Quote :

"I always thought that place was incredibly overrated."

i've never once heard a good thing about that place.

[Edited on June 25, 2012 at 1:35 PM. Reason : for the new page, this is mint we're talking about]

6/25/2012 1:35:18 PM

When I worked downtown some of my coworkers acted like it was the best restaurant in downtown Raleigh. I never got the appeal.

6/25/2012 1:42:40 PM

Quote :

" I doubt it's entirely that they're opposed to progress. It could even not be that at all. The simple fact is that any effective rail system is outrageously expensive and one large enough to be useful to a large part of the population would never turn a profit, break even, or even cover it's operational expenses. It's a matter of money and unfortunately the economy isn't turning around any time soon."

It's not, though. The Commissioners refused to even allow the plan to be DISCUSSED. Coble's response to a request to have a discussion on the plan was "Nah." They don't want it to be discussed, they don't want the public to see the plan, they don't want the public to vote on the plan.

I would also say that your mindset is pretty flawed on this subject. It's a mindset that most opponents to transit have, and one that I don't really understand. Public transit will not turn a profit or break even, that is correct. Some do cover their operation expenses, though, but that is besides the point. The point is, they've never been expected to break even, just like every other part of our transportation system. Which of the millions of miles of roads we've paved everywhere break even? Transit gets held to a completely different standard for some reason which I will never get. Like roads, it is a public good and an infrastructure investment, not a for-profit enterprise. No one seems to ever speak up when we build a new road to serve a new subdivision of a hundred people built on a greenfields site. Not that I am against roads (well, maybe a bit), but let's admit that we've never viewed transportation as a money making enterprise, and we shouldn't. Transportation infrastructure is one of the more clear roles that a government should have.

It's a true, an expanded transit system isn't going to cause some sudden shift in how most people in the region travel. Rome wasn't built in a day. It's about two things: One, giving people choices. With a legitimate public transit system that is actually convenient and efficient, there will be opportunities for those who cannot drive a car, do not want to drive a car or sometimes do not want to drive a car to not be forced to do so. Car ownership should not be a mandate; we love to talk about freedom in this country, yet we are basically birthed into a contract that we will spend thousands of dollars a year owning, maintaining and operating a car.

Secondly, it's about smarter growth. Just how far do we allow Raleigh to sprawl into the countryside (it's already gone pretty damn far) before we say enough is enough? People love to say Raleigh isn't dense enough for transit, but it's a total chicken and egg argument. Good transit is what encourages the density; there will be significant development around transit hubs. The Raleigh metro area is the fastest growing in the nation and is expected to be for the next twenty years. Where will all those people go? More mcmansions in the outer rings of the region? Build more and more beltlines? Does a 2 hour car commute become the norm?

A region as fast-growing, educated and tech-oriented as the Triangle needs better transit. There is a heavy demand for it; people want options, they want to be able to have a choice in how they get around. With all the money government seems to throw around in various areas, transit is one of the few that seems to be a no brainer.

6/25/2012 2:22:00 PM

^You're slightly mistaken, in that I'm not an opponent of light rail in Raleigh. I just don't see how it can be done financially. Nobody has the money these days. I lived up north and road the subway to work every day. And loved it. I just don't see how we can do it here. Though I agree you have to start somewhere.

Quote :

"^ That's fine if they think that way, but put it on the ballot and let the people decide if they're willing to pay an extra tax to get the ball rolling."

Understandable, but it would fail. If the "tax" or whatever reflected the real price tag it wouldn't even be close.

[Edited on June 25, 2012 at 2:24 PM. Reason : k]

6/25/2012 2:22:21 PM

The latest polls showed a slight majority supporting the referendum, and that's without any real publicity or push for the plan. This whole thing all too closely resembles what Charlotte went through in the 90's. I can only hope that it will also resemble it in that it will eventually be seen through and met with great success. All the same arguments were made there, but the public voted overwhelmingly for the referendum (twice in fact) and ridership smashed all projections. I love Raleigh and have never been a big fan of Charlotte, but they've got it right on transportation recently. It's transformative what has been happening down there, and they are ahead of Raleigh in the bicycle and pedestrian game as well it would seem.

Ride the light rail from South Blvd to Uptown and you will be amazed by the development that has occurred around the line, revitalizing old industrial areas. I think there is a huge demand in Raleigh to live in those sorts of places, but there is currently nothing to serve it.

With all this talk of light rail, though, I think it has to be stressed that the most immediate and widespread impact of the transit plan would be the doubling of bus service, which is probably the most critical element.

