this is ridiculous.

Sims 3? are you f-in kidding me? Could you pick a game with serious graphics to compare at least?

my graphing calculator could run SimCity.

[Edited on November 13, 2009 at 12:55 PM. Reason : .]

11/13/2009 12:54:36 PM

We are talking simcity 4 here not SimCity floppy disk

[Edited on November 13, 2009 at 1:02 PM. Reason : not even worth it...]

11/13/2009 12:57:10 PM

11/13/2009 1:27:42 PM

Quote :

" This is in no way directed towards zune marketplace vs. itunes but its my understanding that paying for music is not a new concept and it existed before napster and torrenting? I could be mistaken though...I've never bought CD's so maybe bestbuy was just giving them away for free in the 90's *shrug*"

But its not the 90's and paying 15$ a month for infinite music and 10 free song credits a month that you can cash in to get mp3 format downloads beats 20$ an album in the 90's or 1$ a song on itunes now.

Like there isn't even a remotely logical argument for 1$ a song.

11/13/2009 1:32:59 PM

Wrong simcity


^so do I get to keep all my downloaded content when I cancel?

$9.99/album $1-$1.29/song

what's your point? That I shouldn't have to pay and it should be free or the price per song should be what you think is fair for the record companies.

I'm not defending what prices the record companies set I am defending buying individual songs and albums.

[Edited on November 13, 2009 at 1:47 PM. Reason : .]

11/13/2009 1:33:43 PM

i was totally kidding.

11/13/2009 1:42:05 PM

So if my math is right here..with Zunes 10 songs a month credit...in order for me to have the owned music library collection I have now what I bought at $.99/ song it would take me 12.5 years and cost me $1300 more? That does sound like a great deal lol.

11/13/2009 1:51:22 PM

Quote :

"My only gripe with Microsoft is that the Zune/Windows7 and XboxLive integration into a unified communication and entertainment platform hasn't really happened. Why is xbox live marketplace and gamer communication tools not available on Windows 7? Alternately, why is it taking so long to allow Zune marketplace access on xbox live?"

It's happening. Zune/Windows7? Zune has it's software on WINDOWS. It can't be built into Windows because of antitrust laws, and honestly that doesn't make any sense anyway. It's already got mediacenter support, which is all you'd really want (I would think) on that end of the spectrum.

Like Golovko said, ZUNE Marketplace will be on XboxLive in the next round of updates.

Xbox Live Marketplace is already on Windows 7, it's called http://marketplace.xbox.com/en-US/ what could be better than having it on the web, accessible from any device?

Not sure what your asking for here, seems like it all already exists (or will very soon).

11/13/2009 2:04:10 PM

Quote :

"So if my math is right here..with Zunes 10 songs a month credit...in order for me to have the owned music library collection I have now what I bought at $.99/ song it would take me 12.5 years and cost me $1300 more? That does sound like a great deal lol."

No, it would take you 5 minutes and $14.99. And you can buy songs outright at any time. So it's basically iTunes++. You can buy the music, but you also get access to EVERYTHING else for $4.99 a month.

[Edited on November 13, 2009 at 2:07 PM. Reason : .]

11/13/2009 2:05:30 PM

I said OWN. As in it's my legally PURCHASED music not 'rented'

11/13/2009 2:07:03 PM

you can buy songs outright at any time but you also get access to EVERYTHING else for $4.99 a month.

11/13/2009 2:08:09 PM

Ok so now we are back to buying songs the same way you buy songs any where else.

11/13/2009 2:09:05 PM

Quote :

"Wrong simcity"

not at all...i just posted a picture of the best simcity EVAR

11/13/2009 2:10:11 PM

So like I said. If I wanted to own my music, zune does nothing more for me than amazon or iTunes. Except that I'm not paying a subscription fee. Honestly music is not like tv or movies. I might download a new song here and there but it's not a daily or weekly occurance. If this were for movies/tv then I'm on board.

11/13/2009 2:14:12 PM

^^ WRONG. That would be the SimCity edition for the SNES. Anything else is a filthy lie.

11/13/2009 2:16:38 PM

Quote :

"So like I said. If I wanted to own my music, zune does nothing more for me than amazon or iTunes. Except that I'm not paying a subscription fee. Honestly music is not like tv or movies. I might download a new song here and there but it's not a daily or weekly occurance. If this were for movies/tv then I'm on board."

This is all the more reason you should be a Zune member. Zune gives you 10 free credits per month for a total of 120 free songs per year so long as you're a subscriber. You can download your free songs per month as mp3 format without DRM and they truly will be yours.

Furthermore, you don't really have much of a point with the 'owning' argument. Until very recently, iTunes downloads were all DRM locked. Under the DMCA its illegal for you to modify the DRM in anyway. That means, legally, the music you payed for can only be played on an Apple device. That's an interesting take on the idea of 'owning' something.

