Quote :

"It's been shown that actual exposure to other races in the workplace or school lead to marked decreases in those prejudices."

I'm not sure about the accuracy of this statement. Black stereotypes play out terribly in urban area schools (for example).

3/27/2012 12:30:11 PM

Quote :

"That statement is markedely different from saying stereotypes in this case have any validity or basis in fact, sceience, or even common sense."

so are you saying that stereotypes have no validity or is it just in this case?

3/27/2012 12:31:26 PM

I ...can't do this with you sparky

3/27/2012 12:41:44 PM

Quote :

"I'm not sure about the accuracy of this statement."

It's true on a very basic, almost reptile-brain level: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2705986/

That's just for face recognition, there's other studies that take a look at workplaces and schools in particular and self-reported prejudice.

Quote :

"Black stereotypes play out terribly in urban area schools (for example)."

Have you been to urban schools, or do you see them on the tv, news, and in movies? Just asking because, if you've never actually been to one, there's an extremely high chance your perception of them has been warped by the media.


[Edited on March 27, 2012 at 1:09 PM. Reason : .]

3/27/2012 12:45:25 PM

Yeah, [citation needed].

3/27/2012 1:04:22 PM

^^^

i'm not trying to be a dick here. the reason i ask is simply because i feel that there are situations where stereotypes and prejudices can in fact be valid and sometimes even life saving.

3/27/2012 1:17:12 PM

And how do you think those situations stack up to the times when those prejudices are life-ruining or life-ending?

3/27/2012 1:36:54 PM

i'm not sure. i would say that they would be more valid in a situation where you feel threatened or that your life is in danger. in the case of simply being mean or trying to keep some one down then that would definitely be wrong.

3/27/2012 1:39:01 PM

What if, due to your prejudice, your perceive a situation as being more life-threatening than it actually is, and as a result murder a teenage black boy in cold blood, then benefit from those stereotypes by not getting arrested?

3/27/2012 1:42:00 PM

Quote :

"your perceive a situation as being...life-threatening"

Quote :

"and as a result murder a teenage black boy in cold blood"

melodramatic much?

3/27/2012 1:47:30 PM

Okay, you perceive a situation as life-threatening, and as a result murder a black boy in hot blood. Blood that wouldn't be so hot if you weren't absolutely terrified of black people thanks to stereotypes that greatly exaggerate reality.

3/27/2012 1:48:58 PM

Quote :

"What if, due to your prejudice, your perceive a situation as being more life-threatening than it actually is, and as a result murder a teenage black boy in cold blood, then benefit from those stereotypes by not getting arrested?"

that would obviously be wrong, but in this case we don't know that to be true. from witness testimony it doesn't fit the scenario of murdering some one in cold blood. Zimmerman may well have felt his life was in danger while his head was being bashed on the concrete.

3/27/2012 1:55:08 PM

sparky you can't argue logic in this thread

logic went out the fucking window the moment the 'core logic' of this topic became: "why do white people keep teaching their kids that black people are generally more dangerous than other races."

as if such a training program was setup in a grade school.

despite the raw mathematics and psychological effects of it all, there can be no logic in this thread with that as the base of all argument.

3/27/2012 2:12:09 PM

ah....logic...what was i thinking? i guess we should just appeal to the emotional reaction to this instead.

3/27/2012 2:13:47 PM

no, youre supposed to wonder why this robotic utopia they hold sacred is unobtainable by mortal man.

3/27/2012 2:26:43 PM

i have an idea: let's all share our emotional guilt at how we were all trained by our parents to hate on black people because of how they look and build a society that is essentially unequal to 'make up for our sins'..... oh wait thats right.. that stupid shit died 50-100 years ago more than a generation before most of us were born. in fact it existed 100 fold worse in your very own ancient societies. don't try to turn this into 'but this time its different and you can FEEL the pain' bullshit party.

the only people left to remind the grown ups of society are you jealous i-suck-at-life types that want to feel like your special by trying to make everything 'equal'...


evolution itself... is slowly ending this nonsensical logic though.


[Edited on March 27, 2012 at 2:33 PM. Reason : ,]

3/27/2012 2:29:24 PM

Uh, no.

Institutionalized racism still exists to a very large degree.

3/27/2012 2:33:47 PM

Yep it's called 'the New Black Panther Party' with an actual bounty on zimmermans head. They are openly doing so with nobody to stand up to them because nobody wants to wake up to their dead families brains spilt on the floor because you wanted to provide basic protection to the bill of rights, and let this little thing called 'due process' take its course


NO BUT NO WE HAVE TO STRING HIM UP NOW!! B/C WE MAD!

[Edited on March 27, 2012 at 2:36 PM. Reason : ,]

3/27/2012 2:35:27 PM

No, that's not what I'm talking about.

3/27/2012 2:36:21 PM

^^they were arrested for those threats, btw.

lol.

