^ you know that from the book... my point is the movie had multiple plot holes.

3/27/2012 1:50:44 PM

One more thing I wanted to bring up in terms of ambiguous character development now that I've learned more...

Did anyone else get the impression that Peeta was supposed to be a sly bad guy throughout the movie?
-He was all too eager to create a show for the rich folks. I guess its expected, but they seemed to overemphasize his fixation.

-His relationship with Katness to me didn't see sincere based on what was seen in the movie. It seemed more like trying to butter up someone who is a strong fighter and survivor that you have some connection to. Probably just really rushed movie work that made it look like this.

-When he was picking berries and that girl following him died from supposedly eating the berries, the camera deviously panned to his red hands. I took this to mean he either had blood on his hands or smeared berries on her mouth after he killed her to make it look like an accident. Did he do the deed, or was that just terrible directing?

-Based on all this, when it was just Peeta and Katness talking about both of them eating berries at the end, my friends and I were like "Oh man, he can't beat her, so he's going to fake eating the berries to win".

So we ended up with the thought that he was supposed to be a bad guy. Guess that's not actually the case, huh?

3/27/2012 2:02:02 PM

Quote :

"^ you know that from the book... my point is the movie had multiple plot holes."

I agree with you about the plot holes. It just seems to me like the coal vs technology thing isn't as big a plot hole as the general lack of starvation and other issues. It wasn't pretty clear that the only nice things were related to the capitol or people from the capitol? If that was clear then it'd make sense for the district people to still be mining.

3/27/2012 2:07:56 PM

A movie has plot holes??? GET THE FUCK OUTTA HERE!!

3/27/2012 2:16:42 PM

^^^no, he's not supposed to be the bad guy. in the book peeta comes off as a weak (mind, not body), kinda dumb (imo), emotional boy. they don't have to tell him to fake a love connection; it just comes naturally from him. other than that, he just kinda does what he's told pretty much. he's not conniving at all.

it's been a while since i read these books & my memory gets a little fuzzy, but he's definitely not a bad guy.

[Edited on March 27, 2012 at 2:35 PM. Reason : ]

3/27/2012 2:33:02 PM

Quote :

"he's not conniving at all"

then why was he working with the baddies to track down katniss?? I couldn't understand why she just forgave him for stabbing her in the back like that and joining up to hunt her down. Didn't make sense

[Edited on March 27, 2012 at 2:42 PM. Reason : ]

3/27/2012 2:42:31 PM

there was an explanation in the book. i can't remember it though. maybe someone who's read them more recently can.

3/27/2012 2:47:35 PM

He pretended to be the bad guy during the games when he was with the careers but that was just so he could watch them and try to divert them away from Katniss. That obviously didn't work at first but he did give her the chance to escape after the tracker jackers attacked.

In the book it took her a little while to figure out who's side he was really on. It wasn't until they announced that two kids could go home that she really decided he was good.

[Edited on March 27, 2012 at 2:50 PM. Reason : ]

3/27/2012 2:48:02 PM

I came away eith the feeling that he was "playing the game" before the arena because he knew he stood no chance and needed all the help he could get. He said as much before they met hammich, and then again with his outburst at dinner.

Didnt seem like a bad guy, just seemed like he knew he was fucked and was doing he best

3/27/2012 3:28:49 PM

Quote :

"Yes there are people of all ages and all genders, but I think that teenage age group outnumbers any other and they kept that in mind. Why do you think they made the movie PG-13? JMO"

Agreed 100%. If it's rated R you automatically cut out a large portion of the potential market. Most summer blockbusters will be pg-13 -- that rating allows for something for everyone. But keeps, as you mentioned, the biggest movie going demographic (teenagers) in.

When I read targeted at "15-year old girls" though, I thought Twilight. I don't know if you've seen a twilight movie in a theater (i'll admit that I have), but it was all women minus a few guys who were there with a girl. I, honestly, have never seen anything like it as far as a theater audience goes. This crowd was considerably different.

