And when will it go down?


guess we'll have to wait till 2008 http://www.newsobserver.com/news/story/2014678p-8398629c.html for any relief for commuters. i mean heck its a start.

9/28/2005 3:27:05 PM

supply and demand, i reckon

9/28/2005 3:28:52 PM

Buttafuoco, Buttafuoco, Buttafuoco.

9/28/2005 3:31:41 PM

its gotta be supply and demand

unless you're one of those idiots who is still trying to pawn this "gas is cheaper than it used to be" nuts

9/28/2005 3:35:25 PM

Any word yet on the governors' probe?

9/28/2005 3:36:31 PM

maybe we should just take the oil from iraq instead of trying to keep their export economy sovereign to them

9/28/2005 3:41:35 PM

^^^ who's been saying that?

I mean seriously, why hasn't there been more attention to the fact oil and gas will potentially cripple the US economy come Christmas?

are we just not worried about it for good reasoning? or is it just brushed aside as not "a threat"?

[Edited on September 28, 2005 at 3:44 PM. Reason : too slow]

9/28/2005 3:43:16 PM

Quote :

"who's been saying that?"

how often do you come to the soap box


its the whole "if you look at it adjusted for inflation, we're paying much less than we did in the 80s"

they'll even show you charts

but its all bullshit

9/28/2005 3:45:15 PM

more profit$ for the Rothschild/Rockefeller oil cartel

as for supply/demand, they are deliberately restricting supply via various means (shutting down refineries, etc.) to drive up the price

http://www.newswithviews.com/Ryter/jon100.htm

[Edited on September 28, 2005 at 3:54 PM. Reason : 2]

9/28/2005 3:45:52 PM

it wasn't bullshit a while ago

i imagine it is now, though

9/28/2005 3:49:33 PM

like i said...we could use our military to just TAKE oil from the middle east...but thats not what we're doing...even though plenty of you think that was the reason for the war

9/28/2005 3:50:38 PM

^^^^ ooh. sorry i thought you meant by "they" as in somebody with some sort of national prominence.

inflation charts!? ooo

9/28/2005 3:54:17 PM

Our military IS taking control of the oil fields of the middle east...BUT NOT TO ALLOW OIL TO FLOW. They are taking control of those oil resources to RESTRICT oil flow, which will allow oil prices to remain high.

9/28/2005 3:55:37 PM

HE PUTS A CHEMICAL IN HIS FOOD THAT MAKES YOU CRAVE IT NIGHTLY, SMART ASS

9/28/2005 3:56:44 PM

crave it fortnightly*

9/28/2005 4:21:59 PM

I think Salsburybot is onto something...

purposefully shutting down a string of refineries would make the overall refinery industry richer.

For example, at $60 oil, wholesale gasoline has a marginal cost of $1.70 per gallon, which the market then prices at $1.90 for 20 cents profit. After the shutdowns, oil costs the same so the marginal cost is the same $1.70. However, the market price is now $2.50, for 80 cents profit. Now, to work this miracle the industry as a whole cut production by 30%, leaving 70% operating at the new profit margin which is four times higher.

So, if pre-Katrina overall industry profit is normalized to 100,
then post-Katrina overal profits are 100 x 4 x 0.7 = 280.

Now, there is no real shortage because the missing 30% is shipped in from overseas, driving up their profit margins too.

The question is whether or not there is a conspiracy in the works? I wouldn't think so, because the people whose refineries are shut down went from earning a tidy profit to losing substantially, meanwhile their neighbors make out like bandits. As such, the pressure to cheat would have been stupendous.

9/28/2005 4:58:47 PM

how much does it cost to refine a barrel of oil? $15? $20? anyone know?

9/28/2005 5:51:30 PM

Well, here is a rough guestimate.

At the start of September 2004, a barrel of oil fetched about $43.75.
A barrel of oil contains 55 gallons.
Now, I realize that the oil becomes a whole host of final products, but presumably each product is prices to cover its share of the original crude oil.
At about the same time, a gallon of gasoline traded for about $1.20.
So, recognizing that we are ignoring the true complexities of the process, we have an equation:
$1.20 - ($43.75/55) = $0.40 gallon or $22.25 a barrel, thereabout. Of course, we still need to deduct the cost of transportation, storage, accounting, trading cost, and environmental fortification.

[Edited on September 28, 2005 at 11:48 PM. Reason : ..]

