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1/17/2012 2:53:20 PM

i suck fucking ass at wide grip pull ups.

what do?

as in, can't get one out.

been trying negatives, once or twice a week. along with some other stuff.

i want to get to 3x10 for chins/dips (15)/wide grip pull-ups, then start adding weight.

at the end of last year i was using the assisted machine to help get there, slowly dropping weight off, but i decided fuck that i'll just go to failure unassisted and see what happens.

in two weeks, chins have gone from 3x10 with 55lb assist to 9,8,5 unassisted... dips from 3x15 w/ 40lbs assist to 15,10,9 unassisted.

wide grip pullups? nope. it's kinda silly really.

granted, i seem to only try them after working back and shoulders, but not to full exhaustion (not training for hypertrophy).

go back to try assisted? more negatives? say fuck it and do it every time i work out until i get them consistently?

1/18/2012 11:15:20 AM

do you do any wide pull downs/rows? i can't really say what helped me train up to them, i suppose just overall general back strength. If you can do 3 normal pull ups you should be able to do at least 1 wide. Try shutting your eyes during a pull up, i found it help with the MMC and take a lot of the work out of the arms

i don't row/dl anymore due to a low back injury so my "back" workout always pull ups/muscle ups and some aux lat pull downs(rotating grip) or straight arm pull downs(rotating grip)

My workout week:

Day 1 Upper
5x5 incline/flat bb/db bench
5x5 wide grip/muscle up
5x5 front/lat raises superset
5x5 rear delt/lat pulldown superset

Day 2 Lower
5x5 Leg Xtend
5x5 Leg Curl
5x5 Leg Press
5x5 Kickbacks
5x5 Calf Raises

Day 3 Core
2 rounds of
25 Hanging Leg Raises/Pikes
25 Back Xtend
25 Wipers
25 Reverse Crunch
60 sec Plank

10-20 breathes between sets, weights increase if I can do all 5x5

1/18/2012 11:37:53 AM

haven't really been doing much other work besides starting strength, and dips/chins/fuckarounditis with wide grip pull ups..

just some shrugs, pendlay rows, bent over barbell rows, and starting to mess around with stuff from this article:

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/dispelling_the_glute_myth (jim rome got jacked )

as i feel as if glutes are holding me back some on squatting the way i want to.

butt and back are known weak spots.

i'll try and work in some wide pulldowns. seems pretty obvious and i guess i've been neglecting it.

1/18/2012 3:15:56 PM

want to make your glutes and hams stronger but work out at "big box" gym?

do these, as most gyms in this area don't have the piece of gear that facilitates it.

NOTE: THIS IS NOT ME

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WvYnJCPb-M&feature=related

1/18/2012 3:23:24 PM

Jesus, those are nuts looking.

1/18/2012 3:27:45 PM

wow

1/18/2012 3:30:07 PM

I've been growing a butt thanks to all the squatting I've been doing as part of Starting Strength. I've never had a butt before, so this is kind of terrifying. It looks like I'm smuggling ostrich eggs.

1/18/2012 3:34:37 PM

lol! That's one of my major goals, to grow a butt. I've been told I have white girl butt syndrome so I'm trying to fix that

1/18/2012 3:37:44 PM

bald guy 'mirin

GHRs are in fact, awesome and deceivingly difficult

you can do them on a place where you can use your hands to bounce/rebound off the floor/bench to get some assistance until you can do full body weight.


[Edited on January 18, 2012 at 3:39 PM. Reason : they hard]

1/18/2012 3:38:16 PM

i can almost guarantee a severe cramp/muscle spasm if i attempt that

1/18/2012 4:13:35 PM

my meals today...am i doing this right?

wake up early, go to gym first thing
come back

protein shake

breakfast
Egg Beaters w/turkey and a little cheese, Bagel w/fat free cream cheese, Toast w/light butter and jam

lunch
7oz sirloin steak
3/4c. wild rice
1c. steamed broccoli

snack
fiber one bar

dinner
7oz sirloin
3/4c wild rice
1c. steamed broccoli

snack
bowl kashi go lean cereal w/skim milk

gonna have another snack around 10, PB&J



bad/good/good enough?

i'm trying to shovel in ~2600-3000 cals/day through the end of winter in a strength training program

today was about 70g fat, 250g carbs, 180g protein

[Edited on January 18, 2012 at 7:47 PM. Reason : mmm]

1/18/2012 7:46:27 PM

Seems a little high in carbs
But really so long as you're getting your protein I wouldn't worry too much about it while strength training. You can always cut weight afterwards. Just depends on your personal preferences.