3/27/2012 3:37:00 PM

Quote :

"^^^no, he's not supposed to be the bad guy. in the book peeta comes off as a weak (mind, not body), kinda dumb (imo), emotional boy. they don't have to tell him to fake a love connection; it just comes naturally from him. other than that, he just kinda does what he's told pretty much. he's not conniving at all. "

Wow, I didn't get that impression of Peeta at all.

3/27/2012 4:15:57 PM

okay. add "IMO" to the end of my post.

3/27/2012 4:24:53 PM

Nah, I get that it's your opinion of him, it's just fascinating to me how we can read the same book and have such polar opposite opinions of the same character.

3/27/2012 4:54:04 PM

Yeah...Peeta came off as being pretty damn smart and strong minded in the book. The only "weak" part about him was that he was madly in love with Katniss. I honestly can't see how you could have gotten that from the book.

3/27/2012 5:15:45 PM

^Agreed.

The kid ain't dumb, and in fact is very astute at working the crowd (though the film didn't show this as well as it might have)

3/27/2012 5:23:23 PM

well, i'm sorry you don't agree with me, but that's just how i remember it. it's been too long for me to call out any examples of anything so i'm not going to try. that's just my opinion..and...yeah...the end.

3/27/2012 5:26:33 PM

Id say the fm tried to show it as best as it cpuld... Through the "trust me, theyll love it" moments etc

3/27/2012 6:34:57 PM

You're allowed to have opinions. This particular opinion just happens to be demonstrably incorrect. Well, unless you also have an opinion on the definitions of "weak" and "dumb" that clashes with accepted definitions, but that opens an entire can of worms about the nature of language.

I don't want to sound like I think the kid was a genius or anything. Honestly didn't much care for him in the first two books, because the only way to preserve my dignity while reading a young-adult trilogy with a love triangle was to put all my investment in characters who were good at killing (Katniss) or, at the very least, being drunk (Haymitch).

3/27/2012 9:38:29 PM

Peeta is a very good actor, Katniss is not. This is explained in the books.

3/27/2012 9:46:33 PM

lol, you're telling me my opinion is wrong?

3/27/2012 11:33:21 PM

T'would seem so

3/28/2012 12:08:26 AM

just read the first book in about 10 hours. I really couldn't put it down. I'm pumped to see the movie now. also just bought the other two books, plan to finish them by the weekend. has a little bit of a tween kind of feel to it, but very good nonetheless.

3/28/2012 1:24:24 AM

Haha, you guys should just remember how this Peeta personality discussion started. I still hold that in the context of what the movie provided, he was conveyed as a conniving Palpatine-like character. I'll still say this was most likely due to bad directing and character development.

Comparatively, your discussion might as well be about blue vs off-blue.

[Edited on March 28, 2012 at 10:43 AM. Reason : ]

3/28/2012 10:43:13 AM

ended up seeing this last night with the original intention of seeing something else. I had not heard of this series until about 2 weeks ago.

Some opinions from an uninformed hunger games viewer:

-story was interesting, but pretty fucked up if you think about it. Also, parents need to shut the fuck up now about violent movies if they endorse their tweens seeing movies about teenagers murdering each other in cold blood

-art direction/production value was abysmal. Movie has no unique lighting style, grade/look, or set design.....and I got motion sickness from all the fucking handheld neck-up shots. I'd literally say 50% of the movie were ultra tight handheld shots. How many fucking near-macro shots did we see of the main characters chin/lips/face?

-I liked the actress that played katniss

-Overall, I can tell they were targeting the Twilight crowd given the whole love triangle thin and low production values, but I think the politics backstory will be interesting.

3/28/2012 11:19:54 AM

Yeah you'd think a movie about kids killing each other would cause some sort of outrage

3/28/2012 11:32:17 AM

I have a couple more questions:

What was with holding up the three fingers? I didn't think much of it at the time other than it was some sort "we're with you" gesture. But now I'm thinking there is probably some back-story to it.

