Trump and the GOP are morally bankrupt sociopaths and passing this is just one example of that. It is time to prepare to seek revenge against the Republicans and poor money into the 25 most vulnerable seats for 2018.

5/4/2017 9:19:30 PM

Quote :

"poor money into"

this trumpcare bill is a disaster folks. they manage to make most of the problems worse similar to every other bill that passes congress. holy shit it was dumb to put these clowns in charge of something as important as healthcare

5/5/2017 6:41:20 AM

https://twitter.com/randpaul/status/860482401109258242

I guess golfing with Trump gives everyone the sickness. Guy freely admitted he had no evidence too. JFC.

5/5/2017 1:43:33 PM

John McCain did accuse Rand of "working for Vladimir Putin" several months ago when they were trying to get Montenegro signed up for NATO. I think they yelled at each other during a vote and the Rand just walked out. Something like that.

[Edited on May 5, 2017 at 2:29 PM. Reason : Not that McCain isn't senile and a war monger and likely totally wrong.]

5/5/2017 2:28:05 PM

Any thoughts on why support among Trump voters for the AHCA would have increased from 50% to 75% between March and May?

Did they just buy into the idea that $8 billion would be sufficient to support the proposed high-risk pool?

[Edited on May 8, 2017 at 3:16 PM. Reason : ]

5/8/2017 3:16:26 PM

Because he says it's better and/or they just want him to have a win.

5/8/2017 10:51:56 PM

No one is talking about how insurance companies have raised premiums under obamacare while receiving record profits. Democrats especially don't want to talk about how ACA is a charade to protect corporate profits while claiming to achieve universal healthcare. They really do want to have their beautiful piece of chocolate cake and eat it too.


This healthcare "debate" is a joke really. Neither side wants people to have affordable coverage. Imagine if the government required everyone to buy a product in my store.

[Edited on May 9, 2017 at 1:04 AM. Reason : I'd raise prices too]

5/9/2017 1:03:20 AM

Profits have soared because these companies are coordinating between themselves to create mini-monopolies state per state. Once a state is stuck with one provider in their network the company is then free to jack up premiums all they want.

5/9/2017 8:51:57 AM

My point is that is happening under the system create by democrats and they don't seem to care because their team won.

5/9/2017 4:32:15 PM

^What do you expect Democrats to do? And define their team "won". If you mean Obamacare was passed, sure. But again, what do you expect them to do now that they have lost the presidency, senate, and house?

In other circumstances I expect Democrats would take action to fix things with Obamacare, but it's a bit much to expect them to be able to do that currently.

5/9/2017 7:09:14 PM

i would have wanted them to be critical of obamacare before it was passed and before they were out of office but instead they championed it as if it was the greatest thing ever.

They should have fixed it when they had complete control. The fact that they didn't tells me they don't really want to fix it. What you do when you have complete control says a lot about what you want. Apparently, the democrats want record profits for insurance companies. Hmmm....

I also kind of agree with the idea that they are scared to fix things, because then, they'll have nothing to run on fixing.

5/9/2017 7:33:24 PM

When, since Obamacare went into effect, have Democrats been in full control?

And Democrats originally wanted a public option for Obamacare; GOP eliminated that.

5/9/2017 7:44:39 PM

The democrats, not the GOP were fully in control in December 2009 when senate democrats shot down the public option. I don't know how you got the history switched.

5/9/2017 7:50:20 PM

Lieberman. What a dick.

[Edited on May 9, 2017 at 7:52 PM. Reason : Was actually a Bernie I at the time tho]

5/9/2017 7:51:38 PM

and you can bet they have gotten campaign contributions from the same insurance companies they sold us out to

5/9/2017 7:58:17 PM

^^^When, *since Obamacare went into effect*, have Democrats been in full control? You know, so they could tweak it as it was being realized.

And regarding the public option, I suppose I stand corrected. However, to some extent it is a matter of perspective. The public option was proposed by Democrats. Only Democrats voted for it. Republicans unanimously voted against it. It is true it would have passed if it had received more Democrat support, but I think it is disingenuous to simply ignore the fact that the only support it got was from Democrats.

5/9/2017 8:42:10 PM

And looking a little further, I'm somewhat more inclined to stick with my original claim that it was indeed the GOP that shut down the public option.

I don't know, I'm asking: Could the Obamacare bill have even passed the Senate with the public option in tact, or would it have been filibustered to death?

Quote :

"“There’s a lot to like about a public option,” Mr. Baucus said, but he asserted that the idea could not get the 60 votes needed to overcome a Republican filibuster on the Senate floor."

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/30/health/policy/30health.html

5/9/2017 8:58:12 PM

I guess we're responding to this troll?

Quote :

"instead [Democrats] championed [The Affordable Care Act] as if it was the greatest thing ever"

This is false; hardly any Democrats featured The Affordable Care Act in their campaigns until, what, the 2016 election? There may have been some tepid support during the 2014 midterm election, but even then...

5/9/2017 9:39:28 PM

Quote :

""“There’s a lot to like about a public option,” Mr. Baucus said, but he asserted that the idea could not get the 60 votes needed to overcome a Republican filibuster on the Senate floor.""

