was the shot by Bennerman @ Clemson to send the game into Overtime.

It was also the only time this season that we did not call a timeout and allow the defense to set up.

Why did we keep calling timeouts and running the exact same fucking play in regulation, OT, and Double OT.

that mixed with not giving Ced any post touches have finally put me over the edge.

this is the first time since I left the game yesterday that i am calm enough to talk about it.

Please, someone please help me understand why we kept runnig the same fucking play out of every timeout? It didnt work, not once.

I am for the program
I am at Herb
I am like at our in game coaching
I want to

2/26/2006 9:56:39 PM

did you see how pissed bennerman was when we called that last timeout? he had the ball and was starting to drive. he knew if they called timeout there would be a set play that wouldn't include him taking the shot. i would've liked to have seen him drive.

2/26/2006 9:59:12 PM

isnt that fucking show Herb Sendek show tonight?

2/26/2006 10:00:28 PM

Quote :

"It was also the only time this season that we did not call a timeout and allow the defense to set up. Why did we keep calling timeouts and running the exact same fucking play in regulation, OT, and Double OT."

Yup. This is exactly what I was thinking once Herb called the TO. I was like, forget it, at best we'll not get a shot off and at worst we'll turn it over.

2/26/2006 10:17:07 PM

Quote :

"once Herb called the TO. I was like, forget it"

2/26/2006 10:20:57 PM

ewalk, when herb called that TO i noticed bennerman as well. slammed the ball and sort of rolled his eyes.

ha ha, damn herb.

2/26/2006 10:21:38 PM

Quote :

"isnt that fucking show Herb Sendek show tonight?"

what's the point?

ever seen the Chuck Amato show?

2/26/2006 10:22:21 PM

in all reality, we would have lost a couple of more games this year if it was any other recent year. we would have lost @ Miami or @ Clemson off the top of my head. we probably would have gotten beat at home by wake, miami or fsu. i still think this is a special team... the season is far from over. GO PACK

[Edited on February 26, 2006 at 10:23 PM. Reason : e]

2/26/2006 10:22:37 PM

any of you all think most of the problems would be solved if we had a true point guard and a go to guy

especially point guard, duke and unc are the only teams with a player averaging around 5 assists or more and they are one and two in the conf

2/26/2006 10:25:01 PM

is there any chance chris wright could just skip his senior year? if you think we are in trouble this year at the point, just wait til next year. bethel has been very good for us. next year it's up to atsur, grant, and ferguson.

2/26/2006 10:29:28 PM

Quote :

"when herb called that TO i noticed bennerman as well. slammed the ball and sort of rolled his eyes."

haha he was thinking "fucking herb!!!!1"

2/26/2006 10:37:02 PM

Quote :

"next year it's up to atsur, grant, and ferguson"

you conviniently forgot simmons

2/26/2006 10:43:36 PM

Try to stay up mister tri man. He is referring to ball handlers.

Disclaimer to be explained later pending clarification.

Quote :

"any of you all think most of the problems would be solved if we had a true point guard and a go to guy"

Of course if we had a better pure ball handler that is quick (ala felton, etc) then a lot of our last second woes would be cured. Our guys are too slow (especially at the end of the marathons Herb puts them through because we never have a truly deep team because he doesn't give enough guys playing time, but I digress) when the game is frantic on a last second shot.

[Edited on February 26, 2006 at 10:48 PM. Reason : x]

2/26/2006 10:46:31 PM

Quote :

"that mixed with not giving Ced any post touches have finally put me over the edge."

I dunno about all of the people that complain about that because about 3 times we lobbed in into Ced and he dropped like the time in 2nd OT when he had a dunk to tie it.

Other than that I agree with most of what you said.

2/26/2006 11:13:05 PM

more like shitty entry passes way over his head.

2/26/2006 11:15:53 PM

yeah, our guys throw some GOD AWFUL entry passes sometimes. atsur had one yesterday that just left me with my jaw dropped. he just nonchalantly lobbed the ball up in the air, basically a jump ball, like he had no idea that the defender would move to make a play on it and not just sit still while ced caught it.

2/26/2006 11:37:48 PM

During the game my friend and I were discussing the whole timeout thing...there was one game this year where a timeout led to a made bucket that won the game (I couldnt think of it at the time but I think it was the Virginia game now). My friend also mentioned the UConn game last year in which we didnt call a timeout, although Herb was going to call one before Julius waved him off. Is it possible that maybe one of our upperclassmen needs to step up and say "No, weve got this". Not trying to shift the blame to the players, just an idea for discussion.

2/26/2006 11:39:59 PM

Haha yeah that Atsur pass may have been worse than the pass that won UNC the 1982 championship.

So why try and feed Ced when we can't get it into him?

2/26/2006 11:40:32 PM

Quote :

"My friend also mentioned the UConn game last year in which we didnt call a timeout, although Herb was going to call one before Julius waved him off."

It's actually interesting that that happened.

