If I have to explain how patently stupid that is then you don't belong in college

12/27/2005 3:15:17 PM

he did it cuz he didnt want to spoil the magic of the dinosaurs. i mean we already figured out that santa and the easter bunny werent real. if we lose dinosaurs suicide rates will skyrocket.

12/27/2005 6:11:09 PM

LET ME TELL YOU A SECRET


[Edited on December 27, 2005 at 6:40 PM. Reason : .]

12/27/2005 6:13:51 PM

i forgot my roommate had been using my computer

[Edited on December 27, 2005 at 6:26 PM. Reason : Woodfoot]

12/27/2005 6:25:33 PM

i don't know about "trick" us. but it is a possibility that God did such a thing, assuming He exists and created everything and all

12/27/2005 6:26:24 PM

12/27/2005 6:33:36 PM

^^Why would he do that, if not to trick?

12/27/2005 6:41:47 PM

yes, He is a God of trickery, isn't He

thanks for reminding me

12/27/2005 6:44:49 PM

no matter his intentions, it would be deception

12/27/2005 6:45:24 PM

don't you question the spaghetti monster!

besides, erreyone knows that the devil put those bones there. i mean, the devil is the trickster and all...

12/27/2005 7:13:58 PM

leave my flying spaghetti monster alone. This has nothing to do with him.

I'm being serious now.

12/27/2005 7:19:41 PM

it may be deception, but the intentions do matter. trickery implies ill intentions, and even the word "deception" has connotations that aren't quite accurate.

12/27/2005 7:22:18 PM

than what would be the proper word?

and I'm not talking about connotations

[Edited on December 27, 2005 at 7:28 PM. Reason : .]

12/27/2005 7:27:30 PM

Its a ruse. God never planned on scientists studying shit.

[Edited on December 27, 2005 at 7:29 PM. Reason : ruse.]

12/27/2005 7:28:37 PM

so nutsmackr would that make you an evolutionist? in which case you believe an eye "evolved" from a unicellular organism which "magically appeared". if so you dont belong in college

12/27/2005 7:29:15 PM

OUR GOD, IS A TRICKY GOD
HE REIGNS WITH SHENANIGANS

ps, why not just zoink all our minds so we forget evolution was ever theorized?

(SOMEONE MENTION FREE WILL, I DARE YOU)

12/27/2005 7:29:32 PM

so you are placing a limitation on god's omniscience?

^^I don't believe in evolution. I'm a member of the Church of the flying Spaghetti Monster.
p.s. when you learn what evolution actually states, then we'll talk.

[Edited on December 27, 2005 at 7:30 PM. Reason : .]

[Edited on December 27, 2005 at 7:33 PM. Reason : .]

12/27/2005 7:29:34 PM

well the judeo-christian god engages in an awful lot of trickery

all those tests of faith that are in the old testament and what not (example: telling Abraham to kill Isaac)

I mean hell if youre gonna believe in christianity you might as well believe all the evolution stuff is just a test of your faith, it will make you feel special.

[Edited on December 27, 2005 at 7:50 PM. Reason : ]

12/27/2005 7:49:47 PM

telling abraham to kill Isaac does not equal trickery. It was a test of faith and it symbolized what god was being forced to do by sacraficing his own son

12/27/2005 7:50:52 PM

Quote :

"OUR GOD, IS A TRICKY GOD HE REIGNS WITH SHENANIGANS"

do you know how long it takes to get that melody out of one's head?!!?!!?!?

12/27/2005 7:53:42 PM

^^
"God made the world look old to test our faith in him"

there, same difference

[Edited on December 27, 2005 at 7:55 PM. Reason : ]

12/27/2005 7:55:36 PM

no. One is deception, the other is not.

12/27/2005 7:56:51 PM

TECHNICALLY

God only sent the Lamb after Abraham began to strike at Isaac

i.e., it was only after Abraham proved he was willing to do what the Lord told him

12/27/2005 8:02:33 PM

either way

they are not one in the same.

12/27/2005 8:03:41 PM

well they're also not the same in the fact that one could have happened, and one didn't

12/27/2005 8:06:28 PM

Quote :

"well they're also not the same in the fact that one could have happened, and one didn't"

so you can believe that God could have commanded a guy to kill his son and then sent in an angel to intervene but the very idea that God could have made the world look old to test your faith in his word seems completely implausible?

12/27/2005 8:13:55 PM

one would imply deciet and in the judeo-christian image of god, god cannot deceive.

12/27/2005 8:15:55 PM

um... God can deceive

12/27/2005 8:17:05 PM

no he can't. Otherwise he would cease to be god.

