so what is this religion really about? i've never been to a catholic service, but i heard its quite different than any other "christian" churches. i'm just looking for a basic rundown of the religion and what they believe in.

some things i really want to know about:
why do you baptise babies at birth?
what exactly is a pope?
the bible has verses that say repetitive prayer is not the way to pray, yet you have things like the rosary?

1/27/2006 9:53:41 AM

its all about worshiping idols

1/27/2006 9:57:43 AM

does the statue of mary count as an idol?

1/27/2006 9:58:51 AM

http://www.google.com

1/27/2006 10:01:58 AM

fuck that shit, i want real catholics giving me this information

1/27/2006 10:06:08 AM

http://www.vatican.va/phome_en.htm

1/27/2006 10:07:11 AM

Wikipedia solves all problems.

1/27/2006 10:35:29 AM

Quote :

"fuck that shit, i want real catholics giving me this information"

yep....let them explain it, I doubt they can

1/27/2006 10:41:37 AM

He wants real catholics to explain it so that he can ask follow up questions in a condescending manner.
I can see this thread going badly real quicklike.

1/27/2006 10:43:46 AM

I take it you're talking about the Roman Catholic church

Quote :

"Catholicism is a monotheistic religion. Together with Judaism and Islam and some interpretations of Hinduism, it believes that God is one, eternal, all-powerful, all-knowing and omnipresent. God exists as distinct from and prior to his creation, that is, everything which is not God, and which depends directly on him for existence, and yet is still present intimately in his creation. Faith in God's existence is the most fundamental Catholic belief, and in the First Vatican Council the Church has taught that, while by the natural light of human reason God can be known in his works as origin and end of all created things (cf. Romans 1:20), God has also chosen to reveal himself and his will supernaturally in the ways indicated in the Letter to the Hebrews 1:1-2. Catholicism is also a Trinitarian religion. As opposed to other monotheistic religions, it believes that while God is one in nature, essence, and being, this one God exists in three divine persons, each identical with the one essence, whose only distinctions are in their relations to one another: The Father's relationship to the Son, the Son's relationship to the Father, and the relations of both to the Holy Spirit, constitute the one God as a Trinity. A Catholic Christian is baptized in the name (singular) of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit - not three gods, but One God subsisting in three Persons. The faith of the Church and of the individual Christian is based on a relationship with these three Persons of the one God. The Catholic Church believes that God has revealed himself to humanity as Father to his only-begotten Son, who is in an eternal relationship with the Father: "No one knows the Son except the Father, just as no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him" (Matthew 11:27). Catholics believe that God the Son, the second of the three Persons of God, became incarnate as Jesus Christ, a human being, born of the Virgin Mary. He remained truly divine and was at the same time truly human. In what he said, and by how he lived, he taught us how to live, and revealed God as Love, the giver of unmerited favours or Graces. After Jesus' crucifixion and resurrection, his followers, foremost among them the Apostles, spread more and more extensively their faith in Jesus Christ with a vigour that they attributed to the Holy Spirit, the third of the three Persons of God, sent upon them by Jesus."

1/27/2006 10:45:59 AM

Quote :

"He wants real catholics to explain it so that he can ask follow up questions in a condescending manner. I can see this thread going badly real quicklike."

yeah I have to agree witht that too

1/27/2006 10:47:05 AM

Quote :

"why do you baptise babies at birth?"

catholics believe that all people are born with original sin. in the catholic church, baptism is the 1st holy sacrament to be received and the purpose of it is to cleanse the person of original sin and actual sin. it is characteristically done as an infant but doesnt have to be; adults can be baptised as well. it is also a sign of belonging to the catholic church and of future acceptance of the doctrines.

Quote :

"what exactly is a pope?"

a pope is the central leader of the church. he is the final human authority for doctrines and beliefs. it is accepted in the church that after the pope the only higher authority is God himself.

Quote :

"the bible has verses that say repetitive prayer is not the way to pray, yet you have things like the rosary?"

the rosary is meant to only to help keep in memory certain principle mysteries and occurrences in the history of our own salvation. in addition, it is meant to thank and praise God for those events. it is not really a prayer but rather more of a recitation only.

[Edited on January 27, 2006 at 10:51 AM. Reason : yes i am roman catholic]

1/27/2006 10:50:40 AM

^ now, not to be rude, just inquisitive. I was raised presbyterian and am atheist by practice.

