why the house of representatives chooses to display fascist symbols behind their podium.



Do these fascii in the house chambers predate Mussolini's use of them as symbols for his fascist party?

Even if they do, would congress have kept a swastika, or hammer and sickle even if they had been using one before the nazis or the soviets respectively?

I'm really baffled here.

[Edited on September 23, 2005 at 8:08 PM. Reason : img]

9/23/2005 8:08:20 PM

Those things are all over Washington, and yes, they predate Mussolini.

They don't represent fascism, they represent the Union of many states, which -- and I know this baffles you, Megaloman -- most Americans actually like.

9/23/2005 8:40:11 PM

of all the times i've sat in the gallery, i've never noticed those things

9/23/2005 8:54:22 PM

HELLOOOOOOOO FOUNDERS' ROME N GREEK FETISH

[Edited on September 23, 2005 at 9:20 PM. Reason : in pagans we trust]

9/23/2005 9:13:12 PM

Quote :

"They don't represent fascism, they represent the Union of many states"

Or imperial authority.

9/23/2005 9:31:23 PM

I mean, as long as you want to completely ignore every normal definition of "empire," then yeah, have at it.

9/23/2005 10:35:32 PM

I was refering to the original meaning of the fasces, a token of the roman emperer's authority; the meaning that would have been familiar to the founders or anyone else before the rise of fascism in Europe. However, since you mention it, I have taken the liberty of including definitions for the word "empire" from merriam-webster and dictionary.com.

http://m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=empire&x=0&y=0

Quote :

"1 a (1) : a major political unit having a territory of great extent or a number of territories or peoples under a single sovereign authority; especially : one having an emperor as chief of state (2) : the territory of such a political unit b : something resembling a political empire; especially : an extensive territory or enterprise under single domination or control 2 : imperial sovereignty, rule, or dominion"

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=empire

Quote :

"A political unit having an extensive territory or comprising a number of territories or nations and ruled by a single supreme authority."

I don't see anything here that is fundamentally different from the character of the US. After all, the US is a large, multi-ethnic state, composed of many territories held together by force of arms. (example, civil war) No one can seriousely argue that we are a federation these days, given that the state and local governments have been reduced to little more than admintrative subdivisions of the central authority, lacking any meaningful independence or sovereignty. Certainly, the US is no longer a voluntary union, if it ever was one. In addition, the hegemony of the US extends far beyond its formal borders. Military, economic, political and various clandestine means are used to ensure de facto US control of a substantial portion of the globe.

9/24/2005 12:00:27 AM

I see an American flag, and 2 scrolls with a leaf wrapped around them.

9/24/2005 1:16:44 AM

^ Right. So it was the federal government which laid down the rules by which my home was constructed?

9/24/2005 1:35:34 AM

Yes, thank you for the history lesson. I know what the goddamn fascii are. Just because the Roman Empire used it does not mean we adopted it to be more imperial. We adopted it because it was fitting -- many individual units (states) bound together as one.

Quote :

"Even if they do, would congress have kept a swastika"

The Nazis used eagles in their symbolism quite a bit, too, are eagles unacceptable now? What about pants? Nazis wore pants, you know.

Quote :

"I don't see anything here that is fundamentally different from the character of the US."

This is because your insanity blinds you to the parts where an empire has "an emperor as cheif of state," or, at the very least, a "single supreme authority." You will, at this point, claim that we are run by a single supreme authority, because you will lump the 500+ members of Congress, the President, and the Supreme Court into one big unified dictatorial blob, because that's what nutbag Libertarians do.

[Edited on September 24, 2005 at 1:40 AM. Reason : ]

9/24/2005 1:39:56 AM

^ Not all of us, Grumpy. Only the Anarcho-Capitalists.

9/24/2005 9:32:54 AM

They used to be on the back of dimes, too.

They might still be--I can't remember.

9/24/2005 10:09:28 AM

Quote :

"The Nazis used eagles in their symbolism quite a bit, too, are eagles unacceptable now? What about pants? Nazis wore pants, you know."

ahahahhahahhahahaha, so true

9/24/2005 10:13:43 AM

Quote :

"What about pants? Nazis wore pants, you know."

its not about the pants...it is about the peace

9/24/2005 11:08:40 AM

Quote :

"You will, at this point, claim that we are run by a single supreme authority, because you will lump the 500+ members of Congress, the President, and the Supreme Court into one big unified dictatorial blob, because that's what nutbag Libertarians do."

1) It makes no difference from my perspective whether the entity that issues the orders to the gun-toting thugs on the street (the government representatives I have to deal with) is an individual or an assembly. A legislature can just as effectively become tyrranical as a single dictator.

2) Obviousely, Congress, the President and the Courts aren't a single person. However, their authority is no less supreme for this fact. The supreme court has interpreted the commerce clause as a near-universal grant of authority, and interpreted away most of the restrictions contained in the 1st, 2nd, 4th, 6th, 8th, 9th and 10th amendments.

So what contrains the government now? Only the limits of credibility, what they can get most people to feel is justified by the circumstances. Thier skill at manufacturing both extreme circumstances and public acceptance of their solutions, through such tools as the media and the public education system, continues to grow.

Quote :

"The Nazis used eagles in their symbolism quite a bit, too, are eagles unacceptable now? What about pants? Nazis wore pants, you know."

Quite witty. However, are you arguing that swastikas would be appropriate?

[Edited on September 24, 2005 at 11:37 AM. Reason : ;]

9/24/2005 11:36:06 AM

why not?

they were symbols of life and strength for thousands of years before they were stolen by the Nazi Regime...

what's the problem with their usage?

in fact, i'm almost positive that if oyu were to look carefully around the government buildings in DC you'd probably find more than one swastika in the decorations...

[Edited on September 24, 2005 at 11:43 AM. Reason : .]

9/24/2005 11:41:33 AM

9/24/2005 11:56:49 AM

troll troll troll troll troll troll troll trolltroll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll trolltroll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll trolltroll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll trolltroll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll trolltroll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll trolltroll troll troll troll troll troll troll troll

9/24/2005 2:06:56 PM

where's salisburyboy when you need him?

9/24/2005 2:25:37 PM

Look, I know all about this. If you have any questions you can ask me, but it all boils down to ancient jewels and deblumes.

9/24/2005 3:00:29 PM

9/24/2005 11:15:47 PM

You see there is even a swastika on the CIA seal.

9/25/2005 8:17:54 PM