Am I right to assume that gays are attracted to the ideas of sexual acts that offer no pleasure and have to be "worked at" for a while in order to be uncomfortable? How can you tell me that that is something that nature has destined? How can that be in a genetic makeup, to like the same sex?

11/3/2005 3:05:54 PM

Prediction: This will not be a successful thread

11/3/2005 3:07:50 PM

some women find anal sex to be very pleasurable.

11/3/2005 3:10:02 PM

Quote :

"How can that be in a genetic makeup, to like the same sex?"

genetic aberration

[/end thread]

BTW, anal stimulation is pleasurable to different degrees for both men and women. Of course, no man will admit to it.

[Edited on November 3, 2005 at 3:39 PM. Reason : ]

11/3/2005 3:13:09 PM

Geez, that is a gay question.

11/3/2005 3:20:13 PM

This is one of the most appropriately titled threads in the history of the soapbox

11/3/2005 3:33:34 PM

Wheres the gays?

11/3/2005 3:34:10 PM

my ex was crazy about anal sex so it must not feel too bad

[Edited on November 3, 2005 at 3:54 PM. Reason : she would always beg for it]

11/3/2005 3:54:19 PM

Tell us more.

11/3/2005 4:04:25 PM

^ please don't.

11/3/2005 4:05:58 PM

hello prostate

/thread

11/3/2005 4:12:07 PM

Perhaps homosexuals are attracted to people by more than a carnal desire for gay sex.




OMG WHY DO OLD PEOPLE CARRY ON RELATIONSHIPS?! IT'S NOT LIKE THEY CAN SCREW!

[Edited on November 3, 2005 at 4:33 PM. Reason : .]

11/3/2005 4:31:37 PM

Humans in general are fucked up. More gay people is a sign from a higher being that we need to slow down the reproduction rate.

11/3/2005 4:38:27 PM

Quote :

"OMG WHY DO OLD PEOPLE CARRY ON RELATIONSHIPS?! IT'S NOT LIKE THEY CAN SCREW!"

Did you forget? Merck solved that problem a few years ago.

11/3/2005 5:18:33 PM

^^aha

11/3/2005 6:01:33 PM

i'm sorry...this thread just really sucks (screw you freud...dammit, i can't get away!)

11/3/2005 6:17:47 PM

Four fags are sitting in a hot tub. They notice some sperm rising to the surface. One fag says, "Ok, who farted?"

11/3/2005 6:19:16 PM

I am gay but I am not interested in anal sex.

I deal, it's life.

11/3/2005 6:38:45 PM

Oral sex offers no gratification (as in, orgasm) to the performer, and many people never enjoy giving it, no matter how much they work at it.

Hell, even with "regular" sex, a man has to put up with spending money on the girl, taking her out, and listening to her talk. If all you want is to get off, all of that shit is unpleasant as hell (although perhaps, barely, not as unpleasant as getting plowed in the butt).

Pretty much all women are attracted to sex from puberty on, and from my understanding a woman has to "work at" sex a few times before it becomes comfortable, and then even more for it to be enjoyable.

In short: you're an idiot.

11/3/2005 6:38:47 PM

grumpy made my day, he's become one of my favorites in the past few weeks despite the fact i dont agree with abuot anything he says in real threads.

11/3/2005 6:43:20 PM

what i don't understand is why everyone equates homosexuality strictly with sex. if pressed, you MIGHT be able to get them to admit that love and emotions also play a role in one's identity, but by and large, most homophobes, like skankinade, are fixated on the sexual aspects of a gay person's life.

why? why are you so hung up on that?

11/3/2005 7:14:39 PM

b/c the body is a temple and getting poop on your schlong is far from clean.

11/3/2005 7:45:32 PM

haha. you said hung.

11/3/2005 8:02:47 PM

the woman who requests anal is asking a man of small features.