I wish to honestly know your stand on ideas like intelligent design and refutation of scientific principles

1/27/2006 10:54:21 AM

the Catholic church accepted evolution a while ago (on the condition that the process was seen as the hand of God)

I was raised Catholic and am atheist/agnostic

1/27/2006 10:59:43 AM

i personally do not hold a lot of the church's views on things like abortion, God creating the earth in 7 days and others. i do not know much about intelligent design so i can not answer where i stand or where the church does. but in terms of scientific reasoning, there has always been a clash between science and religion and there always will be. i prefer tangible evidence over beliefs anyday, that is just my personality and my train of thinking. but take for example, the creation of the earth. i believe in the big bang theory among other scientific theories but at the same time i believe God still had a hand in the creation of the earth. so i have a mixture of science and religion, not just 1 or the other.

1/27/2006 11:00:22 AM

my mom alawys said that 7 days might not be the same to god as it is to us. that being explanation for earth created in 7 days


not how I see it, but at least it's an attempt to meld the two

and while I don't feel religion has a place in logic, I feel it has a steadfast place in human nature.

1/27/2006 11:07:36 AM

o i certainly agree with u that religion is important to human nature. but as for logic, it does a terrible job at stayin consistent or makin sense..lol. a lot of the stories in the bible i do not believe in where some catholics will. like for example, the adam and eve story i do not believe in, i think it is merely a story and that is it. as a side not, do i believe Jesus Christ existed? yes. do i believe he performed miracles? yes i do.

[Edited on January 27, 2006 at 11:10 AM. Reason : .]

1/27/2006 11:10:25 AM

well who is to say that the stories weren't transmitted as .....let's say fables, to the general population by a deity.

then the people wrote them down as fact, missing the point.

i suppose there are limitless hypotheses as to how and why

but translation numerous times through the centuries leads to miscommunication. I seem to remember that the bible says the world is to be worshipped, not inside, but outside

1/27/2006 11:13:45 AM

Quote :

"well who is to say that the stories weren't transmitted as .....let's say fables, to the general population by a deity."

anythin is possible but i do not personally agree with that idea. i think certain writings were included into the compilation of the complete bible from high clergy for the methods of teachin a lesson or conveyin a certain point (like a fable). but i do not agree with some deity handing them down to the general populace.

1/27/2006 11:19:25 AM

Quote :

"why do you baptise babies at birth? "

They do this in the Methodist church too. I was baptised Catholic, but went to a Methodist church for 15 years. It happened about once a month.

Quote :

"the bible has verses that say repetitive prayer is not the way to pray, yet you have things like the rosary? "

So I guess saying The Lord's Prayer every Sunday isn't the way to go?

Quote :

"my mom alawys said that 7 days might not be the same to god as it is to us. that being explanation for earth created in 7 days"

In Hebrew text, they used "yom" instead of days. According to many scholars, yom can be an unspecified amount of time, which is what I believe. I'll go with the millions or billions of years it took to get what we have today instead of 6000 years, and just 7 days.

[Edited on January 27, 2006 at 11:36 AM. Reason : wrap it up]

1/27/2006 11:34:15 AM

I never would have thought that salisburyboy would have the presence of mind to have a backup alias and a completely different manner of writing.

1/27/2006 12:07:07 PM

Paging Wolfpack2K...

1/27/2006 12:16:37 PM

^



[Edited on January 27, 2006 at 12:33 PM. Reason : ]

1/27/2006 12:33:02 PM

it figures that guy would be a Cyclops fan


and i find it funny he is working to end the discrimination against men

1/27/2006 12:37:37 PM

Hahahahahahahahah Cyclops is such a dick.

And in Marvel 1602 the Catholic church tries to exterminate the mutants.

[Edited on January 27, 2006 at 12:53 PM. Reason : asdf]

1/27/2006 12:52:49 PM

I bet his favorite Ninja Turtle was Leonardo

1/27/2006 1:04:30 PM

1/27/2006 1:10:15 PM

haha he likes the squarest x-man

1/27/2006 1:39:03 PM

Jean-Grey had an abortion, and Cyclops DIDNT EVEN CARE

1/27/2006 1:39:43 PM

That's because it was Gambit's child

1/27/2006 3:43:17 PM

ADULTERY.

1/27/2006 4:08:02 PM

wait

what?

jean grey had an abortion?

did she do it herself with her mind?

1/27/2006 4:19:44 PM

maybe the kid fought back w/mind powers so she just scrambled him with a hanger.

