suppose I had a job that paid minimum wage

also, suppose that it takes me a tank of gas per week to get to and from work

assuming that my tank is 18 gallons, at the current price of gas I will have to work almost 10.5 hours JUST TO AFFORD TO GET TO WORK

a living wage, indeed

9/1/2005 11:06:22 AM

a living wage.

not a comfortable wage.

get a fucking bike.

or ride the bus

[Edited on September 1, 2005 at 11:09 AM. Reason : the chariot of the poor and very poor alike]

9/1/2005 11:09:13 AM

if you're oh so poor and having to live on minimum wage, how can you afford a car anyway?

9/1/2005 11:10:57 AM

I suppose, in my hypothetical, I could bike 15 miles there and 15 miles back every day to my physical labor intensive job

there is, unfortunately, no bus line that runs to where I need to go

lets say I work 40 hours a week at minimum wage - which I'd like to remind you is $5.15 and hour

without adjusting for tax, I'm making $206 a week
subtract $54 for gas and its $152

I'm certain I could eat and barely pay rent on that amount of money
but how is a family supposed to survive?

and I wonder why so many people are uninsured

---

^ these days you can't afford NOT to have a car, jackass - you can't get to work without it in many places

[Edited on September 1, 2005 at 11:16 AM. Reason : -]

9/1/2005 11:15:37 AM

Maybe you shouldn't have a family since you can't support them. Maybe you should learn a skill that will earn more than minimum wage.

9/1/2005 11:24:51 AM

Quote :

"my physical labor intensive job"

Quote :

"which I'd like to remind you is $5.15 and hour"

i hear what you're saying, but you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who works a physical labor job for less than $8/hr. maybe people at mcdonald's make minimum wage, but at least they get food hookups.

minimum wage is a joke--i just don't think people are as destitute as you make them out to be.

9/1/2005 11:26:03 AM

I worked for minimum wage at a car wash and it was pretty labor intensive

it wasn't construction, but that is at least semi-skilled labor

the people that HAVE jobs aren't totally destitute because, at least the ones I know with min. wage jobs, work multiple jobs

and there are other people with no job at all

9/1/2005 11:30:06 AM

you know that, working min wage, you do qualify for govt assistance, in the form of food, shelter, tax credits, etc.

you are making it sound worse than it is.

9/1/2005 11:41:28 AM

im honestly thinking of quitting my 2nd job today just because of this, I only work one day a week and half my pay check will goto cover the gas now haha

9/1/2005 11:45:30 AM

Quote :

"these days you can't afford NOT to have a car, jackass - you can't get to work without it in many places"

It's difficult to convey sarcasm in writing since I cannot convey tone and inflection. I wasn't being serious, I was just saying what I figured somebody was eventually going to say, but not being serious about it. You know, just putting it out there and being a jackass in a playful kind of manner, rather than just for the sake of being a jackass.

9/1/2005 11:51:05 AM

Quote :

"these days you can't afford NOT to have a car, jackass - you can't get to work without it in many places"

thousands of workers do not own a car and get by just fine in america - this is a horrible generalization

Quote :

" worked for minimum wage at a car wash and it was pretty labor intensive it wasn't construction, but that is at least semi-skilled labor"

washing a car is not semi-skilled labor - it is definitely unskilled labor that requires no previous experience

Quote :

"you know that, working min wage, you do qualify for govt assistance, in the form of food, shelter, tax credits, etc. you are making it sound worse than it is."

you can't argue with idiots grapehead - snewf's entire argument is based off of horrible assumptions

9/1/2005 12:04:06 PM

the thing about raising the minimum wage is, it gives firms instant pricing power.

that combined with upwards pricing pressure makes prices go up, rendering the wage increase futile.

however, during the lag time it takes prices to catch up to the wage pressure, there exists opportunity for some wealth creation to take place.

so well timed wage increases can serve a good purpose.

9/1/2005 12:04:40 PM

most people making min wage are prolly on welfare anyway

9/1/2005 12:23:10 PM

The obvious answer to all this: get a mo-ped, scooter, or motorcycle!
They don't tire you out after a long day at work, plus they look cool! And by george, the damn things get up to 80 miles per gallon!

Not to mention they are much cheaper than cars. Their carrying capacity is limited, but you can get a basket for one to carry groceries.

http://www.gmimotorsports.com/

9/1/2005 12:49:30 PM

^4

your arguments against me are based on poor reading comprehension

Quote :

"these days you can't afford NOT to have a car, jackass - you can't get to work without it in many places"

also, I was indicating that construction is at least semi-skilled labor
not carwashing

9/1/2005 12:58:46 PM

People that want minimum wages are the same people who wanna spend half their life on social securityor hate globalization.