I know economic times are bad right now, so everyone is more skeptical than usual of tax hikes or government spending, but given the time it takes to implement these sorts of things, it needed to be started yesterday. Plus, right now there is a transit-friendly administration in Washington (though possibly not for much longer), and competitive bidding for projects given the shortage of work in the downturn. I think Raleigh is ready for this, and I think it could pass a referendum. Unfortunately, the people won't be given the chance to decide.

6/25/2012 2:39:28 PM

If we passed a bill for it tomorrow, we wouldn't be getting on the train for 15 years. So sad

Hopefully all the northern transplants will help to strengthen the will to get this built.

[Edited on June 25, 2012 at 3:46 PM. Reason : k]

6/25/2012 3:44:46 PM

On a completely different note, I would love to see Raleigh launch a bike share. These things have been taking off recently all over the country and the world, and they've been revolutionary in my mind. They're extremely cheap (often at zero cost to the taxpayers with a corporate sponsor), easy as hell to implement, and they have the potential to solve the "last mile" problem that has vexed transportation planners for decades. Raleigh still needs to do a lot (and I mean a lot) in terms of improving bicycle infrastructure, but put a few stations around downtown, at NC State, Cameron Village, Five Points, etc, and I could see it being a hit. Charlotte currently has one in the works that they hope to launch soon.

6/25/2012 5:08:07 PM

A nice start would be bike friendly roads. They're incredibly rare

6/26/2012 8:37:18 AM

Downtown, Cameron Village and Hillsborough St area is improving a lot.

6/26/2012 10:58:42 AM

But it already was easy to ride a bike on those streets, as the speed limits are all 35 mph or less. Very little to fear from someone going 50 mph. Meanwhile most of the main roads in Cary and "suburban" Raleigh have 45 mph limits and no bike lanes. I like riding, but hate knowing that all it takes is one asshole texting while driving to put me in the hospital or worse, the ground.

6/26/2012 2:30:08 PM

Looks like folks were planning on a bike share two years ago.

Quote :

"Meanwhile, Donald Mertrud is working with the city to put bike-share kiosks in strategic spots around downtown. N.C. State University launched a similar version, called WolfWheels, last month for students and staff. Mertrud, who owns the Raleigh Rickshaws pedicab business, envisions solar-powered kiosks, where tourists and city residents can rent bicycles for use on streets and greenways. Although the city is consulting with Mertrud on the venture, called City of Spokes, no taxpayer money will go to fund it. His target audience will be people who live in Raleigh, and he expects to see things improve quickly for cyclists. "It's all coming down the line," Mertrud said. "It's just a matter of time.""

http://www.newsobserver.com/2010/04/24/452094/raleigh-poised-to-become-bike.html

Update from 2 weeks ago:
http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/11209215/

6/26/2012 2:34:15 PM

Oh god I made the mistake of going to the comments section on that article

6/26/2012 2:56:02 PM

I did as well.

6/26/2012 3:05:10 PM

I went to Oro last night. The food was off the hook. We got truffle mac & cheese, shrimp & grits, three bean cake, red and golden yellow beet salad, sizzling catfish and 2 desserts. Its tapas style so everything is shared. My husband and our friend shared a bottle of wine. I think all together the bill was like $150.00 ($66 of that was the bottle of wine)

6/29/2012 9:05:30 AM

Quote :

"Raleigh police are also getting trained on bicyclists' rights and traffic laws relating to them."

Hopefully this includes learning to ticket bicyclists that do stupid shit.

6/29/2012 9:18:36 AM

^ I wouldn't hold your breath on that one

6/29/2012 9:25:47 AM

^^A lot of cyclists flaunt the law and act like idiots on their bikes, no doubt about it. But, going after them at this point is a misguided cause. For one, it's not like most motorists are really following the law to a T, and while a motorist is driving a giant piece of steel that can kill instantly, a cyclist is really only putting their only life at risk (though no doubt pedestrians can be seriously injured or killed by cyclists).

The main issue, though, is that there are so few people actually using bicycling for transportation in Raleigh that if you really want to encourage it you can't start going after the few people who are doing it. It's not some epidemic problem. If cycling ever truly were to take hold and Raleigh were to ever look more like Portland in that respect, then sure, it's time to start holding cyclists more responsible. New York City has been doing this lately, though they have gone completely overboard (last year the NYPD issued more summonses to cyclists than truck drivers!).

Either way, cyclists do need to be more respectful of the law and others on the road. A part of this is just simple education, as many just have never really learned how to bike on the road. Conversely, most motorists have never learned how to share the road.

