Iraq is going to become an Islamic theocracy. Bush got played.

8/27/2005 6:31:08 PM

that's funny because he got played by the neo-cons

ironic at least

8/27/2005 8:19:52 PM

Quote :

"So we are continuing this policy in bleeding America to the point of bankruptcy. Allah willing, and nothing is too great for Allah. ------------ the policy of the White House that demands the opening of war fronts to keep busy their various corporations - whether they be working in the field of arms or oil or reconstruction - has helped al-Qaida to achieve these enormous results. -------------- al-Qaida spent $500,000 on the event [9-11], while America, in the incident and its aftermath, lost - according to the lowest estimate - more than $500 billion."

--Osama bin Laden

Quote :

"“Islam is the official religion of the State and is a basic source of legislation. No law can be passed that contradicts the undisputed rules of Islam.”"

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,7374-1750757,00.html

That is part of the Iraqi Constitution.

Quote :

"Ideology and Goals The principal stated aims of al-Qaeda are to drive Americans and American influence out of all Muslim nations, especially Saudi Arabia; destroy Israel; and topple pro-Western dictatorships around the Middle East. Bin Laden has also said that he wishes to unite all Muslims and establish, by force if necessary, an Islamic nation adhering to the rule of the first Caliphs. "

http://www.infoplease.com/spot/osamabinladen.html

Quote :

"Adnan Pachachi, a former Iraqi foreign minister and . . . one of the Americans' closest friends in Iraq, said he was growing increasingly worried about the overweening power of the cleric-dominated Shiite political leadership, which maintains extensive ties to the Iranian Islamic government next door. "They want to inject religion into everything, which is not right," Mr. Pachachi said of the Iraqi Shiite leaders. "I cannot imagine that we might have a theocratic regime in Iraq like the one in Iran. That would be a disaster.""

- New York Times, Shiites and Kurds Halt Charter Talks With Sunnis, August 27, 2005

Quote :

"The constitution is not only a disaster for a lot of the people who share the secular democratic perspective, whether Sunni, Shiite or Kurdish. It's also leading to some version of a sharia state . . . not necessarily a theocracy but certainly a state where there is a dominant role for Muslim clerics."

- Former U.S. diplomat David Mack, Washington Post interview, August 24, 2005

Quote :

"It is not just Sunnis who are being targeted in this majority Shia city [of Basra], the professor said, but other Shia as well. All professors -- particularly those interested in politics, like himself -- are in danger. And not just professors, but judges, and doctors and journalists. And politicians who are seen as secular alternatives to the clergy now in power. And those, especially women, who work for foreigners. And Christians."

- Newsday, Assassinations, Iranian connection spread fear, August 27, 2005

Quote :

"If you're suggesting, how would we feel about an Iranian-type government with a few clerics running everything in the country, the answer is: That isn't going to happen."

- Donald Rumsfield, Interview with Associated Press, April 24, 2003

8/27/2005 8:31:35 PM

why dont we just go ahead and colonize Iraq?

8/27/2005 8:33:43 PM

Sure! We'll just have the disenfranchised from the US go over to Iraq and race across the desert to stake their claim to a piece of land....the same way we settled the West here.

8/27/2005 8:41:12 PM

Plenty of countries have official state religions informing their laws, none of which qualify as theocracies.

Pryderi lost this thread before he even made it.

8/27/2005 9:10:41 PM

Iran doesn't qualify as a theocracy? When the Shi'ites in Iraq get their way, Iraq will be "Iran West".

[Edited on August 27, 2005 at 9:30 PM. Reason : their, not there]

8/27/2005 9:29:18 PM

^
the weird funny thing is that fact apparently gives you warm fuzzies inside...

[Edited on August 27, 2005 at 9:56 PM. Reason : correction]

8/27/2005 9:55:31 PM

Iran is a theocracy.

Other countries with state religions that influence their laws aren't.

8/27/2005 10:00:39 PM

Quote :

"The dominance of the drafting process by the religious Shiites was underlined on May 24 when Sheik Humam Hammoudi, a cleric, was appointed chairman of the committee. He is a member of the Supreme Council for Islamic Revolution in Iraq, a Shiite religious party that admires the Iranian model of governance."

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2005/08/26/sunnis/print.html

8/27/2005 10:23:08 PM

gg prydri ... I think it is a bit premature to call it a theocracy, but it does make for interesting reading ...

8/27/2005 11:02:42 PM

Quote :

"Other countries with state religions that influence their laws aren't."

