helluva tv episode

6/19/2016 11:23:04 PM

Ramsey Bolton = Donald Trump
Petyr Baelish = Hillary Clinton

6/19/2016 11:35:35 PM

That was one epic episode.

[Edited on June 19, 2016 at 11:45 PM. Reason : s]

6/19/2016 11:45:01 PM

I had anxiety for an hour straight. Well done.

Who is the bad guy now?

Euron hasn't been established enough / doesn't seem as evil. Sparrow arc looks to be ending soon. Even the night king doesn't seem "evil"

6/20/2016 12:01:46 AM

It was nice of everyone in that battle to climb into a big pile before they died. People should do that in every battle, would really save time during cleanup.

6/20/2016 12:42:40 AM

Sansa is just the fucking worst.

6/20/2016 2:40:30 AM

Battle piles were a bit odd.

The claustrophobia was intense! I think I need to watch it again to truly appreciate it!

6/20/2016 9:08:24 AM

Now that the Starks have (what's left of) the North again, I wonder if we're gearing up for a North vs South war on Westeros next season while Dany begins to make her way south.

I'd have to imagine she winds up allying with the North and crushing Cersei because I can't see her giving up power.

Last season will be vs White Walkers with a unified front?

6/20/2016 9:30:38 AM

Awesome episode overall, shame that the battle scene had to use the predictable Knights of the Vale riding in at the last second to save the day but I can't really think of a better way to do it. The whole episode was ridiculously tense and Ramsey's death was particularly sweet.

6/20/2016 9:51:27 AM

I thought the body piles were fine. Throughout the scene they showed it build with people trying to escape over it and getting killed and adding to it. If you watched the after the show thing they modeled it after a real battle where Hannibal encircled [Carthaginians?] and they said there were many accounts of body piles becoming major obstructions.

The battle scene was great. I was a little pissed Rickon didn't zig zag at all but you have to remember despite his actor's age he's just a little kid. I agree the Vale knights were pretty much the only way that could have gone and it's going to be really interesting to see what Littlefinger wants in return. Stark rule in Winterfell isn't safe when they've got the Vale knights around and we don't know what LF really wants/has been plotting. Maybe he becomes the evil figure.

I thought Sansa was great. Dany and the dragon CGI was great.

Reddit is talking up the Davos in the sun rise finding Shireen's doll like it's the best scene in the show but I didn't really see the reaction from him I expected.

I also thought the way Theon and Yara (Asha) showed up could have been done differently.

Do we think Cercei will burn or attempt to burn down King's Landing? Would make for a pretty epic finale. Would probably also put the seat of power in Westeros at Highgarden.

[Edited on June 20, 2016 at 9:59 AM. Reason : .]

6/20/2016 9:58:14 AM

Isn't next season the final season?

And the knights of the vale wouldn't have been so predictable if they hadn't hinted toward it in the last 2 episodes.

Is there anyway that the dragon queen doesn't win the entire thing? She has those dragons.

6/20/2016 9:59:21 AM

2 more seasons after this, IIRC

6/20/2016 10:13:59 AM

^^ Previously she had been reluctant to use her dragons because of collateral damage but it seems she is starting to relax that. Maybe the writers are pushing her away from her "Mother" mentality to a conqueror mentality - one who doesnt care much about the common man. Based on the books/show so far, rulers with that mentality dont last long.

6/20/2016 10:27:32 AM

that LOTR last minute save though...

6/20/2016 10:45:27 AM

Great episode. Had me in knots the whole time.

I do wish there had been a surprise move from the Umbers or Manderly's against Bolton. I kept expecting it to happen and getting disappointed. I still expect it in the books. But, I can live with the last-minute arrival of the knights of the vale. Predictable, yes, but also oh so satisfying, and presumably now it gets Littlefinger back into the mix a little bit. His presence this season has otherwise been...underwhelming.

I'm curious to see how they deal with the fact that a lot of the north basically turned traitor, as well as the fact that there's now basically nobody left to bear arms there.

And I loved the Dany bits.

Quote :

"Is there anyway that the dragon queen doesn't win the entire thing? She has those dragons."

I think one of the dragons is going to have to be killed to provide a sense of vulnerability, because at the moment Dany is basically unstoppable. There's also going to have to be something that goes wrong with some segment of the Dothraki horde -- they break off or don't make it to westeros or something -- for the same reason.

6/20/2016 11:08:19 AM

Anyone else think that the show alluded to Sansa being pregnant again in this episode?

Someone mentioned earlier in this thread about her statement about still feeling Ramsay and then right before he died he said he was a part of her now. Would make a Ramsay line heir to the North. Am I just reading too much into the dialogue?

6/20/2016 11:19:57 AM

^Regarding the previous comment I would have said no, but after the latest comments and idea that his house has been completely wiped out, I wouldn't be completely surprised if it went that way

6/20/2016 11:27:12 AM

Quote :

"Maybe the writers are pushing her away from her "Mother" mentality to a conqueror mentality - one who doesnt care much about the common man."

I think that's just part of her character development. She's very young and has been through some shit.

