Quote :

"They had an INCREDIBLE class coming in. #7 and #10 PG, #8 and #16 C, #6 and #11 PF, #7 SG. 7 guys in the Top 100 and 5 in the Top 50. They had no leader and played like a bunch of freshman. Those freshman were utterly terrible in a major conference. They had no chemistry and simply didn't know how to win. Freshman play like freshman. It's completely unrealistic to expect them to come in and compete, even after a half year, at the level we are asking them to. Unless you get the rare, top flighter the Durant's, the Carmelo's, the Derrick Rose's you simply can't expect them to replace even disappointing seniors."

The thing is, we had no leader last year. Costner? hell no. Fells? hell no. Ben? marginally, but still not. If anything, Javi showed he's capable of being a leader out there.

Plus, we're not losing an entire team. We're returning Smith, who was our best post player, Javi who was unquestionably the best PG, and two solid wings in JT and CJ.

I'm not saying we won't suck, but we should at least be a team we can all be proud of. I think that's all most people want out of next year's squad anyway.

[Edited on March 24, 2009 at 12:40 PM. Reason : ]

3/24/2009 12:38:32 PM

Quote :

"but we should at least be a team we can all be proud of. I think that's all most people want out of next year's squad anyway."

you obviously haven't been paying much attention. people want far far more than that.

3/24/2009 12:41:16 PM

Well, that's all I want. Our team next year will have zero McD All-Americans, and very few upperclassmen (who are worth a shit). How anyone can expect much is beyond me.

3/24/2009 12:43:44 PM

Quote :

"You guys probably hate me for using UConn as a parallel but it's what I know so I'm going to. After 2006 UConn lost 70% of it's offense from the previous year. They had Craig Austrie and Jeff Adrien, both rising sophomores coming back who had experience."

Austrie and Adrien would be comparable to us only bringing back Degand and CJ Williams, approximately , form the Pomeroy statistics. We've got more than that.

3/24/2009 12:44:48 PM

That's fair. We do have more returning, but my point wasn't really about talent. Aside from Thabeet at that point in time, they had elite high-major talent. They simply had no leader. Can Horner be a leader? Javi? Smith? I'm not sure. Javi is certainly the only one who APPEARS to have the moxie to be leader among this returning group.

And I hope you guys know I'm not one that is killing Lowe. I just am not overly optimistic about our chances last year and hope people are realistic in their expectations.

3/24/2009 12:48:47 PM

Quote :

"Our team next year will have zero McD All-Americans"

Lo Brown had a better season & stats than several McD All Americans and this has been publicized how he was scrubbed from that game even though he is deserving of being there.

more on flowers:

Quote :

"I talked today with Chipola (Fla.) head coach Greg Heiar and he says numerous schools are hot after 6-8 power forward Gary Flowers. Seton Hall, South Florida, UConn, Arizona, Maryland and Cincinnati have all been in to see Flowers, who's averaging 16 points and 10.2 rebounds while shooting 60 percent from the field. "He's been playing great," Heiar said. "He's averaging close to a double-double on the year. He's doing everything we ask him to do. He continues to get better as a player and that's all you can ask for as a coach." Heiar said Seton Hall coach Bobby Gonzalez, profiled in my recent Christmas story, plans to visit Flowers "sometime soon." "They've done a really good job recruiting him," Heiar said. "I want to get a chance to meet Coach Gonzalez and talk to him about Gary." Heiar likes to have prospective head coaches come to campus before his players make any type of verbal commitment, although he said he didn't expect a commitment anytime soon. Flowers could commit at any time, but can not sign a Letter of Intent until the spring because he must be in his third semester of JUCO. "

[Edited on March 24, 2009 at 12:54 PM. Reason : sdf]

3/24/2009 12:49:46 PM

Quote :

"Well, that's all I want. Our team next year will have zero McD All-Americans, and very few upperclassmen (who are worth a shit). How anyone can expect much is beyond me."

Because it will be the fourth year under our new coach. After 4 years, you'd like to think we would be competing for something beyond not being the worst team in the ACC.

3/24/2009 12:52:14 PM

I know we've had good luck with JuCos long ago but are there any guys out there now that are contributing to major programs?

3/24/2009 12:56:03 PM

Quote :

"Chipola JC lost in the final 4 of the JCAA National Tournament after being ranked #1 going in, going 35-2. Flowers Averaged 12.3 PG, 7.1 Rebs, 3.3 A, 1.6 steals, 1.5 blocks, 75% FT, 2.2 TO for that team during the tourny"

3/24/2009 1:00:38 PM

Quote :

"There is a chance that he could be great, but the odds certainly against him. There must be some reason that no other division 1 programs (300+) offered him."