1/27/2006 4:24:08 PM

Quote :

"why do you baptise babies at birth? what exactly is a pope? the bible has verses that say repetitive prayer is not the way to pray, yet you have things like the rosary? "

1. It is written, "Amen, amen I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God." (St. John, 3:5). Therefore, it would be cruel not to baptize children at birth - because what happens if they die very young?

2. The Pope is the head of the College of Bishops, in other words, he is the chief bishop. The first person to fill the office of chief bishop was Peter, and so we say that Peter was the first Pope. (The term "pope" came to be used to speak of the chief bishop later, it is a familiar term for "Papa" which of course means father.) As the chief bishop, the Pope is God's representative upon earth, which is why he is called "Vicar (viceroy, representative) of Christ."

3. The Bible does not condemn all repetition in prayer. Indeed, it is written that the angels repeat their praises to God: "And they cried one to another, and said: 'Holy, holy, holy, the Lord God of hosts, and all the earth is full of His Glory.'" Further, think of prayer as an expression of love for God. What father wants to hear "I love you" from his child only once and then never again?

the Bible condemns vain repetition. That is inappropriate - vain repetition. If someone just says their Rosary to be saying it, they are doing it wrong. In the Rosary, you are supposed to be meditating on the relevant Bible passages as you are saying the prayers. The Rosary is a scriptural journey through the Gospel.

1/27/2006 4:43:17 PM

Sainted.

1/27/2006 4:50:44 PM

Quote :

"it would be cruel not to baptize children at birth - because what happens if they die very young?"

Didn't the church just get rid of limbo?

1/27/2006 9:58:44 PM

Limbo is one of the dumbest ideas ever conceived by man.

It's a stupid literal interpretation of the Bible on top of an more stupid literal translation of the Bible.

1/27/2006 10:58:54 PM

Quote :

"my mom alawys said that 7 days might not be the same to god as it is to us. that being explanation for earth created in 7 days"

It's an interesting insight your mom had. I think that this is likely part of understanding
the account in Genesis from a modern scientific perspective. I don't think the scriptures are incorrect,
the story in Genesis is the most accurate description of the creation event that man could understand
without the langauge of modern physics. Of course, the point of Genesis was not to give an entire
account of everything that happened during the creation of our universe. Rather, the point was to
explain the role that God had in the creation and the position of man in the universe. It's fun to try
to go beyond that but I think it's invariably speculative ( Just like any theory of origins, BB, steady-state,M-theory cosmologies, giant turtle on which we reside, you pick...).

Quote :

"In Hebrew text, they used "yom" instead of days. According to many scholars, yom can be an unspecified amount of time, which is what I believe. I'll go with the millions or billions of years it took to get what we have today instead of 6000 years, and just 7 days."

many other scholars would disagree, if you have a few hours read,

http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs/4204tj_v5n1.asp

however, it doesn't really matter in view of what we've learned in the past century or so from relativity. Time need not be absolute. It is entirely possible that the creation event could have taken
literally 6 days from one frame of reference and billions of years in another frame.

Believe it or not, there is even a theory of cosmology based on this idea, you might read "Starlight and Time" by Humphries I think. In that book he suggests a model of cosmology (the universe as a whole) that is based on the whitehole solution in general relativity. His model has different frames
experience times, basically there was a frame which experienced 6 days whereas other regions of the cosmos experienced billions of years. To my knowledge, his model is the most sophisticated "creationist" cosmology. It replaced the earlier idea of "C-decay" ( the idea that the speed of light, as well as other constants, has been decaying exponentially since the creation event, thus explaining
how we can see distant star light among other things ) which has fallen into disfavor in creationist
circles because the statistics it was based on do not seem to bear a more careful analysis. Sufficient
to say creationist cosmology is in it's infancy at the present time.

1/27/2006 11:33:25 PM

So, if you ever needed more proof that this whole religion thing is ridiculous, look no further than institutions like the Catholic Church. Since that which they hold true on earth, god will hold true in heaven, they can make changes to anything they want about the religion and it will be ok. Leaving aside how frightening that idea is in and of itself (crazy pope one day decides to make the slaughter of homosexuals ok, or something), let's examine one silly (but less harmful) example.

The church has decided to http://www.catholic.org/international/international_story.php?id=17835

get rid of the idea of limbo</a>, which is where unbaptized babies and people who have never learned of the one true god or his son Jesus go when they die.

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051229/LIFESTYLE04/512290316/1041/LIFESTYLE

Why did they decide to get rid of this idea?</a>

Quote :

"The church is growing most in poor places like Africa and Asia where infant mortality remains high. It does not hurt the church's future if an African mother who has lost a baby can receive more hopeful news from her priest in 2005 than, say, an Italian mother did 100 years ago."

