Quote :

"If only the racist government stopped forcing poor people to have children at age 15."

LAWLZ
Truth

Though I do partly blame nutjobs right-wing Christian reactionaries who force abstinence only education, defund or attempt place road barriers to publicly funded birth control. If only they would see the light that by acknowledging that teens are going to have sex especially poor ones that correlate to poor parenting then they could not only reduce abortions but also welfare receps.

7/28/2015 10:51:10 PM

9! 9 pages of white guilt ah ah ah!

But for serious, what's the point of this whole White Privilege thing hmm? Is it intended to penetrate the consciousness of white America and influence change? Because if that's the goal, it's sure going about it in a really tactless way. You don't win hearts and minds by opening with what basically boils down to "You were born into a life of being a shitty, entitled person and you should feel bad about that because we think you should."

It seems less like a vehicle to improve the understanding of the American minority experience, and more like a public way to shame white people for being born white in America.

That's a bold strategy Cotton, let's see if it pays off.

7/29/2015 11:56:28 AM

^ the term "white privilege" was already created to deal with peoples' delicate sensibilities, it is the "gentler" term compared to describing the situation as "racism" or even "systemic racism," people are increasingly using the term "systemic bias", rjrumfel even suggested "majority privilege".

It seems pretty clear based on JCE and HUR's thinking that they don't care what the term is, they won't ever accept that systemic racism continues to be the prevailing factor in the racial disparities that exist in all studies on the issue.

7/29/2015 1:49:39 PM

Would it be possible for you to break down for us what you believe are the major factors that perpetuate racial disparity today in America? Like 75% systemic racism, 10% bad life choices, 15% poor education? Or do you believe it all just boils down to 100% systemic racism and there are no other factors?

7/29/2015 2:02:54 PM

There are many factors obviously, but systemic racism is clearly the plurality or majority factor. I don't see how anyone can look at the wealth stats alone and see anything differently. Wealth doesn't come from nowhere, and people in general aren't quick to "share" their wealth, let alone when you're trying to figure this out against a backdrop of a history of slavery and castes. But combine this is everything else we know and you're not going to see things shifting too drastically without a systemic change.

Any exceptional individual will always find a way, but politics aren't about the exceptional people, it's about the average person, and it seems like HUR et. al. expect the majority of the black community to be above average, while the expectations of everyone else are less, which is basically what systemic racism is.

7/29/2015 2:15:35 PM

oh neat

Sayer is an idiot too

7/29/2015 3:15:22 PM

Read this:
https://thsppl.com/i-racist-538512462265

7/29/2015 3:46:33 PM

Quote :

"You don't win hearts and minds by opening with what basically boils down to "You were born into a life of being a shitty, entitled person and you should feel bad about that because we think you should.""

Well it's certainly taken hold with college grads and students.

It'll be funny to revisit this in another 20 year or so, when today's Mexicans have completely lapped blacks in socioeconomic standing. White people's overbearing racism against non-whites sure seems to have little effect on Asians, Indians (dot ), and as we'll see, Mexicans.

7/29/2015 4:15:56 PM

yeah, remember when there were millions of Mexican slaves that were taken from Mexico and forced to work on plantations in the south in the 1800s, and those Jose Cruz Laws that enforced segregation of Mexicans that were finally done away with in 1960s

7/29/2015 4:35:49 PM

Quote :

"You don't win hearts and minds by opening with what basically boils down to "You were born into a life of being a shitty, entitled person and you should feel bad about that because we think you should.""

the privilege conversation is not about making people feel bad. if you feel bad about your privilege then.... ok, but there are those who are able to acknowledge it, use care regarding what conversations they inject their unexperienced opinion into (e.g., a white person loudly explaining how a black person should act with a cop when they've never had to deal with a racist cop while black is not very chill), boost oppressed voices since people are sadly more likely to listen to said privileged person, etc. It essentially amounts to "think about the different inherent privileges or differences in our lives before you judge, talk shit about, or silence someone," not "YOU'RE SHITTY, FEEL SHITTY." Also, what you're doing is basically saying "hey minorities, I don't like your tone," which is pretty fucking patronizing and skirts any real conversation.

