from page 8 from marko:

Quote :

" [quote]Raleigh Leaders to Discuss Hillsborough Street in 'Roundabout' Way Raleigh — Raleigh city leaders were expected to vote Wednesday on adding another roundabout to Hillsborough Street. At Wednesday's meeting, they'll consider adding a third roundabout at the intersection of Morgan and Hillsborough. The change is needed to convert Morgan Street into a two-way street. The City Council has already approved two roundabouts in the area – one at the intersection of Pullen Road Hillsborough Street and another at the intersection of Oberlin Road and Groveland Avenue. Council members voted in October to move forward with more parking, raised medians and buried power lines to improve the look of Hillsborough Street. Officials said the changes are part of an effort to make the street more user-friendly. If approved, the roundabout at Morgan Street would cost about $500,000."

http://wral.com/news/local/story/2012230/[/quote]

[Edited on November 7, 2007 at 8:42 AM. Reason : .]

11/7/2007 8:41:02 AM

wait wait wait. i thought they nixed that roundabout at morgan? is there a new plan?

basically everyone at the meeting to discuss the morgan st roundabout was against it.

11/7/2007 9:26:43 AM

Considering that's a weird intersection already, I think a roundabout there makes sense. Though I do wonder what the little roadway that runs from the roundabout toward the southwest corner of that drawing is, as I don't think there is a road in that position currently.

If they do that roundabout, though, I REALLY hope they can fit it into a space not much bigger than the current roadway. I think they've got some space at the southwest, where that run-down old industrial facility is (it would do wonders for the streetscape if that went away, actually) but there's a building owned by St. Mary's at the northeast, a 100+ year old house at the northwest (offices for New City Design Group) and a historic 1920 house at the southeast (law offices). The house to the southeast, 1117 Hillsborough, is one of my favorite houses in Raleigh. I hope they'd have better sense than to mess with it.


[Edited on November 7, 2007 at 9:34 AM. Reason : e]

11/7/2007 9:33:35 AM

Quote :

" New designs will be presented at the third hearing on the Hillsborough and Morgan Street roundabout tommorow today, November 7th at 1 p.m. at the Raleigh Municipal Building, 222 West Hargett Street, in council chambers on the second floor. At the last meeting many council members stated that the proposed roundabout plan would increase and promote traffic flow rather than calm it. Based on the council’s request from the last hearing, the engineering firm should be presenting a T-intersection option with a stop light, as well as the possibility of a roundabout without the by-pass lane. The outcome of this roundabout design will be a precedent for future Hillsborough St. roundabouts and will affect the future growth of the Hillsborough St. / N.C. State corridor. "

http://tinyurl.com/32jhks

there's a video on there of the two proposed roundabout plans. the bypass lane one was the one that people were really upset about.

11/7/2007 9:39:11 AM

people on wral's GoLo need a good head thumping

11/7/2007 9:49:31 AM

those GoLo posters are some of the dumbest people I have ever seen... They put TWW to shame with stupid posts.

11/7/2007 10:11:35 AM

for real

they can somehow take a story about a pumpkin carving for kids and turn it into some sort of political douchbaggery

11/7/2007 10:27:37 AM

and someone will pipe in with a "i'm praying for them and their families" or some shit like that.

11/7/2007 11:09:22 AM

Quote :

"Mayor Meeker decided that there should be a public meeting concerning the Hillsborough and Morgan Street roundabout in early December. It seems that a single lane roundabout will not be considered. The single lane would fail in peak hours and thus would not be accepted by NC Department of Transportation. Council members Philip Isley and Joyce Kekas both had reservations about the roundabout plan. They both urged the council to wait until the other Hillsborough Street roundabouts are built to see how traffic responds to them. Isley echoed public suggestions that a T-intersection stop light should be considered. The public meeting will take place somewhere in the vicinity of the proposed roundabout site."

more here:
http://www.newraleigh.com/articles/archive/november-7th-raleigh-city-council-meeting-water-and-roundabout/

11/8/2007 9:48:11 AM

Quote :

"At the last meeting many council members stated that the proposed roundabout plan would increase and promote traffic flow rather than calm it. Based on the council’s request from the last hearing, the engineering firm should be presenting a T-intersection option with a stop light, as well as the possibility of a roundabout without the by-pass lane."

