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ACC meets with BC-Duke refsposted: Friday, February 3, 2006 | Feedback

The ACC reviewed a number of calls from the Duke-Boston College game Wednesday night, including the final drive by the Eagles' Tyrese Rice in Duke's 83-81 victory at Conte Forum.

ACC coordinator of officials John Clougherty said he spoke with Boston College coach Al Skinner, but he wouldn't say what he said to Skinner regarding whether the correct call was made on Rice's drive with nine seconds remaining. Clougherty declined to comment on whether he also spoke with Duke coach Mike Krzyzewski.


With the Eagles down by three, Rice drove on Duke's Shelden Williams. Contact occurred but no call was made. Skinner thought a foul should have been called. So did Rice.


"We looked at that play, replayed it, replayed it," Clougherty said.


And?


He wouldn't say.


"I visited at length with the officials after the game," Clougherty said.


And??????


"I tell all of our referees whether we make [the call] or don't make [it], we have to be as accurate as we can be [on those last plays]," Clougherty said. "We don't get another chance after the last play. BC doesn't get another chance after that last play. Whether we blow the whistle or not on that last play, we have to be accurate. Whether it's that game or the Georgia Tech-Virginia Tech game the day before [which was decided on an over-the-back call on the Yellow Jackets, negating a basket], we have to be accurate. That was a game-ending call."


Virginia Tech won the game at the other end on Deron Washington's free throw with five-tenths of a second left.


"I'm not saying either call was right or wrong, but we have to be right on those calls," Clougherty said. "We don't have time to recover. BC would have gone to the line with a chance to go down by one."

Clougherty said he understands why BC was upset over the free-throw situation because of the discrepancy (37 attempts to 13), but he said that reaction is natural when you look at the stat sheet.



---This is two bullshit no calls on Duke in the last two games
this is going to have a big effect on the title race for the ACC, we might be sitting both with two losses going into the Maryland game today if the fucking refs didn't suck

[Edited on February 5, 2006 at 9:39 AM. Reason : cause i felt like it]

2/5/2006 9:37:15 AM

the duke-FSU game had a large discrepancy in free throws too.


I think it was 37-10 or 12(?) something like that.

2/5/2006 10:15:55 AM

Wake got called for 27 fouls to our 20 in the game on 1/21. We shot 43 free throws to their 25. Where is the conspiracy theory?????? Interesting

2/5/2006 11:01:25 AM

^this thread isnt saying shit about an anti-state conspiracy.

Its really never been anti-state...its pro-duke, pro-UNC shit like this.

2/5/2006 12:04:42 PM

and pro-Alabama

2/5/2006 12:16:56 PM

The fact that Clougherty even met with the officials after this game acknowledges that something was wrong whether the refs in that game made the right call or not. Most end of game situations such as this warrent a review of the last play to make sure the right call is made. I don't expect to see any change in how these officials manage the game what so ever.

2/5/2006 12:22:48 PM

if they reviewed all of the BS that went on in the duke fsu game, it would have taken 9 hours for the game to finish

2/5/2006 12:27:27 PM

Quote :

""I'm not saying either call was right or wrong, but we have to be right on those calls," Clougherty said."

that's all he really has to say

2/5/2006 1:20:09 PM

the officials that called that mystery technical on Johnson in the FSU game were suspended.

i, and other Duke fans, agree that that was a really really bad/pointless call, but this seems like a pretty dumb way to handle it. just adds more flame to the "Duke gets all the calls" fire

2/6/2006 10:48:40 AM

at least someone is taking notice

2/6/2006 10:50:56 AM

obviously this was posted on a Duke-biased board, but i still think anyone against duke in this argument should read it. great article

http://mb18.scout.com/fdevilsdenfrm11.showMessage?topicID=59.topic

2/6/2006 10:54:59 AM

http://theacc.collegesports.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/020606aaa.html

2/6/2006 10:59:43 AM

Over the past two games Duke has taken 79 free throws to the opponents 25. That is fucking stupid. Also, can a Good Duke player foul out of a game? McRoberts had 4 fouls with at least ten minutes left in the game and Williams had four with at least 6 minutes left and SURPRISE, neither fouled out even though they are both extremely aggressive defensive players. I think the best thing that can happen to a Duke player is recieving his 4th foul, then he know he will not get called for another the rest of the game. (/rant)

2/6/2006 11:00:25 AM

Quote :