[Edited on July 29, 2015 at 5:34 PM. Reason : .]

7/29/2015 5:33:27 PM

Institutional racism is "any system of inequality based on race"... I think overtime the inequality became based primarily on wealth rather than skin color.

Inequality based on wealth is just part of capitalism... but when racism caused the initial disparity of wealth, is it still technically institutional racism? It is tough to draw a line between what is due to racial bias, or just wealthy vs non wealthy.

Acknowledging the racist history of America and how it accounts for a wealth disparity today is important, but using racism as a scapegoat for everything, while ignoring other problems holding minorities back present day, is detrimental to everyone. Even more detrimental, is when liberals throw around the term "racist" at anything that disagrees with them, because it prevents a real discussion from taking place.

If you want to help minorities present day, you have to address fatherless families, high school graduation rates, crime, and "hood culture", because, present day, those factors are doing way more harm to the poor blacks than a "racist" society. Funny thing is, bring up these factors to have a conversation about how to actually help minorities recover and you get labeled a racist for not blindly joining in the liberal blame game.

Why consider helping minorities with measurable, tangible factors that *GASP!* directly correlate with wealth, when instead, you could share the latest white-guilt article from HuffingtonPost and pat yourself on the back because you want to make yourself feel better.

7/29/2015 5:41:45 PM

Quote :

"yeah, remember when there were millions of Mexican slaves that were taken from Mexico and forced to work on plantations in the south in the 1800s, and those Jose Cruz Laws that enforced segregation of Mexicans that were finally done away with in 1960s"

Oh boy, the "but hundreds of years ago..." argument. That shit has nothing to do with today's toxic black culture and the self-limiting behavior they engage in.

Remember when we had Japanese people in internment camps back in WW2?

Mexicans are literally regarded as a horde of hostile invaders TODAY. And most of them barely speak the language and they're still able to climb the ladder. Stop making excuses.

7/29/2015 6:32:39 PM

really not that difficult to read up on the subject and learn

hell, there have been plenty links posted in this thread that could assist you on your journey

7/29/2015 6:37:07 PM

Quote :

"you have to address fatherless families, high school graduation rates, crime, and "hood culture", because, present day, those factors are doing way more harm to the poor blacks than a "racist" society."

IAmNotASociologist but I suspect those symptoms are not wholly removed from institutional racism like you seem to think. e.g. disproportionate incarceration rates for lesser crimes between black men and whites contributing to more fatherless families, known racist cops promoting and exacerbating hostile environments, loads of psych studies about subtle racism in attitudes of teachers and standardized tests, etc. I'm not throwing my hands up and saying the white man should burn in hell for all they've caused and there are no other factors. But these are some examples of pretty tangible and well-evidenced racism that could be easily looked into and addressed and would likely make things at least a bit better in some ways. This idea that racism is always charicaturishly evil like a segregated water fountain photo needs to stop.

[Edited on July 29, 2015 at 6:42 PM. Reason : .]

7/29/2015 6:40:03 PM

Quote :

"eally not that difficult to read up on the subject and learn hell, there have been plenty links posted in this thread that could assist you on your journey"

You're operating under the assumption that everything written on the subject by Ivy Tower academics is necessarily correct. See, it says right here that blacks have played no role whatsoever in their plight!

As long as that narrative continues to be repeated, no progress will be made.

7/29/2015 7:17:20 PM

you're operating under the assumption that all we're reading is Ivy Tower (sic. Ivy league? Ivory tower?) academics.

"millions of currently alive parents of black people literally did not have equal rights under the law, as in, they could ~legally~ be discriminated against in the job market, housing market, education system, etc. etc., when they were growing up. How could that possibly have ANY ripple effect on the lives of their children?? that was HUNDREDS of years ago!"