This show has a major recurring theme of "Is it better to be loved or feared?"

Through her experiences she's come to realize that it takes a mixture of the two. She's also still a Targaryen at heart so she's got some ruthlessness to her. I don't think she's a villan, or stopped caring about the common man at all. I think she's just wised up about what it takes to be an effective ruler in such a violent world

6/20/2016 11:35:21 AM

Quote :

"If you watched the after the show thing they modeled it after a real battle where Hannibal encircled [Carthaginians?] and they said there were many accounts of body piles becoming major obstructions. "

FYI, Hannibal himself was Cathaginian, so I doubt it was them. Prob a battle with the Romans.

6/20/2016 12:52:06 PM

Quote :

"I'm curious to see how they deal with the fact that a lot of the north basically turned traitor,"

behead the traitors. clear out a few castles and let the free folk have a place to live.

6/20/2016 1:05:26 PM

Quote :

"Through her experiences she's come to realize that it takes a mixture of the two. She's also still a Targaryen at heart so she's got some ruthlessness to her. I don't think she's a villan, or stopped caring about the common man at all. I think she's just wised up about what it takes to be an effective ruler in such a violent world"

A couple of my thoughts:

1. She is barren so she wouldnt be able to extend her line. Doesnt make sense for her to be a ruler in that case in Martin's world.

2. The magic that brought her dragons back into the world also brought back the Walkers so they seem to be intrinsically tied together. An endgame could be the destruction of both. And the dragons are OP so a world with lasting peace could not have them around.

A few lines in the show have insinuated that her role is not to rule but only to conquer/defend. I think at least one of the dragons will be killed prior to, or during, her invasion. She unites the kingdoms to fight against the Walkers but her and the remainder of the dragons perish in the victory.

6/20/2016 1:27:14 PM

I'm fairly certain the White Walkers never disappeared.

One thing's been bothering me about last night's episode. Why the hell didn't the giant have any weapons of his own, that were giant sized? Seriously, wtf was that weakass shit with him swiping at countless spears with HIS HANDS. He could have just taken a tree trunk to use as a club and kill the shit out of (in my estimation) half of the opposing army.

6/20/2016 2:49:51 PM

Giants are OP, they had to nerf him. They could have also just had him shoot arrows at their lines with that giant bow he had at the wall. Or made a suit of armor for him that would have then made him essentially invincible

6/20/2016 2:56:15 PM

Quote :

"If you watched the after the show thing they modeled it after a real battle where Hannibal encircled [Carthaginians?] and they said there were many accounts of body piles becoming major obstructions. "

I didn't watch the thing after, but it reminded me of the Battle of Cannae, where the Carthaginians under Hannibal surrounded the Romans on three sides and butchered them. I'm guessing that's the one they used.

Quote :

"behead the traitors. clear out a few castles and let the free folk have a place to live."

How many Free Folk are even left? Not that many. Besides, you can only execute the leaders -- you'd still have minor houses to contend with. Jon isn't going to behead every Karstark and Umber, man, woman, and child.

6/20/2016 7:16:25 PM

Hopefully the Manderlys swear allegiance to Sansa/John. This would be a major house with its forces unscathed. But on the other hand you have Little Finger with the knights of the vale. It would be annoying to see more maneuvering out of him.

6/21/2016 9:17:38 AM

Winterfell has a weak ass front gate/door.

I know the giant was a beast...but I just don't think they are fit for a strong siege. Need to build a moat or a much bigger/stronger gate. White walkers will make quick work of that place.

6/21/2016 1:07:06 PM

Just rebuild the gate with dragonglass. Problem solved!

Great episode overall. Loved the scene where Jon was riding to the front of the line before the battle started. Everything was eerily silent and tense as hell.

The giant not being armed kinda pissed me off too. Where was his giant-ass bow & arrow? He could've taken out Ramsay before he had a chance to shoot Rickon.

6/21/2016 2:13:24 PM

^the scene where 40 horses are charging at Jon was not CGI - pretty amazing stuff.

I like the moat idea but fill that shit with a water/oil mixture and set it on fire.

yeah the Giant should have just had a telephone poll type of thing to just smash everything up.

6/21/2016 2:17:27 PM

Anyone think we are going to get tower of joy payoff this season?

6/23/2016 9:33:29 AM

I doubt it.

I'm hoping the season ends with Kings Landing on fire.

and an after credits interview with GRRM where he announces TWOW

[Edited on June 23, 2016 at 10:11 AM. Reason : myeah]

6/23/2016 10:10:47 AM

I think the series is running out of twists. Its mostly resolution so tower of Joy becomes the major major reveal. Maybe towards a time when John/Danny are facing the end game.

6/23/2016 11:10:42 AM

I think they'll save it until next season.

This episode will show Cercei's trial and wrap up where everyone is / where they are headed. I think just showing everyone's reaction to finding out the Starks control Winterfell will be interesting.

The "twist" will be Littlefinger now effectively controls the North like Highgarden controls the South due to his army. The Starks will basically be a puppet regime. He'll be our new evil character.

[Edited on June 23, 2016 at 11:31 AM. Reason : .]