""If you compare FT differential with ACC records, Duke shows up above the ACC average just once in its top seven seasons _ in 2000 (although there’s no comparison for Duke’s 16-0 mark in 1999). The study did show that there may be something to Gary Williams’ constant griping. Maryland finished below the expected FT differential six times in the 10 years, including 1999, when a 13-3 team was at minus 39, and in 2000 when an 11-5 team was at minus 50. Those are the two most out-of-whack FT differential numbers in the study. So who was getting the calls, if not Duke or Maryland? Wake Forest is one team that has accumulated better FT numbers than its record would predict, especially in the last two years of the study. And while not covered in the study, the Deacons finished last year with the best FT differential in ACC play (plus 107), just ahead of UNC (plus 100) and well ahead of Duke (plus 73). But the one team that had the most consistently impressive numbers in the study was North Carolina, which surpassed its expected FT differential in the seven straight seasons. Here’s one interesting tidbit to chew on: over the last five seasons of the study, UNC and N.C. State had exactly the same 40-40 ACC record. UNC’s FT differential over that span was plus 168 ... N.C. State’s was minus 75. Maybe the era of “Carolina refs” is not dead. ""

2/6/2006 11:10:30 AM

^That doesn't mean that Duke has gotten two games virtually handed to them recently.

2/6/2006 11:19:15 AM

....

[Edited on February 6, 2006 at 11:21 AM. Reason : nm, i found it]

2/6/2006 11:20:38 AM

^^^ one of the many duke dick lovers on this board

[Edited on February 6, 2006 at 11:26 AM. Reason : ^]

2/6/2006 11:24:28 AM

i don't know, i agree that there were bad calls in both games, but the free throw discrepancy in the FSU game is harder to gage.. Duke was playing no defense on most of FSU's drives.. they were letting them take the open layups without much contention. if you watched the game you would have seen that. the only two bad calls that come to mind are the double technical (unforgiveable) and the ball that went off of shelden williams (dude did not get fouled, but it should have been FSU's ball. that was easy to see in replay but it probably wasn't clear in the moment, plus there were only two refs making that call)

2/6/2006 11:26:19 AM

^good stuff. Just find some statistical data and you'll have a great op. editorial....

2/6/2006 11:29:35 AM

Duke fans will make so many fucking lame excuses when they team is being burned

you guys know your team is dirty

2/6/2006 12:25:06 PM

is it just me, or can everyone see the 'In-siders' on ESPN today?

2/6/2006 12:27:02 PM

It's weird but its seems to only work for that one link on the BC-Duke article by Katz. I see it too and the rest of the articles posted on that particular page.

2/6/2006 12:32:18 PM

Quote :

"obviously this was posted on a Duke-biased board, but i still think anyone against duke in this argument should read it. great article"

Hahahhaha... The Devils Den. I've seen Ivy League Schools with easier 'admission' then that craphole. Seriously, what group of pompous assholes has an application review for a fucking message board..

V I wish I could see what that ass wrote but I'm not giving him the page view by clicking on it.

[Edited on February 6, 2006 at 12:34 PM. Reason : f]

2/6/2006 12:32:24 PM

Doyel on CBSsportsline references this today in his article

2/6/2006 12:32:35 PM

Aha, Ref crew from Duke/FSU suspended:

http://theacc.collegesports.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/020606aaa.html

too little, too late, imo. Duke already has at least 3 wins that should have been losses which were facilitated by the refereeing.

2/6/2006 12:35:17 PM

Krzyzewski is really good at working the refs. It's tacky and embarassing, but it can change the outcome of a game.

2/6/2006 12:37:02 PM

^^Still won't change anything in Duke's games though.

2/6/2006 12:40:02 PM

^^^I wonder what the response will be from the Dook apologists on that one. I really expect the UNC-Duke game to be really tightly called now. They know that they will have a nationally audience and this is still a hot issue. The sad thing is that this series never needs to be monitored closely as far as calls from the refs go, it will be the resulting games across the league from here on out.

[Edited on February 6, 2006 at 12:42 PM. Reason : .]

2/6/2006 12:41:37 PM

When people were complaining about the foul discrepancy (and officiating in general) after the BC-Duke game, Coach K said it has to do with Duke being more more of a presence down low and therefore drawing more shooting fouls. Local sports radio guys agreed with this and backed it up...

HOWEVER, when we played Duke we had twice as many points in the paint (like 56 to 28 or something ridiculous like that) yet Duke still had twice as many free throw attempts. Using the rior logic we should have been the ones with twice as many free throws, if anythign they should have at elast been equal. Its a fucking joke how Duke gets the calls.