Quote :

""“Islam is the official religion of the State and is a basic source of legislation. No law can be passed that contradicts the undisputed rules of Islam.”""

the·oc·ra·cy Audio pronunciation of "theocracy" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (th-kr-s)
n. pl. the·oc·ra·cies

1. A government ruled by or subject to religious authority.
2. A state so governed.


[Edited on August 28, 2005 at 1:07 AM. Reason : k]

8/28/2005 1:06:01 AM

^he's only hedging so that you can't say the same shit about the christian right

8/28/2005 1:11:27 AM

pryderi probably strokes himself off while chanting "Osama is Winning"

8/28/2005 1:56:00 AM

^ wouldnt doubt it

8/28/2005 2:29:54 AM

Thats low. Dont accuse someone of being an Osama supporter when they are just pointing out that there double standards being applied to this war. Some of the most patriotic people in america can tell you that Osama is 1 and Bush is 0. Try and have facts before you deem someone an advocate of terrorism please.

8/28/2005 3:25:19 AM

Dude

I didn't read beyond the first few quotes posted by pryderi

But, that's the thing about ideologies

You can not change them no matter how many people you kill or money you spend.

8/28/2005 4:18:50 AM

Hey, if you're right, then we'll just bomb the shit out of the place again. We're getting quite good at doing it.

8/28/2005 9:22:00 AM

that's great, except I don't want to pay for it

8/28/2005 9:32:39 AM

We can make the money back just by eliminating all subsidies.

8/28/2005 11:47:19 AM

I would be very disappointed if Iraq became a theocracy, Islamic or otherwise.

8/28/2005 5:38:45 PM

Quote :

"Hey, if you're right, then we'll just bomb the shit out of the place again. We're getting quite good at doing it."

It seems like they're pretty good at doing that themselves.

8/28/2005 10:19:08 PM

Valid Point

8/28/2005 10:56:20 PM

Quote :

"Pryderi lost this thread before he even made it."

I guess you were wrong.

8/29/2005 8:21:09 AM

ahahah DG pwnt the fuck out of this thread and all the theocracy naysayers

gg George! Nobody can argue with Webster's



(well, I guess they can, but they would look stupid doing so)

8/29/2005 10:20:40 AM

Senior Iran cleric hails “Islamic state of Iraq”

Quote :

"Tehran, Iran, Aug. 26 – A senior Iranian cleric welcomed on Friday the establishment of an Islamic republic in Iraq and hailed the country’s new constitution as one based on “Islamic precepts.” Ayatollah Ahmad Jannati, who heads the powerful ultra-conservative Guardian Council, told worshippers in Tehran’s Friday prayers, “Fortunately, after years of effort and expectations in Iraq, an Islamic state has come to power and the constitution has been established on the basis of Islamic precepts.” “We must congratulate the Iraqi people and authorities for this victory,” he said. Jannati, who is a top confidant of Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, said that all justice-seeking counties of the world “have no model other than the Islamic revolution in Iran to turn to.” “Lebanese Hezbollah and the state of Iraq are not the only supporters of the Islamic revolution,” he said. Referring to the West as Global Arrogance, the hard-line cleric said, “No matter how many stones they throw in our path, they cannot prevent the spread of the Islamic revolution in the world.”"

http://www.iranfocus.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=3494

Quote :

"Adnan Pachachi, a former Iraqi foreign minister and . . . one of the Americans' closest friends in Iraq, said he was growing increasingly worried about the overweening power of the cleric-dominated Shiite political leadership, which maintains extensive ties to the Iranian Islamic government next door. "They want to inject religion into everything, which is not right," Mr. Pachachi said of the Iraqi Shiite leaders. "I cannot imagine that we might have a theocratic regime in Iraq like the one in Iran. That would be a disaster.""

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/27/international/middleeast/27iraq.html?oref=login

Quote :

""The constitution is not only a disaster for a lot of the people who share the secular democratic perspective, whether Sunni, Shiite or Kurdish. It's also leading to some version of a sharia state . . . not necessarily a theocracy but certainly a state where there is a dominant role for Muslim clerics.""

- Former U.S. diplomat David Mack
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/9071136/

Quote :

"It is not just Sunnis who are being targeted in this majority Shia city [of Basra], the professor said, but other Shia as well. All professors -- particularly those interested in politics, like himself -- are in danger. And not just professors, but judges, and doctors and journalists. And politicians who are seen as secular alternatives to the clergy now in power. And those, especially women, who work for foreigners. And Christians."

http://www.sunherald.com/mld/thesunherald/news/world/12490058.htm

Quote :

"The ferocious debate over a new constitution has particularly driven home the gap between the original U.S. goals and the realities after almost 28 months. The U.S. decision to invade Iraq was justified in part by the goal of establishing a secular and modern Iraq that honors human rights and unites disparate ethnic and religious communities. But whatever the outcome on specific disputes, the document on which Iraq's future is to be built will require laws to be compliant with Islam. Kurds and Shiites are expecting de facto long-term political privileges. And women's rights will not be as firmly entrenched as Washington has tried to insist, U.S. officials and Iraq analysts say. "We set out to establish a democracy, but we're slowly realizing we will have some form of Islamic republic," said another U.S. official familiar with policymaking from the beginning, who like some others interviewed would speak candidly only on the condition of anonymity. "That process is being repeated all over.""

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/13/AR2005081300853_pf.html

8/31/2005 5:27:08 PM