[Edited on January 19, 2012 at 1:37 AM. Reason : ]

1/19/2012 1:34:48 AM

i think you would be okay with carbs as long as you're eating whole grain/whole wheat.

by the way i don't know how you can eat a bagel and then have toast.

also watch your sugar intake. i pay more attention to the amount of sugar in products rather than carbs, fat, calories and i found more success that way. check your cereal and also milk (skim milk has 13g of sugar per 1 cup serving). if your cereal has 12-13g of sugar and then your milk has 13g of sugar, that's 26g of sugar you're consuming late at night.

[Edited on January 19, 2012 at 8:04 AM. Reason : sugar will get ya]

1/19/2012 8:02:58 AM

If you are trying to go low carb, it doesn't matter what source carbs are from. It's total carbs at the end of the day that you need to track.

The GI index has generally been found to be useless, unless you have a metabolic disorder like diabetes.

1/19/2012 8:29:30 AM

^you are kidding right?

1/19/2012 8:36:09 AM

i feel like i read his diet in a muscle mag for skinny dudes, before.

if you REALLY wanna beef up, eat something along the lines of 4000 calories a day. do your cardio in the morning to throw yourself into deficit at the beginning of the day and do your strength training in the late afternoon when you are your strongest (cuz that's when you had to hunt for dinner, son).

if you are trying to get only bigger and stronger, you don't have to worry about weight gain. but if you don't want your gut to get any bigger, try an hour of low intensity cardio in the morning. i try to shoot for 20 cal/min for an hour on the treadmill when i'm trying to stay within a certain weight class.

you can't drink enough milk or eat enough eggs. you also can't get enough whey protein. kidney disease and protein is not really definitively connected [yet], but i would drink at least 1/2 an ounce of water for every ounce of protein i consumed (which would be at least one [oz of protein] for every pound of body weight I wished to attain).

1/19/2012 8:40:47 AM

No, I'm not kidding. At all.

I've lost weight and become shredded eating almost only high glycemic carbs relative to total carbs (with adequate protein/fat).





[Edited on January 19, 2012 at 8:43 AM. Reason : words]

1/19/2012 8:42:09 AM

Here is some more info to back my claim...

Quote :

"The GI doesn’t truly indicate the insulin response in the first place, if it does it appears that low-GI foods may be generating a faster initial insulin response in the first place, and none of this seems to meaningfully impact on fuel utilization anyhow. Certainly any tiny differences in GI between brown and white rice are going to be utterly irrelevant for 99% of cases."

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/insulin-levels-and-fat-loss-qa.html

Quote :

"high-glycaemic index meals could contribute to the maintenance of excess weight in obese individuals and/or predispose obesity-prone subjects to weight gain. Several studies comparing the effects of meals with contrasting glycaemic carbohydrates for hours, days or weeks have failed to demonstrate any differential effect on fuel partitioning when either substrate oxidation or body composition measurements were performed. Apparently, the glycaemic index-induced serum insulin differences are not sufficient in magnitude and/or duration to modify fuel oxidation."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16629877?ordinalpos=3&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

1/19/2012 8:55:01 AM

Quote :

"I've lost weight and become shredded eating almost only high glycemic carbs relative to total carbs (with adequate protein/fat)."

I don't doubt you did, but that doesn't mean it's the best way to do it.

Most of the research i've read has to do with weight loss as well as diabetic concerns (which I did see you made a concession about after re-reading), but glycemic index has been shown in a lot of research to drastically effect how your body processes different types of food... it will be different for every person, yes, and there ARE studies that show the effects of GI are not fully understood, but that doesn't mean eating 30 grams of carbs from jolly ranchers is the same as eating 30 grams of carbs from whole grain sources.


Either way though, I think that we can agree at the end of the day if you are buring through calories with plenty of exercise you will be better off

[Edited on January 19, 2012 at 9:10 AM. Reason : ]

1/19/2012 9:07:59 AM

Yes, food selection does matter. But in a different way than most people think.