6/29/2012 10:08:55 AM

considering roads are paid for by people who drive automobiles, it seems like bike people should learn to avoid the cars... you know the things that modern roads are built for?

6/29/2012 11:12:51 AM

^when they start taxing bicyclists (requiring registration for use, etc.) and create more / better bike lanes, I think that argument will be valid. until then, we're all in this shitty situation together and just have to learn to share the space.

6/29/2012 11:34:12 AM

User fees only pay a fraction of the cost of roads. If governments wants to raise the gas tax or implement a VMT tax so that motorists actually pay for the cost of roads, then I'll concede your point.

6/29/2012 12:09:29 PM

Also, modern roads are built for heavy trucks, so maybe cars should also get off the road.

6/29/2012 12:10:11 PM

a bike lane would be a fractional addition. we're not talking about paying for the entire road system.

6/29/2012 12:13:55 PM

Sorry I should have clarified that I was responding to Smath's post. I agree with you on bike lanes. All they require is paint. They can be zero cost in scenarios where the road is being repaved anyway, because it has to be restriped no matter what. In tough economic times with spending constraints, bike infrastructure is a great bang for your buck investment. Portland created its entire bicycle network (one of the best in the nation) for less than the cost of one mile of urban freeway. And since we love talking about jobs, studies have shown that bicycle projects create twice as many jobs per dollar as highway.

6/29/2012 12:18:54 PM

Quote :

"Conversely, most motorists have never learned how to [s]share the road[s/] drive"

Fixed it.

Quote :

"considering roads are paid for by people who drive automobiles, it seems like bike people should learn to avoid the cars... you know the things that modern roads are built for?"

Besides what Vulcan said about the low cost of implementation, do you have any idea how little wear and tear bicycles put on the roads compared to a mid-sized car? Never mind a 5+ ton truck? It's probably not even measurable.

6/29/2012 1:21:06 PM

Raleigh Planning Commission approved the building of a 23 story mixed use building on the lot that was formerly the site of the Edison. Ground breaking could begin as early as this year.

http://www2.nbc17.com/news/2012/jun/26/new-high-rise-apartment-building-works-raleigh-ar-2385640/

Link is old but I hadn't heard about this until today.

7/3/2012 2:28:51 PM

Reminds me of 2006, but instead of condos we're calling them apartments.

Certainly the market will never become saturated.

7/3/2012 2:46:04 PM

Would you say the downtown rental market is saturated at this time?

7/3/2012 2:54:23 PM

nope.

here at pnc 40% of the units are rentals and they are all full with people waiting...

7/3/2012 5:03:17 PM

It isn't right now, but so many units are coming online in the next few years that supply could outpace demand.

7/3/2012 5:16:01 PM

VULCANTry riding a motorcycle and having an idiot biker cut in front of you while you have a green light. My motorcycle might be bigger but I would still be just as hurt if not more hurt if I actually hit them. Cyclists need to learn to follow the signs of the road if they are going to ride on them.

7/5/2012 9:09:32 AM

I don't disagree with you, I'm just saying that targeting cyclists probably isn't the best use of resources in the grand scheme of things. Trust me, I've seen cyclists doing plenty of idiotic things and it drives me nuts. Whenever I go into NYC I am on foot, and as a pedestrian there cyclists make me want to rage sometimes when they run red lights, fly through crosswalks or go the wrong way up one-way streets. But, I am constantly seeing motorists do stupid things as well, and they are putting people far more at risk. By all means, though, there are a lot of cyclists who need to be more educated on how to ride in the road and to be more respectful; it only hurts our cause when they aren't.

[Edited on July 5, 2012 at 9:21 AM. Reason : .]

7/5/2012 9:21:20 AM

In fairness, I have to address my previous negative comments regarding Oro. I went back last night to give them a second chance and it did not disappoint.

Friend ordered the shrimp and grits, which is what I previously ordered. Terrible before, awesome this time! Idk what the fuck they did the first time but it was a completely different experience. Skewered pork belly was freaking delicious as well. They should open a window and just sell that one item to all the drunkards at 2am.

7/7/2012 2:04:54 PM

ummm Bike Lanes would be expensive.

and there is definitely still a need for rentals downtown. It's still almost entirely condos (at least by design).

7/7/2012 3:33:05 PM

^^ they just workin out the kinks

7/7/2012 7:20:00 PM

Quote :

"ummm Bike Lanes would be expensive."

Do explain

7/8/2012 8:34:01 PM

Tried Oro again. It was bad.

Instead of spending money on iPads for servers they should have spent more time on the menu.