[Edited on March 27, 2012 at 2:36 PM. Reason : -]

3/27/2012 2:36:24 PM

the whole fucking racist problem is that trayvon is 'one of theirs' (black) and not just an innocent child of humanity as he is and should be treated.


nobody can admit that zimmerman would have shot him had he not had a fucking skin color at all. the guy was a paranoid lunatic hell bent on stopping whoever was committing all the burglaries at this place... and trayvon just happened to be the first 'suspect' in this lunatics mind.

[Edited on March 27, 2012 at 2:40 PM. Reason : -]

3/27/2012 2:38:00 PM

1. douche

2. 50 cent the rapper

3. douche

4. douche

5. douche

6. guns


^Even if that's true Zimmerman is still a lunatic, like you said, that should be arrested.

[Edited on March 27, 2012 at 4:04 PM. Reason : .]

3/27/2012 4:02:28 PM

Quote :

"nobody can admit that zimmerman would have shot him had he not had a fucking skin color at all. the guy was a paranoid lunatic hell bent on stopping whoever was committing all the burglaries at this place... and trayvon just happened to be the first 'suspect' in this lunatics mind."

Didn't he call the police like 50 times in the past year with at least some of the calls leading to arrests? Not very likely that Trayvon was the "first suspect" he encountered. How many of the previous calls were in regards to people of color and how many of them did he shoot again?

[Edited on March 27, 2012 at 4:17 PM. Reason : s]

3/27/2012 4:15:34 PM

Quote :

" Zimmerman said that Trayvon had punched him and then repeatedly slammed his head into the sidewalk in the moments leading up to the shooting.... In the 911 calls that have been released, Mr. Zimmerman is heard deciding, against a dispatcher’s advice, to follow Trayvon, whom he deemed "up to no good." In Mr. Zimmerman’s account to the police, he returned to his S.U.V. after he was unable to find him. Trayvon then approached Mr. Zimmerman from behind and they exchanged words. Then, Mr. Zimmerman said, Trayvon hit him hard enough that he fell to the ground — which would explain what Mr. Zimmerman’s lawyer, Craig Sonner, has said was a broken nose — and began slamming his head into the sidewalk."

http://reason.com/blog/2012/03/27/new-details-about-george-zimmermans-acco

3/27/2012 4:22:35 PM

I like how this crap is top of the headlines with 6 bullets on CNN.com

3/27/2012 4:56:27 PM

^^

"The man who wants to avoid murder charges, and who is conveniently the only witness to the entire incident, offered an account that absolved him of all wrongdoing."

[Edited on March 27, 2012 at 5:00 PM. Reason : ]

3/27/2012 5:00:15 PM

dead men tell no tales

3/27/2012 5:26:28 PM

Kill everyone who kills anyone.
That way no murderers get away.
Except the US Government.

3/27/2012 5:31:03 PM

Quote :

"1. douche"

that first douche is a durham douche, for what it's worth

3/27/2012 7:08:30 PM

I'd say some guy slamming your head into the pavement constitutes deadly force.

If you disagree, let me slam your head into the pavement as a demonstration.

[Edited on March 27, 2012 at 7:35 PM. Reason : c]

3/27/2012 7:22:55 PM

Lead investigator apparently wanted manslaughter charges because he didn't believe Zimmerman.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-martin-dogged-disciplinary-problems-school/t/story?id=16011674

3/27/2012 7:34:47 PM

Quote :

"I'd say some guy slamming your head into the pavement constitutes deadly force. If you disagree, let me slam your head into the pavement as a demonstration."

Let me get 60+ lbs. up on you and we'll try that demonstration. Was Trayvon a Brazilian Jujitsu master?

[Edited on March 27, 2012 at 7:47 PM. Reason : Weight unclear]

3/27/2012 7:43:09 PM

Quote :

""The man who wants to avoid murder charges, and who is conveniently the only witness to the entire incident, offered an account that absolved him of all wrongdoing.""

And on the flip side, the GF of the dead teenager, upset that someone has killed her BF, is going to give an account that makes the killer seem more guilty of murder than self defense.

See how it can go both ways?

3/27/2012 8:40:31 PM

No, but he was a highschool football player.

Apparently Zimmerman's 60 lb fat advantage didn't help him in a fight. Shocking.

Why bother arguing this point, anyway? Zimmerman was all busted up afterwards. A witness saw him on the ground, screaming for help, with Martin on top. He had a broken nose and cuts to the back of his head. There was blood on the pavement where his head was getting slammed.

What do you need in order to believe that Zimmerman was getting fucked up?

3/27/2012 8:42:45 PM

Quote :

"There was blood on the pavement where his head was getting slammed."

Source?

3/27/2012 8:44:17 PM

If you're carrying a gun and get into a scuffle on the ground, it's a fight to the death. Letting your opponent grab the gun is out of the question. Once in that position I would have fired too.

Not a good position to be in.

Zimmerman's a dead man walking, anyway, in prison or out.

[Edited on March 27, 2012 at 8:54 PM. Reason : .]

