I've found that, after reading the comics, the zombies are really much more of a passive threat than anything else. There are much more dangerous things in what's left of the world...

11/22/2010 6:14:15 PM

Quote :

"I didn't give a shit about the Mexicans, I never thought for a second that any of the good guys were going to get blasted."

Really? I could've seen the black guy getting popped, or maybe the Asian kid -- who seems to be one of the favorite ancillary characters and whose death could have had an impact.

Quote :

"I'm not saying that the writers should have turned the dudes into Mexican Others, but you could have strung us along for more than 10 minutes."

The real problem is that they couldn't string us along any longer. This series gets 6 1/2 hours -- less commercials -- to do a season. And I'll argue that was a poor choice on somebody's part (I don't know if it was AMC, the producers, or what), and one I suspect they'll rectify next season now that they know they have a pretty big hit on their hands.

Quote :

"I honestly laughed out loud when the grandmother broke up the standoff."

I think laughter, and maybe confusion, were exactly what they were looking for.

Quote :

"What insight did that sequence give the viewer? Are we supposed to be in awe of a janitor propping up an abandoned nursing home?"

I think we're supposed to take away that even fundamentally good people would have to act like jerks to survive in this situation, by threatening violence and kidnapping people in order to get what they need.

Quote :

"I don't care about the characters because they're not giving me a reason to. And if you want it to make it about the zombies, how about make the zombies actually pose a threat. Until the camp raid, they seemed pretty harmless."

Again, I don't know how you think they're supposed to cram loads of character development and zombie mayhem into six hours. I think they've made admirable use of little things -- short exchanges or monologues -- to give us a feel for many of the characters. It's pretty common in zombie media to take this approach, particularly in films.

Then you complain about the zombies not seeming threatening enough. The cast list is short. They can't be eating one or two people every episode or we run out of characters quick. You don't get to have it both ways here. If you want a healthy mix of human interaction and zombie mayhem -- which I think most of us do -- you have to make trade-offs, which I think the writers have done well. If you want a human drama or a constant bloodbath, then rent Pride and Prejudice or Saw, respectively.

[Edited on November 22, 2010 at 6:18 PM. Reason : and I'm arguing with a guy who claims to have enjoyed "Parks and Rec"]

11/22/2010 6:16:20 PM

the azn is gonna be around for quite a while

11/22/2010 6:25:18 PM

I can't seem to find episode 4 yet. Kind of want to see what all the hupla was all about. But I agree with the disappointment that has been addressed with the series. I mean it would have made sense to grab a main character with 3 supporting actors on a journey to survive the zombieland in the hopes to find their family and tell their story of how they were going to get to the City... oh wait, that's been done and it was very entertaining.

Seriously, early L4D had more character development then this show so far. Maybe they should make that a series instead... Shit, make it CGI/machinemia with decent lines and I'd be happy.

I was really hoping this would showcase more zombies in urban conflicts, but I guess I'll wait till all the episodes are out.

11/22/2010 6:40:44 PM

Is Rick still carrying around the hand grenade or what? I keep waiting for that to show up again.

11/22/2010 7:01:58 PM

Quote :

"Look, I'll spot you the conversation in the boat-although I do think that added a bit of heft to the later scene where the one sister gets her ass chomped"

yeah it was bad, and part of what made it so bad was the obvious "hey we're going to introduce you to this character, act like you should feel some attachment to her, bc we're gonna kill her off really soon" thing. it didn't really add heft. that's what they were going for, but it was just wayyyyy too obvious.

[Edited on November 22, 2010 at 7:52 PM. Reason : ]

11/22/2010 7:50:24 PM

^Exactly, I know they don't have a lot of episodes to work with, but don't give the character a lot of face time, then immediately kill her off, it's too obvious, build her, give it an episode, then kill them.

11/22/2010 8:06:59 PM

***********************spoiler***************************

was shane bitten at the attack?

I could have sworn that he got bitten by some geeks that came up from behind him! But he kept it discreet.

[Edited on November 22, 2010 at 8:39 PM. Reason : .]

11/22/2010 8:34:44 PM

geeks? those were zombies.

11/22/2010 9:16:34 PM

^ I hope that was some sort of bad joke.

11/22/2010 9:35:42 PM

^No, it's okay no need to start insulting anyone.

se7entythree "geeks" are what the zombies are referred to on this series. It's something that many of the fans have raised questions to the writers about as to 'why this term' instead of zombie.