7/29/2015 9:02:55 PM

Quote :

"Also, what you're doing is basically saying "hey minorities, I don't like your tone," which is pretty fucking patronizing and skirts any real conversation."

It's patronizing to be told I have white privilege in the first place. Everyone in this world has some form of "privilege" associated with their race, gender, culture, socioeconomic status, etc. To have mine singled out and brought into the spotlight simply because I'm white is completely disingenuous to the whole idea of ending racism. If you think Tone doesn't matter when approaching a topic like racism, your messages are going to fall on a lot of deaf ears.

Quote :

"But combine this is everything else we know and you're not going to see things shifting too drastically without a systemic change."

Define drastic? If we waved a magic wand today and removed all systemic racism from America, a disproportionate number of black Americans would still live in poverty, and would for a few generations. It feels like through your discussions that you're subtly advocating some form of wealth redistribution ala communism to right all the past wrongs done to black people by this country, and that's not ever going to happen nor is it realistic. Nor would it fix other underlying symptoms perpetuating the cycle of poverty.

7/30/2015 8:07:16 AM

The Mexicans are doing better than blacks, huh? Hmm...ok.

7/30/2015 8:49:10 AM

White people will believe in unicorns and Santa Claus before they'll believe in their own privilege.

7/30/2015 9:05:47 AM

Quote :

"Oh boy, the "but hundreds of years ago..." argument."

Damn you suck at math bruh.

also:

Quote :

""millions of currently alive parents of black people literally did not have equal rights under the law, as in, they could ~legally~ be discriminated against in the job market, housing market, education system, etc. etc., when they were growing up. How could that possibly have ANY ripple effect on the lives of their children"

Quote :

"Remember when we had Japanese people in internment camps back in WW2?"

You've got to be joking with this weak shit.

7/30/2015 9:19:50 AM

Quote :

"Everyone in this world has some form of "privilege" associated with their race"

ok...so what's black privilege? rhythm? large penises?

7/30/2015 9:30:07 AM

^i heard they've got an extra bone in their leg.

Quote :

""Oh boy, the "but hundreds of years ago..." argument.""

The 1800s were not "hundreds of years ago", and the 1960s certainly weren't.

7/30/2015 11:46:20 AM

Quote :

"To have mine singled out and brought into the spotlight simply because I'm white is completely disingenuous to the whole idea of ending racism"

you're right

we, the white, are the true victims

7/30/2015 11:56:24 AM

Quote :

"If you want to help minorities present day, you have to address fatherless families, high school graduation rates, crime, and "hood culture", because, present day, those factors are doing way more harm to the poor blacks than a "racist" society. Funny thing is, bring up these factors to have a conversation about how to actually help minorities recover and you get labeled a racist for not blindly joining in the liberal blame game. "

Absolutely, blacks do need to look internally and be the change they want to see. I completely agree with that. But, at the same time, how can you make the distinction between oppressive history and systematic racism and the failings of blacks to build a strong society as the cause of these problems? I believe the root cause is the terrible history that blacks suffered. This led to a breakdown of black society (or perhaps there never was) from which they are still trying to recover.

While they are recovering internally they need assistance from society as a whole. It doesnt matter how much they change if they still are less likely to be hired, earn lower wages, and are more likely to be jailed for common offenses, etc. due to systematic racism and bias. That is something they cannot fix.

What you may not be seeing are the changes taking place in the black communities to address these issues, but what's still missing is the support from society as a whole. The ability of social media has allowed blacks to really have a voice which is why this has become such a mainstream topic. Trust me, blacks were always feeling like the government, police, and companies didnt care about them.



[Edited on July 30, 2015 at 2:25 PM. Reason : a]

7/30/2015 2:17:30 PM

Quote :

"What you may not be seeing are the changes taking place in the black communities to address these issues, but what's still missing is the support from society as a whole."

What do you mean by support from society?