Seriously, what does that say to you?

2/26/2006 11:41:58 PM

^that HERB IS GOD WOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

2/26/2006 11:49:44 PM

- Herb also doesn't realize that drawing fouls is a legitimate offensive weapon.
- Herb needs to watch tapes of uconn, unc, duke, and program known for its big man play and see how those teams get entry passes. They use ball fakes, dribbling to create passing lanes, and they dont telegraph the pass for 3 seconds before they throw it.

2/27/2006 1:55:39 AM

I was furious that 3 damn end of game plays simmons was at the top of the fucking key, and at the end the ball ended up in our least athletic ball handler.

I really want to know what herb tells them in these situations.

2/27/2006 8:56:04 AM

Had Herb coached the 83' team, we would have lost the title game to Houston

Lorenzo Charles would have been at the 3 point line...

2/27/2006 8:59:38 AM

^^ somewhat in his defense if Evtimov didn't all of a sudden get shy we would have had a WIDE OPEN 3 at the end of the first OT..

I wanted to kick him when he passed that up..

^ if we had Marcus Melvin he wouldn't have needed a put back. Just would have drilled the first shot against Houston..

[Edited on February 27, 2006 at 9:16 AM. Reason : f]

2/27/2006 9:04:55 AM

^^ haha, but be serious...

We wouldnt have even been in the '83 NCAA tournament.


Herb would have blown a 20 point lead to Duke in four minutes in the ACC tourney to keep us out of it
--ACC final 2003


or i could have gone with

Herb would have blown a 20 point lead to Maryland in the 2nd half in the ACC tourney to keep us out of it
--ACC semis 2004

[Edited on February 27, 2006 at 9:12 AM. Reason : a]

2/27/2006 9:11:45 AM

Quote :

"^ if we had Marcus Melvin he wouldn't have needed a put back. Just would have drilled the first shot against Houston.."

Very true.

Damn, Houston must hate us. Broke thier hearts twice

2/27/2006 9:24:07 AM

Marcus Melvin would have gotten the ball stuck between his teeth and then got called for a travel.

2/27/2006 10:22:17 AM

reminds me of last year in the UConn game...

Quote :

"Wolfpack has a timeout...Herb Sendek lets 'em play...here's the man from Harlem...GOT IT!! and the foul."

Here, just watch it. http://mfile.akamai.com/14372/wmv/mmod.download.akamai.com/14310/gamechmom/ncstconn_032005_moment.asx

Why couldnt he just let them play?

[Edited on February 27, 2006 at 10:38 AM. Reason : link]

2/27/2006 10:31:40 AM

Quote :

"I dunno about all of the people that complain about that because about 3 times we lobbed in into Ced and he dropped like the time in 2nd OT when he had a dunk to tie it."

ced really does need to get the ball more but i think the style we use to get the ball to him is ineffective. our team is trying to take advantage of ced's arm length and vertical ability (37 inch vertical!!) by lobbing passes, then when he gets the ball it is a easy basket as his man is behind him. i think we need to give the ball to him more by the bounce pass and then let him work on his man for the bucket. the easy bucket method is ideal on paper but our passes and the communication about when the pass is coming is not very good so the ball is getting turned over 70% of the time.

2/27/2006 10:38:19 AM

^ correct


Those high entry passes are shit. Cedric looks awkward trying to catch them and Atsur looks like a downey trying to throw them.

Throw him the fucking ball on the block. Then let him go to work. He will either draw the foul or take a high percentage shot 90% of the time.

What is hard to understand about that?

2/27/2006 10:40:28 AM

^nothing.

if you were at the game on Saturday, you would have heard every fucking fan in the RBC screaming to Herb.."POST HIM UP...POST UP CED!!"

I swear to god he lost me for good on Saturday.

Even after the UNC game i had his back....

but we lost to BC on coaching alone. Yes, the players make the plays...but minor adjustments (zone defense, Ced in the post) could have completely changed that game.

2/27/2006 10:47:47 AM

^

I rolled my eyes along with 20,000 others when he called that last timeout. I swear about 16,000 of them said wtf? just let them play!!

2/27/2006 11:04:26 AM

^ exactly. and i was screaming from my seat.

i mean, whats the use in calling a timeout to tell them to "RUN THE OFFENSE", which takes 35 seconds, and we have 10 seconds.

no wonder we dicked around with it 3 times and came up with SHIT.

2/27/2006 11:10:49 AM

and i just got chills watching the end of that uconn game last year

2/27/2006 11:12:42 AM

yea we had 30 seconds left and we come down and cam starts to dribble around looking to make something happen, then herb calls a TO w/ 20 seconds left. that is a pete gillen TO, if you are gonna call it, call it. dont wait around.


and honestly ced needs to learn to hold onto the damn ball, it seems like when he does post, he turns it over as much as he scores. he needs to learn to handle the double team and either get rid of it or hold onto the ball and get a good shot off

2/27/2006 11:24:30 AM

he turns it over b/c the passes he gets are crap. if you want to blame him for turning it over then think of something better than his hands, cause he got 3 rebounds that i wouldn't have expected any player to get yet somehow he managed to come down with it. last year you could have blamed his hands, you are right about the double team though, he seems unsure when to try to take the shot anyway or pass it out, the hesitation always kills him.

