Anyone interested in starting a flying club at NCSU?

1/18/2006 11:49:45 AM

i already know how to fly

ive played all the sims

1/18/2006 11:55:47 AM

are terrorists allowed? i know how to fly into buildings

1/18/2006 11:58:49 AM

terrorists are certainly allowed

i'm just looking for interest

1/18/2006 12:01:07 PM

I would be interested in starting a flying club. Where/what are you trying to fly?

1/18/2006 12:54:09 PM

Meet at the top of DH Hill tomorrow evening!

1/18/2006 4:09:50 PM

I'd be all about it if I hadn't graduated 2 years ago...I have 55 hous of flight experience...mostly in Cessna 172s and 152s...

Do you guys have any idea of how expensive it is to fly?...cause if you don't, you better check it out b/c it isn't even in the neighborhood of cheap.

1/18/2006 4:18:55 PM

i bet it would be doable

basically a revolving-door co-ownership between lots of people

1/18/2006 6:53:11 PM

i would do it for sure....im trying to find a club or somthing, where i can do my ground school this semester anyways

1/18/2006 6:56:41 PM

aint gonna happen, same liability issues that killed the attempted car club.

1/18/2006 7:00:44 PM

it can and is done. just like duke said it would be a non-profit co owenership situation. the best example is at georgia tech check out their website

http://cyberbuzz.gatech.edu/yjfc/

they command 4 planes that are co owned and have a staff of instructors that fly for cheap

1/19/2006 2:50:53 PM

the end goal would be to acquire a cessna 172 (or similar) that each person in the club would be owner of
anyone at ncsu would be eligible to join and could either learn to fly or use it to get higher certificate ratings

I have a vfr rating and would like to move up to instrument, but with the cost of going it alone, I would really just be happy to get in some time

1/19/2006 2:58:56 PM

^good luck...I'd love to see it happen, but I don't see it happening unless you have a CFI in the group to start it up....A IFR Cessna 172 isn't cheap...Id say around $75k for an older one.

1/19/2006 4:27:13 PM

no one said it would be cheap or easy. i don't expect it to be. i know how much it costs b/c i shelled out $5500 to get my private pilot rating. i'm just looking for a few interested people who are willing to charter the club and start looking in to ways to raise $. perhaps from past AE alumni or someone in aviation, or someone with a passion for flying. i dont think anyone is planning to purchase time in a lear jet or something outrageous. even if we could find an fbo to offer a plane at a discounted rate and an instructor to fly for a little less, then that is at least a start.

1/20/2006 10:02:06 AM

i know how to fly

http://www.aircraftbrowser.com/1980%20Cessna%20172RG%20Cutlass%20(N9523B).htm

[Edited on January 20, 2006 at 12:19 PM. Reason : plane]

[Edited on January 20, 2006 at 12:20 PM. Reason : .]

1/20/2006 12:13:01 PM

T Rex where did you go to learn?

1/20/2006 2:50:44 PM

Being an airplane owner, I can state that owning a plane is very expensive. However, my plane is in a 4 person partnership, and it minimizes the costs. But just to give you a rundown. We have spent $1700 in maintenance in the last 2 months, and our annual happens next week (~$2300). Of course, 2 months ago, we paid our yearly insurance dues of $1700 (mostly higher time pilots). Tie down at Raleigh Durham is $55 a month, and a hanger is $400. 100LL is running $4.50 a gallon at RDU (going up), and your 172 will burn 8 an hour. You should put $10-15 an engine hour in a reserve fund to handle the major engine overhaul, and more per hour if you want things like avionics to be paid out from a general fund. This is for a retractable gear Piper Arrow. A 172 would be much less expensive.

A good 172 with good avionics, lower time engine, and good shape (we are talking late 1970s and early 1980s) should run you $50-$70k.

An average 172 cruises around 110 knots. So, times to the following destinations:
Washington DC: 1 hour 45 mins.
Ocracoke: 1 hour 25 mins.
Charleston 1 hour 55 mins.
Hilton head 2 hours 30 mins.

Of course, these times are assuming no head wind. These are one way. Give you an idea of what it actually costs to do something other than boring holes in the sky.


There are already flying clubs available in the area. Wings of Carolina (Sanford) and Wake County Flying Club. Even in a properly rigged club, you probably wont get to fly for anything cheaper than $70 an hour. I am not discouraging this, and its cool this is being discussed, but there is a shit ton of work to be done.

I am not an expert, but if you have questions, feel free to ask me.


[Edited on January 20, 2006 at 5:31 PM. Reason : .]

1/20/2006 5:22:33 PM

http://www.chapelhillflyingclub.org/
http://www.localweb.com/wcfc/

Those are the addresses for the two local flying club. I think Wings of Carolina is bloated although it does have the best selection of aircraft. Wake County Flying Club is more ideal (plus its at RDU), but good luck getting someone to call you back.

P.S. Dont waste your time even thinking about buying a 152 if you are having a single aircraft.

[Edited on January 20, 2006 at 5:57 PM. Reason : .]

1/20/2006 5:55:17 PM

a 150 (not 152) can be had for mid to high teens, and most of them still have the engine that actually prefers 80 octane fuel. prob wouldn't be too tough to get it certified to run automotive gas.

but it's slow as shit, you won't find one IFR equipped, only two seats (and even then, you can't carry ANYTHING with full tanks, and might not even get that), and old. it might be a starting point, though.


also, the costs of flying at a small facility slightly out of town will be substantially less than CarZin's figures for RDU (100LL, for example, is $3.68/gallon at K82J where I fly). Ditto for a non-complex airplane. You might also be able to squeeze NCSU for some funds if you get granted club status. It sure wouldn't be the dumbest club they've ever funded.

you might find something cheaper than $70/hour, but not much. I know a place here in FL that rents a C-150 for like $50-55/hour (not a club rate or anything, either). They also have a Mooney 201 for $130/hour.