11/22/2010 9:48:48 PM

There is always a need to insult 73

11/22/2010 9:54:05 PM

^^^^^ no, he didn't get bitten. it was some other dude in a brown shirt

[Edited on November 22, 2010 at 10:05 PM. Reason : shane]

11/22/2010 10:04:53 PM

Thank you very much winger.

11/22/2010 10:05:35 PM

i've never heard them referred to as geeks, but okay then. that's odd.

Ernie, stop being an ass

[Edited on November 22, 2010 at 10:12 PM. Reason : ]

11/22/2010 10:10:05 PM

Not being ass

But really?

The term 'geeks' has probably been used 500 times so far

11/22/2010 10:11:52 PM

or just use the term "walkers"...

11/22/2010 10:12:26 PM

i have heard walkers. ernie, why are you so bent out of shape that i've not heard them say geek? wtf

11/22/2010 10:13:32 PM

umm are you deaf? They say it like 200 times in episode 2, the Asian dude said it first calling in for aid for the 'geeks' in the alley way.

I mean for a nick name, geek's to describe zombies is pretty stupid. I mean walker, z's, zombs, or whatever would be easier nick names.

[Edited on November 22, 2010 at 10:17 PM. Reason : ]

11/22/2010 10:17:02 PM

I agree 73, I initially knew that you weren't attempting to mock me. Referring to them as 'geeks' is very outlandish. When I first heard it, I was confused.

Quote :

" I mean for a nick name, geek's to describe zombies is pretty stupid. I mean walker, z's, zombs, or whatever would be easier nick names. "

There is a taboo of referring to them as "zombies" that exist in the film world (horror genre) that many are afraid to associate with out of fear of disenfranchising fans. Legendary director and god-father zombie movie extraordinaire George A Romero accredits this.



[Edited on November 22, 2010 at 10:22 PM. Reason : .]

11/22/2010 10:17:59 PM

^^well i must be deaf, and you must be blind or illiterate because i already typed out twice that i never heard them say geek...

[Edited on November 22, 2010 at 10:21 PM. Reason : ]

11/22/2010 10:21:30 PM

yeah, but his last movie sucked ass.

thought you were kidding the first time around

[Edited on November 22, 2010 at 10:23 PM. Reason : ]

11/22/2010 10:22:03 PM

^ what film?

11/22/2010 10:24:12 PM

"Survival of the Dead" (2009) it was god aweful and really stunned to see a piss poor quality film.

11/22/2010 10:29:55 PM

Quote :

"i have heard walkers. ernie, why are you so bent out of shape that i've not heard them say geek? wtf "

have you even watched the fucking show? they ALWAYS call them geeks. jesus christ.

OMFG NEED MORE ACTION LOLZ

11/22/2010 10:46:06 PM

I, too, thought that the boat fishing sequence was absolutely painful. Almost as painful as (what felt like) two fucking minutes of the sister getting all red faced and crying into the camera. I mean seriously, I get it, you're crying, now take your ugly face out of my TV.

Anyway, several minutes into that boat convo, I had zero interest in what was going on and no idea what they were talking about other than it at some point was about fishing. The entire time I was expecting a zombie attack from under water from biting a line or something. Yeah, ADD moar action boomz boomz, w/e, but the terrible dialogue completely lost my interest.

I felt the nursing home was very well done. A plot twist I didn't see or even get at all until they started showing other old people.

Home base attack was pretty well done too, but again I had zero idea who a lot of those dying survivors were. That 'watch' monologue completely lost me too, again, terrible delivery.

11/22/2010 11:12:33 PM

I don't really get the vitriol some of y'all had towards this episode, sure the character development is ham-fisted, and sure some of the characters are one dimensional but I pretty much expected that with Frank Darabont as the EP. It's still a mostly enjoyable hour of TV and unique enough to keep me watching. Is anybody really claiming this is on the level of The Wire or The Sopranos? The nursing home subplot was fine with me, since it was a change from the old "evil men trying to get over on the vulnerable" trope you see in a lot of zombie stuff.

[Edited on November 23, 2010 at 12:27 AM. Reason : .]

11/23/2010 12:25:14 AM

I didn't care for the camp fire scene.

The opening boat scene wasn't awful but it definitely could have been less cliche.

I actually liked the whole gangsta/nursing home scene. In fact I really enjoyed it. What is so far fetched about a group of young able-bodied street hardened guys securing the first building they can, and that building happens to be an nursing home?