2/27/2006 11:34:16 AM

i'm not talking about evtimov and atsur's horrible passes dumbass

i said 'when he gets it'

in other words, when he has it in his grasp, he tends to turn into defenders and get the ball knocked away or see a doulbe team and try to pass it out and throw the ball away

2/27/2006 11:36:54 AM

^indeed. ced never takes it strong to the hoop. I dont think he has jammed on anyone this year. He either does a jump hook or passes it out, no matter what. Taking it strong = get a foul.

2/27/2006 6:07:02 PM

do u guys watch our games?

i can remember numerous times he has dunked and got a foul on the dunk
hell he had 4 fouls on his defender in the 4 times he touched it against UNC

the problem is our guys wont spread out and BOUNCE PASS it into him to let him work down low, these crappy lob passes suck

2/27/2006 6:10:49 PM

Quote :

"that is a pete gillen TO, if you are gonna call it, call it. dont wait around."

pete gillen wouldn't have had a timeout at the end of the game

2/27/2006 6:28:20 PM

Herb didn't call TO when we lost to GaTech did he? That one didn't end too well. At least when he calls a TO he can design a play where Gavin Grant is nowhere near the basketball.

2/27/2006 10:38:36 PM

^um, thats exactly where he should be -- to get rebounds and putbacks. he shouldnt be around the arc.


or are you going to try to use a sample set of 1 game to say how he should play? tell me you aren't that stupid.

2/27/2006 10:40:55 PM

Quote :

"any of you all think most of the problems would be solved if we had a true point guard and a go to guy especially point guard, duke and unc are the only teams with a player averaging around 5 assists or more and they are one and two in the conf"

I've been saying this for years, glad someone else said it too. Give us a playmaker point guard and this time could be a real contender.... finally... for the ACC and possibly the national championship...

2/28/2006 1:19:10 AM

^yea I really think Herb's in game coaching gets way to much blame around here when the team has only had one true play maker lately (Hodge) and he wasn't really a true point guard

I know herb runs a unique system but usually the worst teams in college basketball every year are the ones without a playmaker to count on to run the offense and it's displayed the most in end game situations

now obviously it's his job to recruit a lead guard with some real talent and it is his own fault that he would rather recruit versatile wing players year in and year out instead

[Edited on February 28, 2006 at 1:40 AM. Reason : k]

2/28/2006 1:34:35 AM

Quote :

"now obviously it's his job to recruit a lead guard with some real talent and it is his own fault that he would rather recruit versatile wing players year in and year out instead"

Chris Wright. But he won't be here till 2007-2008. Hopefully Ced will still be here. That is a possible inside-out combination there, throw in an improved Grant, Fells, Costner, and the frosh for next year and that team could do things.

2/28/2006 2:27:11 AM

Ah, the old "Wait till next year" post....a staple of the Herb era

2/28/2006 7:38:16 AM

Lowjack,

I said:

Quote :

"At least when he calls a TO he can design a play where Gavin Grant is nowhere near the basketball. "

You said:

Quote :

"or are you going to try to use a sample set of 1 game to say how he should play? tell me you aren't that stupid."

I agree w/ you completely about the rebound/putback thing. My point is that in a clutch situation...don't pass the ball to that kid. I swear he screws up almost everytime he touches the ball. If the game is on the line and time is winding down...Gavin Grant should not have his hands on the basketball unless its for a putback or rebound. Otherwise, he's gonna screw something up.

2/28/2006 8:05:58 AM

sure, there's times when not calling a timeout in the final seconds of a game could work to your advantage, but there's at least as many where it could hurt.

http://www.brentroad.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=188157&page=1

2/28/2006 10:01:36 AM

Look

All this stupid talk about couching this and strategy that is pointless

Our team hasn't played with fire since the Duke game

So as long as they flat foot in contests

We won't amount to much.

2/28/2006 11:01:32 AM

Quote :

"do u guys watch our games? i can remember numerous times he has dunked and got a foul on the dunk hell he had 4 fouls on his defender in the 4 times he touched it against UNC the problem is our guys wont spread out and BOUNCE PASS it into him to let him work down low, these crappy lob passes suck"

exactly

I can recall at least once off the top of my head where he got a good bounce pass and used his ass and his shoulder and went strong to the hoop. And guess what, he scored. Then we started putting him up at the key to try to have him bounce pass it to someone on a back door cut. But that shit only worked once to McCauley during the game. The rest of the times no one was able to take the cut and Ced is left standing there looking stupid trying to give the ball to a shooter as the shot clock runs out

2/28/2006 11:03:39 AM