If you actually get it going, I'd get an IFR equipped C-172 if you can swing it. It would be good for taking trips and getting instrument ratings. Personally, my second addition to the fleet would probably be a Citabria (something like a RV would be sweet, too, because they're a lot faster if you wanted to take it on a XC, but I suspect that certified aircraft would be the order of the day in terms of liability issues), as a tailwheel and aerobatics trainer, but my personal interests/biases are probably coming through, here. A complex airplane will cost a lot more to buy, operate, and insure.

1/20/2006 6:34:53 PM

Where is K82J?

In the RDU area, there is no gas less than 4 a gallon (in my quick check). Only exception would be Lake Ridge, and it will be difficult to get club insurance on a 3000 ft grass strip.

Gas around here sucks. I fill up in Suffolk (VA) or LVL (Lawrenceville) prior to coming back from the north, and EYF (Elizabethtown) or CPC from the south. It is below $3 a gallon at EYF and CPC. RDU just charges a fortune for everything.

[Edited on January 20, 2006 at 6:54 PM. Reason : .]

1/20/2006 6:49:41 PM

get some engineers together and build your own damn plane

1/20/2006 6:57:18 PM

^^pensacola, FL

^people do it all the time

1/20/2006 7:04:11 PM

panthersny, i did my flight training at HBI in asheboro starting in high school and finishing my first year of college

as far as funds go, i realize that this club would be an ambitious venture. carzin, thanks for the advice, i'm sure ill need to hit you up for advice soon if we do get things going.

i would like to get together to meet and discuss some of the logistics of chartering this club with some of you. send me a pm or post a message if you have a suggestion for a place and time to meet.

1/20/2006 7:50:26 PM

hey CarZin, is that Arrow the first airplane you've been an owner of?

I want to buy part-ownership in something like an RV-4 (or maybe something else along those lines, or a 2-seat aerobatic biplane). not right away--more like 2-3 years down the road. I just wonder how much it'll cost. Obviously a lot less than an Arrow (although insurance will still suck for an experimental taildragger), but I have no idea how MUCH less.

1/20/2006 8:03:11 PM

yeah. first airplane. very happy with the decision so far.

1/20/2006 8:25:23 PM

yeah, i know i'll be able to afford 1/4 of what it costs to initially buy the thing, and I know I'll be able to swing the gas, but I don't know how much everything else will amount to (mostly maintainance/repair and insurance costs). I'm sure most of it will be far less than your Arrow.

is it really much cheaper than renting, in your case? i figured you'd have to really fly a lot to make it worthwhile. My situation is a little different...you can't really rent anything like I want.

[Edited on January 20, 2006 at 8:45 PM. Reason : asfdasfd]

1/20/2006 8:44:54 PM

I have a friend at State who flies. He recently got his license.

1/20/2006 9:27:34 PM

Well, costs are really relative to the airplane. I have not passed the one year mark. In the past year, we needed a fix on the audio panel ($290), one oil change with a bad battery ($200), problem with the Nav lights ($650), new alternator ($700+). We are installing in annual an air oil seperator ($360+install), new tubes for the tires ($?), new lamp ($50), and getting what hopes to be an uneventful annual for around $2000. We have planned a new HID lighting system ($800) in the next year. In the next 2 years we are putting in a new engine (IO360 after install around $25k) and probably a new avionics package ($10-15k). We had two main cracked ribs found on the plane 2 and 3 years ago ($2500 each time). We will probably need to replace the wing walk in the next year or so ($1500).

All this is sickening. Anyway, most of the money you put into improvements go to the value of the plane. The amount that transfers to the plane can vary, but for example, the engine will add about 20k value, the avionics package will add almost 1/1 dollar value. But the maintenance items just absorb cash.

And this is a very well maintained aircraft. They are just expensive as shit.

So, cheaper to own than rent? Unlikely. However, having your own plane is more practical in many ways to renting since you arent paying ridiculous by the hour rental rate. The plane costs me about $55 an hour to operate, when I couldnt get a 172 going 30 knots slower for that much. Many many benefits. Also many many downers. I am flying about 150 hours a year. No telling what the per hour cost is for me. I really dont want to know if you add in all the extra shit.

[Edited on January 20, 2006 at 9:28 PM. Reason : .]

1/20/2006 9:27:41 PM

still trying to drum up support for a flying club. if anyone has any interest or knows anyone who might be interested please say so or send me a pm

also, if you have any other suggestions on how to find people who whould be interested, let me know

1/23/2006 1:54:31 PM

is there even a flight school around here?

my sister is the one who taught me how to fly she's a commercial pilot and the first student to solo out of concord regional and the first girl to fly out of the airport.

1/23/2006 2:03:23 PM

There are a lot of flying schools around here. One at RDU (Flightgest), one at Louisburg (First in Flight), one at Lake Ridge (Durham- Empire Aviation- where I got my PPL), one or two in Sanford.

My recommendations to start a club would be to start putting up flyers at all the local FBOs. Quite honestly, this is a huge task. What would make your club attractive to me (if I didnt own) is if I could rent a bigger faster plane affordable (think Cessna 182). Will be more to insure, but a 182 is not out of reach.

[Edited on January 23, 2006 at 3:14 PM. Reason : .]

1/23/2006 3:10:51 PM