11/3/2005 8:46:34 PM

Quote :

"what i don't understand is why everyone equates homosexuality strictly with sex. if pressed, you MIGHT be able to get them to admit that love and emotions also play a role in one's identity, but by and large, most homophobes, like skankinade, are fixated on the sexual aspects of a gay person's life. why? why are you so hung up on that?"

pwnt

11/3/2005 8:49:55 PM

Quote :

" Of course, no man will admit to it."

the hell they won't

i know guys who LOVE for girls to play with their ass holes.

11/3/2005 8:55:27 PM

they dont call him DIRTYgreek for nothing eh....eh!?!?!

11/3/2005 8:57:44 PM

HAHA

no, it's not me. I don't even like the idea of giving anal pleasure, mcuh less receiving

11/3/2005 9:05:21 PM

that makes you a homophobe

11/3/2005 9:10:58 PM

damn. caught me

11/3/2005 9:15:37 PM

best stop hanging out with said friends then...or join the fun.

11/3/2005 9:33:18 PM

Quote :

"How can that be in a genetic makeup, to like the same sex?"

if you dont know, im not going to tell you

11/3/2005 9:39:30 PM

Easy Answer: Your initial assumption is incorrect.

Not so Easy Answer: Too Lazy to write it.

Mike

11/3/2005 9:42:34 PM

Quote :

"what i don't understand is why everyone equates homosexuality strictly with sex."

Not just sex -- anal sex. Saying that "more gay people have anal sex than the population at large" is basically the same as "more black people murder than the population at large." But only salisburyboy would take a statement like the latter and attribute it to the practices of ALL, or a majority of, black people -- and then cite it as an intrinsic characteristic of "blackness."

Straight people have this fixation on anal sex as dirty, so they take it out on gay people -- why not take the "poop chute" talk to the vastly larger number (in absolute terms, for sure) of straight people who have anal encounters with their women?

Plus on a similar note, about this whole "genetics" thing: being gay isn't just about liking the same sex. That's only half the story. It's also very much about not liking the opposite sex.

Most straight people turn their heads instinctively when a beautiful woman enters the room -- they have a distinct psychological and physical reaction to it. Nobody can convince me that they were trained ("nurtured") from birth to have that reaction; it's just illogical -- it's like suggesting that getting hungry and drooling at the sight of food is a trained reaction.

Sex is just another sense -- I would argue that the political orthodoxy has prevented it from being labeled as such.

Nobody has discussions like "is being colorblind genetic, or is it learned?" It's pretty well-accepted that the sense of sight is a complex set of interactions that form a major bodily function, so the dichotomy in question is fundamentally stupid. The eye is a genetically-formed organ, and it is exposed to light continually -- how do those two factors interact? It is a fundamentally multi-variable problem; so too it must be with sex, which is perhaps even more complex.

The only reason any debate about homosexuality persists -- in its present form, with its allusions to anal sex and "nature versus nurture" dichotomies -- is because our society wholly refuses to discuss sex in any way, shape, or form; and so when we do, it's in the most unsophisticated manner possible. Americans as a whole believe it's better to live in the Dark Ages of superstitious conjecture; whereas if we approached the matter with more honesty, we could stop asking stupid questions and start getting real answers.

11/3/2005 9:47:52 PM

Russell had this figured out to a large degree.

11/3/2005 9:56:12 PM

Quote :

"Most straight people turn their heads instinctively when a beautiful woman enters the room"

But doesnt what a straight man considers to be beautiful or attractive vary depending on the culture they live in and even within the same culture over time?




[Edited on November 3, 2005 at 11:06 PM. Reason : ]

11/3/2005 11:05:01 PM

I am no homophobe, I am trying to keep an open mind. I don't equate it to anal sex although sex is a very large part of a functioning relationship. I can and will admit when a man is good looking, but I would never be attracted to one. I prefer women and cannot see why a man would want to be with another man or women.

