^^^you seriously need examples to convince you that members of the Democratic (or Republican) party have lied?

You need examples...for you to be convinced...that politicians...lie...

9/18/2009 11:47:38 AM

Quote :

"Umm.. Nancy Pelosi? Her recent cry-fest interview were obvious scare tactics Almost everything she says is hate directed towards the Republican party. Instead of focusing on actual issues, she wants to make a big deal out of shit like that Wilson comment and milk it for all its worth for the benefit of herself and the Democratic party. Instead of being the speaker of the house, she's just a motherfucking Democratic cheerleader who hates on anything and everything Republican"

Try again, this time without obtuse fear-mongering...

^I'm looking for specific quotes related to the health care debate.

[Edited on September 18, 2009 at 11:48 AM. Reason : ]

9/18/2009 11:47:52 AM

how about WE MUST ACT NOW ON THIS BAILOUT, WE CANNOT WAIT (fear mongering)

9/18/2009 11:48:33 AM

Quote :

"I wonder how much attention his grandparents paid to the challenges he'd face? "

To the first question, I remember he said he was taught to be overly friendly to white women after the "sweetie" incident. I'm sure that's not the only thing they discussed, but I'm sure a ton of things flew right by them too.

Quote :

"I wonder (I seriously don't know) how being raised by adults who weren't directly affected by Jim Crow affected his outlook on life?"

Honestly, I think it gave him a brighter outlook than other black children. God knows how many times I heard someone say "A black person can't succeed in this country" or something to that effect growing up.

Quote :

"Ronald Regan was already a famous actor."

As I understand it, Reagan played up that same cowboy/everyman angle that GWB did, buying a ranch a year before he began running and selling it as soon as he left office.

9/18/2009 11:49:17 AM

Quote :

"WE MUST ACT NOW ON THIS BAILOUT, WE CANNOT WAIT"

Quote :

"“There are disagreements over aspects of the rescue plan,” he said, “but there is no disagreement that something substantial must be done. We are going to get a package passed.”"

Identify the speaker of this quote, lol.

9/18/2009 11:49:55 AM

Quote :

""This plan is not perfect," Obama admitted at the rally in LaCrosse, "Democrats and Republicans in Congress have legitimate concerns about it. I know many Americans share these concerns. But it is clear that this is what we must do right now to prevent a crisis from turning into a catastrophe." "

9/18/2009 11:52:12 AM

Quote :

"Identify the speaker of this quote, lol."

9/18/2009 11:52:36 AM

so you admit Obama is just continuing Bush's policies

but now you love them, since its Obama continuing them

and i refuse to believe thats a quote from Bush...where are all the mispronounced words and "uh"s?

[Edited on September 18, 2009 at 11:54 AM. Reason : .]

9/18/2009 11:53:10 AM

and now you hate them!

ROUND AND ROUND WE GO!!

GOD BLESS AMERICA

9/18/2009 11:57:27 AM

i never liked the bailouts you dumb ass

9/18/2009 11:57:52 AM

Quote :

"As I understand it, Reagan played up that same cowboy/everyman angle that GWB did, buying a ranch a year before he began running and selling it as soon as he left office."

Not quite.......

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rancho_del_Cielo

9/18/2009 12:01:12 PM

Your best example of fear lies and hate is Pelosi stating that dudes coming to the capital and threatening to bring weapons next time while using racism as a crutch is worrisome?

Wow, that is weak sauce.

9/18/2009 12:02:59 PM

^^I stand corrected.

9/18/2009 12:08:22 PM

Yeah-- Pelosi's concerns aren't quite in the same league as the Homeland Security threat level.

She wasn't even using "scare tactics" in any traditional sense. She is scared for other politicians-- not for the public. She's in no way telling the American people to be scared of the teabaggers.

9/18/2009 12:15:24 PM

The bailouts were a faillure of government, not a failure of any particular party. Republicans would have passed a similarly huge bailout, and since we Soap-Boxers are inclined to believe guilty until proven innocent, it's not unreasonable to say they were only objecting to the large bailout because they weren't in power.

9/18/2009 12:22:01 PM

they failed? Is that why the economy is on the upswing? I can't keep track.