According to one of the articles posted in this thread, UNC-W and Seton Hall both offered him after seeing him play in a tournament (can't remember which one they said). I'm not saying these are top-flight programs by any means, but at least get your facts straight before you start doubting the guy's worth.

[Edited on March 24, 2009 at 1:14 PM. Reason : asdf]

3/24/2009 1:02:46 PM

Quote :

"I know we've had good luck with JuCos long ago but are there any guys out there now that are contributing to major programs?"

also flowers' arrest was for weed. i'm sure that's not the whole reason he was kicked off Ok State (home of JamesOn Curry and Adarius Bowman amongst others) but I dont really see that as a huge deal. Plus I think we're a longshot for this guy anyway

3/24/2009 1:15:12 PM

Quote :

"According to one of the articles, UNC-W and Seton Hall both offered him after seeing him play in a tournament (can't remember which one they said). I'm not saying these are top-flight programs by any means, but at least get your facts straight before you start shitting all over the guy."

I pretty sure neither of these schools offered him. You are regurgitating what some tarheel fan posted on packpride.

[Edited on March 24, 2009 at 1:18 PM. Reason : []

3/24/2009 1:16:22 PM

this is sid's first year with all of his guys...unless you count horner

we need lo brown to be nasty. wood and howell need to contribute. tracy smith, horner, javi, cj williams and julius mays all need to be solid. if johnny thomas and this new freshman can provide some hustle and defense, we might be respectable. what will the lineup look like?

G- Lo Brown, Javi, Farnold
G- Julius Mays, Wood
F - CJ Williams, Thomas, Davis
F - Horner, Howell
F - Tracy Smith, Horner

I guess we'll be going small a lot. i won't know what to think of this team until we play our first game. josh davis sounds like a solid sleeper.

3/24/2009 1:25:16 PM

Quote :

"And I think you're being completely unrealistic saying we won't be worse. "

We won't be worse. Write it down. Barring injuries, we won't be worse. I was the one telling people to shut the fuck up 2 years ago when they were so pumped that we were going to be great Lowe's second season. I see what you're saying. I just don't think we're losing so much that we can't recover and be a better basketball team with some new blood. I don't think thats a stretch considering the inconsistency with which the guys we're losing played.

I know we might suck, we're going to be young. But I feel confident that this team can be as good if not better than all 3 of the previous teams coached by Lowe. How is it unrealistic? The key will be to have everyone stay healthy, and to win one or two of the tougher games OOC early in the season to get our confidence up. I think we can do that.

3/24/2009 1:35:06 PM

So we'll basically be like Maryland, except without the superstar at point guard or a good coach. I'm so excited.

3/24/2009 1:40:51 PM

We won't be anything like Maryland. We have a proven post player and don't run hardly any zone defense. And to my knowledge, no one on our team has red cheeks

3/24/2009 1:45:33 PM

^lulz at the red cheeks comment

3/24/2009 1:54:11 PM

Quote :

"We won't be worse. Write it down. Barring injuries, we won't be worse."

Quote :

"How is it unrealistic?"

That is definitely unrealistic to make such an absolute statement that we won't be worse, when we are losing so much production from 3 upperclassmen and expect to replace those 3 players with true freshman in the ACC.

You do realize that we play in the ACC right? Where there will be a lot of other teams who have more talent and experience than us and with arguably better coaches.

3/24/2009 1:55:33 PM

With the open scholarships, maybe it's worth taking a risk on this guy. But there are a bunch of things to consider with adding this guy:

-Maybe the staff really sees something in him that makes him not too risky. But he's clearly a back-up option, and when the staff is taking second-tier guys who have no known scholarship offers (AKA no one else was willing to take a chance but State), then I'm a little worried.
-Maybe he pans out, but he probably doesn't. Every time State takes a two-star guy, people always say trust the staff. I'm all for giving him a chance, but the majority of our unheralded basketball guys haven't panned out (yes, with football they have because those guys are much, much harder to predict, so that doesn't bother me, especially given TOB's record with those guys).
-Luckily Costner and Ferguson will graduate, but I'm starting to worry about the basketball team's APR. If we continually take questionable guys who can't make the cut (Bartosz Lewandowski, Trevor, Marques Johnson), it could cost us scholarships in the future. Yes, Bartosz had a medical thing, but he wasn't making the cut. Yes, Ferguson/Costner will probably graduate, but most of those guys don't. And that's no good. Not to mention one-and-done guys hurt it too (something we are starting to really pursue).

And be careful what you read on PackPride. Yes, they have great information. They know what is going on in the athletic department. But they will NEVER say one bad thing about the staff AT ALL. Not once. Nor will they talk bad about the players. And there is a reason for that.

3/24/2009 2:10:17 PM

I'm curious, what is the reason?