This makes no sense. The council has been saying that people don't like or understand roundabouts and now they say its going to increase and promote traffic? Also I thought the whole reason we were adding the roundabouts is because the traffic signals on hillsborough weren't working that great, now they want to add more traffic signals on Hillsborough? I mean either the roundabouts work and calm traffic or they don't it seems like they are going in two different direction on these projects.

Oh and the morgan street roundabout decision got pushed back into a public meeting before being voted on by the council. Basically I was told it was done because the Mayor is in favor of the roundabout, but did not have the votes to get it passed so he pushed it back to a public hearing meeting to buy him self some time until the new council member takes over and he can hopefully get their vote and get the roundabout passed at Morgan Street.

11/8/2007 8:16:20 PM

you don't know enough details.

it wouldn't increase the actual volume of traffic, but without the bypass lane, the engineering firm thinks that traffic would back up on the east side of the roundabout.

11/8/2007 8:22:05 PM

Uhh... I have more details than you think, I know about why the bypass is needed. The phrase "increase and promote traffic flow" means that more cars would be going through the intersection. It does not mean that traffic will be backed up, that would be decreasing traffic flow.

11/8/2007 8:53:11 PM

i didn't read your quote, i just read what you wrote, which was unclear. "increase and promote traffic" is not the same as "increase and promote traffic flow"

and i still really don't think you know what you're talking about. maybe i'm wrong. the bypass lane is mostly what people objected to. the major problem with that was that were multiple blocks in a row going west on hillsborough where traffic would not stop or even slow down (if they used the bypass lane). many felt this was contrary to what was being planned further west on the street (at oberlin, etc).

meeker is against the non-bypass lane roundabout and says that it would back up traffic east of the traffic circle on hillsborough.

others are wondering why they can't just put a stoplight there.

the only reason ANY of this is being considered is because the city wants to make morgan st two-way all the way to hillsborough st.



[Edited on November 8, 2007 at 9:05 PM. Reason : .]

11/8/2007 9:00:59 PM

Quote :

"i didn't read your quote, i just read what you wrote, which was unclear. "increase and promote traffic" is not the same as "increase and promote traffic flow""

Well its good to see that you didn't even read and then proceeded to tell me I didn't know what I was talking about. But please tell me how what I quoted makes sense?

Quote :

"meeker is against the non-bypass lane roundabout and says that it would back up traffic east of the traffic circle on hillsborough."

lol, the only reason the single lane roundabout is even being considered is because Meeker wants it. It was not initially an option, it was only shown to illustrate why the bypass lane was needed and Meeker decided it needed to be an option and he has been pushing for some type of roundabout through out the whole process.

I'm guessing since you went to some of the meetings you think you know what is going on. Then tell me why was the vote pushed back? They could have voted for a signalized intersection yesterday, but meeker decided to send it back to the public. Meeker is the only one who is strongly in favor of the roundabout.

11/8/2007 9:40:55 PM

Quote :

" I'm guessing since you went to some of the meetings you think you know what is going on. Then tell me why was the vote pushed back?"

i dont' know. i've been busy trying to finish a paper for my boss by tomorrow (so of course i get pissy on tww instead of actually doing work).

11/8/2007 9:46:19 PM

from a rumor ink seotaj posted in entertainment

Quote :

"Dot Com downtown. LuLu has begun demolition/construction on the Yellow Bulldozer building on Hillsborough Street - we anticipate the revival of this part of the University area."

http://www.newraleigh.com/articles/archive/kings-hatem-and-downtown/

11/27/2007 12:09:59 PM

^I'm about to go for lunch, I'll drive past there and see what I can see, report back in a bit...

