yeah, it's the full size supertuck w/o the combat cut. i know what you're talking about with interfering with your grip. i kinda wish i had gotten the combat cut. i'm gonna give it some more time and practice with it.

8/3/2010 5:45:13 PM

You can send it in later if you decide you want it.

8/3/2010 7:25:47 PM

time to start crossbow shopping

8/3/2010 7:56:47 PM

no kidding....hunting with a crossbow on sundays would be awesome

8/3/2010 8:43:34 PM

Wheres a good place to get a handgun or home defense shotgun on the cheap?

looking to get my CCL as well.

8/3/2010 9:31:11 PM

pawn shops are good for HD shotguns. or look at used stuff on consignment at gun shops. you should only spend about $200.

take Rush's CC class. it's only $60 and he's good people.

[Edited on August 3, 2010 at 10:03 PM. Reason : afsd]

8/3/2010 10:02:24 PM

^^ I've had good experiences here:

I'm not sure about cheap... but fair prices...

here
carolinashootersforum
fuquay gun and gold


as for your CCH course, rush is popular on here, so that's a recommendation. I also highly recommend the guy I took, though I'll need to look up his information. I should also still have a list of all CCH instructors in wake county, but I'll need to look for it (it is about 2 years old, though I don't know how much it really changes)

8/3/2010 10:04:37 PM

^^^ Got mine @ Fuquay Gun and Gold. It was ~350 for a Mossberg 500 Tactical Persuader with a few upgrades that make it pretty neato

8/4/2010 1:53:51 PM

$685 for a new Savage 12 FVSS in 22-250

should i do it, tdub?

8/4/2010 4:10:42 PM

I don't know if that's a good price or not, but that sure is a sweet rifle.

8/4/2010 4:18:01 PM

seems in line with prices on gunbroker and i don't have to pay shipping or ffl

[Edited on August 4, 2010 at 4:25 PM. Reason : could just get one of those howa rifles and save some money. love the savage accutrigger, though.]

8/4/2010 4:23:11 PM

I'd definitely go for it then. With that said, ammo costs vs. .223 may not be worth the performance advantage to some, but I'm sure you're aware of that. Not a problem if you handload.

8/4/2010 4:25:56 PM

i'll probably have one of those one day as well

and i'd like to get into handloading when i have a workshop. not really feasible now. just need to blast some groundhogs at the moment.

[Edited on August 4, 2010 at 4:38 PM. Reason : asfd]

8/4/2010 4:37:34 PM

Well if that's all you need, just pm me your address

8/4/2010 4:43:44 PM

^^Those little bitches are all over Person County. I see them on the side of the road every time I go out on Hyco.



[Edited on August 4, 2010 at 4:45 PM. Reason : .]

8/4/2010 4:44:34 PM

i don't really need to kill them. it's my landlord's land. i just think they'll be fun to blow up.

8/4/2010 4:51:36 PM

Well if that's the case, let me present to you:

8/4/2010 4:54:38 PM

You can't kill 'em too dead.

8/4/2010 5:02:49 PM

well, i'd at least like there to be some carnage to take a picture of afterwards

that'd just vaporize them

8/4/2010 5:06:59 PM

God there is not even a recoil spring in that thing

8/4/2010 5:07:02 PM

Get the 22-250 and a Lee Anniversary starter kit. Bolt it to a 2x6 board, grab a couple C-clamps and voila - you can reload at just about any table. Works great for apartments.

A 22-250 is a badass little round, but unless you're reaching way out, you'll still find the cost and serviceability of the .223 to outweigh any ballistic benefits unless you load your own. Handloading is the only reasonably affordable way to feed a 22-250.

8/5/2010 9:15:38 AM

how much is that starter kit?

8/5/2010 10:32:51 AM

~$100 last time I looked. You can pick one up at the gun show this weekend for sure.

8/5/2010 11:39:28 AM

so how much per round will it cost me to reload 22-250? i want a quality bullet that is gonna be accurate. trying to figure out how long it'll take me to break even after i add up the cost of the kit, dies, bullets, primers, powder, etc. i'd also be reloading a little bit of 30-06, 9mm, and 380 auto i guess. maybe some 38 special in the future.

[Edited on August 5, 2010 at 1:29 PM. Reason : would like a 1911 eventually. in short, will this shit pay for itself?]

8/5/2010 1:28:19 PM

Will absolutely pay for itself. Your cost per round for good quality stuff is going to be in the .15-.20 range. Match quality bullets can throw it up another .02-.05 a round, but you're still well below retail for even crap ammo.

The ultimate thing in reloading to figure out is if you're going to load enough to break even. Figure spending about $200 to get in the door with one rifle caliber. Now calculate that mid-grade factory ammo for something like that is going to run you about .50 a round. That means that by rough calculation, your first 400 rounds are more expensive than normal. At 400 you've broken even, and after that it's all savings. If you load for more than one caliber, especially w/ pistols (under .10/ea if you use lead projectiles) the time to reach that break even point is much smaller. In any case it comes down to volume. You'll definitely shoot more once you don't see dollar signs flying out the ejection port anymore.