3/24/2009 2:24:00 PM

Who does it help?

3/24/2009 2:39:23 PM

Quote :

"And be careful what you read on PackPride. Yes, they have great information. They know what is going on in the athletic department. But they will NEVER say one bad thing about the staff AT ALL. Not once. Nor will they talk bad about the players. And there is a reason for that."

because they realize there are enough idiots on their boards making a scene that they don't have to maybe? They're not going to stir up shit when its been said to them (straight from players/parents mouths) in the past that recruits picked other schools because of things that were written about the program/coaches/players on their board.


It doesn't take a fucking idiot to figure that out. Maybe some of you should follow suit.

[Edited on March 24, 2009 at 3:27 PM. Reason : ]

3/24/2009 3:26:27 PM

^QFT

it does make a difference whether some of you want to believe it or not.

[Edited on March 24, 2009 at 3:33 PM. Reason : nc state is a family. let's treat it like one.]

3/24/2009 3:32:06 PM

my question is, what is the point in talking shit about the players? Of course, everyone has the freedom of speech, but its not gonna change how they're playing. Let them move on and let that be that.

3/24/2009 3:34:19 PM

you can't be serious, so now we are blaming the fans for posting on the internet for our abysmal program?

3/24/2009 3:36:23 PM

Quote :

"So we're all in agreement, right? We're just ignoring OhBoyeee's trolling from here on out? Good"

3/24/2009 3:39:37 PM

where do you go to get the firefox block user plugin?

3/24/2009 3:40:38 PM

Quote :

"And be careful what you read on PackPride. Yes, they have great information. They know what is going on in the athletic department. But they will NEVER say one bad thing about the staff AT ALL. Not once. Nor will they talk bad about the players.* And there is a reason for that."

* unless they were recruited by HWSNBN.

3/24/2009 3:40:42 PM

Wolfpack hoops is claiming that Davis is 6'7 after talking to his coach last night, interesting.

3/24/2009 3:41:05 PM

I don't think our record will necessarily be better next year, but i AM excited about some improved guard play. College basketball is won/lost by guards, so we should see some steps in the right direction next year...

3/24/2009 3:47:08 PM

Quote :

"This past weekend Josh played in the North Carolina vs. South Carolina All-Star game in Myrtle Beach. He took home the MVP award as he put up 15 and 10. His 10 rebounds were a record for the event. He also shot 5-5 from the field. Josh is a 6'7 combo forward that averaged 25 and 10 for Athens Drive High School last year. To put things in perspective for you, he outscored local stars Garrius Adams (Miami), Earnest Ross (Auburn) and John Wall (Uncommitted). Am I making a case that he is better than these guys, not necessarily. But I am making the case that he deserves to have his name mentioned in the same sentence with these guys. "

3/24/2009 3:55:22 PM

Quote :

"where do you go to get the firefox block user plugin?"

3/24/2009 4:05:47 PM

Quote :

"but I'm starting to worry about the basketball team's APR."

When does Memphis' APR kick in and take effect?

3/24/2009 4:13:04 PM

Why is everyone questioning Lowe for giving a scholarship to a guy that averages 25 and 12 a game and that grew up wanting to play for the Pack? I mean we had 3 extra scholarships. Did people question Roy Williams when he gave a scholarship to Justin Watts?

PG - Gonzalez, Degand
SG - Brown, Mays,
SF - Williams, Thomas, Wood
PF - Horner, Davis
PF - Smith, Howell

Hell lets just run a PG, two SGs, a SF with good rebounding ability like Thomas, and a PF.

[Edited on March 24, 2009 at 4:16 PM. Reason : ]

3/24/2009 4:15:46 PM

Quote :

"Why is everyone questioning Lowe for giving a scholarship to a guy that averages 25 and 12 a game and that grew up wanting to play for the Pack?"

If he was for sure going to walk-on, then it does seem as a wasted scholarship. If that was the case, he could have seen if anyone else was available.

Quote :

"Did people question Roy Williams when he gave a scholarship to Justin Watts?"

I'm sure they did or if they didn't they do now

[Edited on March 24, 2009 at 4:21 PM. Reason : Royboy]

3/24/2009 4:18:34 PM

Quote :

"Why is everyone questioning Lowe for giving a scholarship to a guy that averages 25 and 12 a game and that grew up wanting to play for the Pack?"

Uhhhh, basketball stats don't exist in a vacuum. It's all relative to the position you play and quality of your competition and teammates. I'd put up Wilt Chamberlain numbers against a team of 8 year olds.

3/24/2009 4:20:47 PM

At least we have dependable back-up size in 6'8" Kendall Smith

3/24/2009 4:21:37 PM

Quote :

"Why is everyone questioning Lowe for giving a scholarship to a guy that averages 25 and 12 a game and that grew up wanting to play for the Pack?"

no one would be questioning anything if he was winning, you can't tell me that a 2 star prospect with no offers from other high major programs makes you optimistic for next season.