11/27/2007 12:25:41 PM

Indeed, they're doing...something. Handful of trucks in the parking lot and all, or nearly all, of the 1st floor windows have been boarded up. As to what that means....? I'm hoping that's a good sign (i.e. why bother to put up boards if the building is to come down.)

11/27/2007 12:51:39 PM

^^^i am NOT seotaj

11/27/2007 1:15:55 PM

my bad....just glanced at the name

11/27/2007 1:16:47 PM

^^^ I don't think the entire building is coming down. I think the demo they are referring to is internal.

11/28/2007 1:02:08 AM

there's a public meeting this tuesday about the morgan st. roundabout:

Quote :

"The City of Raleigh will hold a public meeting on Tuesday, Dec. 11, at the Pullen Park Arts Center at 6 p.m. to discuss the proposed roundabouts at the intersection of Morgan and Hillsborough streets. The meeting will be held in the lower level of the arts center, located at 105 Pullen Road. From 6 p.m. to 6:30 p.m., engineers will be available to review the designs and answer questions. At 6:30 p.m., a formal presentation will be made to discuss the intersection. A handout and comment page will be distributed at the meeting as well. "

more about it here:
http://www.newraleigh.com/articles/archive/roundabout-design-problem-a-better-solution-is-needed/#When:15:34:01Z

plus one of the commenters goes into great detail about bike lanes and the bike safety issues. it's some really interesting stuff and the guy SEEMS to know what he's talking about.

12/7/2007 4:10:07 PM

bttt for tonight

12/11/2007 4:02:56 PM

i dig that animation

12/11/2007 4:19:54 PM

fuck bike lanes, bikers don't obey the rules of the road and shouldn't be allowed on them

12/11/2007 4:23:51 PM

you should read some of what that guy has written if you haven't.

i get fed up with people who don't follow the rules of the road. but this applies to plenty of car drivers as well. i have friends that are responsible cyclists. and if you don't allow them on the road, then they'll just be a hazard to pedestrians.

12/11/2007 4:29:51 PM

Quote :

"i dig that animation"

hahaha- why are some of those assholes taking the circle if they don't need to?

12/11/2007 5:21:14 PM

Quote :

"fuck bike lanes, bikers don't obey the rules of the road and shouldn't be allowed on them"

right...... so since cyclists don't follow the rules, take away the bike lane and force them to ride in the main part of the road...... good plan

12/11/2007 5:34:02 PM

Anyone go to tonights meeting? I had a study thing to go to so I couldn't make it.

12/11/2007 8:06:00 PM

Why don't they just Ctrl+c brier creek and build that in the middle of the city?

12/11/2007 10:12:49 PM

Because Brier Creek is really not planned very well. It's not pedestrian friendly and the residential component is too far away from the retail. If they had actually spent more time to make Brier Creek more of a village it would have been alot cooler.

12/11/2007 11:46:27 PM

in all honesty north hills kicks pretty much every other shopping destinations ass in the triangle in terms of well designed layout for a tight space

parking underneath
stores you can easily walk to

i really enjoy it

hillsborough street near state on the other hand blows

people aren't going to really utilize the area to its full potential until it becomes easily accessible, aesthetically pleasing, and free of homeless people constantly bombarding patrons personal space

somebody needs to step in with alot of money, a vision for what needs to be done, and the balls to make it happen

[Edited on December 12, 2007 at 1:08 AM. Reason : ]

12/12/2007 12:58:38 AM

Quote :

"Why don't they just Ctrl+c brier creek and build that in the middle of the city?"

ON MY GOD

are you fucking kidding me?

a MEGA STRIP MALL is NOT what downtown (or anywhere) needs!

I HATE brier creek.