Its true that if I stop my zune subscription, then the songs I've downloaded outside of my monthly freebies will expire, but, being that I'm a huge music lover thats really in no danger of ever happening. The freedom of hearing a song, firing up zune, and instantly downloading onto my PC or old school zune has always trumped doing the same thing on iTunes, but being charged for every download.

I have over 6500 songs on my external HD at my house. That cost me 360$ vs 6500$ for iTunes.

11/13/2009 3:43:12 PM

Quote :

"Furthermore, you don't really have much of a point with the 'owning' argument. Until very recently, iTunes downloads were all DRM locked. Under the DMCA its illegal for you to modify the DRM in anyway. That means, legally, the music you payed for can only be played on an Apple device. That's an interesting take on the idea of 'owning' something."

haha, great point.

11/13/2009 3:45:57 PM

^^you just validated my point. thank you.

And even if i paid the $.30/song for my past purchases to be legally DRM free...i'm still coming out a lot less than Zune. So again..thank you

Quote :

"I have over 6500 songs on my external HD at my house. That cost me 360$ vs 6500$ for iTunes."

And when you cancel Zune how many songs do you have then?

[Edited on November 13, 2009 at 3:48 PM. Reason : .]

11/13/2009 3:46:11 PM

How did I validate your point? I'm not sure I follow..

11/13/2009 3:47:34 PM

If I were a perfect citizen and I cancelled my Zune subscription, I'd be left with around 90 songs that were playable until I re activated my account.

However, I'm not a perfect citizen and I've stripped WMA DRM from everything I've downloaded pre zune 3.0, and converted those files to mp3 so around 6500.

11/13/2009 3:51:53 PM

Quote :

"And when you cancel Zune how many songs do you have then?"

At $15 a month, he'd have 240 that he owned based on the normal plan. Obviously if he wanted more, he could get more.

The beauty of the Zune setup is that you get 10 free songs and the option to legally listen to virtually any music you want for an additional $5 a month. It's the ultimate try before you buy type system -- when someone recommends a CD to you or you hear a random song on the radio, you don't have to spend an additional $9.99 to learn you only like one other song on the rest of the CD.

11/13/2009 3:56:05 PM

Quote :

"This is all the more reason you should be a Zune member. Zune gives you 10 free credits per month for a total of 120 free songs per year so long as you're a subscriber. You can download your free songs per month as mp3 format without DRM and they truly will be yours."

I pay $0.99-$1.29 per song on iTunes as of right now and they are truly mine.
I can pay $0.30 per song for anything I purchased in the past at $0.99 so that its 'truly mine' which brings me to the current pricing of $1.29/song (well actually a penny less.)

I don't have to keep paying $15/month just to be able to listen to my music and having to be restricted to Zune devices/software. Not that I'm not happy with iTunes or my iPhone...but if I wanted to take my business else where, I can without feeling like I've wasted my money. In essence its like you're paying $15/month for a radio service that lets you pick what you want to listen to. The 10 free credits is a joke.

Quote :

"If I were a perfect citizen and I cancelled my Zune subscription, I'd be left with around 90 songs that were playable until I re activated my account. However, I'm not a perfect citizen and I've stripped WMA DRM from everything I've downloaded pre zune 3.0, and converted those files to mp3 so around 6500."

Can't use that to argue your point because we aren't talking 'grey areas' here.

Quote :

"At $15 a month, he'd have 240 that he owned based on the normal plan. Obviously if he wanted more, he could get more."

Where did you get 240? 10/month = 120/year...not sure where the two year assumption came from. Obviously he can but at what price? $.99/song?

Quote :

"The beauty of the Zune setup is that you get 10 free songs and the option to legally listen to virtually any music you want for an additional $5 a month. It's the ultimate try before you buy type system -- when someone recommends a CD to you or you hear a random song on the radio, you don't have to spend an additional $9.99 to learn you only like one other song on the rest of the CD."

I guess thats why I listen to the previews before I buy anything, same applies to any movie I'm going to go see.

[Edited on November 13, 2009 at 3:59 PM. Reason : .]

11/13/2009 3:56:24 PM

Quote :

"Where did you get 240? 10/month = 120/year...not sure where the two year assumption came from."

$360 / $15mo = 24 months
24 months * 10 songs per month = 240 songs

Quote :

"I guess thats why I listen to the previews before I buy anything, same applies to any movie I'm going to go see."

30 second snippets don't do it for me when it comes to music; I'd rather just pay the $5 and get to listen to the whole thing.

[Edited on November 13, 2009 at 4:01 PM. Reason : .]

11/13/2009 4:00:46 PM

^i'm not following...i know the math I just don't know where the $360 came from?

^can't please everyone...

[Edited on November 13, 2009 at 4:03 PM. Reason : .]