9/1/2005 1:05:19 PM

My roomate from Charlotte says he worked a McDonnalds for a short stent in High School and the lowest salary they paid was $6.15 an hour. His manager got far more.

So who are these people working for minimum wage?

Snewf, what about my suggestion in favor of two-wheeled transportation? If you are truely poor, it works perfectly!

Cheaper, consumes less fuel, lower maintenance, and can weave through traffic jams, making it a more reliable means of transportation.

9/1/2005 1:12:17 PM

This thread has been done recently.

I don't think raising the minimum wage would do much to solve this. It would mainly just raise the cost of living. People in this tax bracket should pay little or no taxes but receive social health care among other things.

Oh would that it were that way.

9/2/2005 2:34:37 AM

Im not in support of raising the min wage, but people working for min wage do not get assistance if they have hardly any money in the bank or a car thats worth 2 grand.

9/2/2005 3:04:23 AM

minimum wage is a travesty because it inflates what workers who do totally worthless jobs make. it makes better business sense to allow the economy dictage wages. if you are a worthless bastard, and make 2 bucks an hour, maybe that will motivate you to learn a damn skill.

9/2/2005 3:07:17 AM

^ somebody's got to do those jobs. it's not like if every minimum wage worker went out and got a college degree that the need for menial labor would disappear.

they fulfill a niche like all of us and they shouldn't be punished with sub-survival wages because of it.

9/2/2005 11:09:28 AM

Quote :

"it's not like if every minimum wage worker went out and got a college degree that the need for menial labor would disappear."

But it would mean that menial labor would get paid the same as someone with a college degree.

Menial wages would rise precipitously, college wages would fall precipitously, meeting somewhere in between.

9/2/2005 11:32:13 AM

Quote :

"CEO: Worker Pay Ratio Shoots Up to 431 : 1 Biggest Defense Contractors Raise CEOs’ Pay 200% Since 9/11 DOWNLOAD THE REPORT HERE: Executive Excess 2005 (PDF, 3.81 MB). 2004 was a banner year for CEOs and a dismal year for workers, according to a new report from the Institute for Policy Studies and United for a Fair Economy, Executive Excess 2005: Defense Contractors Get More Bucks for the Bang. The ratio of average CEO pay (now $11.8 million) to worker pay (now $27,460) spiked up from 301-to-1 in 2003 to 431-to-1 in 2004. If the minimum wage had risen as fast as CEO pay since 1990, the lowest paid workers in the US would be earning $23.03 an hour today, not $5.15 an hour. "

http://www.faireconomy.org/press/2005/EE2005_pr.html

9/2/2005 11:41:44 AM

sure, lets raise minimum wage up because one industry is hiking prices. IF YOU INCREASE MIN. WAGE, EVERY INDUSTRY WOULD ADJUST LEADING TO HIGHER PRICES AND INFLATION.

[Edited on September 2, 2005 at 11:43 AM. Reason : .]

9/2/2005 11:43:02 AM

If you want low-waged workers to earn more, have fewer of them.

9/2/2005 12:41:37 PM

Wow - small amout of pay for unskilled labor - WHAT A FUCKIGN SHOCK>

9/2/2005 1:14:15 PM

^^^ i caught this topic late but your right what an idiotic idea... i mean did he even give it thought when he said this (ssjamind) please remember that the people who are the very bottom may, just maybe get some benefit, but the people who have jobs any money at all, lose money, due to inflation, any savings would be devalued, basically meaning anybody just recently unemployed, or without work for any number of reasons it hurts the worst.

[Edited on September 2, 2005 at 3:13 PM. Reason : ^^^]

9/2/2005 3:13:04 PM

What exactly does a CEO do that merits 431 times the pay of his/her workers?

9/2/2005 4:43:02 PM

Hypothesize.

9/2/2005 4:46:18 PM

Quote :

" but you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who works a physical labor job for less than $8/hr"

i worked construction and most of the unskilled labor was getting under $8/hr

if i was getting $8/hr i would have thought that kicked ass

also me and the other white guy were the only ones with cars and everyone else did fine without them

[Edited on September 2, 2005 at 5:11 PM. Reason : .]

9/2/2005 4:48:05 PM

I feel you here Snewf. Its tough to live on min. wage, especially if you live a ways from your job. People who don't understand this have never worked a min. wage job. Also, just because you make that wage doesn't mean you aren't a hard worker. in some economically depressed areas its the only work folks can find.