Why are vegetables and fruit better? They have micronutrients and high amounts of fiber, meaning they are less calorie dense.

The idea the whole-grains are something magically better is, IMO, bull shit. Most whole grain foods don't, compared to fruits/veges, have much micronutrients at all. I will concede that they usually taste bad and are harder to chew so we end up eating less overall.

From my learning and research, metabolic/insulin derangement is the effect of being sedentary and have terrible body composition. Not from eating a specific food type. Now, food types do matter in that it's easier to overeat on calories with cake, as compared to steak. However, if a person is lean and active, eating cake isn't nearly negative as people think it is.

1/19/2012 9:12:44 AM

The bagel and toast thing was cause I was really hungry after my workout. Major carb craving

1/19/2012 9:45:13 AM

Cass is worrying me about the sugar thing. My dad had diabetes. I check my glucose levels about once a month just for kicks, it usually runs between 82-95 fasting mornings

1/19/2012 9:49:02 AM

[Edited on January 19, 2012 at 10:06 AM. Reason : oh nevermind]

1/19/2012 9:52:18 AM

also how is 20cals/min 'low intensity cardio'????

Id have to be running 8min miles uphill to get that rate

1/19/2012 10:07:46 AM

LOL 20calories/min? To get to that level you've got to be sprinting (aka 100% max effort running).

Not feasible/sustainable for anything other very brief HIIT.

[Edited on January 19, 2012 at 10:32 AM. Reason : ;]

1/19/2012 10:31:26 AM

Glad I'm not the only one that saw that and said "wtf??"

[Edited on January 19, 2012 at 10:36 AM. Reason : .]

1/19/2012 10:36:16 AM

imo low intensity cardio is like 8-10cals/min i.e. brisk walk or slow jogging or elliptical

1/19/2012 10:49:53 AM

i'd consider low intensity to be in the 5-10/minute range

1/19/2012 12:48:21 PM

Quote :

"protein shake breakfast Egg Beaters w/turkey and a little cheese, Bagel w/fat free cream cheese, Toast w/light butter and jam lunch 7oz sirloin steak 3/4c. wild rice 1c. steamed broccoli snack fiber one bar dinner 7oz sirloin 3/4c wild rice 1c. steamed broccoli snack bowl kashi go lean cereal w/skim milk gonna have another snack around 10, PB&J bad/good/good enough? i'm trying to shovel in ~2600-3000 cals/day through the end of winter in a strength training program today was about 70g fat, 250g carbs, 180g protein "

you missed your calorie mark by a lot, and I think you're underestimating your carbs and overestimating your protein. If you're eating because you're hungry after a workout, stuff yourself with protein; it's more filling, takes longer to digest, takes more energy to digest, and won't spike your insulin and cause you to be hungry again in 2 hours.

I'd replace the fiber one bar with a can of tuna or something else. Those things are just glorified candy bars with almost no nutritional value. If you want fiber, drink metamucil or take fiber supplements, or better yet eat celery with that can of tuna.

regarding the glycemic index, the reason high glycemic index foods should be avoided is because they can increase cravings and encourage you to overeat. Fast digesting sugars can also really screw up metabolic signaling; being on a caloric deficit while eating a high sugar diet is going to force your body into starvation mode a whole lot faster than the same caloric intake from broccoli and sweet potatoes.

1/19/2012 12:50:56 PM

Quote :

"LOL 20calories/min? To get to that level you've got to be sprinting (aka 100% max effort running). Not feasible/sustainable for anything other very brief HIIT. "

most ellipticals tell me I'm burning between 18-20 calories a minute during low intensity cardio, holding a steady heart rate of 130bpm. I also weigh ~265, so that might have something to do with it.

1/19/2012 12:54:23 PM

Yeah, the calories burned really depends on your weight and muscle mass.

If I run for 30 minutes at 7.5 miles per hour, I burn approximately 310 calories. My brother, on the other hand, would burn more than 700.

So I know that I have to be more careful about calories consumed, since it's a lot harder for me to burn them, given my size.

1/19/2012 1:05:52 PM

are the 'calories burned' counters on things like ellipticals and treadmills accurate at all??

1/19/2012 1:11:56 PM

Kind of ... but you shouldn't rely on them. Something the callibration on the machine is off.