11/3/2005 11:14:41 PM

I guess the idea is, to further what Smoker is saying, that sexual preference is about more than just sexual stimulation. If a women doesn't get me off, then I'm not going to want to have sex with women. I will thus try and have sex with men. If men get me off more easily and more gratifyingly so than women, then I will have sex with men far more often, and thus will be homosexual.

The gratification of sexual intercourse is related not only to the physical stimulus, but also the emotional stimulus applied by the partner. Thats why jacking off is different than actual sex, or even a hand job. Thus, if I am more easily emotionally attatched to men than women, then men will give me more gratifying sex. And, physical attraction increases the likelihood of emotional attraction.

Its kind of a cycle. One leads to the other which then leads back to the one, which leads to the other... So, if I am more likely to find males physically attractive, then I am more likely to be homosexual. As smoker said, its not the actual act, itself, which is considered gross. Rather, as I say, its that the act was considered societally unacceptable in many religions for so long. Like smoker said, far more people look down upon a man sticking his penis in a man's ass than a man sticking his penis in a woman's ass. If men had vaginas as well, then I expect homosexual men would stick their penises in their partner's vagina instead of the ass most of the time, just as heterosexual men do with their partners.

11/3/2005 11:20:04 PM

Quote :

"Not just sex -- anal sex."

That is probably not true. At least in my experience. It's basically any sex between males. I remember back in Russia I was hanging around in downtown and I saw this couple - 2 guys - french kissing. Frankly, I found the view somewhat disturbing. At that time I had absolutely no problem realizing they had just as much right to do it, but still the view was pretty unpleasant.

I don't know if this reaction is cultural or genetic. I'd suspect the latter but then again most men think women's breasts are naturally attractive whereas in tribes in Africa those aren't even a sexual symbol really. So it's hard to say why the reaction to gays is such but it is.

11/3/2005 11:23:36 PM

Quote :

"Perhaps homosexuals are attracted to people by more than a carnal desire for gay sex."

I doubt it, especially considering that the homosexual community tends to be the most sexually charged subculture in existence.

11/4/2005 1:04:39 AM

Five guys were in a bar. Feeling slightly sloshed, they started to argue with each other about the size of their penises. Eventually the discussion escalated into a full-blown argument, with each man thinking his penis was the biggest. The bartender suggested, "Put them on the bar so we can compare."

The drunks did just that. Shortly, a gay man came in the bar, looked around, and said to the bartender, "I think I'll have the buffet."

11/4/2005 1:06:17 AM

^^

That is true in some regards, but the truth (as usual) is somewhat deeper.

I think what you find among gay people is a dichotomy between the vastly promiscuous and the vastly faithful. On the one hand, people who sleep around -- on the other, people who have 20 and 30 year relationships.

In the absence of social constructs, and the dynamic of men dating men--there is simply a matter of true connection versus none.

I think the social constructs of marriage and dating inject inertia into relationships, but in many cases they delay the inevitable -- divorce, cheating, and so on. Gay people are just much more to the point in that regard.

Inertia is a good thing. It's what gay people need, and society refuses to allow. For gay people in general, sex is an act of liberation more so than pure instinct.

11/4/2005 2:34:37 AM

Quote :

"Frankly, I found the view somewhat disturbing. At that time I had absolutely no problem realizing they had just as much right to do it, but still the view was pretty unpleasant."

Perhaps -- but the fixation I described exists nonetheless.

Aesthetics are always a tricky issue. But some aesthetics are more powerful than others.

I don't mean to imply that the anal sex stigma is wholly unfounded -- but it's exaggerated by popular (and uninformed) culture.

The general case of men loving men will always be problematic aesthetically for some (perhaps including you), but -- sexuality doesn't require acceptance by everyone, just the two people involved. It would be most helpful if we (as a society) could see beyond the superficial in this regard.

