And give it to the needy.

Conservatives want to lower taxes...
So you can keep what you've earned, and boost the economy.

How many of the recently needy in the south voted for Bush and are now upset the governments not getting them more money faster?

[/oversimplification]

9/15/2005 9:04:45 PM

of course, if their local gov't hadn't failed them, then they wouldn't be needing the assistance of the federal gov't...

9/15/2005 10:25:10 PM

Quote :

"he Administration’s Three-Part Comeback Plan: Late this week, Administration aides were describing a three-part comeback plan. The first: Spend freely, and worry about the tab and the consequences later. “Nothing can salve the wounds like money,” said an official who helped develop the strategy. “You’ll see a much more aggressively engaged President, traveling to the Gulf Coast a lot and sending a lot of people down there.” The second tactic could be summed up as, don’t look back. The White House has sent delegates to meetings in Washington of outside Republican groups who have plans to blame the Democrats and state and local officials. The third move: Develop a new set of goals to announce after Katrina fades. Advisers are proceeding with plans to gin up base-conservative voters for next year’s congressional midterm elections with a platform that probably will be focused around tax reform. Because Bush will need a dynamic salesman to make sure that initiative goes better than his Social Security proposal, advisers tell TIME there is once again talk of replacing Treasury Secretary John Snow. "

Damage control for the 2006 election cycle.

[Edited on September 15, 2005 at 11:03 PM. Reason : http://www.time.com/time/press_releases/article/0,8599,1103538,00.html]

9/15/2005 11:02:41 PM

Quote :

"How many of the recently needy in the south voted for Bush and are now upset the governments not getting them more money faster? "

prob a low percentage.

i mean, i thought that liberals had established that poor people (especially poor black people) got disproportionately screwed in this ordeal?

and how many poor black people voted for Bush?

9/15/2005 11:11:39 PM

since when do poor blacks vote republican?

9/15/2005 11:16:58 PM

Quote :

"since when do poor blacks vote republican?"

9/15/2005 11:24:20 PM

Quote :

"We must stop thinking of the individual and start thinking about what is best for society." (Hillary Clinton, 1993)"

Quote :

" "We can't be so fixated on our desire to preserve the rights of ordinary Americans ..." (President Bill Clinton, USA Today, March 11, 1993, Page 2A)"

Yay liberals!

[Edited on September 15, 2005 at 11:27 PM. Reason : .]

9/15/2005 11:26:53 PM

Quote :

"since when do poor blacks vote republican?"

x2

[Edited on September 15, 2005 at 11:28 PM. Reason : /]

9/15/2005 11:28:09 PM

oh shit, they vote. Democrat

9/15/2005 11:31:10 PM

Republicans can, want and do reduce taxes. You're entirely correct.

I wish I could say the same about spending.

9/16/2005 12:46:39 AM

spend spend spend

untax untax untax

borrow borrow borrow

9/16/2005 12:51:40 AM

you mean you have to decrease spending, too? SONOFA!

9/16/2005 12:51:44 AM

But how much tax dollars does Bush give to poor people? Ill give you a hint, its alot more than Clinton or any other president has before.

9/16/2005 8:41:27 AM

Quote :

"But how much tax dollars does Bush give to poor people? Ill give you a hint, its alot more than Clinton or any other president has before."

Liar.

9/16/2005 9:14:36 AM

^ Clinton probably gave more through the earned income tax credit, but that would just make GWB second on the list.

9/16/2005 9:43:51 AM

Quote :

"since when do poor blacks vote republican?"

in charlotte the predominantly black precincts 97% voted for Kerry.

9/16/2005 11:18:18 AM

Quote :

"But how much tax dollars does Bush give to poor rich people? Ill give you a hint, its alot more than Clinton or any other president has before"

9/16/2005 11:34:29 AM

    Income     |  % of all returns  |  % of taxable income  |  % of taxes |
---------------+--------------------+-----------------------+-------------+
>= $1,000,000  |        0.1         |         12.2          |     18.5    |
---------------+--------------------+-----------------------+-------------+
>= $100,000    |        8.5         |         48.6          |     62.1    |
---------------+--------------------+-----------------------+-------------+
>= $50,000     |       28.8         |         78.9          |     86.1    |

9/16/2005 11:52:40 AM

I looked over some of the charts on that page, and so far I havent seen anything that agrees with your data.