11/13/2009 4:02:03 PM

The thing about the zune service that i'd like the most is being able to have a pandora style mechanism for music discovery with a much larger library. Previewing songs is retarded because i dont go randomly to an artist and listen to 10 second clips, I want to hear the entire song and then flag it for later listenting. Cant do that with itunes.

[Edited on November 13, 2009 at 4:03 PM. Reason : j]

11/13/2009 4:02:45 PM

^iTunes can't do your homework for you either but I'm not complaining.

11/13/2009 4:03:54 PM

Quote :

"^i'm not following...i know the math I just don't know where the $360 came from?"

Quote :

"I have over 6500 songs on my external HD at my house. That cost me 360$ vs 6500$ for iTunes."

11/13/2009 4:04:29 PM

got it.

11/13/2009 4:05:11 PM

theres a difference between hearing about a band from someone and looking them up, and listening to music, having the player pick a song thats similar, and then flagging that song/band if you like them.

11/13/2009 4:05:26 PM

so what you are asking for is a music genius at your side to recommend similar songs to you?

11/13/2009 4:08:07 PM

Quote :

"I don't have to keep paying $15/month just to be able to listen to my music and having to be restricted to Zune devices/software. Not that I'm not happy with iTunes or my iPhone...but if I wanted to take my business else where, I can without feeling like I've wasted my money. In essence its like you're paying $15/month for a radio service that lets you pick what you want to listen to. The 10 free credits is a joke."

You aren't restricted to anything as you can download songs and albums in .mp3 format. Every portable mp3 player on the planet would be your platform.

Also, how is 10 free credits a month a joke? Thats practically a free CD a month.

I'm glad you pointed out the Radio aspect of it though because the Smart DJ feature in Zune is excellent. Say I'm listening to the latest MF Doom release, and I want to listen to more like it. I can either go to the Related tab and get similar artists and artists that inspired MF Doom, or I can click Smart DJ and actually listen to similar artist Pandora style. Exception being, if I like a song I can download it on the spot.

I also like the fact that when I'm listening to a song, the zune player displays album art and what not in a toned down manner thats aesthetically pleasing. When I'm focusing in on a terminal on one screen, I don't mind having the player full screen on another for pretty cool ambiance that isn't an LSD trip display.

11/13/2009 4:10:30 PM

^^and plays the entire song.

Not just hrm you might like this song, pause whatever you're doing and listen to this 10 second clip and decide if you want to buy it. Oh you do want to buy it? Great! Plug in your iphone so you can sync it! Oh hey wait this iphone is synced to another computer!!! first lets delete everything of your iphone before syncing it back.

think pandora, but much larger music selection, no ads, and more control.

[Edited on November 13, 2009 at 4:12 PM. Reason : ^^]

11/13/2009 4:11:54 PM

Quote :

"I'm glad you pointed out the Radio aspect of it though because the Smart DJ feature in Zune is excellent. Say I'm listening to the latest MF Doom release, and I want to listen to more like it. I can either go to the Related tab and get similar artists and artists that inspired MF Doom, or I can click Smart DJ and actually listen to similar artist Pandora style. Exception being, if I like a song I can download it on the spot. I also like the fact that when I'm listening to a song, the zune player displays album art and what not in a toned down manner thats aesthetically pleasing. When I'm focusing in on a terminal on one screen, I don't mind having the player full screen on another for pretty cool ambiance that isn't an LSD trip display."

I'm confused...are we talking about the Zune Marketplace or iTunes?

Quote :

"Also, how is 10 free credits a month a joke? Thats practically a free CD a month."

It amazes me that you actually believe that...the minute you cancel your subscription your 'free cd a month' just went out the window along with your sanity.

It's like you're trying to argue Netflix is better than buying movies when both are perfectly acceptable.

[Edited on November 13, 2009 at 4:17 PM. Reason : ,]

11/13/2009 4:12:47 PM

I mean if you really like iTunes that much there's nothing we can say.

Convenience wise, there's no comparison currently. Zune wins by such a huge margin.

Dude, you download your 'free songs' in mp3 format.

How is this not clear? It doesn't go away. Ever. Ask me how I know.

[Edited on November 13, 2009 at 4:18 PM. Reason : >.<]

11/13/2009 4:18:08 PM

The other nice thing about the Zune and services like Rhapsody is that I am (and I'm sure most of the people posting right now are) sitting at desks listening to music. If you say a normal song averages 3 minutes and $0.99 on iTunes, having 8 hours of music to listen to would cost you $160.

Zune, Rhapsody, etc.: A max of $15 per month.

"You don't own that music", you say. Over the 10 months that you'd have your Zune subscription (before coming close to the amount you spent on iTunes in that one day), you'd net yourself 100 songs; even though you weren't limited to listening to only those 100 songs over the past 10 months.