I do think UNC is getting the game handed to them on a platter with this officiating crap happening just before their tipoff.

2/6/2006 1:08:42 PM

The worst thing about Duke is the insane amount of hand checking they get away with. That is a fucking foul, right? I maen, I know that all teams hand check during any given game, but Duke's whole defensive game plan is based on it. It is just a joke!

2/6/2006 1:21:14 PM

^^ They don't need the help.

Last season the refs nearly handed Carolina both their games against Duke.

2/6/2006 1:28:24 PM

its not as much about how many more freethrows duke gets than the other team...its the fact that they get almost ALL of the calls when theres under 5 min left in a game. I mean, its not the sole reason we keep playing Duke to a close game up until 5 or 6 min left the past few years, but for the most part, if u are going to beat Dook, u have to have a decent lead with under 3 min, cuz from then on out, any questionable call is going to go Dooks way, except for when they play UNC, then the refs usually call the game in the favor of whoever has the home court

FUCK DOOK

2/6/2006 1:30:19 PM

those refs got suspended

2/6/2006 1:43:05 PM

There are certain things that you can take to the bank when watching Duke play:

1) If JJ touches the ball and anyone even looks at him, it is a foul.
2) Sheldon Williams does not foul, if the refs do call a foul on him, it is a foul that helps duke such as his sorry ass getting beat and reaching out and grazing a jersey would be a foul to prevent the other team from getting an easy layup.
3) There is usually 1 foul a game called on a Duke 3 pointer because of a flop that Dickery and Melchionni take.
4) Under 4 minutes of the game fouls will only be called on the opposing team.
5) Sheldon Williams and Josh McRoberts are allowed to hang on the rim for better Sportscenter highlights.
6) Duke can go for a layup, maybe get grazed and its an and-one. The same thing can happen on the other end plus a body foul and the ref will make the little gator clap block sign with his hands.
7) Duke will go to the line at least 3 times the amount of their opponents.
8) Coach Kryshizzle can do things that 95 percent of the other coaches get technicals on and never ever get T'd up, because would you T up GOD?

More to come, tired of typing

2/6/2006 2:03:27 PM

^ gg

2/6/2006 2:09:41 PM

Ive also heard people explain the discrepancy with the fact that Dook is so aggressive....but that works both ways, if you are aggressive, you are going to commit fouls, theres no way around it. During the Dook-BC game, that toolbag Bob Harris (who is much more unbearable than Woody Durham) mentioned JJ only had 25 fouls in 21 games...there is no way a guy playing over 35 minutes a game should be getting only 1.2 fouls called on him per game.

2/6/2006 2:40:43 PM

well JJ does suck at D and gets burned a lot, so i'm not surprised his foul count is low.

[Edited on February 6, 2006 at 2:53 PM. Reason : and he's a pussy]

2/6/2006 2:53:29 PM

Well, in most of the photos that I see of JJ on the web, he is in the act of fouling

2/6/2006 3:12:35 PM

the refs for the FSU/duke game were just suspended

2/6/2006 5:34:52 PM

Quote :

"3) There is usually 1 foul a game called on a Duke 3 pointer because of a flop that Dickery and Melchionni take."

THIS cost us our game. Dockery wasn't touched by Bethel on that 3, misses the FT and then fuckin Melchionnnnnnnnni hits a damn 3. Game over.

Where are Hoggman and socrates now that the set of refs have been suspended? If that technical on Johnson isn't called, Duke prolly doesn't win since Johnson wouldn't foul out. Also Duke wouldn't have gotten the 2 FTs.

Good though that someone is noticing the bullshit in the ACC finally. I mean its only been goin on since Dean Smith started coaching 100 years ago.

2/6/2006 6:33:50 PM

^^ Yeah, they were hanging out with the Dell dude when he got arrested for pot so something had to be done.

[Edited on February 6, 2006 at 6:35 PM. Reason : ]

2/6/2006 6:34:38 PM

Quote :

"well JJ does suck at D and gets burned a lot, so i'm not surprised his foul count is low."

Funny thing, I actually brought up the low foul count to a Dook bandwagon rider I work with, and his response was Coach K says JJ is such a great defender....moron.