12/12/2007 8:38:29 AM

Quote :

"Anyone go to tonights meeting? I had a study thing to go to so I couldn't make it. "

i did. to the engineering firm's credit, they provided further analysis of many different alternatives for the roundabout and addressed some of the pedestrian and cyclist concern (though it was still very much a car-centric analysis). it just seemed painfully clear that the city needs to fit this project within their plan for the entirety of hillsborough st and the downtown area. the analysis that was presented was far too narrow and didn't even take into account streets three blocks away, much less the entire impact on the downtown area.

they had a voting system at this meeting where you could vote for your preferred alternative out of 7 (5 intersection changes, one phased changed the final choice was to do nothing). i'm pretty sure the majority was of the "do nothing" category since it didn't seem that any of the changes presented helped the entirety of hillsborough st and did nothing more than shift problems at that specific intersection.

Quote :

"in all honesty north hills kicks pretty much every other shopping destinations ass in the triangle in terms of well designed layout for a tight space"

i pretty well agree with this. i hate that it is located where it is. but they have good shopping locations and restaurants and you pretty much park in one spot and walk around the shopping center.

[Edited on December 12, 2007 at 12:22 PM. Reason : NH]

12/12/2007 12:21:11 PM

Well the city voted for a single lane roundabout today and then the DOT apparently said they were not going to approve it. So we will see what happens...

1/8/2008 4:17:33 PM

this whole idea of hillsborough street revitalization is a roundabout

1/8/2008 6:41:48 PM

i think the mayor should impose a 50% tariff on himself and the council for their excessive flim-flam on this topic

1/8/2008 9:34:21 PM

why would they approve a single lane round about? wouldnt that shit need to be at least 2 lanes to help with traffic?

1/8/2008 9:37:23 PM

Basically if the city wants to get the single lane roundabout built they will have to assume responsibility of the maintenance of Hillsborough from the belt-line to downtown.

Basically it went something like this...

Engineer: The single lane roundabout won't work with this amount of traffic and the DOT will not approve it

DOT: We are not going to approve this design and since we maintain the streets you need our approval.

City: I do what I want!

1/8/2008 10:59:54 PM

1/9/2008 7:12:25 PM

Engineers don't understand the logic of trying to reduce the amount of traffic.

1/9/2008 7:30:21 PM

wat

engineers came up with the idea of reducing traffic - hillsborough isn't designed (or, maybe, engineered?) for the volume which currently uses it. there is way too much thru traffic to/from downtown. the idea is to get more traffic flowing onto western blvd, which has 4 lanes and is designed to handle the capacity of a main commuter thoroughfare.

1/9/2008 7:36:51 PM

i think you guys are agreeing

1/9/2008 8:42:21 PM

neat panoramic of downtown raleigh

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/25/Raleigh_1909_Panorama_LOC.jpg

1/16/2008 10:30:22 PM

marko, you would probably like this forum...if you aren't already on it

http://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/NC-Triangle-f208.html

and you may find this thread of particular interest:

http://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/History-Triangle-t19040.html

[Edited on January 16, 2008 at 11:34 PM. Reason : space]

1/16/2008 11:33:46 PM

^ haha, I'm on there like every day. I got addicted to it.

^^ marco, where do you find these pictures? I love this kind of stuff.

[Edited on January 17, 2008 at 12:58 AM. Reason : -]

1/17/2008 12:56:46 AM

Not to be a smart ass or anything, but it appears that he just pulled that directly from the Wikipedia entry about Raleigh.

See the wikipedia in his link there.

1/17/2008 9:47:06 AM

yeah i just find them kinda wherever

Quote :