[Edited on November 23, 2010 at 3:59 AM. Reason : ]

11/23/2010 3:52:54 AM

I don't think Merle lead the zombies to the camp, I think he literally hauled them there in the back of the box truck. I'm not certain on how he would have secured the cab because it was open to the box in the earlier episode. A cargo webbing may have been removed and laying to the side and Merle replaced it to use the truck to haul his payload.

I justify my suspicions because it was a small horde of zombies that was very dense, within the perimeter. Glen drove a car with the alarm blaring back to camp and the only zombie was eating the wounded deer. That and the box truck was used to escape from the department store without being followed en masse for long. It would have been hard to Merle to stick around long enough to slowly lead zombies around like a shepherd without have being spotted in the short time the crew was in the city.

11/23/2010 4:51:28 AM

Quote :

"have you even watched the fucking show? they ALWAYS call them geeks. jesus christ. OMFG NEED MORE ACTION LOLZ"

obvious troll is obvious...

11/23/2010 8:12:38 AM

My only thing about Merle is I would've thought they would hear the van...definitely was thinking that the camp fire scene was going be them hearing the van, getting excited, and see this crazy ass mo fo with one hand come barging out. Was pleasantly surprised it was a random zombie strike.

Plus, if he did get them in the van or led them to the camp, I wouldn't think he could lose them so easily. These zombies are pretty persistent in their pursuit.

I'm curious if that "hey look I raised the campfire wall" will come into play.

11/23/2010 8:22:52 AM

just caught up and watched this episode last night (i have to avoid this thread like the plague until i watch it... pun intended)

This was a solid episode. the ONLY complaint i have it how the fuck the zombies surprised the camp. I thought they had cans on a string strung around the camp. Anything coming up the hill would get stuck in it and rattle. Slightly disappointed this did not happen.

11/23/2010 9:01:54 AM

Quote :

"This was a solid episode. the ONLY complaint i have it how the fuck the zombies surprised the camp. I thought they had cans on a string strung around the camp. Anything coming up the hill would get stuck in it and rattle. Slightly disappointed this did not happen."

This has been discussed at length earlier, and it's a safe bet that Merle either led the zombies up the mountain, or got them up there by some other means.

Quote :

"I don't think Merle lead the zombies to the camp, I think he literally hauled them there in the back of the box truck."

This was my first thought when I saw them pop up at the camp, but with all the talk of him "leading" them up there, my attention was drawn elsewhere. It would've been painfully slow for Merle to drive at the speed necessary for the zombies to continue to give chase, and given that there appeared to be a set number of zombies (as the attack ended after a certain number were blasted), it looks like he rustled up an undead posse and rode on them bitches.

Quote :

"Home base attack was pretty well done too, but again I had zero idea who a lot of those dying survivors were."

I think that was the entire point of the cinematography there. It was shot in a way that purposefully disoriented and confused the viewer, as if you were a member of the camp scrambling to find safety. I quickly lost my sense of direction of the camp that had been built through the last few episodes, and that cranked up the 'oh shit' factor a little bit.

I sort of expected the group returning from the city to get their asses shot at as they were rushing from nowhere up the hill.

11/23/2010 9:37:35 AM

Quote :

"This has been discussed at length earlier, and it's a safe bet that Merle either led the zombies up the mountain, or got them up there by some other means."

How is that a safe bet? Just because Merle might have taken the truck doesn't automatically mean he's going to try to lead zombies to the camp to kill everyone. Even if he did want to kill some of the people there for all he knows his brother is there too, so why bring zombies to kill his brother?

11/23/2010 11:12:36 AM

I like the show so don't take this as criticism but,

Scene X: Jim, stop digging it must be over 100 degrees out here.
Scene Y: I built the camp fire walls up so we can stay warm at night!

If it's a 100 degree day in Atlanta then your ass is still sweating at night.

[Edited on November 23, 2010 at 12:42 PM. Reason : criticism]

11/23/2010 12:41:22 PM

^Yeah, that's true. What in hell Atlanta do they live in?

This was even a major plot point for introducing social roles within the camp.

11/23/2010 1:01:20 PM

^^ It's true that they wouldn't really need it for warmth, but if we're gonna start nitpicking this show that closely, I'm gonna have to stop reading this thread.

Because I can't stop myself from arguing the point anyways... they needed a fire to cook the fish on, and fires are nice to sit around and shoot the shit next to. It was more of a plot mechanic than anything else. Are the writers not allowed to use those?