1/19/2012 1:17:48 PM

Quote :

"you missed your calorie mark by a lot, and I think you're underestimating your carbs and overestimating your protein."

i'm using the calorie counter app on my phone, so it tells me what im taking in plus fat, carbs, and protein


I failed to mention, though, that my breakfast bagel was actually a mini-bagel (130 cals) not a regular sized one, and the toast was the 40 calorie light wheat toast. Also I ate 1/2 serving kashi go lean cereal, not a full serving. I think that might balance out your thoughts with the carb overestimation.


but then later that night i ate a box of milk duds at the movie theater, so i guess i evened it out


not sure why you think my protein estimate it low though

3 egg beaters = 20g
7oz steak = 40g (x2) = 80g
Protein Shake = 40g
kashi+milk = 10g

plus another 30g or so protein from other things i ate during the day

[Edited on January 19, 2012 at 1:52 PM. Reason : meat]

1/19/2012 1:48:45 PM

Quote :

"kashi go lean cereal"

I hope it's not Kashi Go Lean Crunch, I can't read this or see commercials for kashi go lean cereal without wincing at the flashback of memories of what that cereal did to me and my insides


http://www.pleasegodno.com/archives/20-1-cup-Kashi-GoLEAN-Crunch-+-12-cup-milk-Endless-stomach-churning-gas..html

Quote :

"Just like all the rest, I finally googled Kashi + Gas today and found this site. Thank god! I thought I was going crazy. Everyday, starting around 2pm I looked and felt pregnant. I literally had a watermelon size abdomen full of gas. Painful gas. I've had explosive farts that you could time, much like contractions. I am relieved...though not quite yet...to know that it's this stupid Kashi. For a while I thought I was lactose intolerant. Sheesh. Who would've known. Three boxes going in the trash now."

seriously, I couldn't figure out for the longest time what was wrong with me and my mysterious bloating and gas (last beachbody thread)

1/19/2012 1:57:41 PM

dharney i would try to add in some more fruits and veggies. it looks like you're only taking in 2 servings of fruits/veggies a day. you should be aiming more for about 5 a day. it'll fill you up and give you fiber so you wouldn't have to worry so much about taking in bread/carbs. maybe in your eggs add in some chopped mixed veggies (you can chop up a ton on a Sunday and then just throw in handfuls during the week so you don't have to chop everyday) and/or with the bagel, add in a tomato and onion or green peppers and switch out the cream cheese to hummus.

1/19/2012 2:03:56 PM

^^ HAHAHA wow so that explains it. I stopped eating that stuff and feel much better now

1/19/2012 2:18:04 PM

^lol yeah, I switched to eating soft boiled eggs in the morning and have been better ever since


also, since we're talking about protein and all

http://www.livestrong.com/article/262519-what-is-the-protein-content-of-one-egg/

Quote :

"According to the American Egg Board, America produces 75 billion eggs each year. Eggs are popular for their versatility and nutrient-rich content. Eggs are considered a complete protein because they provide all essential amino acids. One large egg provides a 150 lb. adult with 12 percent of his daily protein requirement. Protein Requirement The average adult should consume 0.8 g of protein per kilogram of body weight, daily. Protein is the building block for muscle tissue and cells in the body. Protein is comprised of amino acids that function by working together. A protein-deficient diet will cause your body to break down its own muscle tissue to obtain protein. Because muscle is important for strength and metabolism it should be protected by adequate protein intake. Amino Acids Nonessential amino acids are produced in the body and are good for diet, but not essential. Essential amino acids must be obtained from dietary sources. Protein sources are categorized as complete proteins that provide all essential amino acids and incomplete proteins that provide some essential amino acids. Each essential and nonessential amino acid must be present in order for protein to work in the body. Therefore, consuming complete proteins ensures that all requirements are met for protein utilization. Facts A large egg contains 6 g of protein, half of which is contained in the yolk. Eggs are packaged according to size so that a dozen jumbo eggs weigh at least 30 oz. while a dozen small eggs weigh at least 18 oz. Because protein content is dependent on egg size, a small egg contains 4.65 g of protein. Other Nutrients According to the American Egg Board, eggs also contain choline, folate, iron and zinc. Eggs are low in calories and high in nutrients. One large egg contains 102 calories and 6 percent of daily vitamin A requirements. You can reduce fat and cholesterol intake by consuming egg whites without the yolk. One oz. of egg whites contains 3 g of protein. Considerations The USDA recommends not leaving eggs out of the refrigerator for more than two hours. Hard-boiled eggs spoil faster than raw eggs, should be refrigerated within two hours of cooking and will spoil after one week. Safe egg handling will ensure that proper nutrients are ingested without risk. "