11/13/2009 4:20:06 PM

iTunes works just fine for me because I'm not intimidated by it as some of you seem to be. But I'm not arguing iTunes is better than other music players/stores...Im just saying there is nothing wrong with PURCHASING music and not having to pay a subscription fee however you go about buying your music.

^you are basically dancing in circles with the same point. I, too, have this same great service because I have an XM subscription, pandora radio, and whatever else is out there that lets me listen to music while sitting at my desk. *shrug*

[Edited on November 13, 2009 at 4:21 PM. Reason : .]

11/13/2009 4:20:14 PM

Quote :

"the minute you cancel your subscription your 'free cd a month' just went out the window along with your sanity"

that's just not true

dude doesn't know how zune marketplace works

11/13/2009 4:20:51 PM

^lol at dude...so explain to me how 10 free songs a month at $15/month for unlimited listening works. Because its my understanding that you only keep those 10 songs/month and the other 100000000 songs you downloaded are gone when you cancel.

11/13/2009 4:22:19 PM

also if you could get movies and whatever via your netflix acount on zune, that would be pretty boss.

11/13/2009 4:22:43 PM

Quote :

"^you are basically dancing in circles with the same point. I, too, have this same great service because I have an XM subscription, pandora radio, and whatever else is out there that lets me listen to music while sitting at my desk. *shrug*"

Which makes it extremely odd that you put up with iTunes instead of going to a clearly superior service designed for people who listen to music nonstop.

11/13/2009 4:23:10 PM

Quote :

"^you are basically dancing in circles with the same point. I, too, have this same great service because I have an XM subscription, pandora radio, and whatever else is out there that lets me listen to music while sitting at my desk. *shrug*"

Yes, but on those you're listening to what someone/something else has decided you want to hear.

On Zune/Rhapsody, I get to pick.

(as a side note, this whole thing is making me realize just how owned I'm getting for being a Rhapsody subscriber rather than a Zune subscriber)

11/13/2009 4:23:37 PM

i'll use small words so you understand

you said

Quote :

"the minute you cancel your subscription your 'free cd a month' just went out the window"

that is not true

when you cancel your subscription you keep the 10 songs/month you downloaded

11/13/2009 4:24:56 PM

Quote :

"Yes, but on those you're listening to what someone/something else has decided you want to hear. On Zune/Rhapsody, I get to pick. (as a side note, this whole thing is making me realize just how owned I'm getting for being a Rhapsody subscriber rather than a Zune subscriber)"

I'm confused...I thought you said the player picks songs for you based off of what you're listening to?

11/13/2009 4:25:12 PM

it can

or you can pick songs explicitly

it supports both

11/13/2009 4:26:03 PM

Quote :

"you only keep those 10 songs/month and the other 100000000 songs you downloaded are gone"

Quote :

"i'll use small words so you understand"

its funny when a troll back fires and you just manage to make yourself look dumb.

^ok? so why are we all getting excited about a feature that I can do in other music players? I thought it was something new and unique to Zune.

[Edited on November 13, 2009 at 4:27 PM. Reason : .]

11/13/2009 4:26:23 PM

No actually, Eric and I were talking about that when we were describing Smart DJ.

Stein probably knows what he likes, so he picks his music.

You can do both, without being limited to one.

You see, Zune has more then one feature

11/13/2009 4:26:57 PM

^^ how is it my problem that you contradicted yourself?

[Edited on November 13, 2009 at 4:27 PM. Reason : d]

11/13/2009 4:27:01 PM

^how is it my problem that you can't comprehend?

Quote :

"No actually, Eric and I were talking about that when we were describing Smart DJ. Stein probably knows what he likes, so he picks his music. You can do both, without being limited to one. You see, Zune has more then one feature"

again...what is so unique about this that I can't do else where?

Let me draw a pretty little picture for you...mmmkay?

I said: "the minute you cancel your subscription your 'free cd a month' just went out the window". Notice the pretty little single quotations there? Yes...well SandSanta said that Zune gives you a free cd a month with your subscription to keep forever....well when you CANCEL your zune membership...those free cd's are no longer 'free' because at $15/month thats all you're left with which seems an awful lot to have spent on a 'free cd a month'.

[Edited on November 13, 2009 at 4:31 PM. Reason : .]

11/13/2009 4:27:37 PM

i can list and describe in detail every ipod, itunes, zune, zune marketplace, pandora, and rhapsody feature

i don't think the knowledge deficit is on my side of this conversation

you're the one that stated marketplace and netflix were analogous, which is laughable and false

[Edited on November 13, 2009 at 4:31 PM. Reason : ,]

11/13/2009 4:29:25 PM

Quote :

"You see, Zune has more then one feature "

ummm, why would you ever want more than one feature??? itunes does it this way which means its the only way you would ever want to do it. I cant even fathom doing it that way!!

11/13/2009 4:29:38 PM