9/18/2009 12:25:58 PM

There is no guarantee that the economy is on an upswing. The same economists who told us we had nothing to worry about are the ones that are telling us everything is going to be ok.

Hell, only 10% of the stimulus funds have been spent and Paul Krugman is accrediting them with fixing the economy while, six months ago, he was saying that the 700B package wasn't enough. Well which is it? If 700B wasn't enough, how come 70B was? The truth is, fiscal stimulus has never been shown to positively affect long term economic growth.

Quote :

"Honestly, I think it gave him a brighter outlook than other black children. God knows how many times I heard someone say "A black person can't succeed in this country" or something to that effect growing up."

That is kind of what I'm driving at. Which begs the question, how much racism in the US is real and how much is perceived? How much is Black America's condition a function of outright oppression and how much is a lingering effect of self-depredation. I ask because, believe it or not, I genuinely care. I met so many guys in the Army who were extremely smart and hard working but whose perception was that there was no reason to even try.

Quote :

"As I understand it, Reagan played up that same cowboy/everyman angle that GWB did"

George Bush Sr had a lingering dislike for Regan, from what I understand, largely because while Regan was playing the football hero or the war hero on TV, Bush actually was a pretty good QB for Yale and was actually shot down in the Pacific when he actually served in WWII.


And the entire health care debate is based on fear and hate. "Oh no, those evil profiteers are going to steal your money and leave you to die because of a pre-existing condition. You need the government to come save you from your inevitable fate at the hand of those awful capitalists." I'm not even going to address the concept that politicians lie.

9/18/2009 12:41:13 PM

Quote :

"they failed? Is that why the economy is on the upswing? I can't keep track"

I wouldn't say the economy is on the upswing. Wall St alone is not representative of people's economic concerns.

Perhaps I did mis-speak, because my real point was the bailouts would have happened regardless of who won the election.

9/18/2009 12:55:34 PM

Ah yes, the stimulus package you guys called an ineffective government boondoggle. Let's see how that's working out. We already know the effect on the stock market, but what about jobs?

Quote :

"The truth is, fiscal stimulus has never been shown to positively affect long term economic growth."

Bullshit it hasn't. At the very least, targeted stimulus has been shown to be considerably more effective than tax cuts for the top 2%. Or did you forget how we got into this mess in the first place?



[Edited on September 18, 2009 at 1:41 PM. Reason : :]

9/18/2009 1:41:10 PM

I love trickle-down economics!

*opens mouth, receives piss*

9/18/2009 2:01:10 PM

This stimulus package is targeting wall-street.

Are we loving this trickle yet?

9/18/2009 2:04:30 PM

The general consensus, by even the most ardent of proponents, is that fiscal stimulus takes more than six months to even begin having an effect. Even if it only took one month, the rate at which jobs are being lost had already slowed.

Quote :

"At the very least, targeted stimulus has been shown to be considerably more effective than tax cuts for the top 2%. Or did you forget how we got into this mess in the first place?"

Tax cuts got us into this mess? I'm sorry, I thought it had to do with irrational extension of loans to unworthy credit risks at the encouragement of the Federal Government with the implicit assumption that Fannie Mae would bail out any poor loans.

9/18/2009 2:27:25 PM

really? people are still blaming the whole thing on barney frank and Fannie Mae?

really?

9/18/2009 2:31:10 PM

Tax cuts for the wealthy only, hooray!

9/18/2009 2:32:47 PM

Thanks for the tax cuts!



Zzzzzzzzzz

9/18/2009 2:36:43 PM

Yes, there are rich Black people also!

9/18/2009 2:37:50 PM

Some of then are even Republicans!

9/18/2009 2:38:11 PM

I can post pictures too!

9/18/2009 2:40:07 PM

^^ Congratulations, you're officially worse than hooksaw at his nadir.

Quote :

"really? people are still blaming the whole thing on barney frank and Fannie Mae?"

I'm sorry, did I just see Trickle-down Economics brought up? I was unaware that there was an expiration date on legitimate economic logic.

