BOO HOO HOO the poor schools wahh wahh wahh


Cry me a River. Neighborhood schools are the only things that make rationale sense. If purely by geographic location some schools have higher proportions of rich or "needy" student then so be it.

5/4/2010 11:49:02 AM

Quote :

"Furthermore, they are quick to fall victim to the soft prejudice of low expectations. I know I'm not supposed to admit that such a prejudice exists, but there are all-black charter schools in Raleigh where virtually none of the students are passing their EOGs but these schools are still considered good because they teach about the importance of fatherhood. "

Which schools would these be? I haven't heard of this before.

5/4/2010 11:59:15 AM

Quote :

"1. Bussing does not lower the quality of education in more affluent areas. There is absolutely zero evidence to support your claim that it does. If anything bussing increases the quality of education, as students are exposed to people outside of their neighborhoods and are better prepped for college and working in a global economy. "

Where do I begin? maybe a simple 'bullshit' will suffice for this.

Quote :

"2. Access to a quality education is not a privilege. You cannot plan to send some kids to schools with less emphasis on college prep just because of where they live. Add to that the fact that the neighborhoods we're talking about are largely separated by race, and what you're suggesting is unconscionable."

Let's first tackle your comprehension and reading ability (which we know its not very good). Being able to move to a school outside of your community absolutely should be a privledge. Apparently you think that people in areas with bad schools are incapable of improvement? Are you so racist that you feel the people in poorer neighborhoods are incapable of dealing with the quality of their schools? Why are those schools so bad to begin with? And how does forced busing improve the situation? And just so you know, there are MANY societies all over the world (France is one I know for sure- unless something has changed) that break kids up into groups early on that should go to vocational oriented schools, and those that should go to schools to prepare kids for college. This is nothing new or racist. It is reality. Vocational schools are something we sorely lack. There is nothing demeaning about taking up a trade. Some people are meant to go to college, and some people are meant to take on trades. Stop being so high and mighty and thinking college degrees are the end all be all. Its a scam, and this comes from someone who works in higher education.

And I never stated those with desire shouldnt be able to go to school where they want. You said that, not me. But I dont think schools need to be evenly divided between white/black, poor/rich to be good schools. Thats crap that you people believe.

Quote :

"3. I think the issues you are having stem from a lack of experience with schools and with people in less affluent neighborhoods. I mean, let's say thirty percent of students receiving free and reduced priced lunch pass their EOGs. That is not good. But you're talking about the entire group as potential "space wasters" who need to meet special rules if they want to access rigorous college prep. Lots and lots of people go on to college, regardless of their family's income--even people who flunk courses or get expelled!"

And I have no idea what you are saying here. If a student has the desire to go to school outside their district, they should be allowed. However, since there will be competition for spaces in schools more focused on college prep, they should be required to keep good grades. How is holding students accountable for their grades discrimination? Its a fact of life.


[Edited on May 4, 2010 at 12:03 PM. Reason : .]

5/4/2010 12:01:00 PM

Quote :

"Some people are meant to go to college, and some people are meant to take on trades. Stop being so high and mighty and thinking college degrees are the end all be all. Its a scam, and this comes from someone who works in higher education. "

CarZin logical sense is too difficult for Bridget to understand.

5/4/2010 12:11:38 PM

i'm just baffled as to how you've come to feel that a child who can't "keep his grades up" should not be allowed to attend a magnet school. no child who is struggling should ever be made to feel as if they weren't meant to succeed. you are a heartless bastard.

5/4/2010 5:52:13 PM

Is this the actual map?

^^^ that perspective is only logical if there wasn't a clear achievement gap specifically due to the pre-civil rights racial discrimination.

What do you think caused these lines to start where they have? There has been improvement, but specific actions need to be taken to compensate for the past wrongs that are still prevalent today.

Bussing may not the the best solution, but doing nothing + no bussing is clearly a worse solution (which is what you seem to be advocating).


[Edited on May 4, 2010 at 5:59 PM. Reason : ]

5/4/2010 5:58:14 PM

Quote :

"i'm just baffled as to how you've come to feel that a child who can't "keep his grades up" should not be allowed to attend a magnet school. no child who is struggling should ever be made to feel as if they weren't meant to succeed. you are a heartless bastard."

Its the exact kinda attitude that graduates people from high school in this state that can't read or write. It does a child no good to be placed in classes or schools that they cannot succeed in. If someone is failing to maintain an acceptable grade point average, that child is either motivated to succeed or isnt in the right school/classes to begin with. To ignore that is truly heartless, because its obvious you'd rather graduate an idiot, than actually address their problems and help them succeed.