So the only advice to give is this- Do things to get by you normally wouldn't think to do. Clothes from the goodwill, hit up the local dumpsters, usually you can find perfectly good food that has been thrown out because of experation dates or someone was too lazy to stock it. If you have specific needs, hit up the yellow pages, just like a normal shopper would do. Try to find a rent situation where you can work for rent instead of pay. As for health care don't sweat it. If something really serious comes up, go to the ER. By law they are required to treat you. Give them a different name. use the first 5 digits of your social, but a different last 4. This will get you treatment for basic stuff, and they keep the bill! I've done all this stuff and it works.

9/2/2005 5:10:15 PM

Quote :

"What exactly does a CEO do that merits 431 times the pay of his/her workers? "

1. plenty of stuff
2. it doesn't matter

fucking capitalism haters.

and Snewf, aren't you a registered Libertarian? i understand that you don't have to toe the party line all the time, but time and time again, you fall in line FAR closer to the Democratic (or maybe Green) party than the Libertarian party.

9/2/2005 11:05:10 PM

For the record, while minimum wage is a joke the real problem lies with terrible urban planning resulting in long distances and lopsided property values.

9/3/2005 2:53:56 AM

I'm libertarian solely because the democratic party is consistently too much of a pussy to stand up for the Constitution

9/3/2005 4:12:15 AM

No dude.

They're supporting freedom.

9/3/2005 4:14:47 AM

Why does everyone hate capitolism?

It's a great system if you let it do its thing.

9/3/2005 8:59:46 AM

Raise the minimum wage and the price of food, gas, etc. will go up right along with it while cheapening the value of the dollar at the same time which hurts us that are in the working middle class.

Besides, statistics have shown that a vast majority of people making minimum wage are teenagers working their 1st job.

9/3/2005 9:10:24 AM

Teenagers tuk ur jobs!

9/3/2005 10:16:28 AM

Quote :

"What exactly does a CEO do that merits 431 times the pay of his/her workers?"

Only a child with 0 life experience would spew such bullshit.

Unskilled labour = min wage. Bottom line.

9/3/2005 1:03:19 PM

only retarded people and teenagers make min wage

9/3/2005 7:04:22 PM

Quote :

"Only a child with 0 life experience would spew such bullshit."

Answer the question, and stop projecting.

9/3/2005 9:27:47 PM

for one they make it possible for everyone underneath them to get paid

thats why they get paid the big bucks, so they can snag a good ceo that will make the company profitable

9/3/2005 10:03:42 PM

How about this food for thought snewf... raising the minimum wage would hurt those it was supposed to help... any minimum wage hurts those it's supposed to help.


Lets say you had a choice between a hamburger and a steak. You like hamburgers, but you LOVE steak. Hamburgers are $3 a piece and steak is $10 a piece. Lets say that, even though you love steak, you choose the hamburger because it's cheaper. Now say that some power that be thinks that hamburgers are way underpriced and sets a price floor on them for $10 a piece. Who ion their right mind would buy the hamburger over the steak?

Unfortunately, we have uneducated, unskilled people in America. They want jobs. They are of little benefit to any company besides menial tasks. If you were to impose a floor for these people to get paid a minimum of $7 an hour, you would more than likely forgo the poor, 3rd grade educated man for the kid who passed high school. You want to pay the person what they're worth.

Back in the 60s and 70s, there used to be ushers at movie theaters. Ever since the minimum wage crept higher and higher, those jobs completely disappeared. Why? Because it was no longer worth it to pay the kid to be an usher at $5.15 an hour. Instead of hiring someone to do something that wasn't worth it, eliminate the job.

And that's what'll happen if you raise the minimum wage to a level that completely destroys the equilibrium in the system. You'll eliminate the jobs that aren't worth it or you'll hire people worth the minimum wage and not those who aren't worth it. Thus, eliminating the jobs these people could have or not hiring them for jobs where the pay is higher than what they're worth.

[Edited on September 3, 2005 at 10:16 PM. Reason : .]

9/3/2005 10:13:11 PM

Movie theaters have ushers.

9/3/2005 10:21:35 PM

Not the ones I've been to. In the olden days of a less restrictive minimum wage, there used to be (usually high school) kids who would help you find your seat. That was their sole job.

9/3/2005 10:26:35 PM

i have only been to one place that had staffed elevators
lets bring back that shit

also everywhere should have a doorman to get my umbrella

9/3/2005 10:39:27 PM

I want to have more people lick my asshole on a daily basis if possible.

9/3/2005 10:44:25 PM

then you should hire asshole-lickers

9/3/2005 11:03:36 PM

^ Is your mom back in the business?

9/3/2005 11:06:37 PM

Quote :

"only retarded people and teenagers make min wage"

Wins

9/4/2005 4:59:12 PM