11/23/2010 1:19:37 PM

Quote :

"Scene X: Jim, stop digging it must be over 100 degrees out here. Scene Y: I built the camp fire walls up so we can stay warm at night! If it's a 100 degree day in Atlanta then your ass is still sweating at night."

This is probably a symptom of a bunch of writers in SoCal forgeting/not knowing what the weather is like in the deep south. When they think "mountain wilderness" they are thinking desert where it is really hot during the day and cold at night.

11/23/2010 1:30:46 PM

Quote :

"How is that a safe bet? Just because Merle might have taken the truck doesn't automatically mean he's going to try to lead zombies to the camp to kill everyone. Even if he did want to kill some of the people there for all he knows his brother is there too, so why bring zombies to kill his brother?"

It's a strongly-educated guess:
1) Merle was crazy when he was first introduced.
+
2) The survivors locked his ass to a roof, dropped the key to the cuffs down a pipe, and (for all he knew) left him to die.
+
3) He was up there in the beating sun with no water and no food for at least a few hours, and we saw clear evidence that he's likely gone off of the deep end.
+
4) Rescuers find him gone, having cut off a hand, and beat his way out of the vicinity, while losing blood.
+
5) Rescuers (who Merle view as traitors who left him to die find their truck gone.
+
6) Before the rescuers can make it back, zombies suddenly show up in a large group at camp (when we had only seen a single zombie in the woods previously).


I'm not sure how many more steps you need to be laid out to connect the dots, and at least allow for the strong possibility that Merle's ass is the source of these things.

You (like some people in previous episodes) are imparting way too much rational thinking & planning to a man who was left to die, cut off his own hand, and has a score to settle.

Even if I grant that he did spend any amount of time thinking about his brother, I'm sure he thinks of him at least highly enough to know that his ass would be able to survive, while the other idiots panicked and got picked off. Or, he just doesn't give a flying fuck about anyone at this point and has been blinded by rage.

I'm not saying that the zombies involved in the attack weren't a group that had wandered out of the city, made it all the way up the mountain, and then found the camp (all in a relatively short period of time)...

It just doesn't seem logical that you go from seeing one stray zombie who had wandered up there and killed a deer to an entire fucking pack of them who somehow evade the defensive perimeter of cans and other shit the survivors set, and then attack en masse.

11/23/2010 2:46:26 PM

I like the theory, but I really want you to be wrong because you're an ass

11/23/2010 3:09:40 PM

I heard Merle brought some zombies back or something.

11/23/2010 6:54:30 PM

I really, really think that Merle will come back next season in the role of another character from the comics. Also that he probably had nothing to do with the zombie attack on the camp.

11/23/2010 6:58:30 PM

how far outside of atlanta is the camp? cuz the rescuers got back to camp just by jogging, around the same time the zombies attacked. that seems to lean more towards merle leading them there than packing them up and shipping them in the truck.

11/23/2010 7:03:28 PM

Quote :

"^^ It's true that they wouldn't really need it for warmth, but if we're gonna start nitpicking this show that closely, I'm gonna have to stop reading this thread. Because I can't stop myself from arguing the point anyways... they needed a fire to cook the fish on, and fires are nice to sit around and shoot the shit next to. It was more of a plot mechanic than anything else. Are the writers not allowed to use those?"

Wife beater got punked by Sheriff specifically because he added too much wood to the fire to stay warm.

Again, i'm not saying that the show sucks because of that. More like "Oh snap did you see the boom mic? LOL SMILEY FACE!!!"

11/23/2010 9:00:08 PM

^^ and what's to say that the zombies weren't just roaming around and happened to stumble upon the camp? with millions of zombies in atlanta, which is obviously within a somewhat reasonable walking distance, is it unrealistic to think that some of the zombies might just wander into them by chance?

11/23/2010 11:01:42 PM

Quote :

"obvious troll is obvious..."

troll my ass. unless you are the one trolling by pretending to not know they call them geeks ALL the time. (in which case I was certainly trolled.)

11/23/2010 11:22:19 PM

Just watched this ep. tonight. I really need to watch sundays so i can keep up with the thread.

^^ i think that scenario is unlikely. We have seen that a lot of the zombies in the show just sit down and "rest" when there is no reason to be up and moving. For ex., we have seen zombies just kicking it in cars, buses, in the first episode the one was just sitting against the fence post, etc. until they sense a food source near. They also seem to act autonomously. Yes, they group together around a food source. But they're ultimately acting individually.

