Every baby born today is now $26,795.76 in debt thanks to the rapacious repugnicans looting the treasury with an illegal war and the tax cuts to the robber-barons.

9/16/2005 9:21:57 AM

i'm still in more debt that that

9/16/2005 9:25:03 AM

Yeah, but you incurred your own debt. Now babies are born with a huge debt and a soul to sell.

9/16/2005 9:27:59 AM

^ You do realize that is not "their" debt, right?

The Government could default on that debt with remarkably little effect on us personally.

Well, unless you own treasury bills, which most people do... Then would be the recession, dollar devaluation, outrage from overseas, but in the end we would all survive to live happy lives $27k richer.

That said, your $27k is over my lifetime, they're not going to pay it all off next year. Not to mention, with an average per capita of almost $40k, your debt to earnings ratio is remarkably affordable.

9/16/2005 9:47:33 AM

Quote :

"pryderi: Every baby born today is now $26,795.76 in debt thanks to the rapacious repugnicans looting the treasury with an illegal war and the tax cuts to the robber-barons."

You assume that your $26,795.76 "debt" is something that everyone repays.

So let's do a little homework exercise: find me the last 50+ year timespan where federal debt has decreased.

[Edited on September 16, 2005 at 10:16 AM. Reason : or 10-, 20-, 30-, 40-year timespan, etc]

9/16/2005 10:14:35 AM

Unfortunately, we couldn't keep Clinton in office for an entire life-span.



[Edited on September 16, 2005 at 10:55 AM. Reason : html]

9/16/2005 10:55:24 AM

Quote :

"TGD: So let's do a little homework exercise: find me the last 50+ year timespan where federal debt has decreased. [Edited on September 16, 2005 at 10:16 AM. Reason : or 10-, 20-, 30-, 40-year timespan, etc]"

9/16/2005 11:35:01 AM

It can't be done unless we prevent republicans from becoming president.

9/16/2005 11:39:33 AM

I DONT BELIEVE ANYTHING WITHOUT A LINK TO A URL

9/16/2005 11:44:21 AM

Then you don't believe anything ggmon, aaronburro et. al. post.

9/16/2005 11:46:32 AM

you're so far from the truth in general its unbelievable

9/16/2005 11:49:08 AM

Quote :

"pryderi: It can't be done unless we prevent republicans from becoming president."

OK, so you admit that this entire thread is a waste of server space. Just checking.

9/16/2005 11:51:56 AM

wtf the national debt did not almost become zero in 2000.

9/16/2005 11:55:49 AM

yeah remember clinton made a surplus that bush lost

9/16/2005 11:58:44 AM

yeah remember clinton's illegal war in bosnia didnt loot the treasury

you remember when Clinton was president and all the rappers were complaining about being treated badly and not having shit and fuck the govt

now they're all drunk off cristal with diamonds fallin out of their asses

notice in pryderi's upcoming post the "2004 - 2009 Projected" part...meaning the last 5 years of that graph are not 1 bit factual

9/16/2005 12:00:55 PM

oh wow

9/16/2005 12:02:57 PM

Quote :

"Your search - $26,795.76 birth tax - did not match any documents. "

9/16/2005 12:05:41 PM

Quote :

"U.S. NATIONAL DEBT CLOCK The Outstanding Public Debt as of 16 Sep 2005 at 04:06:19 PM GMT is: $7,963,352,962,876.52 The estimated population of the United States is 297,180,762 so each citizen's share of this debt is $26,796.32. "

http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/

there you go, chief

[Edited on September 16, 2005 at 12:09 PM. Reason : add]

9/16/2005 12:07:38 PM

oh i get it

national debt divided by population

cause everybody is gonna have to pay that

so its really relevant

9/16/2005 12:10:46 PM

Quote :

"I DONT BELIEVE ANYTHING WITHOUT A LINK TO A URL"

just helping you out

[Edited on September 16, 2005 at 12:13 PM. Reason : ]

9/16/2005 12:12:48 PM

Quote :

"wtf the national debt did not almost become zero in 2000."

It's the derivative. According to that, it almost leveled off in 2000.

9/16/2005 1:32:04 PM

Assuming that chart is correct, Im surprised at how the Vietnam war had very little impact on our national debt.

9/16/2005 1:39:53 PM

Ha Ha

Look at you guys try and downplay this as if its nothing big.

Hey TGD, find me the last time in the history of the fucking world where a country's debt divided by 300,000,000 equaled 26,795.56 .

9/16/2005 1:55:54 PM

^^^ yeah well I understood/knew that, unfortunatly I misread the title of the graph, woops.

[Edited on September 16, 2005 at 1:57 PM. Reason : ^]

9/16/2005 1:56:26 PM

Chart from the same site pry quoted. Shows the constant increase over time, with the exception of the tech boom.

9/16/2005 2:02:28 PM

^^^
I love you people on teh L3ft

I'll cut you a deal SandSanta: find me the last time in the history of the fucking world where a country's GDP divided by 300,000,000 equaled $40,100.00

---

Quote :

"pyrowebmastr: Assuming that chart is correct, Im surprised at how the Vietnam war had very little impact on our national debt."