I didn't mention Barney Frank once, but the fact is that the government leaned on banks to loan to non-credit-worthy applicants. Hell, it inspired the creation of the no-document loan. You didn't even have to prove you had income to buy a house. This isn't a Barney Frank alone issue, GWB pushed it too. For a decade in America it was assumed that owning a home was an inherent good, whether or not you could afford it.

9/18/2009 5:18:38 PM

Pretty good pictures from the Times of the UK.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/photo_galleries/article6832969.ece?slideshowPopup=true&articleId=6832969&nSlide=1§ionName=WorldUSAmericas

9/19/2009 10:34:26 PM

that's a lot of old white people

9/19/2009 10:59:26 PM

In response to the graphs Shrike posted...lol. We expected to lose 300k jobs this month, but only lost 250k! The recession is over and the stimulus worked, right guys??

Quote :

"really? people are still blaming the whole thing on barney frank and Fannie Mae? really?"

I don't know many people that are blaming it entirely on Fannie Mae, but that's definitely a contributing factor. I mean, the whole argument back then was that more people should be able to buy houses...leading to institutions like Fannie Mae (backed by the government's unlimited supply of money) giving out loans to people that really couldn't afford to pay them. That, combined with low interest rates, created an artificial demand for housing, which in turn caused the housing bubble. The housing bubble is just one component of the whole problem: excess consumption, reduced savings (no incentive to save), and lack of production.

Quote :

"I love trickle-down economics! *opens mouth, receives piss*"

Hilariously, anyone that has supported the past bailouts has basically admitted that they agree with trickle-down economics. That stimulus money isn't helping anyone except bankers. Sometimes, you just have to shut your brain off and blindly support Obama, while repeating whatever the mantra of the day is, right?

9/20/2009 11:32:24 AM

TARP and the stimulus are different.

TARP was not passed during the Obama administration.

9/20/2009 12:11:18 PM

^ sometimes you have to shut your brain off to bash Obama supporters.

9/20/2009 12:22:52 PM

Quote :

"really? people are still blaming the whole thing on barney frank and Fannie Mae?"

Just to be clear, I'll add Alan Greenspan, Paul Krugman, George W. Bush, Hank Paulson, and the Federal Reserve in general to this list


Out of curiosity, jwb9984, what do you see as the causes of the current economic crisis?

9/20/2009 2:55:48 PM

bill clinton

9/20/2009 2:58:26 PM

^^ Don't leave out the main contributing factor: recessions happen. They happen even if everyone does everything absolutely right. All irrational excess does is make the recession deeper or change the dates. Even if none of the other contributing factors occurred, we would still have a recession eventually, it would only push it back a few years, since it seems once a decade is a reasonable cycle for our level of development and international integration.

9/20/2009 7:28:56 PM

Quote :

"TARP and the stimulus are different. TARP was not passed during the Obama administration."

Oh, okay. So you were against TARP (under Bush), but for every other bailout (under Obama). Great.

[Edited on September 20, 2009 at 7:39 PM. Reason : ]

9/20/2009 7:32:21 PM

wait, what?

when did i say i was for or against anything?

i'm just here to make sure you understand there is a difference between the stimulus package passed during the obama admin, and TARP, aka the "bailout" passed during the bush admin. because from where i'm sitting, you aren't aware of the difference.

[Edited on September 20, 2009 at 8:18 PM. Reason : .]

9/20/2009 8:06:49 PM

I was referring to this:

Quote :

"really? people are still blaming the whole thing on barney frank and Fannie Mae? really?"

9/20/2009 8:31:19 PM

and i wasn't responding to you

9/20/2009 8:45:06 PM

Quote :

"leading to institutions like Fannie Mae... giving out loans to people that really couldn't afford to pay them."

I've been under the impression that the primary roles of the GSEs were those of insurance and investment of mortgages, as opposed to actually providing them.

Granted, I may be entirely mistaken.

Would anyone care to clarify this for me?

9/20/2009 11:20:59 PM

LITERALLY 2.5 BILLION PEOPLE ATTENDED THE TEA PARTY RALLY IN WASHINGTON DC, LITERALLY.

9/21/2009 12:23:35 PM