad.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=510655&page=3#11737319

I'm not trying to defend ACORN. Poor management was exposed, they were embarrassed, and hopefully they will become a stronger institute as a result. ACORN is a massive organization, and they do far more good than bad.

But, your glee that "tax payers were saved" is obviously completely phony, just admit it.

Hopefully, like ACORN has done, you'll reevaluate yourself and become better for it.[\quote]

This post is so retarded, I'm not going to waste my time to reply.

9/17/2009 4:08:40 PM

^^so all you're saying is this is a big deal because lots of other people do. but it's not really a big deal? i don't really understand your point.



[Edited on September 17, 2009 at 4:10 PM. Reason : .]

9/17/2009 4:09:30 PM

I'm happy for you and Imma let you finish, but bigun20 is one of the worst posters of all time!

9/17/2009 4:10:32 PM

^^i don't really understand your post...I'm simply saying public opinion is powerful, for right or wrong

and its silly to dismiss something being true or not simply because its the public opinion, when a year ago he would agree with something when the public opinion was different and went along more with his individual ideals and opinions

some of you guys post a lot of polls where it seems like you value public opinion, so why not in this case?

[Edited on September 17, 2009 at 4:13 PM. Reason : .]

[Edited on September 17, 2009 at 4:14 PM. Reason : .]

9/17/2009 4:12:24 PM

Quote :

"This post is so retarded, I'm not going to waste my time to reply."

beauty

but who seriously tries to debate with bigun20, anyhow?

9/17/2009 4:17:05 PM

Quote :

" Hidden camera videos reveal four police officers engaging in illegal drug use. Should we: A. Dismantle the entire police department system across the entire United States, because obviously these four officers are emblematic of every police officer in the entire country. B. Fire the officers, condemn the actions, and implement stricter policies to prevent such actions from happening in the future."

#1. Who said we should dismantle ACORN? I didnt.

#2. You would choose option C, attack the person with the hidden cameras.

9/17/2009 4:17:23 PM

Quote :

"and its silly to dismiss something being true or not simply because its the public opinion, when a year ago he would agree with something when the public opinion was different"

And 'round we go!

Moron says: Acorn has done more good than bad.

You say: Whether that's true, public perception is the opposite.

moron+god respond: That's only true because Fox news is a piece of shit. (paraphrasing)

You respond with the quote above. You've gone from "whether that's true" to "it's silly to dismiss it" when the original claim had nothing to do with public opinion. They were arguing that it is true DESPITE public opinion, not true because it is the opposite of public opinion.

9/17/2009 4:18:31 PM

Joe,

Please tell me in this thread what you would like to debate.

9/17/2009 4:21:24 PM

tell us then stu, does Acorn do more good than bad? I don't know enough about them. I do know what the public opinion of them is, and apparently its making people mad ITT

and again...don't underestimate public opinion...in some senses, it doesnt matter what the truth is, what matters is what people think is the truth

[Edited on September 17, 2009 at 4:22 PM. Reason : .]

9/17/2009 4:21:29 PM

Quote :

"I don't know enough about them."

Then don't make claims about them.

9/17/2009 4:29:58 PM

I wasn't making the claim so I don't feel terribly compelled to back it up. I just think the shenanigans you're pulling regarding public opinion is sly.

"Not that your claim is wrong because of public opinion, but it's silly to dismiss it being not true because the public opinion says so".

9/17/2009 4:31:14 PM

Did the ACORN workers know they were dealing with actors? I mean, they look serious as all get out as they are recommending that a pimp and his abused prostitute list some underage sex slaves as dependents on their tax returns.

Reform for what, ACORN? More abuse of women?

Jesus Christ.

9/17/2009 4:32:14 PM

BTW, lets not forget the fact that God said this earlier in the thread when this was compared to Chris Hansen

Quote :

"You're comparing ACORN workers to sex predators? Wow, just wow..."

(Note: He completely missed the point of the analogy being how the information was gathered and not what they were observing)

He and moron then go on to compare this ACORN mess to POW Tourture, which are two completely different social and economic events ...... I'm completely blown away by the idiocy here.

9/17/2009 4:32:38 PM

^^^^I'm not making claims about them...I'm pointing out what the public opinion of them right now is...I don't know enough about their entire organization to know if they do more good than bad...and honestly it sounds like nobody ITT really does...I'm just pointing out what I DO know, which is the public opinion of ACORN

^^^God seems to be saying public opinion doesn't matter, its just opinion and isn't necessarily based off whats the truth

If public opinion doesn't matter, then why post a bunch of public opinion polls as evidence of anything? If public opinion doesn't matter, who cares what the PotUS or Congress' approval ratings are? Who cares what percentage of people think Obama was born outside the US or Iraq had WMDs?

like i said earlier

Quote :

"don't underestimate public opinion...in some senses, it doesnt matter what the truth is, what matters is what people think is the truth"

[Edited on September 17, 2009 at 4:36 PM. Reason : .]

[Edited on September 17, 2009 at 4:39 PM. Reason : .]

9/17/2009 4:34:14 PM

Well, I don't think this incident reflects in any way on Obama or liberals or Democrats.

It definitely reflects poorly on ACORN's part.