Is there anything to Peeta saying he smelled like Roses and then telling the other guy that he smelled like roses more?

3/28/2012 2:43:45 PM

For the first question, the hand gesture is a sign of ultimate respect. Akin to respecting Katniss more than the government. So, it was both respect, and rebellion wrapped up into one.

I can't answer the second one, since I haven't seen the movie yet. But roses do have importance throughout the book.

3/28/2012 2:56:49 PM

The importance of the roses only applies to President Snow, and that isn't explored until the second book. Peeta and Caesar were just goofing around, saying the showers made him smell like roses even though everything smells terrible in D12.

3/28/2012 5:06:55 PM

^ this

3/28/2012 5:38:51 PM

If I remember correctly, in the book, haymitch tells peeta to join up with the careers to stay alive because they will keep him alive to find katniss. In the movie they didn't really show that because in the book he protects katniss from Cato, not just tell her to run. That's how he gets the leg injury.

Also, they probably showed peeta with red on his hands from the berries to show how close he was to dying as well. It is clear in the book that he didn't know what he was picking In the book and the movie somewhat, it was really one of the moments where it showed how different/opposite peeta and katniss are, which comes into significance later in the series

[Edited on March 28, 2012 at 6:14 PM. Reason : E]

[Edited on March 28, 2012 at 6:14 PM. Reason : R]

3/28/2012 6:08:22 PM

http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/10918579/

Yeah, middle school seems a little young for this book.

3/28/2012 6:57:02 PM

Spoiler Plot Hole Alert












Maybe I missed this, but when the black dude from 11 saved Katniss life and then spared it when he could have killed her, he said "this was for Rue". Except how the hell would he have known Rue n Kat were teamed up, or that she killed Rues killer, or that she treated Rues body with respect. He had no way of knowing that and therefore had no motivation to spare her.


Oh yeah, the movie was pretty weak in my opinion also. I get that its a kids movie trying to have adult themes, but I think it failed in this by downplaying the violence and oppression aspects. Im sure the book was better about this, but it seemed the movie kind of sugar coated it.

3/28/2012 7:43:39 PM

He heard the girl about to kill Katniss talking about being Rue's friend and helping her, duh.

3/28/2012 10:34:42 PM

All she said was that they killed "her friend Rue". From the black dudes perspective, this could have been the chick being sarcastic and mocking before she killed Kat. He would still have had no idea that Kat and Rue were really friends and teamed up, nor that Kat was respectful to Rue when she died and then respectful to her body. Based only on hearing the "orphan" girl taunting Kat, he would have had no incentive to spare Kat after killing orphan girl.

3/28/2012 11:03:11 PM

IIRC, in the book he questioned Katniss after killing what's her face, and when he could tell Katniss was being sincere he told her it was just that once (then he left)

3/28/2012 11:06:47 PM

How was that girl an orphan? I don't think her background was ever discussed. And whats this "respectful to her body" business? Is that not the norm? Do the other tributes typically skull fuck their victim's corpes? I'm sure that gets big ratings for Donald Sutherland.


Josh Hutcherson killed it for me. Absolutely ruined the movie. Lawrence wasn't bad, and its not her fault they jammed the camera in her face every five seconds. But Hutcherson? Jesus Christ. Compared to him, Lenny Kravitz is Denzel. He cheapened the entire experience for me as he whined thru his scenes like a little bitch. I have no idea what they were thinking when they cast him. Had they not seen Zathura?

3/28/2012 11:19:58 PM

The girl that played Clove for whom he speaks was the same girl from the movie "The Orphan"

3/28/2012 11:22:01 PM

Watched it tonight. Liked the book, liked the movie. Obviously stuff will always get left out in the movie, but you can't make 4/5 hour movies to include everything. They did a good job, IMO, of getting most of the important stuff in and portraying the characters the way I saw them in the book. I mean...they pretty much nailed almost everyone (Haymitch, Caesar, Effie, Snow, Gale, Katniss, Prim, Rue, etc.). Peeta could have been a little more "stout"...but that's about it.