And yes, if a child cant maintain their GPA at a 'magnet' school in which their is competition, they shouldnt get to stay there.

Moron: You are missing my point. Of course there is a gap. Everyone acknowledges that. But just moving kids to different schools doesnt help much.

[Edited on May 4, 2010 at 6:16 PM. Reason : .]

5/4/2010 6:14:57 PM

Quote :

" its obvious you'd rather graduate an idiot, than actually address their problems and help them succeed."

really? from what i've said you believe THIS is OBVIOUSLY what i believe?!

5/4/2010 6:22:38 PM

Hey, but it's all good as long as they think they can succeed, right? Heaven forbid we tell them early on when it matters that not doing well in school has consequences.

[Edited on May 4, 2010 at 6:26 PM. Reason : .]

5/4/2010 6:26:19 PM

there's a difference bw teaching children that poor school performance can have negative consequences and writing them off as failures.

5/4/2010 6:30:37 PM

Who said you are writing them off as failures? Being placed back into their own neighborhood school isnt some recipe for failure. Its ultimately the kids decision if he/she excels.

However, there are limited spots. Is it right for someone else to be stuck in a school that could really soar in a different environment, while someone else is squandering the opportunity they have been given?

5/4/2010 6:56:06 PM

Quote :

"Its ultimately the kids decision if he/she excels."

you would place that burden on the shoulders of an 8 year old?






[Edited on May 4, 2010 at 7:25 PM. Reason : ]

5/4/2010 7:17:24 PM

No, I expect the parents to do that.

And I was actually reading your mind. Elementary/middle and high schools are really two seperate issues. I agree that in early development, there needs to be more hand holding. I dont know how that shakes out in the community versus busing plans. High school, everything I said stands. And thats mainly where I have been focusing my comments.


[Edited on May 4, 2010 at 7:25 PM. Reason : .]

5/4/2010 7:23:51 PM

i don't believe in punishing children for having idiot parents

yes, there comes a point when that child has reached an age where they should be held responsible for taking their education seriously, but a lot of young children are at a disadvantage when they are attending poor "neighborhood" schools. personally i find this problem most troubling because neighborhood schools should be consistently high performing across the country, but as we've all said at some point this is not the case.

[Edited on May 4, 2010 at 7:25 PM. Reason : ]

5/4/2010 7:24:54 PM

See my edit. I honestly understand the issues are different pre high school.

5/4/2010 7:26:34 PM

i'm mostly focused on elementary schools as i work in one and i know a lot of the issues regarding districting in this county are mostly effecting elementary schools right now. but i see your points.

[Edited on May 4, 2010 at 7:31 PM. Reason : ]

5/4/2010 7:29:49 PM

Quote :

"Moron: You are missing my point. Of course there is a gap. Everyone acknowledges that. But just moving kids to different schools doesnt help much. "

What does help?

There's no evidence that i've seen that it hurts, and there is at least marginal evidence that it helps. And just conceptually, i would think it would definitely help.

5/4/2010 7:44:36 PM

Quote :

"In the first meeting of the superintendent search committee, members of the board minority questioned potentially spending the $100,000 it might cost to pay a search firm when an internal applicant might be chosen. Members of the board majority said they’d consider a current employee but argued they need a firm to help them conduct a search to get the best applicants from across the nation."

Read more: http://www.newsobserver.com/2010/05/07/471913/wake-school-board-discusses-superintendent.html#ixzz0nJpDuE79

Burn through that money

5/8/2010 2:58:01 AM

Dear Wake County School Board:

Monster.com 60 day listing: $395
Monster.com 3 month National Resume Search: $5,200
TriangleHelpWanted.com 60 day listing: $650
3x people to filter ad results and just cold call around the country to potential candidates full time for 3 months at $15 / hour: 21,600

Saving the tax payers $72,155 ..... priceless

5/8/2010 7:50:09 AM

Quote :

"RALEIGH -- Wake County parents won't be appealing directly to school board members this year if they want to change their child's school assignment. Each year, thousands of families file transfer requests, which are initially reviewed by staff. Requests that are rejected can be appealed to the school board. The board hears about 1,000 appeals a year. However, school board members agreed to have staff members hear the appeals to rejected requests. This change will cut down on the work load for board members who will still have to make the final decisions on the appeals but without meeting parents. Appeal hearings have traditionally been heard by a panel of two board members who make recommendations to the full board. "

Read more: http://www.newsobserver.com/2010/05/07/471003/wake-staff-to-get-transfer-appeals.html#ixzz0nPPOtk7P

I wonder how many of the applications actually get to the appeals process to warrant this change.