7/14/2012 10:16:34 PM

Quote :

"Reminds me of 2006, but instead of condos we're calling them apartments. Certainly the market will never become saturated."

There are at least 3-4,000 apartments on tap for Downtown Raleigh to be completed in the next 2-3 years. Right now, its hot, but I just don't see the job market supporting the growth in luxury apartments that is taking place in downtown condos. Time will tell though, I agree that the market may be saturated for awhile after all these projects get finished up. Will be great for downtown though there is no doubt about it.

7/15/2012 12:13:53 AM

http://www.newsobserver.com/2012/03/24/1958013/once-home-to-raleigh-ballpark.html

Quote :

"RALEIGH -- An expanse of land just north of downtown moved closer to a greener future this month when the city began relocating a sanitation and fleet yard to a new home outside the Beltline. The land, which has spent the past 30 years as a parking lot for garbage trucks, is envisioned as a park and greenway that supporters hope will enliven an aging gateway into downtown. Called Devereux Meadows, the planned 15-acre park takes its name from the minor league ballpark that once anchored the site along the west side of Capital Boulevard between Peace Street and Wade Avenue. "

I remember hearing about this idea years ago and kind of just figured the idea had died out. Glad to see they're still planning on it.

7/20/2012 11:07:31 AM

Was this the same area that was supposed to have a riverwalk of some kind?

7/20/2012 11:26:46 AM

This is essentially the area between 5 points and capital correct?

7/20/2012 12:16:15 PM

Sort of. It's between Capital and N West St, north of Peace. It sits in a depression and can be easy to miss.

Oddly enough the old baseball stadium that sat there was home to the Raleigh-Durham Mets.

7/20/2012 12:23:55 PM

Quote :

"Was this the same area that was supposed to have a riverwalk of some kind? "

I think so but if I remember correctly they decided that was kind of a dumb idea considering it's the most polluted waterway in Raleigh

7/20/2012 12:45:03 PM

http://www.newsobserver.com/2012/07/30/2231446/citrix-to-locate-downtown-hq-in.html

Quote :

"Information technology company Citrix Systems plans to locate its new downtown Raleigh headquarters in the old Dillon Supply steel warehouse on West Street, a move that could usher in a wave of new development in an area now occupied mostly by arts groups. Citrix’s ambitious plans call for the warehouse at 120 S. West Street to be transformed into a 130,000 square-foot, 2-story structure. The building directly north of the warehouse would be replaced with a 6-story parking garage. The warehouse’s 50,000-square-foot roof will include a fitness center, a yoga studio, a bocce court and a restaurant with indoor and outdoor seating. “What we’re hoping to do with Red Hat having moved downtown and now Citrix putting a really big footprint downtown is to hopefully accomplish the same kind of thing in downtown Raleigh that has happened in Durham with the historic tobacco district,” said Jesse Lipson, vice president and general manager of ShareFile, the company’s data sharing division."

7/30/2012 2:30:16 PM

^awesome news for the warehouse district. People may be disappointed with the lack of skyscrapers, but raleigh is doing some great infill work during this mini-depression.

Green Square, SECU, Red Hat coming downtown, glenwood south apartment explosion, both ends of H-boro street, CAM, and plenty more.

7/30/2012 3:31:35 PM

New Burger Joint and Coffee Shop coming to Seaboard Station

http://www.newraleigh.com/article/bad-daddys-burger-bar-blend-and-grind-coffee-and-more-coming-to-seaboard-st/

7/30/2012 4:37:35 PM

7/31/2012 1:55:26 PM

http://www.newraleigh.com/article/peace-street-townes-townhomes-proposed-for-person-street/

7/31/2012 2:28:24 PM

Quote :

"The new condos, called Peace Street Townes, will sit across from Krispy Kreme. "

Prime real estate baby.

7/31/2012 3:03:45 PM

^^^ I heard the Cary one is supposed to open next month in that new shopping center on the corner of Cary Parkway and 54.

7/31/2012 3:04:40 PM

Quote :

"I went to Oro last night. The food was off the hook. We got truffle mac & cheese, shrimp & grits, three bean cake, red and golden yellow beet salad, sizzling catfish and 2 desserts. Its tapas style so everything is shared. My husband and our friend shared a bottle of wine. I think all together the bill was like $150.00 ($66 of that was the bottle of wine)"

Oro.... good idea, poor execution.

My experience was contrary to yours. Food was mediocre. Mac&cheese tasted like kraft with bread crumbs. crab cakes tasted like fish. desert was good, and i like the format. Service was average (read: not bad)

unfortunate about the food.

8/1/2012 1:20:49 PM