3/28/2012 11:31:35 PM

Quote :

"How was that girl an orphan? I don't think her background was ever discussed. And whats this "respectful to her body" business? Is that not the norm? Do the other tributes typically skull fuck their victim's corpes?"

well it seemed that no one left flowers on a body. after the big first melee scene, it showed a bunch of kids left to rot in the sun. no one seemed to pay any real respects or even bury the bodies. Later scenes of the cornucopia showed no bodies, so I dont know if they were removed or if the director just didnt want to show a bunch of week old corpses rotting. If they didnt remove the bodies, that whole area would be pretty nasty smelling in a few days....I would know I was in Haiti after the quake.

[Edited on March 28, 2012 at 11:34 PM. Reason : .]

3/28/2012 11:33:19 PM

Quote :

"Maybe I missed this, but when the black dude from 11 saved Katniss life and then spared it when he could have killed her, he said "this was for Rue". Except how the hell would he have known Rue n Kat were teamed up, or that she killed Rues killer, or that she treated Rues body with respect. He had no way of knowing that and therefore had no motivation to spare her."

I thought the same thing during the scene, but just let it go. Then I thought about it again and it annoyed me, so I pretended that a sponsor sent him something and a note told him that Katniss was tight with Rue and what not.

3/28/2012 11:51:58 PM

^ that was my first thought in the book they get a lot more parachutes... like kat/peeta get food from district 11 when they're stuck in the cave because of how she treated Rue etc.


or I thought he was just overhearing Clove gloating about how she killed rue and decided to fuck her up. The careers don't seem like the type of people to "be sarcastic" about that kind of shit, they fucking volunteered for the games after all. Killing people and being ruthless is what they do.

If I was thresh I'd have come to that conclusion and probably done the same thing.

3/29/2012 12:57:55 AM

Quote :

"Also, they probably showed peeta with red on his hands from the berries to show how close he was to dying as well. It is clear in the book that he didn't know what he was picking In the book and the movie somewhat, it was really one of the moments where it showed how different/opposite peeta and katniss are, which comes into significance later in the series"

They completely left out Katniss' botany skills until that moment, so if I hadn't read the book I would probably be wondering how she knew but he didn't. But iirc she kept an entire journal of plants and what they are used for.

Quote :

"Later scenes of the cornucopia showed no bodies, so I dont know if they were removed or if the director just didnt want to show a bunch of week old corpses rotting."

The hovercrafts swoop in and pick up the bodies as soon as the area has been cleared, very soon after the cannon goes off.

3/29/2012 3:01:38 AM

Thresh overheard the girl say everything. She said she killed Katniss' "friend" Rue. So he killed the girl that killed Rue and saved her "friend." Not that difficult to understand.

And yeah...everyone in the games is pretty brutal. No one has burials or pays any respect...especially with people from opposite districts. They made it seem to be a pretty big deal in the book. But I think it's pretty obvious from the movie. It's a game of savages and she takes the time to "bury" someone.

I guess it's because I read the book, but I'm surprised at how much you guys are missing.

3/29/2012 6:51:05 AM

Quote :

"Thresh overheard the girl say everything. She said she killed Katniss' "friend" Rue. So he killed the girl that killed Rue and saved her "friend." Not that difficult to understand."

I don't think anyone missed that. We're just saying it's a little silly. The tributes don't know what's going on with the other tributes. We knew that Katniss was helping Rue, killed the guy who killed her, was very respectful of her, and grieved for her because we saw it. The people in the districts saw it on tv and it was clear they truly respected Katniss for what she had done. And it would make sense for Thresh to respect her as well for that. But Thresh would not have known ANY of that other than the girl (Clove, I think) saying her "friend", which could mean just about anything in that context, and certainly doesn't suggest all of what actually happened. All Thresh knew was that Rue died (because he would have seen the update in the sky like all of the other tributes) and while storming into to get supplies/some kills he over heard Clove say "we killed your friend."