7/30/2015 3:00:44 PM

First, for society to realize that racism is still a problem and understand why it is occurring and in what areas of society. Then for the government to create policies to counteract it (because not everyone will change without being forced). Finally to further increase the opportunities of poor minorities to improve their lot and give them the chance to climb out of the low income situation they are trapped in. Examples would be free healthcare, better education in low income neighborhoods, job training at a reduced rate/free, etc. Helping them break the cycle of being poor and uneducated is beneficial for everyone in the long run.

[Edited on July 30, 2015 at 3:45 PM. Reason : a]

7/30/2015 3:44:55 PM

Quote :

"The 1800s were not "hundreds of years ago""

Quote :

"Damn you suck at math bruh."

Depends which part of the century you're talking about doesn't it? 1815 was two hundred, or approximately hundreds of years ago. And they were slaves before the 1800s too. Not really sure what point you're making. 150 years, 200 years, it's all ancient history at this point.

Quote :

"You've got to be joking with this weak shit."

Elaborate? Is that not a form of institutional racism that somehow Japanese in this country overcame?

7/30/2015 4:26:48 PM

^ I think you need to read up on exactly what happened during the Japanese internment in WW2. To compare that to the plight of black slaves is completely stupid. Oh, and in 1988, the US government paid surviving Japanese American interns $20,000 as an apology. Are you suggesting that reparations to slaves are justified?

7/30/2015 4:33:01 PM

Quote :

"it's all ancient history at this point."

Agreed. The 1960's are totally ancient history.

ITT I also learned a few years of internment is the same as hundreds of years of slavery.

[Edited on July 30, 2015 at 4:40 PM. Reason : VV yup, in the very same post you selectively quoted from, which i responded to ]

7/30/2015 4:34:09 PM

Quote :

", job training at a reduced rate/free"

Where I live in the PAC now, more income individuals can get free training and classes at community college

7/30/2015 4:37:58 PM

Someone else brought up "1800s" bruh. "1960s" is a much more relevant point to argue.

(though I suspect it'll still be brought up in the year 2160)

Quote :

"ITT I also learned a few years of internment is the same as hundreds of years of slavery."

Fuck's sake dude, it at least points out that Japanese faced pretty nasty institutional racism during that time period and well before: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ozawa_v._United_States.

The thing that drives me nuts about these argument is in typical liberal fashion no one asks "how did these black people who succeeded, succeed?" but rather make all manner of excuses for the ones who don't.

[Edited on July 30, 2015 at 4:45 PM. Reason : ...]

7/30/2015 4:39:23 PM

Quote :

"more income individuals"

7/30/2015 4:39:48 PM

so...the Japanese internment camps were instituted by the ____ race of people in the US. I'll let you fill that one in.

Hint: Refer to the thread title

also, not all japanese or mexican people done made it, y'all. I can think of a few that are quite a few steps behind my black ass.

[Edited on July 30, 2015 at 5:02 PM. Reason : ]

7/30/2015 4:59:59 PM

It's an extremely stupid comparison...in fact, all of them are.

7/30/2015 5:15:36 PM

agreed

7/30/2015 5:17:37 PM

Quote :

"The thing that drives me nuts about these argument is in typical liberal fashion no one asks "how did these black people who succeeded, succeed?" but rather make all manner of excuses for the ones who don't."

what?

so you're under the assumption that an entire race operates under the same circumstances? not all black people are born poor just like all white people aren't born wealthy. due to multiple generations worth of a race not being allowed to operate on an even playing field, it's harder for said race to accumulate wealth to break the cycle.

you've been given plenty of evidence as to why it's harder for one group to make it than another.

7/30/2015 5:18:00 PM

Quote :

"Someone else brought up "1800s" bruh. "1960s" is a much more relevant point to argue."

bruh, you were responding to me. I mentioned slavery in the 1800s AND the Jim Crow segregation laws that didn't end until the 1960s, in the same sentence. Your response was "100s of years ago", even though you quoted my sentence about the 1960s.


[Edited on July 30, 2015 at 5:23 PM. Reason : ]

7/30/2015 5:22:02 PM

Quote :

"The thing that drives me nuts about these argument is in typical liberal fashion no one asks "how did these black people who succeeded, succeed?" but rather make all manner of excuses for the ones who don't. "

Obama/Oprah means racism is over. Classic. Bravo.

