8 years to get a degree free!

10/9/2011 9:13:25 PM

Quote :

"So what I got from that hippie chart is that they would be happy if you could go to school, rack up hundreds of thousands of dollars in student loan debt, then declare bankruptcy upon graduation. That or allow everyone to default on taking out a loan with no penalty."

I believe the benefit to the students of the crazy rules is that they can get lower rates because of it.

Abolishing the rules and applying normal debt protections to student loans will make student loans harder to get, and fewer people will correspondingly go to college, or at least, expensive colleges.

Why not? Why is it better to treat student loans differently? All of these free market enthusiasts are double-talking on the issue. They say that too many people are going to college, but prefer current laws that insist that students be held liable above and beyond other loans. That doesn't make sense.

10/9/2011 9:58:30 PM

You'd have to be pretty fucking naive to think you could make 50K right out of college with any random ass degree.

10/9/2011 10:27:02 PM

^Yes, but isn't that pretty much the impression that the NACE and the universities that quote it are trying to give?

When you tell future business management majors that the average offer to those with that degree, at graduation, is $46k and rising, do you expect an 18 year-old to have enough life experience and knowledge of the world 'out there' to see that it's bullshit? When nationally recognized organizations and the university they will attend all tout the same figure, then what do we expect them to think?

Shoot, a $30-35k job that gets you real, marketable skills at a real company with some chance of advancement would be better than the median fresh offer for a business major, I would guess. I've known a lot of them, and worked with a lot of them.

Parents should have the sense to see through it, especially any of them who have degrees. But the lies are placed front and center, with a lot of credentials and respectability behind them. The whole thing is rotten, and I would have no problem slapping fines or lawsuits on anyone that does this, including State.

10/10/2011 3:30:38 AM

Quote :

"You'd have to be pretty fucking naive to think you could make 50K right out of college with any random ass degree."

I can't think of many 18-22 year olds (my 10 year ago self included) that weren't pretty naive.

10/10/2011 11:33:09 AM

I think the key is to abolish worthless degrees.

10/10/2011 11:56:29 AM

Well, I thought I'd make that but I was in engineering. If you looked at the avg starting salary for other degrees they were much lower.

10/10/2011 2:36:19 PM

That's the problem I hate most with a lot of college kids. They seem to think that earning a degree entitles them to a job out of college (even more, a high paying job).

then they graduate with their degrees, no work experience, no credit. Can't get a house loan, car loan, can barely pass the background check to get an apartment lease and has a bare bones resume because they were playing NCAA 2012 instead of working part time to get experience in school.

Then they bitch because it's the market that sucks. "There's no jobs in my field," is a phrase I've heard to often lately it makes me sick. There are jobs in your field, it's just that they are going to people more qualified than you.

10/10/2011 3:51:01 PM

Quote :

"That's the problem I hate most with a lot of college kids. They seem to think that earning a degree entitles them to a job out of college (even more, a high paying job)."

Why do they believe that?

10/10/2011 4:33:12 PM

Quote :

"-A 6.5% Campus-Initiated Tuition Increase (CITI) this year. This is retained at NC State to enhance campus programs and instruction. -A one time "Catch-Up" tuition increase implemented over the next 5 years. The UNC Board of Governors mandates that all UNC system schools keep their tuition/fees in the bottom quartile of their 16 peer institutions to help meet the "as free as practicable" clause of the NC Constitution. This increase would allow NC State to increase their tution 9%, but it would still keep NCSU in the bottom quartile as required by the UNC Board of Governors. "Catch-Up" Increase According to Chancellor Woodson, the additional increase of $234 every year for 5 years will be used to: add 200 new faculty positions over 4 years, reduce class sizes, increase number of sections, increase faculty and staff salaries, focus resources on advising and student support, and to support the Graduate Student Support Plan. At least 25% of each year's increase will go to financial aid. NC State Tuition Quick Fact Sheet -Over the last 5 years, NC State has lost nearly $200 million because of budget cuts -NC State currently has the 2nd lowest Tuition & Fees of its 16 Peer institutions (Full-time, In-state residents, Undergrad). -The total *potential* tuition increase over the next 5 years is as follows (Full-Time, In-state, Undergrads): 2012-2013 $649; 2013-2014 $723; 2014-2015 $770; 2015-2016 $820; 2016-2017 $873 (The proposed increases of tution listed here assumes that the CITI will max out at 6.5% every year for the next 5 years, but that is not necessarily the case). -Tuition & Fees for this year is $6,874 (In-state, Full Time, Undergrad). By 2016-2017 it could be $10,707."

Holy shit. 6.5% tuition increase?

11/17/2011 6:03:26 PM

^6.5% seems to be the magic number. There was a 6.5% increase when I was a senior. NC State is one of those "best valued universities" which means we're under market price.

It would be as if you are buying a product 30% under market price and now you are only getting it for 25% under market price. Still sucks to have to pay it but the alternative is allows NC State's growth to stagnate. There's still a lot of undeveloped land over on Centennial.

11/18/2011 9:32:28 AM

Quote :

"Holy shit. 6.5% tuition increase?"

6.5% is the maximum yearly amount they can increase tuition. Note that is unsustainable over the long term due to compounding interest.

You should also be mad about the "one time" 40% increase that they are phasing in over the next 5 years.

http://www.wral.com/news/education/story/10393483/

11/18/2011 11:33:57 AM

You'd think that with the advancement in technology and the efficiency with which information can now be disseminated; costs should be going down.

IMO, guaranteed loans by the Gov't has inflated the cost of education and has allowed bloated policies to create inefficiencies.

11/18/2011 11:57:51 AM

^Problem is, universities are still stuck in the "students must be here" mentality. They don't want to be seen as a degree mill like Phoenix, Strayer, etc. The perception is those schools aren't as elite and more akin to a community college degree, and universities are afraid to open their classes up to larger groups and not require attendance. Additionally labs and other hands on units have to be done with live attendance and groups are often constrained on building size for that.

I am one of the people in charge of lecture capture at the Med School. We can put this stuff out so anybody could stream or download all of the lecture portions of the class and never physically appear for the rooms that are properly equipped for this (which is only a small portion of our larger rooms). That part is easy. But doing all of the dissection classes, labs, etc. is VERY constrained by the physical size of the building. Also once you get through year 1 and 2 you have to do your residency in a teaching hospital. That is also quite limited by the teaching hospitals size themselves (one reason why UNCH bought Rex). They are still trying to slowly grow class size, but around here it would be impossible to just double all the class sizes, because you would have no room to physically put all of these kids for classes and labs. Technology is helping, but it is also very expensive to get going, and has to be factored in with a yearly budget for replacement and upgrade, which is also not cheap. It helps, but it is not the silver bullet to make classes cheaper. In some ways it can even make them more expensive.

11/18/2011 12:29:37 PM

Quote :

"IMO, guaranteed loans by the Gov't has inflated the cost of education and has allowed bloated policies to create inefficiencies."

Yes, yes it has.

If you want to read a bit, go read a few of these essays (these are just the ones tagged "Education", there are plenty more on the home page):
http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?blog=Market-Ticker&page=1&cat=Education

11/18/2011 12:54:26 PM