Yeah they could have changed the rules if it was something they really wanted.

Quote :

"Fifty-two Senate Democrats and independents voted to weaken the power of the filibuster. The change reduces the threshold from 60 votes to 51 votes for Senate approval of executive and judicial nominees against unanimous GOP opposition. "

http://dailysignal.com/2010/01/29/congress%E2%80%99-new-secret-plan-to-pass-obamacare-%E2%80%93-the-nuclear-option/

5/9/2017 10:29:17 PM

The Nuclear Option has its own political fallout. I'm sure many preferred passing Obamacare without resorting to it.

And what was your point again? The fact that we've come this far in debating it is a good indication that it was not as clear cut as you made it out to be.

5/9/2017 11:11:23 PM

exactly my point! "Fuck universal healthcare. We gotta make sure we win elections."
Attitude of Democrats circa 2010

Its clear cut that they could have done it. You aren't even really arguing that. Obviously, there would have been fallout and it would've taken courage. There was fallout from Obamacare. Obamacare got them out and gave us trump because it didn't work for either side. At least if they went down passing public option, everyone would be insured. You can't do anything meaningful without taking on any risk.

Everybody lost with Obamacare. It never had a chance of lasting, lost democrats everything, and didn't insure everyone. All it did was raise profits.

[Edited on May 9, 2017 at 11:25 PM. Reason : n]

[Edited on May 9, 2017 at 11:26 PM. Reason : alright]

5/9/2017 11:21:10 PM

Quote :

"Its clear cut that they could have done it. You aren't even really arguing that."

It's not clear to me, and why do you say I am not arguing that? Some Democrats supported it, some did not; I honestly don't know if single payer could have been passed or not. And if it had, I think it's reasonable to expect the Republican backlash against it might have been even worse. You know what they say about hindsight; I feel like you're coming off as a Monday morning quarterback here.

But to claim that Democrats "don't seem to care because their team won" is bullshit. If their team actually HAD won in the years since the bill's passage, I'm sure we would see efforts to improve Obamacare, instead of GOP attempts to dismantle it.

5/9/2017 11:34:37 PM

In other words, consider this:

Passing single payer doesn't do a hell of a lot of good if the backlash costs you your seat and your successor immediately votes to repeal it.

This is worth considering, I believe.

5/9/2017 11:45:24 PM

There is a lot of overlap in what we are saying.

I'm saying:

"It could have passed if democrats wanted it"

You're saying:

"It couldn't have passed because democrats didn't want it"

Quote :

" I think it's reasonable to expect the Republican backlash against it might have been even worse. You know what they say about hindsight; I feel like you're coming off as a Monday morning quarterback here."

It would have been worse but so would the implications of them trying to repeal a system that works and gives everyone affordable coverage. The people would be happy with it (especially working class republicans). It would be a lot more difficult to take away single payer than to give it. Part of why the GOP are so against it is because they know taking away functioning welfare programs ("free stuff" as they call it) is nearly impossible.

FYI the government already pays for medicare very close to what single payer would cost to cover the entire nation's population. I know it sounds crazy (because it is) but it makes sense if you think about how insurance pools, administrative costs, and economies of scale.

[Edited on May 10, 2017 at 12:18 AM. Reason : We spend far more (~double) than anywhere in the world for the same care]

5/10/2017 12:13:48 AM

Quote :

"You're saying: "It couldn't have passed because democrats didn't want it""

No, that's not what I'm saying. I am saying that SOME Democrats DID want it, but SOME Democrats either did not think it could pass without invoking the nuclear option, or thought the backlash would be too severe.

For the record, I'm not arguing against single payer; I would have preferred that over Obamacare. However, it's never been clear to me single payer was as doable as Obamacare.

For example, you agree that the backlash to single payer may have been more severe. And I agree that single payer, once implemented, would be harder to remove than Obamacare.

However, Obamacare exchanges did not open until 2013, three years after the bill passed. What if, in a more severe backlash against single payer, the single payer plan was repealed before it was even implemented?

5/10/2017 1:02:59 AM

History is going to look like kindly on guys like Sasse.

McConnell, Cruz and Rubio....

5/10/2017 10:10:35 AM

"The wrong side of history" was a favorite phrase of Obama. And Karl Marx

eh comrades?

5/10/2017 1:41:30 PM

bleep bloop beep

5/10/2017 1:44:31 PM

I used to roll my eyes when the JCE types said "you can't protest everytime you don't get your way" but protesting because the wrong person fired the guy you wanted fired really does render everything you've ever protested meaningless.

How long ago did Hillary show up and say she had the election won until comey's letter? That was like a week ago? Now they are protesting over him losing his job. What?

5/11/2017 7:59:02 PM

I wouldn't say its because he lost his job, but more so the circumstances. If Trump had fired him right off the bat using the whole "how he handled hillary's emails" story I don't think they would have cared. But waiting until the FBI is getting deeper into the Russia investigation and initially lying about his motivations for doing it, makes it look pretty questionable to them.

5/12/2017 7:51:13 AM

He's also doing that thing where he treats all people who dislike Trump is a monolith. I mean, I defended Comey on this very page of the thread BEFORE he got fired.