1/19/2012 2:19:32 PM

Quote :

"i'm using the calorie counter app on my phone, so it tells me what im taking in plus fat, carbs, and protein "

the app should have confirmed that you took in under 2,400 calories when you were shooting for about 500 more than that. If it didn't, delete that app and find one that works.

1/19/2012 2:19:56 PM

Treadmill at 15 degree incline @ 3.5 mph is low intensity.

It's about the calories to me. Not the sprinting or the work rate.

1/19/2012 3:49:29 PM

Read and learn why most estimates of kcal expenditure are off.

Quote :

"CONCLUSION: These results suggest that normal weight individuals overestimate EE (energy expenditure) during exercise by 3-4 folds. Further, when asked to precisely compensate for exercise EE with food intake, the resulting energy intake is still 2 to 3 folds greater than the measured EE of exercise."

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/research-review/normal-weight-men-and-women-overestimate-energy-expenditure-research-review.html



Eleusis - FYI protein stimulates insulin just about as much as carbs do.

Quote :

"MYTH: Carbohydrate Is Singularly Responsible for Driving Insulin FACT: Protein Is a Potent Stimulator of Insulin Too This is probably the biggest misconception that is out there. Carbohydrates get a bad rap because of their effect on insulin, but protein stimulates insulin secretion as well. In fact, it can be just as potent of a stimulus for insulin as carbohydrate. One recent study compared the effects of two different meals on insulin. One meal contained 21 grams of protein and 125 grams of carbohydrate. The other meal contained 75 grams of protein and 75 grams of carbohydrate. Both meals contained 675 calories. Here is a chart of the insulin response:"

http://weightology.net/weightologyweekly/?page_id=319

[Edited on January 19, 2012 at 4:02 PM. Reason : info]

1/19/2012 4:00:35 PM

^hey man, all i know is that when i'm trying to cut weight, i do what the pros do [but not as well].

you're a trainer, and you know everybody is different. what is high intensity to some fat body at planet fitness is not even a sweat breaker for a world class athlete.

1/19/2012 4:34:20 PM

^^ Interesting.

Does source of protein matter is my question.

1/19/2012 4:38:40 PM

Thanks cass. I actually am pretty good about eating bananas and clementines every day, I just happened to have run out yesterday. Today should be a little bt cleaner, I'll post my diet tonight and compare to yesterday

1/19/2012 4:39:06 PM

^^^^in that same link, look at the blood sugar spike for the high carb/low protein vs the low carb/high protein. it is significantly higher with the high carbs.

I know you are a personal trainer and all, but I think i'll believe my nutritionist in this case.


[Edited on January 19, 2012 at 4:45 PM. Reason : ]

1/19/2012 4:44:21 PM

Level of intensity is gauged by a couple things. Heart rate, RPE, and how close you are working to your max.


^I made no claim about protein elevating blood glucose. Of course it wouldn't be as high as sugar.

The hunger reducing effects are from a response in the liver. I just wanted to educate y'all that insulin is not the evil hormone everyone makes it out ot be.



[Edited on January 19, 2012 at 4:55 PM. Reason : ;]

1/19/2012 4:52:49 PM

Maximus, the pro's also generally use exogenous hormones and thermogenic stacks. Anything you do works with that and a basic calorie deficit.

1/19/2012 5:00:48 PM

the study you cited referred to a meal with 75 grams of carbs as "low-carb", even though it's far from it. Also, it makes no mention of the glucagon release caused by protein intake, which has the opposite effect of insulin and keeps the insulin in check.

protein doesn't elevate blood glucose when consumed by itself. Consuming a large amount of whey protein by itself will actually lower blood glucose levels.

1/19/2012 5:01:42 PM

75 carbs/day is real low for me...

1/19/2012 5:06:27 PM