5/9/2010 1:53:17 AM

Quote :

"Who said you are writing them off as failures? Being placed back into their own neighborhood school isnt some recipe for failure. Its ultimately the kids decision if he/she excels."

And do you honestly think that immersing a child even further in an atmosphere of low expectations will motivate them to excel? I agree with you that it should be the parents responsibility to ensure that kids have the support necessary to succeed in school but if you think that this happens/will happen in southeast raleigh you clearly need to take a drive down that way.

Quote :

"However, there are limited spots. Is it right for someone else to be stuck in a school that could really soar in a different environment, while someone else is squandering the opportunity they have been given?"

The catch is that in the current system, there is little concern about limited spots. Sure, some schools are better than others, but not to the point where top flight kids are being stifled. Its about providing all kids the best opportunities and environment to succeed. This simply will not happen in certain parts of our district if true neighborhood schools are implemented. I dont care how much money and resources you throw at the problem, schools in less affluent neighborhoods will fall way behind the rest of the county.

As I mentioned previously, simply allowing families the option to attend schools outside of their attendance zone will have the opposite result of what you suggest. Durham is a prime example of this strategy going awry. The only people who will opt out of their base school in poor neighborhoods will be those with both motivation and means. What is left is a school that will fail.

BUT this is all really smoke and mirrors. The most vocal advocates of neighborhood schools and eliminating the diversity policy are not those who are bussed in any significant way. Population shifts will continue to occur and attendance zones realigned every so often. People living near these lines will still be redistricted periodically and will continue to bitch and moan about it. The only difference will be that these schools will have far fewer poor kids.

5/11/2010 9:47:14 PM

Quote :

"Affluent exiting poorer schools in Wake RALEIGH -- Hundreds of middle-class Wake County families are leaving crowded, high-poverty schools for magnets and year-rounds thanks to the school board's decision to quit using their relative wealth as a reason to deny their applications. Now that those barriers have been eased, poverty levels are expected to increase at a number of other Wake County schools. "

Read more: http://www.newsobserver.com/2010/05/12/478395/affluent-exitingpoorer-schools.html#ixzz0niDgztPm

And so it begins.

5/12/2010 7:05:46 AM

Parents with control over the quality of their child's education!!!! OH NOES!!!!!!

5/12/2010 7:49:27 AM

Quote :

"Rich parents with control over the quality of their child's education!!!!"

You know it's going to be the poor kids getting the shaft unfortunately

5/12/2010 9:38:24 AM

why do they want to become durham public schools?

5/12/2010 11:38:43 AM

^^ I'm sorry, I must have missed where the new policies say if your household income is < 100k, you can't switch schools.

5/12/2010 1:26:03 PM

I hate Hui!

Lack of access to magnet schools among some families is probably the only legitimate complaint that parents had, and of course, Hui writes a freakin' front page article about it. Everything else he writes for the news has been technical and newsy (the way it should be), and this article is like, "Yay! Parents finally get what they deserve!"

His blogs are a billion times worse.

If you read the numbers in the article, it's like a few hundred families that actually benefit, which is good. But we didn't have to overhaul the whole system to make this happen; furthermore, a few families getting their kids into magnet schools does not justify the overhaul...

5/12/2010 10:15:34 PM

^ Yeah I hate his blogs so much. Half the time I'm not even sure what point he's trying to make.

5/12/2010 10:24:24 PM

Wait wait wait

Quote :

"School board recommends Friday early release days RALEIGH -- It looks like Wake County students won’t be getting out early on Wednesdays at all for the upcoming school year. The school board voted 6-2 today to send students home 2 1/2 hours early on six Fridays a year instead of the Wednesdays now used for these early release days. "

Read more: http://www.newsobserver.com/2010/05/18/488786/school-board-recommends-friday.html#ixzz0oM7Kttqb

Call me crazy, but didn't they campaign on getting rid of early release days? I don't think moving them to a different day really fulfills that campaign promise

5/19/2010 2:54:58 AM

No.... early release days are only a few times a year and used for trainings, etc. Early dismissal is what is happening EVERY wednesday and that's what they did away with.

5/19/2010 7:10:19 AM

TRUE STORY: At my job I work an extra two hours every Friday just so we can have a staff meeting outside of regular hours.

5/19/2010 8:14:04 AM

^^Yay, now we get to stay late on Fridays.

5/19/2010 8:22:42 AM

I don't think that means you stay late on fridays, though I didn't read the whole article. The kids leave early and we stay til the usual time.

5/19/2010 12:19:41 PM

The usual time for training days is almost always well after the usual leave time.