We have precedent to think they just sit on their asses by themselves when nothing is around and don't really travel in any meaningful direction or with any real purpose unless they sense food. The idea of them traveling that far in a large group doesn't go along with anything we've seen so far.

We also know Merle had a vehicle and left the city before the group. He should have gotten back to the camp well before everyone else. Leading a hoard of zombies to the camp is a reasonable explanation as to why he didn't appear to be back before those traveling on foot. It's not a 100% guarantee... but it's sensible. And as so many have pointed out, the show is fairly predictable.

Quote :

"It would have been hard to Merle to stick around long enough to slowly lead zombies around like a shepherd without have being spotted in the short time the crew was in the city."

He may not have had to go into the city to herd them. It's reasonable to think they were coming after him and he simply found the truck. Once he was in, he could have driven straight from where the truck was to the camp slow enough for them to follow along without much danger.

Quote :

"The entire time I was expecting a zombie attack from under water from biting a line or something."

Me too. Ever since I've read WWZ, i'm looking for the underwater zombie attack.

Quote :

"Again, I don't know how you think they're supposed to cram loads of character development and zombie mayhem into six hours. I think they've made admirable use of little things -- short exchanges or monologues -- to give us a feel for many of the characters. It's pretty common in zombie media to take this approach, particularly in films."

Ehh, i agree with you. At the same time, I get what everyone else is saying. And I think it's kinda BS to say something isn't bad because they're not working with a traditional full season, it's typical of the genre, etc. Shit is shit, regardless of why it's there. Character development is seriously lacking. And there's a character named T-Dog, or T-Bone, or some stupid shit like that. Are there some things that make it difficult for them to have good character development? yes. Does it change the fact that character development is lacking? absolutely not.

Where I disagree with some is that I don't think we were ever supposed to care about some of these characters and thus, character development isn't needed for everyone. Did we really need to know the wife-beater's name? I feel like I knew everything i needed to know about that guy and everything the show wanted us to know, then he got killed. He didn't need to be multi-dimensional. I don't have to be attached to everyone that gets killed. And I don't even think we were really supposed to care about the girl who got killed. I think that is/will be more about the sister we've had screen time with losing her little sister and last remaining family member.

Quote :

"I think laughter, and maybe confusion, were exactly what they were looking for."

Unfortunately, I think he (along with most) were laughing at how cliche it was more so than with the scene. I knew what was going to happen as soon as the old lady appeared on screen. I don't know if that's from the comics or the show writers originally, but "tough guy proving not so tough when grandmother is present" isn't very original and not all that funny.

I did get a good laugh last week (i think) when Rick and Shane were fighting with/wrestling Merle's brother down and he said "Whoa, choke holds are illegal." -- that caught me off guard and made me laugh.

Quote :

"regardless of horribly written opening scenes with women arguing about fishing technique."

You really boiled that down to the bare minimum. I'm sure you didn't miss it, but obviously that scene was not about fishing but about their father and how he acknowledged how different they were but loved and treated each in the way they individually needed, and the fact that he's gone. And most importantly, to show the bond between the two sisters.

The scene was not great and failed in quite a few ways as a standalone scene. It did, however, serve it's purpose in showing that they were close and were all each had left (they mentioned their parents were on their own in florida -- most likely dead). Personally, I thought it was effective despite not being very eloquent.

[Edited on November 24, 2010 at 1:25 AM. Reason : .]

11/24/2010 1:23:34 AM

Quote :

"how far outside of atlanta is the camp? cuz the rescuers got back to camp just by jogging, around the same time the zombies attacked."

I was wondering this a bit as well...they must've hustled their asses to get back (or acquired another vehicle).

11/24/2010 11:46:13 AM

i thought the opening fishing scene between the two sisters was used so you had a little more emotional investment for what happens to them at the end of the episode.

11/24/2010 12:26:16 PM

Quote :

"troll my ass. unless you are the one trolling by pretending to not know they call them geeks ALL the time. (in which case I was certainly trolled.)"

i'm convinced you are retarded now. i clearly stated, 3 times now, that i have not heard them say that. if you can't understand that, then that's your fault.

Quote :

"i thought the opening fishing scene between the two sisters was used so you had a little more emotional investment for what happens to them at the end of the episode."

plz see :

Quote :

"yeah it was bad, and part of what made it so bad was the obvious "hey we're going to introduce you to this character, act like you should feel some attachment to her, bc we're gonna kill her off really soon" thing. it didn't really add heft. that's what they were going for, but it was just wayyyyy too obvious."

11/24/2010 12:28:32 PM