8/5/2010 2:13:23 PM

ok, you've convinced me

the good 22-250 stuff is over $1.00/round

8/5/2010 2:19:58 PM

I also ran some rough numbers through a calculator, just to put some real math into it. This is a rough estimate for "plinking" grade rounds. You'll use the same components as .223 pretty much, so the cost is about the same as that.

8/5/2010 2:23:37 PM

is this what i need?

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=820810

8/5/2010 3:53:16 PM

Yeah, that's the one. You'll obviously need a set of dies, and since it's bottleneck rifle, a trimmer and a set of dial or electronic calipers. Any half-decent calipers will work, the harbor freight ones are like 10-15 bucks iirc and work just fine.

If you come to the gun show this weekend there's a guy that always comes well-stocked with reloading stuff and he has those kits there. The dies being a somewhat odd caliber are a toss-up, but you might get lucky and find those as well. You could likely find everything you need to get started, and at worst, you'd end up placing a small order to Midway and putting it all together a few days later.

I would highly recommend coming down for the powder and primers, if nothing else. The haz-mat shipping will eat you alive unless you buy bulk, and any retail store with them wants an arm and a leg. The particular powder and primer you choose will vary based on what is available and what you want the ballistics to be like, but there is a wide variety of acceptable choices. Perusing some load manuals (free online from most powder vendors) will give you an idea of things to look for, and you can always ask one of us reloaders on here about anything you find.

[Edited on August 5, 2010 at 4:24 PM. Reason : hazmat]

8/5/2010 4:23:57 PM

What would be a good price for .223 at the gun show this weekend? Im newly in the market for this caliber so I have no idea what a good deal would be.

8/5/2010 4:28:00 PM

About .30-.40 a round is the going rate for bulk these days (wolf, silver bear, etc. by the 1k case). I wouldn't pay more than .60/ea in any circumstance. You can get a box for around $10 even at Dick's or wally world

[Edited on August 5, 2010 at 4:38 PM. Reason : .]

8/5/2010 4:37:24 PM

what do I need if I decide to purchase at the dixie show this weekend?

a permit from the sheriff since I have no CCL?

and where do i go about getting that?

8/5/2010 4:55:08 PM

hell, it depends on what county you live in. You need a purchase permit- some counties you might be able to get it same day (which is what you will need). Otherwise, you are SOL, unless you can talk a friend with a ccp to buy it for you and then "sell" it to you once you get your purchase permit or ccp


more than likely you are S.O.L. this time around, but it is always worth a shot

8/5/2010 5:34:33 PM

how long does a purchase permit take?

8/5/2010 5:48:27 PM

Depends on county. If youre in wake, you're looking at several weeks at the minimum

8/5/2010 6:04:10 PM

lets say Wayne

8/5/2010 6:07:57 PM

Quote :

"If you come to the gun show this weekend there's a guy that always comes well-stocked with reloading stuff and he has those kits there. The dies being a somewhat odd caliber are a toss-up, but you might get lucky and find those as well. You could likely find everything you need to get started, and at worst, you'd end up placing a small order to Midway and putting it all together a few days later. I would highly recommend coming down for the powder and primers, if nothing else. The haz-mat shipping will eat you alive unless you buy bulk, and any retail store with them wants an arm and a leg. The particular powder and primer you choose will vary based on what is available and what you want the ballistics to be like, but there is a wide variety of acceptable choices. Perusing some load manuals (free online from most powder vendors) will give you an idea of things to look for, and you can always ask one of us reloaders on here about anything you find."

working night shift this weekend. i'll wait til the next time around or something.

[Edited on August 5, 2010 at 6:57 PM. Reason : not in any hurry. don't even have the rifle yet ]

8/5/2010 6:56:25 PM

so, after reading some reviews on the lee anniversary kit, it seems like i'd only be satisfied with it for a short time. i think i'm willing to spend a little more money and get something that will last longer. i mean, i'm sure i'll be shooting for the rest of my life.

any suggestions on something a little nicer and more accurate? let's say i wanna keep it under $350 or so.

8/5/2010 9:00:59 PM

If you're set on moving up, I'd look at an RCBS or Hornady press, just be ready to double or even triple your budget.

I've got that kit myself and IMO, it's one of the best things Lee makes, second to their classic cast press. Lotta people talk shit about Lee stuff like it's poorly made, but it's really because they don't take proper care of it and things inevitably break. It also costs less than half of what a similar press made by Hornady, Dillon, or RCBS does, so you can't expect it to be idiot-proof. They do cheap out where they can, but nothing is going to break or fail unless you force it to do something you know it shouldn't. I've used several different Lee presses and never got the impression that it wasn't worth what I paid for it.

I'm not going to try and push you into it if you want to spend more, but I can tell you that I have loaded more good rounds than I can count on that exact press, without a single issue, and that for the money it's one hell of a deal. $350 might get you in the door with another brand, but it will get you everything you need to load 3 or 4 calibers on that one plus some tools. Just my experience with it, fwiw.