3/24/2009 4:24:23 PM

Quote :

"Uhhhh, basketball stats don't exist in a vacuum. It's all relative to the position you play and quality of your competition and teammates. I'd put up Wilt Chamberlain numbers against a team of 8 year olds."

the two times he played against Garius Adams this year he owned him
the kid took home MVP honors at an all star game between SC and NC preps going for, IIRC, 15 and 10

what else you want?

[Edited on March 24, 2009 at 4:26 PM. Reason : s]

3/24/2009 4:24:32 PM

good lord, can we, for once show the kid some love. let him know he's welcome here.

3/24/2009 4:25:34 PM

WELCOME TO THE PACK JOSH DAVIS

3/24/2009 4:27:14 PM

Quote :

"the two times he played against Garius Adams this year he owned him the kid took home MVP honors at an all star game between SC and NC preps going for, IIRC, 15 and 10 "

Good for him? I'm sure Mike O'Donnel had some great games in high school too. The people who do this shit for a living say the kid is a scrub, I'll tend to believe them over the in depth analysis of some guy on a message board.

3/24/2009 4:29:40 PM

Maybe we should fire Sid and hire some dude from Scout.com

3/24/2009 4:30:44 PM

Quote :

"the two times he played against Garius Adams this year he owned him the kid took home MVP honors at an all star game between SC and NC preps going for, IIRC, 15 and 10 what else you want?"

Him to pan out as an ACC player?

We're all NC State fans here, so lets be honest -- when's the last time even the high rated prospects actually panned out for us?

Quote :

"I'm sure Mike O'Donnel had some great games in high school too. "

MOD averaged 21 points a game!

[Edited on March 24, 2009 at 4:35 PM. Reason : .]

3/24/2009 4:34:01 PM

Quote :

"The people who do this shit for a living say the kid is a scrub"

who has actually said he's a scrub? he hasn't been evaluated in a while because he's played EVERY POSITION and keeps growing.

monte towe is the one that scouted him and he's did a pretty good job in finding us a sleeper in scott wood.

[Edited on March 24, 2009 at 4:35 PM. Reason : ?]

3/24/2009 4:35:07 PM

When's the last time a kid recruited by Sidney didn't show improvement after being with the program for a year or two?

3/24/2009 4:35:16 PM

Quote :

"the two times he played against Garius Adams this year he owned him"

correct me if I'm wrong but they don't play the same position right? So you really don't have room to be saying he owned him just because his stat line was better. Did Costner own McNeal in the Marquette game simply because his stats were better (24pts 8 rebounds and 4 assists compared to 20 pts and 0 assists)even though they didn't guard each other? I don't fucking think so.

Quote :

"When's the last time a kid recruited by Sidney didn't show improvement after being with the program for a year or two?"

I don't give a shit if they "improve" if we don't win enough games to get to the tournament. The ultimate objective is not simply for players to improve, it's for them to get us to the tourney.

[Edited on March 24, 2009 at 4:39 PM. Reason : .]

3/24/2009 4:37:01 PM

Quote :

"Good for him? I'm sure Mike O'Donnel had some great games in high school too. The people who do this shit for a living say the kid is a scrub, "

Actually, that couldn't be farther from the truth, but believe what you want. How many times do we have to say that he hasn't been evaluated at his current position? Hence he goes from 2 star (when he was 25 lbs lighter and 2 inches shorter) to 1 star meaning he basically hasn't been evaluated.


god if some of you aren't trolls, I weep for your ignorance.

Quote :

"correct me if I'm wrong but they don't play the same position right? So you really don't have room to be saying he owned him just because his stat line was better. "

No, he actually shut him down on defense. His coach just said that he plays all 5 positions for their team and always guards the other teams best player whether they're a big or a guard. He shut Adams down one on one.

[Edited on March 24, 2009 at 4:39 PM. Reason : ]

3/24/2009 4:37:23 PM

Quote :

"When's the last time a kid recruited by Sidney didn't show improvement after being with the program for a year or two?"

I'm sure your main point here is going to be "look how good Javi has become" except I'll point out that he was serviceable at the end of last year, sucked at the beginning of this year, then came back and played well at the end of the year.

Smith is good, but that seems more related to the fact that his minutes have more than tripled than that he's necessarily improved.

3/24/2009 4:41:33 PM

^^ well then I retract my previous statement about Davis owning him, good for him, it just seemed odd that a 3/4 was guarding the other team's 2 guard

[Edited on March 24, 2009 at 4:43 PM. Reason : .]

3/24/2009 4:42:26 PM