I see. They couldn't, maybe, recommend birth control or donate more money for medical needs, so instead, they just got rid of the universe of nothingness that those babies would have gone to. I guess that means the go to heaven now... That's a relief.

How does the church justify this change?

Quote :

"Many Catholics grew up thinking limbo – the place where babies who have died without baptism spend eternity in a state of "natural happiness" but not in the presence of God – was part of Catholic tradition. Instead, it was a hypothesis – a theory held out as a possible way to balance the Christian belief in the necessity of baptism with belief in God's mercy. "

I see. A theory. And, apparently, different popes believed different things.

Quote :

"Redemptorist Father Tony Kelly, an Australian member of the commission, told Catholic News Service "the limbo hypothesis was the common teaching of the church until the 1950s. In the past 50 years, it was just quietly dropped. ... A conviction that babies who died without baptism go to heaven was not something promoted only by people who want to believe that God saves everyone no matter what they do. Pope John Paul II believed it. And so does Pope Benedict. "

Well, I hope this makes some things clear for you... personally, I'm just more confused now.

[Edited on January 28, 2006 at 12:09 AM. Reason : ,]

1/28/2006 12:08:52 AM

Yeah the limbo abolishment did crack me up. One second, millions of babies are condemned to Limbo. The next second, Limbo is no longer there. I guess Limbo was ran out of business. (probably by Wal-Mart, since many believe that this would probably be a future site for them).

1/28/2006 12:26:30 AM

Limbo has never been a formal teaching of the Church. It was really a proposal of St. Augustine and other theosophers to try and explain about children who die without baptism of water. It must not be confused with a teaching of the Church. The Church never "abolished" Limbo, it merely clarified that Limbo is not a part of Catholic doctrine.

See http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09256a.htm

Quote :

"we must not confound St. Augustine's private authority with the infallible authority of the Catholic Church;"

We don't know infallibly what happens to those who die without baptism; as the Catechism states, we simply entrust their souls to the Mercy of God.

[Edited on January 28, 2006 at 2:46 AM. Reason : add]

1/28/2006 2:45:35 AM

Quote :

""He wants real catholics to explain it so that he can ask follow up questions in a condescending manner. I can see this thread going badly real quicklike.""

I agree.

College. Where we learn to become open-minded and accepting of other peoples' cultures.

1/28/2006 11:02:07 AM

you can be tolerant and still critical. i would never dream of forcing people not to practice their religions, but i'm still going to crack on them

1/28/2006 11:18:17 AM

10 years of catholic schools- meh

if you dont beleive in every major beleif of the catholic church you are not catholic. you cannot pick and choose what parts of catholicism you will agree with and i see alot of that in this thread. i realized i wasnt catholic when i learned this a few years back.

here are some things many people may not know about. theyre all in the cathecism(sp)

-supporting anyone or anything that destroys life
-not beleiving that once blessed the bread and wine becomes the actual body and blood of christ
-masterbation
-birth control
-condems
-any type of sexual arousal that doesnt involve you and your spouse in the natural position
-supporting a canidate that doesnt do is job following every rule of catholicism

1/28/2006 11:19:20 AM

did the church officially declare that limbo doesn't exist/never existed?
the articles above merely said they were preparing a statement, and the article only seemed relevant to unbaptised babies.
i was pretty sure there were other people in limbo, such as those who died before the existence of christ.

1/28/2006 5:46:50 PM

Well there was never a time "before the existence of Christ." But for people who died before His sacrifice, yes they did go to a place that I guess you could describe as "limbo" - it is called "hell" in the Apostle's Creed, but of course we need to separate that from the hell of the damned, from which there is no exit.

The Catechism does state that we entrust the souls of those who died without baptism through no fault of their own, simply unto the Mercy of God.