8/5/2010 10:55:44 PM

ok, i guess i'll go ahead and order the anniversary kit. it'll be a good place to start and i'll stand more of a chance of getting it to actually pay for itself.

8/5/2010 11:14:42 PM

the kit in that link i posted earlier was discontinued. it included a reloading manual.

what's the difference between these two kits?:
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=423081
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=121744

8/5/2010 11:39:42 PM

The first does not have the hand primer, but uses an on-press priming system. The second comes with the "Auto-prime" hand primer and a set of shellholders for it. The latter is more expensive because it comes with, imo, a better priming system.

I bought the first kit, used the on-press primer for quite some time, then finally went out and bought the hand primer separately to give it a try. Having used both, I much prefer the hand primer. It is way more convenient and easy to use because you can sit in front of the TV or something and prime brass, rather than sitting in front of the press. It's also more consistent and gives a better "feel" of how it's seated.

All that said, I would buy the second kit that comes with the Auto-prime, based on my experience with both tools.

8/6/2010 7:53:39 AM

Quote :

"ok, you've convinced me the good 22-250 stuff is over $1.00/round"

You can sometimes find the Winchester 40 round packs for ~$30 if you're deligent.

It's a fun round to shoot, but factory ammo is usually pricey, making reloading a must if you shoot much. I ended up with a rifle chambered in this cartridge because I got the rifle with 18x Leupold and 100 rounds of ammo for a price I simply couldn't turn down. Otherwise, I probably would have been perfectly well served by something in the cheaper and more common .223.

As an aside, I don't buy brass. Just buy cheap factory ammo, shoot it up and then reload it with whatever bullet you like. Incidentally, my rifle shoots the cheap Serbian Privi or Hotshot ammo very well.





[Edited on August 6, 2010 at 2:38 PM. Reason : ,.]

8/6/2010 2:15:01 PM

i won't find my varmint rounds that cheap though

8/6/2010 2:21:33 PM

You don't need expensive premium bullets to blast away at woodchucks or other varmint-class game. Pick a cost-effective projectile that your rifle shoots well and go with that. The velocities this cartridge produces make it plenty lethal on varmints even when loaded with FMJ bullets.

8/6/2010 2:47:43 PM

The little Hornady JSP's can be bought in bulk, and those suckers can get mean even at the mere .223 velocities I've used them at. You'd practically vaporize a 'chuck with those coming out of the 22-250.


Damn...you've got me wanting a 22-250 now with all this talk.

8/6/2010 3:23:40 PM

Where is better to buy shotgun ammo? Wallyworld or Dicks?

8/7/2010 11:48:51 AM

Props to the Orange County Sheriff's Dept.

Had a big shooting day at a big country property my family owns. We had a total of 10 shooters throughout the day between 11am and 830pm, but only one or two going at once. Most were only there for a few hours at a time. Some CCW move-and-shoot drills, a small run-and-gun carbine course, and skeet intermixed throughout the day.

We've done this a dozen times over the past 6 months, and never had any visits from law enforcement. Today, after 9 hours of constant gunfire, a sheriff's deputy pulled into view at the end of our long driveway.

In front of him were 4 guys with slung AR-15's and AK47's (and one shooting), all open-carrying from the previous handgun work. We were facing away from him, and didn't see him until he had come to a full stop about 25 yards behind the firing line.

He honked his horn to get our attention (no lights or sirens), and we all instinctively put our hands out to show we were not a threat. But he was as calm and nonchalant as could be. He could see all the permanent target stands, so it was quite clear there was no raging battle going on.

He started off saying he was just investigating a report of sustained gunfire someone had dialed to 911. But that he gets nervous, transplanted Yankees making such calls all the time. He never asked for our names or anything, just confirmed the address. He hung out with us and talked (never asking us to remove the handguns or carbines) for 15 minutes. He was such a nice guy we asked him if he wanted to take a run through the carbine course, and he really wanted to, but said it was inappropriate.

Think of how rare that is. He was outgunned, outmanned, and didn't have a concern about it at all.

No drama. No names. No frisking. No disarming. No check for permits (one guy was concealing, and let him know). No hopped-up nervousness on his end. Just a good deputy checking things out because he had to.

The guy who was concealing brought up an interesting point. Do you need to tell a LEO that you're concealing a handgun, if you have a carbine slung over your shoulders?

I'm sure he was ready for something worse. But when he saw all the signs of a peaceable group, he handled it perfectly.

[Edited on August 8, 2010 at 12:22 AM. Reason : a]

8/8/2010 12:17:18 AM

it's a shame that we've come to expect that LEOs will infringe upon our rights and feel a need to praise them when all they have done is respect the rights of law-abiding citizens

8/8/2010 5:20:09 AM

yeah, it is sad, but unfortunately cool cops like that are few and far between (at least in my experience)

8/8/2010 12:19:16 PM