5/19/2010 12:34:55 PM

That sucks! Not us though with all the changes I wouldn't be surprised

5/19/2010 1:21:55 PM

neighborhood, year around schools make the most sense to me.

maximize space, minimize travel and instill community pride.

a community and accountable atmosphere will do more for a underachieving child than going to school in an affluent neighborhood.

most of the affluent neighborhoods are pretty damn diverse anyway.

5/19/2010 2:40:01 PM

Quote :

"RALEIGH -- In an apparent effort to fix two problems at once, Wake County school board chairman Ron Margiotta asked a board committee Tuesday to consider putting Wake's magnet schools on a year-round schedule whenever possible. Margiotta, whose idea caused a stir among magnet supporters, couldn't be at the meeting of the student assignment committee, but he sent a statement on several topics to be read by committee chairman John Tedesco. Wake County's magnet schools couldn't accept all the students who applied this year, while some year-round schools have been under-enrolled. "

Read more: http://www.newsobserver.com/2010/05/26/500608/year-round-magnets-proposed.html#ixzz0p5giSTlG

I thought part of their campaign was eliminating year-round schools. I might be mistaken though.

5/26/2010 9:54:47 PM

from what i've heard, year round schools actually don't save money, they cost more, according to my coworker's wife, who has been a teacher in wake for several decades.

i guess the only advantage is that we don't have to have as many buildings, which is clearly an issue in Wake now.

5/27/2010 12:19:40 AM

do you have any statistics to support that? not saying you're wrong but i've heard differently from administrators and i'm interested to see any research done on the topic

5/27/2010 7:26:50 AM

Quote :

"DaBird: most of the affluent neighborhoods are pretty damn diverse anyway."

Name one.

5/28/2010 12:35:25 AM

My neighborhood was diverse but I guess it would be considered squarely in the middle class range. My neighbor was from Korea and would always bring me dumplings on the weekends

5/28/2010 4:49:10 AM

NPR doing a segment about neighborhood schools and Wake County.




rich cunt talking about her kid's deserving more than poor kids.

[Edited on June 7, 2010 at 12:42 PM. Reason : ]

6/7/2010 12:18:34 PM

Can you post a link to it? (Or I could find it later, but thanks in advance )

6/7/2010 2:31:18 PM

^ http://thestory.org/archive/the_story_1053_Fay_Cobb_Payton_and_Debra_Goldman.mp3



you can tell dick gordon wanted to lay in to this woman but held off.

the woman says that the school her son was bussed to was a good school. but she wanted to have her son in a community school. meanwhile, she sends her daughter to a magnet school because it's better.

[Edited on June 7, 2010 at 5:36 PM. Reason : ]

6/7/2010 5:11:28 PM

Quote :

"Name one."

name one all white neighborhood.

drive through preston, mcgregor west, cameron pond, copperleaf, etc.....and they all have asian families, indian families, white families and black families.

I am a GC and work in these different neighborhoods all the time. what is your frame of reference?

6/7/2010 5:16:58 PM

^that's awesome. but not all neighborhoods in wake county are as diverse as cary. those are the ones that need the diversity.

[Edited on June 7, 2010 at 5:40 PM. Reason : ]

6/7/2010 5:21:47 PM

I posted those Cary neighborhoods because they are affluent. a lot of people here are assuming that only white people inhabit the wealthier neighborhoods and that isnt the case. most of the housing and neighborhoods in Wake County have been built during the population explosion of the last 30 years and are full of all different types of people.


the people crying the segregation tears are crying over neighborhoods that make up less than ~10% of Wake County...and those neighborhoods are either "old" Raleigh or the predominantly black neighborhoods of SE Raleigh (which feed into arguably the nicest school in the county)

6/7/2010 10:54:26 PM

^^^^ That story just made me

6/11/2010 10:38:48 AM

^^^^^
http://thestory.org/archive/the_story_1053_Fay_Cobb_Payton_and_Debra_Goldman.mp3/view

If Debra Goldman's statements are true, it does seem like they weren't operating the system very efficiently. I don't see why it means the bussing system needed to be dismantled though.

Likewise, Fay's story is very touching, but it doesn't really mean there must be bussing. Fay's issue was concerns over lower quality textbooks, which is easily fixed compared to the times she grew up in.

Goldman's issues seem like they would be fixed if there was a mandate that schools shouldn't be overcrowded if there are under capacity schools around.

[Edited on June 12, 2010 at 12:22 PM. Reason : ]

6/12/2010 11:55:05 AM

Quote :

"Goldman's issues seem like they would be fixed if there was a mandate that schools shouldn't be overcrowded if there are under capacity schools around."

Yep. Seems like an easier fix too.

6/13/2010 10:51:45 AM