1/28/2006 6:08:34 PM

given this

Quote :

"He wants real catholics to explain it so that he can ask follow up questions in a condescending manner. I can see this thread going badly real quicklike."

im surprised no one has posted this then

Quote :

"Hi. You're probably new to the Wolf Web. In fact, I'm willing to bet you're new to college in general. It's an exciting time, isn't it? I'm sure that you have been exposed to many ideas and perspectives you'd never realized existed, and you're just bursting with enthusiasm at the thought of sharing a few ideas of your own with your peers now that you find yourself in an academic environment that seems perfectly suited to such an exchange. Why don't we go a little further? Odds are you consider yourself very intelligent. In fact, you're probably so intelligent that you've figured out all the quirks and kinks of organized religion--or at least Christianity. Yeah, that's it, isn't it? You were probably raised in a Christian household and resent that upbringing for limiting your personal freedoms, so it's only natural that you'd seek to undermine Christ's teachings and save others from having such a faulty belief system for their own good. Pretty cool of you, isn't it? You've really got it together. FUCK YOU YOU STUPID FUCKING FAGGOT COLLEGE KID LET ME TELL YOU A SECRET NONE OF YOUR THOUGHTS ON RELIGION ARE RADICAL OR EVEN THOUGHT-PROVOKING IT'S NO SECRET YOU GOT THEM OFF A FUCKING WEBSITE WE'VE ALL READ THE PROSELYTIZER QUESTIONNAIRE TOO NOTHING YOU CAN SAY IS GOING TO LEND A FRESH OUTLOOK DO YOU EVEN UNDERSTAND THAT FOR SEVERAL FUCKING CENTURIES NOW SOME OF THE MOST EDUCATED PEOPLE IN THE ANNALS OF HUMAN HISTORY HAVE DEVOTED THEIR LIVES TO ANSWERING DEEPER THEOLOGICAL CONCERNS THAN YOUR PETTY BULLSHIT ABOUT THE DISCREPANCIES IN THE GENEALOGIES OF CHRIST IN THE GOSPELS? I MEAN HOLY FUCK DO YOU THINK YOU'RE THE ONLY COCKSUCKER WHO EVER NOTICED THAT OR SOMETHING?! WAKE THE FUCK UP YOU'RE STILL JUST A STUPID KID AND WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO DO IS SHAMEFUL INCONSIDERATE AND DISRESPECTFUL BECAUSE MAYBE YOU'RE TOO MUCH OF A PUSSY TO LIVE ACCORDING TO A STRICT MORAL CODE AND MAYBE YOU'RE TOO MUCH OF A PUSSY TO ACTUALLY TRY AND DEVELOP A STRONG, HONORABLE CHARACTER BUT THAT DOESN'T MAKE IT RIGHT FOR YOU TO ATTACK MILLIONS UPON MILLIONS OF PEOPLE NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU TRY TO PLAY THE VICTIM TALKING ABOUT HOW THEY "FORCE THEIR BELIEFS" ON YOU BY HANDING OUT A FUCKING PAMPHLET I MEAN HOLY FUCKING CHRIST WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO DO IS TEN TIMES WORSE GET OVER YOURSELF ALREADY THIS REBELLION AGAINST MOMMY AND DADDY ISN'T IMPRESSING ANYONE WE'VE SEEN IT BEFORE YOU ARE NOT THE FIRST YOU ARE NOT EVEN REMARKABLE STOP ARGUING WITH GARY HE IS MAKING A FOOL OF YOU I SWEAR UPON THE BODY AND BLOOD OF THE PIERCED FUCKING JEW KING THAT IF YOU PULL THIS SALISBURYBOY, SYLVERSHADOW KIND OF SHIT ON ME YOU WORTHLESS WICCAN PANTYSTAIN I WILL SPLIT THE TENDER TISSUES OF YOUR WEEPING ASSHOLE WITH A HARDCOVER EDITION OF THE NEW INTERNATIONAL VERSION OF THE HOLY FUCKING BIBLE YOU THINK YOU'RE SO FUCKING SMART I'D LIKE TO SEE YOU DO THE SAME SHIT WITH ANY RELIGION BESIDES CHRISTIANITY OR JUDAISM WITH SOME BOOK BESIDES THE BIBLE OR THE TORAH YOU AIDS-FELCHING CUM FLAKE SO PUT THAT IN YOUR FUCKING PIPE YOU JUST BOUGHT FROM BUDDHA'S BELLY THE FIRST WEEKEND YOU WERE UP HERE AND SMOKE IT YOU FUCKING FAGGOT COLLEGE KID and that's my word. -FroshKiller"

1/28/2006 6:14:57 PM

^that guy is in more dire need of a blowjob than any white man in history


(GMV-Robin Williams)

seriously, people have spent more time wiping their ass than he spent coming up with that witty commentary

1/28/2006 10:00:24 PM

Quote :

"He wants real catholics to explain it so that he can ask follow up questions in a condescending manner. I can see this thread going badly real quicklike."

1/28/2006 10:54:07 PM

set em up

1/29/2006 1:11:54 AM