7/30/2015 6:49:02 PM

How do people make money!

How do plants grow!

How do birds fly!

7/30/2015 7:37:57 PM

Today I drove through Norlina, but made a wrong turn into a school yard in front of a cop. He turned and followed me all the way through town until I made it back to the main road. I was not pulled over and killed for being unarmed.

8/3/2015 6:42:27 PM

^LOL, dude, that shit is hilarious. When you roll up into the wrong space, and then you have to casually roll up out of it...it is weird. And, if it's after dark, there's some stuff...

But be cool. Everybody be cool. Nobody move. Just be cool, y'all.

8/3/2015 7:55:14 PM

^^how did you know the cop was following you? It takes all of 30 seconds to drive across Norlina in any direction, so he could have just needed to be on one of those 2 roads.

8/3/2015 9:23:27 PM

dude, it's b4c. don't ask questions. hell, don't bother reading his dumbshit posts. he is a moron.

8/3/2015 9:28:18 PM

^^by driving straight he would have made it to the main road in about 15 seconds. He could have turned right when I turned left and then left when I turned right. He was totally following me.

[Edited on August 4, 2015 at 9:57 AM. Reason : .]

8/4/2015 9:56:51 AM

^sounds legit.

8/4/2015 11:59:26 AM

Quote :

"First, for society to realize that racism is still a problem and understand why it is occurring and in what areas of society. "

This is such a vague statement... I think specific examples of racism in specific institutions (i.e. Ferguson) can be measured and corrected, but this "societal realization" is just vague liberal dribble.

I think hood culture realizing black people can escape poverty through school/structured families rather than rap/sports would do wonders, if we are talking about "realization".

Quote :

"Then for the government to create policies to counteract it (because not everyone will change without being forced). "

I think there are already several policies in place, but I agree it is a work in progress.

Quote :

"Helping them break the cycle of being poor and uneducated is beneficial for everyone in the long run."

Pretty sure everyone agrees with this (I hope). Just because people disagree with white guilt buzzfeed articles doesn't mean they hate black people.

8/4/2015 10:41:46 PM

Quote :

"I think hood culture realizing black people can escape poverty through school/structured families rather than rap/sports would do wonders"

My buddy is a principal but taught high school English for 10 years. He said that for many low income black students their career aspirations typically amounted to either being a baller, rapper, or top-dawg in their hood (which was likely a upper level drug dealer). Although, I'm sure he just made all this up in order to spread racism!

[Edited on August 5, 2015 at 11:51 AM. Reason : a]

8/5/2015 11:50:28 AM

^how insightful

8/5/2015 11:59:21 AM

Quote :

" Many a sincere person will answer: "Our attitude towards Negroes is the result of unfavorable experiences which we have had by living side by side with Negroes in this country. They are not our equals in intelligence, sense of responsibility, reliability." I am firmly convinced that whoever believes this suffers from a fatal misconception. Your ancestors dragged these black people from their homes by force; and in the white man's quest for wealth and an easy life they have been ruthlessly suppressed and exploited, degraded into slavery. The modern prejudice against Negroes is the result of the desire to maintain this unworthy condition. ... I believe that whoever tries to think things through honestly will soon recognize how unworthy and even fatal is the traditional bias against Negroes. What, however, can the man of good will do to combat this deeply rooted prejudice? He must have the courage to set an example by word and deed, and must watch lest his children become influenced by this racial bias. "

http://www.onbeing.org/program/albert-einstein-the-negro-question-1946

8/5/2015 12:11:52 PM

For the context of TWW:

Quote :

"What, however, can the man of good will White Guilt do to combat this deeply rooted prejudice dislike of liberal whining? He must have the courage to set an example by word and deed Spamming feel-good HuffingtonPost articles in a liberal echo-chamber"

8/5/2015 12:30:41 PM