It's the scale. National debt went up sharply during Vietnam, but OMF it's nothing compared to W and Reagan!!1

[Edited on September 16, 2005 at 2:07 PM. Reason : ---]

9/16/2005 2:06:09 PM

IRAQ IS VIETNAM

NO BLOOD FOR OIL

9/16/2005 2:15:07 PM

This is what you guys don't get.

If our entire GDP was devoted, if in some weird universe it were possible, to paying off the National Debt then our entire economy would collapse and the Federal Government would be entirely bankrupt. Beyond bankrupt even, it would effectively cease to function.

So when you throw out some bullshit like "oh yea but our GDP is xxxxxx.xx" it really has holds no meaning in this discussion. The debt is there whether our GDP is $eleventybilliondollarsperperson or $0.

What is relevent, sir, is the fact that the entire federal budged devoted to paying down the national debt couldn't do it within five years.

[Edited on September 16, 2005 at 2:21 PM. Reason : *e]

9/16/2005 2:21:04 PM

why would we need to pay it down in five years?

9/16/2005 2:22:51 PM

You know

It all makes sense

How college students accumulate so much debt.

[Edited on September 16, 2005 at 2:24 PM. Reason : *t]

9/16/2005 2:24:15 PM

^^^

Quote :

"SandSanta: What is relevent, sir, is the fact that the entire federal budged devoted to paying down the national debt couldn't do it within five years."

Well sure, if by "relevant" you mean "completely and totally not relevant."

[Edited on September 16, 2005 at 2:25 PM. Reason : ---]

9/16/2005 2:25:39 PM

Quote :

"Hey TGD, find me the last time in the history of the fucking world where a country's debt divided by 300,000,000 equaled 26,795.56 ."

Quote :

"Accordingly, investment in American cities continued, but, U.S. public debt grew while Canada's began to shrink (as of the end of 2003 it was still larger per capita than the U.S. debt but falling, and the U.S. debt was widely expected to pass it and become the fifth-highest among the G8 nations)."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_debt

Quote :

"The debt can also be measured as a fraction of the nation's gross domestic product (GDP); at present, U.S. public debt is about 65% of the GDP, a rather average level when compared to other nations... The economy of Japan could be more worrisome, as the country has a debt of about 165% of its GDP."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._public_debt

9/16/2005 2:27:52 PM

You're absolutely right.

Spending DoublePlusGood.

Tax Cuts DoublePlusGood.

Common Sense "T3h l3ft" bad.

9/16/2005 2:28:01 PM

Quote :

"wtf the national debt did not almost become zero in 2000."

well, it's a good thing the title didnt' say national debt, but rather the change in national debt

9/16/2005 2:29:02 PM

Did you actually read anything you posted msb2ncsu

Because while I hate being a killjoy, no industrialized nation's debt equals that of the United States.

9/16/2005 2:30:36 PM

maybe we should withdraw all funding to other nations and focus that money soley on our debt.

9/16/2005 2:34:50 PM

we've got freedom to spread

9/16/2005 2:35:57 PM

Can't really do that either, Lokken, as a portion of our debt is held by other countries.

[Edited on September 16, 2005 at 2:38 PM. Reason : ']

9/16/2005 2:38:31 PM

Quote :

"SandSanta: Common Sense "T3h l3ft" bad."

This coming from someone arguing income is irrelevant when discussing debtload

My offer still stands though:

Quote :

"TGD: I'll cut you a deal SandSanta: find me the last time in the history of the fucking world where a country's GDP divided by 300,000,000 equaled $40,100.00 "

oh and let's not forget the homework assignment...

Quote :

"TGD: So let's do a little homework exercise: find me the last 50+ year timespan where federal debt has decreased. [Edited on September 16, 2005 at 10:16 AM. Reason : or 10-, 20-, 30-, 40-year timespan, etc]"

[Edited on September 16, 2005 at 2:41 PM. Reason : staying on-topic...]

9/16/2005 2:38:46 PM

Quote :

"Did you actually read anything you posted msb2ncsu Because while I hate being a killjoy, no industrialized nation's debt equals that of the United States."

I didn't say anything about amount... merely pointed out the scale/perspective factor. We are a world power with a large burden and our debt is always going to be higher. Its like when Donald Trump pointed to a homeless person and said "That guy is worth more than me" because trump was carrying imense debt at the time and was technically worth less than someone with no money at all. Did you read anything I posted? Our public debt, per capita, is not the highest (which was the whole point of this thread). Of course no time in the world's history has debt ever been this high because never in the world's history has global economy been so inflated. You have to look at perspective and timeframe.

9/16/2005 2:43:03 PM

Actually I believe I stated that throwing out random GDP numbers was entirely irrelevent to the fact that we currently have nearly $8,000,000,000,000 in debt.