2/6/2006 7:06:42 PM

ask and ye shall receive

isnt 2 flagrant fouls an ejection anyway? or am i getting confused with football. johnson didnt do anything to get a tech but how can you give a guy a tech for getting in a guys face who is trying to hurt you on multiple occasions. imo no techs shouldve been called but anyone who gets 2 flagrants in one game is a goon and should be thrown out and think about transferring to temple.

and you guys act like both teams should shoot the same ammount of free throws every game and everytime a guy commits a foul a foul must be called on the other team to offset it.

and duke has always had foul trouble in recent years. i dont know what youre talking about. and even this year sheldons minutes have been limited by foul trouble.

also, all americans are gonna get the benefit of calls because refs often make anticipation errors (expecting guys to score/expecting guys to not foul). thats just reality. not just with duke, any team. duke just so happens to have 2 all americans.

2/6/2006 7:11:43 PM

Im right here. It shouldnt have been a technical. But to say that FSU would have won had he not fouled out at that point is just stupid. Hell I cant believe he last that long. The refs give Duke every call so I thought he would have fouled out in the first 2 minutes of the game. Actually, I believe the rule is that when a team plays Duke all their players start with 4 fouls and Duke is spotted 110 points.

2/6/2006 7:22:33 PM

^, ^^ Seems about right. Even after the referrees get suspended, the Duke Dick lovers still can't admit their wrong.

2/6/2006 7:24:12 PM

I like Duke because they are a winning team. It's essentially a guarantee to receive gratification when I cheer for them because most of the time they win their games! Of course, there's no justification for the loyalty of most of our fans, but that's okay, because everyone likes a winner and you can't argue against that!

I hold high hopes for our team, and us fans' high expectations are met most of the time. It's not that it's a no-brainer to cheer for Duke; it's that I, like many others cheer for them because it makes me feel like a winner to pull for the winning team!

We are never susceptible to scrutiny by critics with any sort of credibility. What are the chances of being correct in criticism when many people argue the same certain things! A lot of people are too negative! How could you not like a winning team when everyone wants to win!??!

It's hard for me to cheer for Duke in football. Sometimes I forget they have a football program, so I choose another team that wins. This year I liked USC until Texas beat them in the BCS Championship game, so I bought the Sports Illustrated Texas package with my 56-issue paid subsciption. That subscription is worth its weight in gold because I will have the hottest news on which teams are going to be winners in the coming year. But it doesn't matter because it's not like my fan loyalty can't be switched on a whim. Duh!

So anyway, this is basketball season. Even though I am an NC State student, we are not winning as much as Duke, so a Duke fan I will be! My choices make my life easier when I don't have to support a team that I myself hold no hopes for when the team I chose to support has already proven itself. From this I essentially have the right to argue on an Internet messageboard as to why my team is better than yours (ours technically, since we go to the same school), without being a pompous, baseless prick about it!

Last but not least, I never make up excuses as to why I cheer for Duke when people ask me. There is always a justifiable reason; such as I grew up liking Duke, I had a cousin that attended there in the 80s, I used to work there, I'm from Durham, I'm related to Bobby Hurley, I grew up with Coach K as my neighbor, etc. ALL of these are perfect reasons as to why I like them, so don't hate, appreciate.

2/6/2006 7:25:04 PM

No. I see now. I am wrong and always have been. Duke gets all the calls. That is the only reason they win games. Thanks for showing me "the light". It is a consipracy between the ACC head of officials, the ACC Commish (who is a die-hard Tarheel and im sure he would be thrilled with the idea of giving Duke an advantage) as well as the head of official for the NCAA officials. Thats a pretty good consipracy and i think they should all be celebrated for keeping it alive and under wraps for so long. So lets all stand and give them a round of applause. Thanks for showing me that i am wrong.

2/6/2006 7:29:21 PM

Quote :

"as well as the head of official for the NCAA officials."

Ha, Duke does not get them when it comes tourney time, thus they bow out early. They have been a #1 seed for the last what 12 years and have 1 title to show. They don't even make the final 4 half of the time.

2/6/2006 7:31:08 PM

Hey, did you guys know that saying Duke gets all the calls spawned from Billy Packer in the 90s? Wow, I didn't know where our devout conspiracy theory had started! I don't even have to watch a game anymore and there doesn't need to be any more examples shown to me!!!

[Edited on February 6, 2006 at 7:32 PM. Reason : K]

2/6/2006 7:31:25 PM

^^^^so you cheer for whoever is doing best, bandwaggoner

[Edited on February 6, 2006 at 7:33 PM. Reason : Just go through my checklist, i bet most of them happen next game]

2/6/2006 7:31:26 PM