[Edited on May 12, 2017 at 7:55 AM. Reason : Shit, actually it was in the other thread]

5/12/2017 7:54:37 AM

this is probably too nuanced for earl, but you can both not like the way Comey handled the Clinton email issue and not like the obvious reason he was fired; these are not contradicting opinions

5/12/2017 8:30:44 AM

Or you can simply hate everything Trump does because the media tells you to, which we all know is what you do.

Trump could develop the cure for cancer and you leftist hacks would spam a few NYT articles finding a way to spin it as a negative.

5/12/2017 9:39:53 AM

Low energy this morning. Sad!

5/12/2017 9:44:56 AM

I'm not sure which I despise more.

The leftists (communists) blatantly trying to destroy our country

Or the republican cucks cucking themselves to cuck city letting our country get cucked.

Sad!

5/12/2017 10:01:31 AM

5/12/2017 10:12:17 AM

Quote :

"this is probably too nuanced for earl, but you can both not like the way Comey handled the Clinton email issue and not like the obvious reason he was fired; these are not contradicting opinions"

so why put so much energy into the way he got fired when there are actually real problems going on? Of all the injustices in this country, you choose to put 100% of your energy and attention on the timing of the firing of a guy you accused of affecting the election who you wanted to be fired anyway?

People are actually marching for this.

5/12/2017 11:55:49 PM

Good job proving his point man

5/13/2017 8:54:39 AM

Not really. His point was basically the typical style where "anyone who disagrees is stupid". Sure you can not like Comey and be appalled by alleged collisions with Russia but where has this outrage been before trump? Previous administrations have colluded with other countries and no one ever gave a shit. The obsession with Russia is also sudden. No one really gave a shit about what happened in Georgia and Russia was almost irrelevant until they interfered against Obama's terrorist proxy war in Syria.

The story about Bush colluding with Saudis during 9/11 and any president colluding with Saudis never gained any ground. Conspiracy theories were never even covered during the Obama administration.

I hate Trump but you guys are giving him high ground. He has played the media/left from day 1. The photo op in the oval office was done solely to get a rise out of you and shift everyones attention to conspiracy theories that make you look silly. It diminishes all of the real criticisms we have about Trump. Criticism itself loses credibility. There is a long list of things everyone knows he has done and we aren't even talking about them. Instead, we are reaching for something out of a spy novel.

It looks like Trump is the one who is too nuanced for all of you. He mindfucked his way through the primaries and into the white house, despite being the weakest candidate I've ever seen. Now he's mindfucking his way to a second term.

[Edited on May 13, 2017 at 1:24 PM. Reason : jeez]

5/13/2017 1:22:00 PM

^^^so I can't speak for anyone else but I can say this.

At the time that he decided to announce the Weiner emails, I was pretty upset about that. An important point to note here is that he never explained why. I never called for his resignation or thought he was a bad person (he is actually one of the most respected individuals in D.C.) but I was sitting there wondering why on earth he did that.

The other week, he testified and explained his reasoning. And whether you still disagree with the decision he made, his explanation made a lot of sense to me and after hearing that, my confidence was actually dramatically increased in his position overseeing the Russian investigation. Had he seen it to its completion and announced there was nothing to worry about, I would gladly have believed him and moved on with life.

So, in that context, if anyone else went through the same process I did, then there is absolutely no incongruity between wanting him ousted in October and wanting him to stay on now.

More importantly, the fact that we were given six different stories (as is customary when multiple people are trying to explain things without communicating and while some of those people are lying and trying to keep stories straight), is highly suspicious and only further entrenches the belief that there is something significant waiting to be uncovered in this investigation.

5/13/2017 4:23:53 PM

no one is putting 100% of their energy into why comey got fired

5/14/2017 10:56:03 AM

^also, that

5/14/2017 11:03:44 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRfZhPPP57I

5/14/2017 5:29:33 PM

Don't have any opinion but I've always found Gutfield legit funny. And he's a Mets fan.

5/14/2017 5:57:58 PM

https://nyti.ms/2q9B5Pr

Pretty acurate and explains why, at least so far, GOP governance this time around has been one big dumpster fire.

5/15/2017 10:00:22 AM

Thom Tillis is in the hospital

5/17/2017 9:12:55 AM

Hope he's okay. Heard they had to perform CPR.

5/17/2017 10:17:43 AM

LOL at JCE using alt-right nazi phrases like cuck.

5/17/2017 12:41:02 PM

Meanwhile, in Montana:

Greg Gianforte 'Body Slams' Reporter (audio only)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhoH4v8xYlU

5/24/2017 10:27:09 PM

^ It's worth noting the account of the Fox News reporter, who was present at the scene, during the altercation:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/05/24/greg-gianforte-fox-news-team-witnesses-gop-house-candidate-body-slam-reporter.html

Quote :

"Gianforte grabbed Jacobs by the neck with both hands and slammed him into the ground behind him. Faith, Keith and I watched in disbelief as Gianforte then began punching the man, as he moved on top the reporter and began yelling something to the effect of 'I'm sick and tired of this!'"

5/24/2017 11:35:37 PM