12/27/2005 8:19:34 PM

too bad in the bible he actually deceives someone
and says "hey, i deceived him"

12/27/2005 8:21:05 PM

cite it bitch

p.s. Satan is the father of deception.

12/27/2005 8:21:54 PM

ezekiel 14, son

oh snap scripture pwnt

12/27/2005 8:22:51 PM

precise verse. I need to see it.

12/27/2005 8:25:00 PM

9

your simple understanding of God amuses me
read a bible hippie

12/27/2005 8:26:34 PM

[Edited on December 27, 2005 at 8:31 PM. Reason : n/m beaten to it]

12/27/2005 8:26:43 PM

Quote :

"nd if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the LORD have deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand upon him, and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel."

He is saying if a prophet claims god decieved him he would destroy taht prophet.

12/27/2005 8:27:50 PM

it pretty clearly shows that God can and will deceive someone

pwnt

also see 1 Kings 22:23, 2 Thess. 2:11

[Edited on December 27, 2005 at 8:31 PM. Reason : you can thank my daily devotional for the extra versus]

12/27/2005 8:29:05 PM

Quote :

"so you can believe that God could have commanded a guy to kill his son and then sent in an angel to intervene but the very idea that God could have made the world look old to test your faith in his word seems completely implausible?"

basically

Could He do it?
Sure
Would He do it?
not very likely

12/27/2005 8:31:59 PM

Quote :

" I recognise that it is impossible that God should ever deceive me. For in every case of trickery or deception some imperfection is to be found; and although the ability to deceive appears to be an indication of cleverness or power, the will to deceive is undoubtedly evidence of malice or weakness, and so cannot apply to God [AT VII 53]. "

Descartes. Smarter than your devotional.

12/27/2005 8:36:14 PM

because id rather listen to someone thats thinking about it instead of WHAT ITS ACTUALLY TELLING ME IN THE BIBLE

12/27/2005 8:38:42 PM

Quote :

"PR 30:5 Every word of God proves true. "

Quote :

"PR 30:5 - Every word of God is flawless; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him."

Quote :

" I Sam 15.29: He who is the Glory of Israel does not lie..."

Quote :

"Heb 6.18: God did this so that, by two unchangeable things in which it is impossible for God to lie, we who have fled to take hold of the hope offered to us may be greatly encouraged. "

Quote :

"Titus 1.2: a faith and knowledge resting on the hope of eternal life, which God, who does not lie, promised before the beginning of time, "

12/27/2005 8:40:14 PM

perhaps

OUR GOD, IS A CLEVER GOD
HE RULES, BY PULLING THE WOOL
WITH TRICKS & SHENANIGANS
OUR GOD IS A CLEVER GOD

is a better use of the tune
and yes, i know how much it sticks in yo' head

12/27/2005 8:40:58 PM

none of those scriptures say he cant deceive
in fact they just tell me to trust him when he says he will

[Edited on December 27, 2005 at 8:43 PM. Reason : and we could also start going into context but that would be pointless for you]

12/27/2005 8:43:11 PM

Here answers the Ezekial statement.

1. Verse 5 says that God will answer the idolater "in keeping with his great idolatry." (The punishment will fit/match the crime.)

2. One answer is that the people will be 'cut off' (v8) if they seek a message from the false prophet, and that they will become an 'example and a byword' (this latter phrase is a punishment clause in Deut 28.37, specified for radical rejection of the covenant agreement made between God and Israel as they entered Canaan.)

3. Some false prophets God would stimulate to speak, apparently so that God could judge them as well--by 'destroying' them from among the people of Israel.

4. Curiously, there is no actual mention of DECEPTION in the passage. We have no actual 'hard data' (from the passage itself) to assume that these prophets uttered falsehoods. We have an abundance of data from other passages in Ezek that many of their prophecies were NOT from Yahweh (chapter 13) and even that they 'whitewashed' the evil done by the oppressive rulers of the land (22.28ff).

5. The punishment image from Deut 28 above (#2) has some interesting implications. One of the punishments for Israel's rebellion mentioned in the 'Punishment/Curses' chapter of Deut 28 is that of 'confusion' (28.20, 28). CONFUSION is seen as a punishment from God! "Confusion" is part of God's promised judgment on the nations of Canaan (Ex 23.27; Dt 23.27); it is used as a 'weapon' in God's judgment of armies that fought against Israel in the Exodus and Conquest (Egypt--Ex 14.24; Amorites--Josh 10.9; Philistines--I Sam 14.20); it is sought by the Psalmist as a personal judgment from God on those seeking to harm him (Ps 71.24; 35.26; 40.14; 70.2); and it is prophesied as a judgment on Israel in the messianic age (Is 6.9ff)...more on this in the summary.