6/23/2016 11:30:22 AM

I don't think you introduce the Tower of Joy so early this season and not finish the reveal. Has anyone checked the cast list for the final episode to see if you Ned is in it?

Just checked...IMDB says he's in the final episode.

[Edited on June 23, 2016 at 12:19 PM. Reason : .]

6/23/2016 12:17:41 PM

Can I just say that I've lost a lot of confidence in Jon's character? I thought for sure he wouldn't let his emotions get the best of him when Ramsay killed Rickon. He's really no better than Rob.

6/23/2016 12:30:19 PM

It's in his character though. He tried to run away from the Night's Watch before

6/23/2016 1:02:23 PM

Did he? I thought he was just acting like he was with the wildlings to survive and get back

6/23/2016 1:30:28 PM

I think he means when Sam stopped him

6/23/2016 1:46:48 PM

Quote :

"I don't think you introduce the Tower of Joy so early this season and not finish the reveal. Has anyone checked the cast list for the final episode to see if you Ned is in it? Just checked...IMDB says he's in the final episode"

Dude come on, this comment is basically a spoiler.

6/23/2016 1:47:22 PM

I think Jon's going to find out his history for himself when he goes to bury Rickon in the crypts. Remember they build the tombs as soon as the child is born, so theoretically there is a tomb for Jon already down there if he is truly the son of Lyanna. Ned would have ordered it when he returned with Jon. In the books, Jon has dreams about the tombs and being afraid to go down there.

6/23/2016 2:05:09 PM

^^ Dude, come on...everyone knows what's going to happen. This page is basically predictions of when things are going to happen (next episode or next season).

[Edited on June 23, 2016 at 2:24 PM. Reason : .]

6/23/2016 2:17:57 PM

^^ For such an important secret to keep you're thinking is that Ned would make it so easy to figure out that anyone could go down to the tombs and figure it out? Shouldn't anyone that's been down there know then?

Maybe I'm not understanding what you're inferring...

6/23/2016 2:31:00 PM

^^I mean, I'm not crying over here. But confirming a rumor is considerably different than just discussing rumors.

6/23/2016 2:56:56 PM

TWW can barely keep the lights on and we're still arguing spoilers.

6/23/2016 3:24:40 PM

Quote :

"I thought for sure he wouldn't let his emotions get the best of him when Ramsay killed Rickon."

i take that as part of Melisandre bringing him back from the dead...

his "little bit less" if you will...


i rather enjoyed seeing Jon beat the dog shit out of Ramsey

[Edited on June 23, 2016 at 3:25 PM. Reason : werqew]

6/23/2016 3:25:07 PM

Quote :

"For such an important secret to keep you're thinking is that Ned would make it so easy to figure out that anyone could go down to the tombs and figure it out? Shouldn't anyone that's been down there know then? Maybe I'm not understanding what you're inferring..."

First, only Starks by blood are allowed to go in the tombs unless escorted. Ned could have simply not allowed anyone to go in without his approval. Additionally, there are multiple levels to the tombs and some are so old and so dark that no one goes down there anymore (all of this described in much detail in the books). And, there is a section of the tombs that has been blocked off by a partially collapsed doorway which isnt accessible (also from the books).

When Jon said in the last episode that he was going to bury Rickon in the tombs that's what triggered my idea. If the tomb for Jon is there then it will say his parentage on it.

6/23/2016 4:13:14 PM

Quote :

"The giant not being armed kinda pissed me off too."

The second I saw that I muttered wtf to myself. No way that giant goes into battle unarmed. If he had a tree trunk or something like that he could have wiped out a ton of Ramsey's army.

Also another annoying moment was the Littlefinger part. If they are standing there waiting to go to battle (and Sansa knows LF will be there any moment) why would she let Jon and his army, that would most likely lose and have everyone killed, go into battle rather than tell Jon to wait a little bit because help was coming? Makes no sense.

No sister is going to let their brother march into their death with help around the corner.

6/23/2016 4:40:33 PM

lots of bad logic.

The show basically laid out what 'moments' had to happen and warped the logistics around it to make it happen.

6/23/2016 4:57:10 PM

^^ I don't think Sansa has ever really considered Jon a brother. I think she used him, by not telling him and allowing him and his army to attack LF and the Knights of the Vale were able to completely catch Ramsay off guard and flank him. She already considered Rickon dead, she isn't that caring for her remaining family

6/23/2016 6:45:11 PM

Ya Jon is still family but they were never close. She wants him to live but he seemed secondary to getting winterfell and Ramsay, in her mind. She has learned to look out for number 1.

6/23/2016 8:44:40 PM

Sansa is the absolute worst. Can't stand the character, and the actress is by far the worst on the show.

She whined about not being included in councils, and then when asked her opinion said, "I don't know anything about war, but Ramsay is bad!" and still didn't reveal the possibility that a couple thousand knights could be with them if they waited a day. There's no reason for her to have done that and you just know she's going to fuck something up with Littlefinger and get Jon turned over to the Lannisters or some such shit.

She's just awful.

6/23/2016 8:55:37 PM