3/27/2012 8:46:35 PM

It's pretty safe to say at this point that there is going to be drugs in Trayvons system. I wonder how much that is going to affect this entire thing.

3/27/2012 8:53:54 PM

Now that the fate of the entire police department and reputation of the state of florida hinges on it, there will DEFINITELY be some drugs in Trayvon's system. Probably all of them. There might even be some drugs in his blood that don't have street names yet.

3/27/2012 8:57:47 PM

Quote :

"No, but he was a highschool football player. "

I think he only played for the optimist club a few years ago. I don't think he ever played for the high school.

^ I wouldn't be surprised if he was smoking pot on the way back from the store. I'm not sure if this would affect the case however.

[Edited on March 27, 2012 at 9:04 PM. Reason : ]

3/27/2012 9:02:34 PM

Quote :

"See how it can go both ways?"

except you've NEVER allowed it to "go both ways." You've assumed from day 1 that everything Zimmerman did was 100% reasonable and that he has always been telling the truth, despite the fact that his story doesn't make sense, especially when he's changed it. There are OTHER witnesses who dispute his claims, yet they are just liars, as far as you concerned.

Then you seem all too willing to assume Trayvon was a thug and a criminal, as you've shown in the Chit Chat thread. You've hypothesized that he was about to go commit a crime or was running because he had just committed a crime. You've suggested he was on the way to do a drug deal. You've suggested that he was high at the time. You've been completely willing to say that Trayvon is a horrible horrible thug (wonder why...), yet Zimmerman is a perfect angel.

3/27/2012 9:08:16 PM

lol I've been showing how it CAN go both ways.

You are too blinded by your stupidity to think that Zimmermans claims might actually be true.

And all these "witnesses" only witnessed after the gunshot, except for the one that actually saw Trayvon on top of ZImmerman.

And you said that Zimmermans account could be made up, so I showed how so could the GFs.

lol


Never said Zimmerman is an angel or anything, but I am showing how he could be totally justified and legally allowed to do what he did, and as of now, there is basically nothing to show that his version of events isn't what happened. And so far, the justice system agrees.

So I have that, and you only have your opinion.

As of now, you are wrong.

3/27/2012 9:20:42 PM

I've even shown ways in how it could be totally Zimmermans fault and Trayvon was killed in cold blood.

But even saying that, thats not what the evidence is showing.

3/27/2012 9:22:01 PM

skittles and tea

zimmerman said he looked like "he was on drugs" or something...possibly all squinty-eyed?

3/27/2012 10:23:48 PM

tacolu: how do you respond to the lead investigator wanting a manslaughter charge?

do you feel that you understand the events better than him?

3/27/2012 10:46:05 PM

stories like those, as well as additional details, are going to keep coming out for weeks.

why can't people just agree to wait for more concise details before judging either way?

all the haters had better hope to tell he's totally guilty. he's a prisoner in his own home.

3/27/2012 10:57:52 PM

It's sounding like the details were there on the night of the murder.

The police just didn't want to deal with the investigation, or didn't want to charge, or who knows.

3/27/2012 10:58:49 PM

Quote :

"tacolu: how do you respond to the lead investigator wanting a manslaughter charge? do you feel that you understand the events better than him?"

Apparently so, and the state of Florida agrees.

3/28/2012 2:24:19 AM

We are all college educated people, so while we might argue, we can still have a somewhat sane discussion.

Talking about this on FB is just one big cluster fuck of fail.

Now that facts are coming out that show that Trayvon, while no thug or serious criminal, is not the angel that he was first reported to be, people are saying that the cops are just making stuff up to slander his character to make him look bad.

I mean, saying that he was suspended for having weed at school is just a fact at this point.

And they fail to realize that Zimmermans character and past actions have been repeatedly brought up to attempt to show what kind of person he might be.

When the issue of the weed was mentioned in an argument on someones page on FB, I suggested based on what we know now, its not out of the real of possibilities that Trayvon might have been high the night of the incident. Not that he was, but its possible.

To which the guy responded that the toxicology report had already been released and there were NO DRUGS IN HIS SYSTEM. To which I said that was news to me and for him to please provide a credible link reporting this, and not some off the wall website, since I searched and couldn't find any and also new by discussing on here and reasing about this case in depth, that it hadn't been released yet and that was one of the main problems in this case is that people keep hearing all this random stuff on these off the wall sites, or something their friend or grandma told them and they think its true. Hell, some black people I've talked to about this don't even know that a fight of any kind occured.

He deleted me right after.

[Edited on March 28, 2012 at 2:31 AM. Reason : v]

3/28/2012 2:29:49 AM

Quote :

"And they fail to realize that Zimmermans character and past actions have been repeatedly brought up to attempt to show what kind of person he might be."

One of the two people involved killed the other. Exactly how relevant is the moral character of the victim?

3/28/2012 8:45:41 AM

Quote :

"One of the two people involved killed the other. Exactly how relevant is the moral character of the victim?"

How relevant is the moral character of the accused?

3/28/2012 9:37:10 AM