9/28/2005 11:47:48 PM

someone get Queti into this thread

9/29/2005 12:41:53 AM

^^ barrel contains 42 gallons

try again

9/29/2005 7:18:19 AM

[Edited on September 29, 2005 at 7:38 AM. Reason : http://www.ffbooks.co.uk/images/n4/n21882.jpg]

9/29/2005 7:37:37 AM

Oil Is NOT A Fossil Fuel - It Is Abiotic
http://onlinejournal.com/Commentary/091705Mazza/091705mazza.html

Quote :

"The real reason a company like Shell Oil would close a facility like Bakersfield—to bulldoze it, stop it—is to halt the production, refining, and supply to drive up the price of oil. It's that goddamn simple and ugly. And we're doing the same thing today in Iraq, bulldozing a country, to control and reduce its oil supply. Never mind supplying a botched democracy that we can't even supply for ourselves in America. Concurrently, we are also bringing apocalypse to its population, thinning it with more than 100,000 dead, tearing its infrastructure apart, water, sewage, power, media, hospitals, name it. We are decentralizing Iraq's cities, driving people out of them or out of the country, or bombing them back to the Stone Age as our generals are so found of saying. And Iraq, like Afghanistan, is the paradigm of the future, of how we will engulf and devour countries, cities, even our own, like New Orleans for instance, whose Gulf is a rich source of oil, and through whose ports pass a large percentage of our nation's supply. The U.S. political henchmen are thinning the Iraq population to fatten the profits of the oil barons like David Rockefeller. "

9/29/2005 8:28:05 AM

http://villagevoice.com/news/0539%2Cmondo1%2C68217%2C6.html

Quote :

"Any Profit in a Storm Stormy weather allows big oil to practice a crude sort of blackmail by James Ridgeway September 27th, 2005 With gas prices pushing ever higher—maybe reaching $5 a gallon, according to some industry experts—oil company profits are going through the roof. As for the hyped shortage of oil, it's a game of smoke and mirrors. No doubt the hurricanes have caused, and will cause, some short-term shortages just by prompting the closing of refineries along the Texas Gulf Coast, which produce nearly a quarter of our gasoline supplies. But before, and even after, Hurricane Katrina, government reports showed a surplus of crude oil in the U.S. marketplace. According to the Department of Energy's Energy Information Agency, prices of crude oil rose even in this surplus situation. Gasoline is another matter. Having been suppressed because of low profit margins, supplies of gasoline actually increased right after Katrina. The situation doubtless will change after Hurricane Rita. Petroleum analyst Tom Kloza of the Oil Price Information Service in Houston told the Associated Press last week that refineries in Houston were different from those in Louisiana because Houston's are all well above sea level and made it through previous big storms. Power outages might put them out of business for as long as a week after past storms, but then they'd be back up and running. "

9/29/2005 8:34:17 AM

Really? 42? And here I spent my entire life using 55 for my calculations...
http://www.eia.doe.gov/kids/energyfacts/sources/non-renewable/barrel.html
That'll do it, barrel != drum

9/29/2005 9:12:06 AM

^yeah i assumed a 55 gallon drum also

9/29/2005 9:13:46 AM

It's metric gallons.

9/29/2005 9:15:50 AM

Really. I, along with a lot of people, was expecting the worst post-Rita. Prices did go up about $0.10 a gallon. I thought we were out of the woods but prices went up $0.20-0.25 per gallon between 7am and 4pm yesterday. I was expecting to hear that some bad news about some terrorist when I got home but nothing. Maybe it took this long for the effects of Rita to make their way here - but I doubt it.

Here is a nice graph for you:

http://www.raleighgasprices.com/retail_price_chart.aspx

You can even compare Raleigh to other cities. I think DC is the only place I have found so far that has higher prices than Raleigh.

[Edited on September 29, 2005 at 9:51 AM. Reason : .]

9/29/2005 9:50:18 AM

^ Yeah its about $.2 higher up here.

9/29/2005 10:09:58 AM

north carolina in general is bad

you hit south carolina or virginia (But especially SC) and shit drops quick

9/29/2005 10:38:02 AM

^ we had always been about $0.03-0.05 below the national average historically. Now we clock in near $0.10 over the average.

Of course we are one of a few states that has a state tax that is a percentage of the price per gallon rather than a flat tax that is the same no matter what a gallon costs. Gas costs double tax paid doubles.

That probably accounts for it right there.

9/29/2005 10:44:35 AM

Has anyone experienced an increase in their local pumps since yesterday?

I work off of Glenwood Ave, and all the pumps near here jumped $.10-$.15 in less than a day.

wtf? that can't be Rita effects, we would have seen it worse and faster than this i assume.

9/29/2005 11:00:03 AM

^said earlier

Quote :

"prices went up $0.20-0.25 per gallon between 7am and 4pm yesterday"

Yes. They don't even need reasons to gouge anymore.

9/29/2005 11:02:27 AM

see i read that, and i didnt see the increases till today. guess it jumped after i left work.

so what is the "offical" language on prices going down? was it Dec?