9/16/2005 12:24:30 PM

Quote :

"Individual Income Tax Returns Filed and Sources of Income All Returns: Selected Income and Tax Items Classified by: Size and Accumulated Size of Adjusted Gross Income Published as: Individual Complete Report (Pub 1304) Table 1.1 Tax Years: 2001 2000 1999 1998 1997 1996 "

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/01in11si.xls

9/16/2005 12:37:44 PM

Ah now I see where you got your data from.

Now would you please explain the relevance? So far you've shown that the top .1% account for 12.2% of total taxable income....from which I can infer that the top .1% possesses 12.2% of this nation's wealth. The table is a little vague so plz correct me if Im wrong.

Not that this has anything to do with tax refunds. We were talking about giving, not taxing.

[Edited on September 16, 2005 at 1:27 PM. Reason : .]

9/16/2005 1:26:08 PM

^ You are wrong.
% of national income != % of national wealth.

I can be a millionaire, quit my job, shove all the money in a matress, thus eliminating any income (I'll become eligible for the earned income tax credit) while all the while STILL being a millionaire.

9/16/2005 2:54:23 PM

Quote :

"Liar. "

Here are the facts.http://a255.g.akamaitech.net/7/255/2422/02feb20041242/www.gpoaccess.gov/usbudget/fy05/pdf/budget/hhs.pdf say the president spends 390 million dollars to provide health care, job training, substance abuse and mental health treatment of homless and poor people.

Clinton only gave 120 million.

[Edited on September 16, 2005 at 3:20 PM. Reason : .]

9/16/2005 3:19:42 PM

Sorry for the vagueness.

% of all returns: percentage of all tax returns which fall into this income range.
% of taxable income: of all taxable income earned, percentage which is earned by those in this income range.
% of taxes: Of all taxes collected, percentage paid by those in this income range.

So, people who make more than 50k--about 30% of income earners--pay 86% of the taxes. The other 70% of income earners pay only 14%. The average tax rate for those who make more than 50k is about 18%. For less than 50k it's 8%.

I just have a hard time with statements like "Bush gives rich people more tax money" when the rich pay the vast majority of taxes collected.

Quote :

"Not that this has anything to do with tax refunds. We were talking about giving, not taxing."

Tax refunds aren't gifts. It's the difference between what you paid in taxes during the year and what you owe in taxes. A tax refund is a result of overpaying taxes.

9/16/2005 3:50:24 PM

Quote :

"^ You are wrong. % of national income != % of national wealth. I can be a millionaire, quit my job, shove all the money in a matress, thus eliminating any income (I'll become eligible for the earned income tax credit) while all the while STILL being a millionaire."

Lets not waste time on semantics. My point was the top .1% rightly account for 12.2% of income taxes.

Quote :

"Tax refunds aren't gifts. It's the difference between what you paid in taxes during the year and what you owe in taxes. A tax refund is a result of overpaying taxes."

Again, semantics. My point was you're showing numbers based on what people pay TO the government, not the refunds they get FROM the government.

I think the whole point of the argument has been lost anyways. It was just a pun on the common conception that Bush's tax cuts help mainly the rich.

9/16/2005 4:08:28 PM

Quote :

" Again, semantics. My point was you're showing numbers based on what people pay TO the government, not the refunds they get FROM the government."

did you really just say that out loud?

thats like arguing that its not fair that the cashier gives a person who pays with a hundred dollar bill for a stick of gum more money back than the person who bought that gum with a ten.

9/16/2005 7:40:53 PM

I dont know where the hell you got that idea

9/16/2005 11:23:36 PM

maybe from the idea that the gov't doesn't HAVE any money, save for what it takes from its citizens. Thats the whole fucking point of the post!

9/17/2005 1:22:26 PM

Great, I would agree. I still dont know where you're going with this.

9/17/2005 4:43:28 PM