I believe this is my exact statement:

Quote :

"So when you throw out some bullshit like "oh yea but our GDP is xxxxxx.xx" it really has holds no meaning in this discussion. The debt is there whether our GDP is $eleventybilliondollarsperperson or $0."

Lets look at the Wiki Definition of GDP:

Quote :

"GDP is defined as the total value of final goods and services produced within a territory during a specified period (or, if not specified, annually, so that "the UK GDP" is the UK's annual product). GDP differs from gross national product (GNP) in excluding inter-country income transfers, in effect attributing to a territory the product generated within it rather than the incomes received in it."

--http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_Domestic_Product

9/16/2005 2:44:57 PM

^ Some European countries could pay down their debt as you say, but only because their federal budgets make up such a large share of their GDP.

That said, it could be argued that we could reasonably increase the Federal Consumption of our GDP to the level of some other industrialized nations, such as France where it is 57% of GDP. This would give us a national revenue of $11.75 trillion times 57% or $6.70 trillion. Which would give us a surplus of $6.7 minus expenditures of $2.34 trillion, or $4.36 trillion dollars a year. This would pay off our total debt in less than two years, assuming Americans didn't revolt and burn Washington to the ground, an activity I would happy assist.

That said, the Debt doesn't need to be paid back, ever. While it is a good idea to stop borrowing more, preferable to pay it down slowely, but the national debt isn't much of a problem for America.

[Edited on September 16, 2005 at 2:48 PM. Reason : ^]

9/16/2005 2:47:47 PM

^^
I'm trying to figure out where to direct the : the fact you repeated the same BS from the last post, the fact you pulled out a GDP definition, or the fact you bolded the part of it that you did...

Have you ever taken even a high school-level economics class?

---

and to stay on-topic...

Quote :

"My offer still stands though: TGD: I'll cut you a deal SandSanta: find me the last time in the history of the fucking world where a country's GDP divided by 300,000,000 equaled $40,100.00 oh and let's not forget the homework assignment... TGD: So let's do a little homework exercise: find me the last 50+ year timespan where federal debt has decreased. [Edited on September 16, 2005 at 10:16 AM. Reason : or 10-, 20-, 30-, 40-year timespan, etc]"

[Edited on September 16, 2005 at 2:55 PM. Reason : to SandSanta]

9/16/2005 2:47:50 PM

*evade* *evade* *Answer questions by asking new questions* *GOP*

9/16/2005 2:47:50 PM

Quote :

" The buildup and involvement in World War II brought the debt up another order of magnitude from $43 billion in 1940 to $260 billion following the war. After this period, the debt's growth closely matched the rate of inflation until the 1980s, when it again began to skyrocket: * 1981 $1 trillion * 1986 $2 trillion * 1990 $3 trillion * 1992 $4 trillion * 1996 $5 trillion * 2002 $6 trillion * 2004 $7 trillion The public debt briefly started to go down in 2000 when the country had a budget surplus, but quickly started growing again. "

How about you go find how many of these these years had a Republican Administration?

[Edited on September 16, 2005 at 2:52 PM. Reason : Its like, you beat these guys with facts and it doesn't even phase them.]

9/16/2005 2:51:08 PM

^
I think I agree w/ Stimwalt on this one...

Quote :

"Stimwalt: *evade* *evade* *Answer questions by asking new questions*"

[Edited on September 16, 2005 at 2:52 PM. Reason : and you didn't answer the question -- have you ever taken even basic econ?]

9/16/2005 2:52:08 PM

Can you even get quoting right or are you that inept

Quote :

"*evade* *evade* *Answer questions by asking new questions* *GOP*"

[Edited on September 16, 2005 at 2:53 PM. Reason : Yes I have taken Basic Econ. But I answered your other question, didnt I?]

9/16/2005 2:53:00 PM

Quote :

"SandSanta: Can you even get quoting right or are you that inept"

Quote :

"TGD: This coming from someone arguing income is irrelevant when discussing debtload "

---

Quote :

"SandSanta: Yes I have taken Basic Econ. But I answered your other question, didnt I?"

No, you didn't. You took the typical route of teh L3ft, which is to post something completely irrelevant and pretend it's an answer, then to back yourself up tossed out a definition of GDP...making sure to bold the last sentence (apparently on the [false] assumption that U.S. GNP is substantially lower than its GDP).

To answer your question though, teh L3ft had the Presidency for 8 years out of those 24, control of the Senate for 8 out of 24, and control of the House for 14 out of 24.


[Edited on September 16, 2005 at 3:11 PM. Reason : ---]

9/16/2005 2:57:33 PM

Quote :

"You took the typical route of teh L3ft"

YOU WIN

9/16/2005 2:59:24 PM

Quote :

"Actually I believe I stated that throwing out random GDP numbers was entirely irrelevent to the fact that we currently have nearly $8,000,000,000,000 in debt."

Thats great and all but the GDP bit was only half of what I posted. What about the quote stating that even right now we do not have the highest national debt per capita... you know, the very point of this thread.

9/16/2005 3:12:38 PM