11/4/2005 2:38:14 AM

Quote :

"I guess the idea is, to further what Smoker is saying, that sexual preference is about more than just sexual stimulation. If a women doesn't get me off, then I'm not going to want to have sex with women. I will thus try and have sex with men. If men get me off more easily and more gratifyingly so than women, then I will have sex with men far more often, and thus will be homosexual."

Yes, though I don't think the process is so mechanical.

One thing that is not well understood about homosexuality is that it isn't a process of elimination -- it's not like "let's start with women. OK, don't like that -- now let's try men."

It's more like -- I like guys. Period. Guys are hot, women aren't.

When you grow up gay, you are totally out of the loop on heterosexual conduct except insofaras peer pressure is concerned -- but weighed against physiological and psychological reactions to stimuli, that is a minor factor.

Personally, I would like to know what the origin of homosexuality is. I don't know that I would wish it to be eminently "correctable" -- I have a notion of a "whole person" where sexuality is one element of who one is, and not some isolatable attribute.

I remember reading The Man Who Mistook His Wife for a Hat, a compendium of anecdotes about psychological illnesses. One particularly riveting tale was about the man with Tourette's syndrome who cured it with medicine, but who found it dulled his wit which made him very successful in his personal and professional life. So he decided to let his Tourette's syndrome run free part of the time, because it also enhanced parts of his personality.

Personally I think homosexuality is one axis of a personhood, of psyche. So it is not isolatable from the rest. Like all senses -- if I like smoking cigars, that is a marked taste individual from someone who, say, likes fast cars.

What irritates me about the political and social popular culture is the delineation between gay and straight -- whereas in reality, there are fine gray lines between people, among whom sexuality is one element.

To assume that we have such knowledge of the human psyche that we can discuss "gay people versus straight people" in the popular culture sensibly, is pretty silly and arrogant. Gore Vidal (with whom I rarely agree, but always respect) put it best -- the term "homosexuality" is relatively new in the popular lexicon, and refers to a condition that most likely does not exist outside of a spectrum of personalities and behaviors.

11/4/2005 2:52:22 AM

Quote :

"I doubt it, especially considering that the homosexual community tends to be the most sexually charged subculture in existence."

You are only seeing the 'visible' part of it.

I am gay but have no interest in anal sex; and there are plenty of guys who feel the same way. They are just not the type of person that people like to portray.

The "dark" side of any population (especially a controversial or hated one) is almost always shown and used to brand all of the other members of that population. Without knowing the facts, it is impossble to make an accurate assessment.

[Edited on November 4, 2005 at 9:33 AM. Reason : k]

11/4/2005 9:30:24 AM

Quote :

"I don't know if this reaction is cultural or genetic. I'd suspect the latter but then again most men think women's breasts are naturally attractive whereas in tribes in Africa those aren't even a sexual symbol really. So it's hard to say why the reaction to gays is such but it is."

im going to take a completely unsupported view and say its genetic to some degree. i didnt used to be a "breast guy" but they've really quite grown on me heh. its quite possible that the african culture has just taken that natural instinct out culturally just cuz you see them so much. it works both ways, but yeah....who knows.

11/4/2005 9:35:16 AM

11/4/2005 9:43:58 AM

Why does the cause have to be a black and white, one or the other in terms of the entire nature versus nurture question? I was always of the opinion that it was a blend of both. Perhaps some individuals are predisposed towards homosexual attraction, but by no means does this mean that they will go down that course due to their personal experiences growing up.

As it was mentioned many times before, human sexuality is too complex of a creature to simply attribute to one or two isolated causes.

11/4/2005 11:33:58 AM

Quote :

"Oral sex offers no gratification (as in, orgasm) to the performer, and many people never enjoy giving it, no matter how much they work at it."

bull fucking shit

11/4/2005 12:20:04 PM

nothing says lovin like a mouth full of spooge. getting ur partner there might make you happy and all but physically it has no gratification associated with it.

11/4/2005 12:24:40 PM