"Off-campus apartment complex to capitalize on growth Contractors plan housing, parking for future student populations Ashley Bennett Issue date: 2/1/08 Section: News Private developers have plans to bring a 10-story apartment complex and parking deck west of the N.C. State campus to aid the growing student population. Tim Luckadoo, associate vice chancellor for student affairs, met 2 weeks ago with Capstone Development, a student housing firm based in Alabama, to discuss its plans. According to Luckadoo, the firm has designed an apartment complex that may be named Stanhope Village, which will house approximately 900 students in two-, three- and four-bedroom apartments and include a parking deck for residents. Luckadoo explained that while the developers already have plans for the complex, it has not been approved yet. "City council has to approve it all and then they have to design the building, which could take 12 to 18 months, and then build it, which may also take 12 to 18 months," Luckadoo said. That projection puts the complex's opening at least two to three years away, according to Luckadoo. If the city council approves the plans, Luckadoo said Capstone Development would build the apartment complex and parking deck running lengthwise to the railroad tracks on the land behind the Dan Allen Parking Deck. "The firm will lease all of the land from Val Valentine, and then build and manage the complex and parking deck themselves," Luckadoo said. To build the parking deck however, Luckadoo said the developers plan on knocking down several homes in that area. "I believe these houses are pretty old and boarded up," Luckadoo said. "There is a neighborhood in that area though, and I suspect the people living there are going to be very concerned with what's happening." Luckadoo has no doubt as to why Capstone Development is choosing to build student housing facilities near the University. "I think a lot of developers are looking at N.C. State as a growing university," Luckadoo said. "Enrollment is expected to grow to 40,000 by 2017, so it's an attractive market opposed to other schools that aren't growing as fast as we are." While Luckadoo does see why the developers want to build close to the University, he finds it ironic that they are building a 10-story apartment complex. "It is unusual in the college market to build a high-rise building these days," Luckadoo said. "We have plans to knock down Lee and Sullivan. Oklahoma State took down some high-rises a few years ago, and UNC-Charlotte is thinking about taking down their high-rises." Regardless of the fact that it is a high-rise, Alyson Anderson, a junior in animal science, feels this apartment complex will be a great opportunity for incoming students in years to come. "It'll definitely give students who want to live off-campus more options, since most apartment complexes are pretty far away from the main campus," Anderson said. Anderson also said she felt these facilities would be convenient for students who want to live off campus because of the complex's proximity to most classes and "great parking." Casey Yarbrough, a junior in psychology, also agreed the facility would be great for its convenient parking. "I wish this was here when I was a freshman," Yarbrough said. "Then I wouldn't have had to walk all the way out to the varsity lot to get my car." Although the plans for this new apartment complex may look attractive to students, Luckadoo feels it will not compete with University Housing. "I see a real difference between on- and off-campus housing with the staffing on campus and the connections that the on-campus housing has with all the other campus departments," Luckadoo said. "There is a reason to live on campus, and you can't get those same benefits living off campus.""

2/1/2008 8:35:12 AM

Based on a similar article to ^: http://www.thewolfweb.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=512717

It's an interesting point he makes about the facility being a high-rise when the trend is toward apartment-style housing, but I think if they plan it correctly (i.e. individual bathrooms or 2-room suites like UT, but with a shared living area as well as bath) it will work despite being a high-rise. While they may be against the current trend, they're space-efficient, while traditional 2 to 4 story apartment buildings, not so much. The more urban the campus gets, the less space they'll have to work with, and they're going to have to have somewhere to put on-campus students. I've yet to see what's on the drawing board to replace Sullivan and Lee, and those buildings could certainly stand to be replaced, but I'm wondering how they're going to replace ~1500 beds with a low-rise building (s) sharing a similar footprint to what's there now...

Also, sidenote but I'm a bit curious--does anyone know why Sullivan and Lee are first up for replacement, rather than the tri-towers? Bowen/Carroll/Metcalf are about 10 years newer, but they've got smaller rooms, an odd suite layout, and other than being convenient to a tunnel seem to be largely unloved. Maybe it's that they'd have even less space to deal with than over on West campus... And for that matter, why are they not replacing Bragaw when they do the other 2 west dorms? It's the oldest of the three by a few years. Maybe the fact that it's not a high-rise saves it? Maybe they want to keep the X marking the spot in aerial photos? Hmmm.

2/1/2008 9:48:59 AM

bttt

5/5/2008 7:37:14 PM