And how did Clove even know anything about Rue being her "friend?" How did she know they were helping each other if they had successfully been hiding from them and we never saw the careers see Katniss and Rue together at any point? I could assume that some how they figured it out while tracking them or something, but the audience shouldn't have to make all of these assumptions for something to add up. Considering what Thresh actually knew, not what we knew, his reaction didn't make a ton of sense.

Shoot, how does Clove know that Katniss didn't kill Rue and the other guy, or that Peeta or Thresh didn't? If she had been close enough to see it happen, she would have tried to kill Katniss while she was sitting there for who knows how long taking care of Rue. Which means all she would actually know is that Rue and the other guy died. They wouldn't know how or by who's hands. Maybe they found the body and could tell it was spear wound and they knew that their guy carried a spear?

I'm not saying I couldn't get past it or that it ruined the movie, but it doesn't add up as neatly as you make it seem.

[Edited on March 29, 2012 at 7:51 AM. Reason : .]

3/29/2012 7:42:30 AM

they had found rue when katniss was trying to distract the careers to destroy the food. in the movie you saw that one of the careers stayed back to wait for katniss to come back to rescue her out of the trap.

granted he died, but it's not hard for the careers to deduce that in that situation rue and katniss were working together.

oh and i believe that the funeral scene was not shown in the districts (described in the book)

3/29/2012 7:45:51 AM

^ see, i didn't think it was that clear one of them stayed back where Rue was trapped vs. just coming along to check the trap (as in the net was a the type of trap that you trigger when you trip a wire, move something, etc) because he had heard Rue screaming like Katniss had.

And if they knew that Katniss was the one who destroyed the food, why didn't they hunt her down immediately? She couldn't have been more than a few hundred yards away from the camp, and if they set that all up as a trap, they would have gone there looking for her... right? Yet she had plenty of time to grieve and do all of the burial stuff.

I thought being around there for so long, so close to their camp and with rue making all of that noise while trapped was risky as it was. But thinking that Rue being in the net was a trap set by the careers makes this even more ridiculous. They would have been pissed about the supplies, known that she had to be close by, and started hunting her while they had the chance. I think they would have headed toward the supposed trap for her since that's where they would expect her to go and would have had the drop on her easily since she was spending her time picking flowers and crying.

[Edited on March 29, 2012 at 8:04 AM. Reason : .]

3/29/2012 7:56:12 AM

You've got to fit a detailed book into a 2/3 hour movie. You can't go into 10-minute asides to explain everything. They put a little in there and hope it suffices. You can't be so nitpicky when watching a movie like this.

3/29/2012 8:15:43 AM

But this is TWW.... Nitpicking is what we do.

3/29/2012 8:22:58 AM

Quote :

"^ see, i didn't think it was that clear one of them stayed back where Rue was trapped vs. just coming along to check the trap (as in the net was a the type of trap that you trigger when you trip a wire, move something, etc) because he had heard Rue screaming like Katniss had. And if they knew that Katniss was the one who destroyed the food, why didn't they hunt her down immediately? She couldn't have been more than a few hundred yards away from the camp, and if they set that all up as a trap, they would have gone there looking for her... right? Yet she had plenty of time to grieve and do all of the burial stuff. I thought being around there for so long, so close to their camp and with rue making all of that noise while trapped was risky as it was. But thinking that Rue being in the net was a trap set by the careers makes this even more ridiculous. They would have been pissed about the supplies, known that she had to be close by, and started hunting her while they had the chance. I think they would have headed toward the supposed trap for her since that's where they would expect her to go and would have had the drop on her easily since she was spending her time picking flowers and crying. "

Holy fucking shit. Why do you even watch movies....you should just make your own perfect movie where everything is explained in a ten hour epic.

3/29/2012 9:02:05 AM

I don't think the careers set that trap knowing what Katniss and Rue were doing, and I think it was just a coincidence.

LunaK, the burial was televised if IIRC

3/29/2012 9:18:21 AM