6. So W.H. Brownlee (Word Biblical Commentary): "In the present passage, God punishes the apostate nation by granting them false prophets who lead them to their doom."

12/27/2005 8:43:34 PM

as for Kings

# The prophesy is 'against' Ahab, a particularly evil king of the Northern Kingdom of Israel. He typically gathered false prophets around him (as "Yes" men) and complained about the prophet Micaiah (who uttered the above) that he only 'spoke bad things about him' so Ahab did not consult with him much! (I Kgs 22.8,18)

# As we have seen in the later case of Jeremiah and Ezek, this pattern of the rulers only listening to 'politically acceptable' prophets started early. (Remember the "IMPORTANT POINT A" above?) Compare the case of the prophet Isaiah, chronologically between Micaiah and Jeremiah, in 30.10ff:

" They say to the seers, "See no more visions!"
and to the prophets, "Give us no more visions of what is right!
Tell us pleasant things, prophesy illusions.
Leave this way, get off this path, and stop confronting us
with the Holy One of Israel!"

# God had already judged Ahab and decreed his death in 21.19, for , among other things, the innocent death of Naboth (22.1-19).

# The sending of the 'lying spirits' is to EVENTUATE Ahab's judgment (22.20).

# The actual word for 'entice' is the 'seduce' word we saw in Jeremiah. God asks who will 'seduce/overpower' Ahab in going to his death (no mention of 'deception' yet). A spirit volunteers to be a 'lying spirit' and God grants permission, with a "go and do it". Seduction DOES NOT necessarily include deception. There were OTHER forms of the verb, and other words that could have brought that meaning out--if so intended, but they are not used in this passage.

# This 'putting of the lying spirit' is called part of a 'disaster decree (judgment)' in 22.23.

This is a clear case of 'confusion' or false decisions AS A JUDGMENT.

In this passage it is even MORE obvious than in the cases of Jeremiah and Ezekiel. Notice that this passage 20-23 is BEING GIVEN face to face to AHAB! Micaiah, in the presence of the other prophets and even the king of the Southern Kingdom, is describing this vision IN DETAIL to AHAB! Ahab has every opportunity to reject the lying spirits and accept the true message from YAHWEH! Kaiser makes this point clearly (Hard Sayings in the Old Testament by W.C. Kaiser, Jr., IVP:1988: 120f): "This principle is further confirmed when we note that the passage in question is a vision that Micaiah reveals to Ahab. God is telling Ahab, 'Wise up. I am allowing your prophets to lie to you." In a sense, God is revealing further truth to Ahab rather than lying to him. If God were truly trying to entrap Ahab into a life-threatening situation, he would not have revealed the plan to Ahab! Even so, Ahab refuses to heed God's truth and follows his prophets' advice anyway." Notice that this same dynamic of "if God were REALLY trying to deceive, why would he TELL the people?!" is operative in ALL of the OTHER CASES we have seen!

[Edited on December 27, 2005 at 8:47 PM. Reason : .]

12/27/2005 8:44:38 PM

next you're gonna tell us that all the stars are equi-distant from earth, and that they're just different sizes

12/27/2005 8:48:32 PM

where is that from, because i stopped reading after they said there is no deception in ezekiel

12/27/2005 8:49:11 PM

you have to continue to read in order to understand how there is no deception in Ezekiel. You can stick your fingers in yours ears and scream, "la la la i'm not listening to you," but that doesn't make you right. If you are going to claim to be a biblical scholar, at least understand apologetics and disputation. Otherwise you end up looking like a fool.


http://www.christian-thinktank.com/godlies.html

[Edited on December 27, 2005 at 8:52 PM. Reason : .]

12/27/2005 8:50:53 PM

how is planting false profits not deceiving?
even your link says he does that
wouldnt it be the same as planting false fossils and artifacts?

12/27/2005 8:51:49 PM

1. he never planted false prophets. He said he would if people didn't change their ways. Saying and doing are two different things. and if he did deceive then he would violate his own rules* and cease being god

2. The difference between the two is that God is telling the people he will do that. As far as I know, God has never told anyone that he planted false fossils and shit.



*

Quote :

"PR 30:5 Every word of God proves true. "

Quote :

"PR 30:5 - Every word of God is flawless; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him."

Quote :

" I Sam 15.29: He who is the Glory of Israel does not lie..."

Quote :

"Heb 6.18: God did this so that, by two unchangeable things in which it is impossible for God to lie, we who have fled to take hold of the hope offered to us may be greatly encouraged. "

Quote :

"Titus 1.2: a faith and knowledge resting on the hope of eternal life, which God, who does not lie, promised before the beginning of time, "

[Edited on December 27, 2005 at 8:55 PM. Reason : .]

12/27/2005 8:53:24 PM