9/29/2005 11:06:25 AM

the reason they have to gouge now is that we'll pay it

9/29/2005 11:07:49 AM

^^down. I think they forgot prices can go that direction. They don't have one incentive to lower any time soon anyway

^yup

Imagine what gas will cost next summer. I figure prices will steadily climb about a nickel a week until the oil execs start to worry about people with pitchforks and torches in their front lawns.

9/29/2005 11:13:46 AM

I wonder how well the H2 is selling right now.

9/29/2005 11:28:26 AM

^^ Then you are an idiot.

Quote :

"Yes. They don't even need reasons to gouge anymore."

If they are gouging whenever they raise prices, what are they doing when they lower prices? Being charitable?

What do you think suddenly made oil execs greedier this week than last week or last year?

[Edited on September 29, 2005 at 11:30 AM. Reason : ^]

9/29/2005 11:29:52 AM

i can't really fault them, they're finally testing the limits of supply and demand

i mean, complaining about gas prices is like complaining about capitalism

9/29/2005 11:35:02 AM

Volkswagon SUVs seem oxymoronic

or SUVs with Kerry/Edwards stickers

9/29/2005 12:03:57 PM

^ it does.

^^ but i feel gas/oil transends the normallcy for goods in a capitalist market such as ours. think about it. what other good dictates an economy, hell a state's, actions more than gas and oil in the US?

its not bottled water or beer. our dependency has made oil/gas more than a commodity, but a necessity.

9/29/2005 12:25:03 PM

^ Dude, oil matters so much just because it is so publicised.

This isn't just us, every nation on the planet is addicted to oil. You see, we all shop on the same global market for energy so we all pay the same prices. We may consume more per person, but we can afford it.

But there is something you are ignoring: on average, Americans are 20% richer than other industrialized citizens. As such, although we are all paying the same prices we are uniquely capable of affording it.

If there really is a permanent fuel shortage approaching, what you are going to see is Americans paying high prices and the rest of the world going without.

Lucky for us, however, I don't believe the shortage is real. In a few years the crunch will be over and business as usual will resume.

[Edited on September 29, 2005 at 9:23 PM. Reason : .]

9/29/2005 9:22:12 PM

Quote :

"I think Salsburybot is onto something... purposefully shutting down a string of refineries would make the overall refinery industry richer."

thats not exactly true. yes, the price goes up, but your cost per barrel DOES NOT remain the same. It increases because your fixed costs are spread over less product.

9/29/2005 9:29:55 PM

Quote :

"what other good dictates an economy, hell a state's, actions more than gas and oil in the US? its not bottled water or beer."

its not exactly oxygen either

you would think if it was so vital, and dictates an economy the way you claim, we would be looking for a replacement

but we re-elected bush anyways

9/29/2005 11:02:32 PM

^^ I believe you are not right in this instance. If you would prefer, you can imagine that the price per gallon I used didn't include fixed costs which were then paid out of the profit experienced. As such, the same fixed costs could then be extracted from the new profits, which are 280% of their previous level, while leaving more left over.

9/30/2005 9:03:50 AM

middlemen reap the profits.

10/1/2005 3:00:48 AM

10/1/2005 9:06:00 AM

I think you guys are forgetting that the "evil oil companies" don't want oil to become very expensive because then the economy will begin to shift to alternative sources of energy - and once the economy shifts, its over for big oil

10/1/2005 10:19:36 AM

It costs more per gallon in NC than it does in California. Thats just weird, man.

10/1/2005 12:54:41 PM

holy shit, did salisbury just link the village voice?

10/1/2005 1:02:39 PM

Quote :

"How many of you own hybrid electric-gasoline engine vehicles? (Laughter) If you look under there, you'll see that's one of the criteria necessary to receive tax relief. So when he talks about tax relief, that's pretty darn targeted. (Applause) "

Bush 2000 Campaign Speech Arlington Heights, Illinois

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/politics/july-dec00/stump_10-24.html

Quote :

"GM Plant Closing Has Impact on Tenn. Town AP - 1 hour, 59 minutes ago SPRING HILL, Tenn. - When General Motors Corp. started building cars in this sleepy farming town nearly 15 years ago, the Saturn plant was touted as a key component of the automaker's vision for the future. But now this thriving Nashville suburb finds itself recast as another in a long list of Rust Belt survivors — worried about its economic future as GM announces it will eliminate 30,000 manufacturing jobs, including a production line in Spring Hill where the Ion compact car is produced. Other communities in Oklahoma, Georgia, Michigan and Canada are also facing a future without GM jobs. "

http://news.yahoo.com/fc/business/automobiles_and_driving

11/21/2005 7:58:19 PM