They should lose their federal funding, look into new mid-level leadership, and consider dismantling altogether if they can't find a way to ensure that all their representatives are working towards the same, good goals. You can't just mishmash a bunch of alienated folks together and call it an organization...cause the crazy ones will fuck shit up for the reasonable folks.

[Edited on September 17, 2009 at 4:38 PM. Reason : ]

9/17/2009 4:38:22 PM

^Exactly

Wheather Right, Middle, or Left, Americans should be happy that these individuals being removed from ANY ORGANIZATION.

It just so happens its ACORN, one that is tax payer funded! Of course political parties are using this for political reasons.....even though ACORN is reportedly non-partisan. It looks like most of you see this in political terms and try to justify accordingly. Might I suggest taking your Huffington Post and Drudge Report political blinders off for a second?

[Edited on September 17, 2009 at 4:47 PM. Reason : .]

9/17/2009 4:44:21 PM

No one is upset that the individuals were fired. I don't see what you're arguing.

9/17/2009 4:49:19 PM

Quote :

"bigun20: Please tell me in this thread what you would like to debate."

i want you to address the specific challenges that you were called out on earlier. you cant just take three separate instances of quoted evidence and call it "retarded" and run away. that might have worked for you on the playground in middle school, but it doesn't work in the real world.

Quote :

" bigun20 >> You are trying to label me a hypocrit. moron >> You ARE a hypocrite. Where is your "their actions saved taxpayers from potentially funding illegal activities. YOU SIMPLY CANNOT DENY THIS!" talk in these threads? http://brentroad.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=550611&page=1#12366168 http://brentroad.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=567884&page=1#12980379 http://brentroad.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=510655&page=3#11737319 I'm not trying to defend ACORN. Poor management was exposed, they were embarrassed, and hopefully they will become a stronger institute as a result. ACORN is a massive organization, and they do far more good than bad. But, your glee that "tax payers were saved" is obviously completely phony, just admit it."

[Edited on September 17, 2009 at 5:13 PM. Reason : ]

9/17/2009 5:12:33 PM

Quote :

"that might have worked for you on the playground in middle school, but it doesn't work in the real world ON THE WOLF WEB"

9/17/2009 5:16:13 PM

I wonder where all this outrage from Fox News/the Right was when Blackwater was found of actually setting up child prostitution rings, ON TAXPAYER DIME!!!!!!!!!11!!

http://onlinejournal.com/artman/publish/article_5100.shtml

9/20/2009 12:53:32 AM

What would bigun20 do if some leftist “film maker” were to sneak cameras into megachurches when the preacher was giving political speeches, to force them to be stripped of tax-exempt status. Would he market it as heroic filmmaker looking out for tax payers, or an attack on the church i wonder?

9/20/2009 1:53:42 PM

its great to see this racist, fraudulent, scandalous, and worthless group come down. its about time. how long have they been breaking the law and no investigative journalists thought to look.

even jon stewart asked, where the hell the investigative journalists were on this one

9/20/2009 4:00:14 PM

Quote :

" how long have they been breaking the law and no investigative journalists thought to look"

You’re suggest pimps and prostitutes routinely go in there seeking tax advice? ha!

And how do you know they’re worthless? What are you basing this on?

9/20/2009 5:55:17 PM

Lets call this attack on ACORN by Republicans what it is:

1) An attempt to score political points for lack of tractability on any substantive policy issue.
2) An attempt to discredit and marginalize an organization that registers low income minority voters, which will work to help suppress reliably Democratic votes in coming elections.
3) An attempt to paint the left as deviant and extreme, while calling their own fringe elements the "voice" of average Americans.

9/20/2009 8:06:03 PM

Quote :

"Lets call this attack on ACORN by Republicans what it is: 1) An attempt to score political points for lack of tractability on any substantive policy issue. 2) An attempt to discredit and marginalize an organization that registers low income minority voters, which will work to help suppress reliably Democratic votes in coming elections. 3) An attempt to paint the left as deviant and extreme, while calling their own fringe elements the "voice" of average Americans. "

Yeah, that must be it.

or maybe ACORN is just a rotten organization that needs to be done away with.

9/20/2009 11:18:30 PM

You are going to need to do better than a smiley face and a vague, unsubstantiated normative assertion.

9/20/2009 11:28:23 PM

^ Yeah, Republicans just made it all up.

Obama favors investigation into ACORN scandal
(AP) – 1 hour ago

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5g5I6tDiLF17oQUvXCSsqWXxeLNoAD9ARFH9O0

ACORN plans internal investigation

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jxhq8CPN8LdLntDEDtE5NrEBQ2IgD9AOISEO1

STFU.

9/21/2009 1:33:58 AM

i had always heard the rumors how it was kinda bad but after seeing the videos i was glad they are not paid for from tax dollars

9/21/2009 1:43:31 AM

Quote :

"i had always heard the rumors how it was kinda bad but after seeing the videos i was glad they are not paid for from tax dollars"

From anyone else, I would take that as sarcasm. But yeah, they have received our tax dollars.

Quote :

"and a vague, unsubstantiated normative assertion"

As opposed to your detailed analysis of the situation?

9/21/2009 3:21:44 AM

As if ethics were the only means with which to determine eligibility for taxpayer-funded government contracts. Blackwater has killed scores of innocent people, yet they have still raked in billions in Federal contracts.

9/21/2009 11:39:18 AM