good idea? bad idea, or does it not really matter?

4/16/2006 12:54:48 PM

does the tranny have working syncros?

4/16/2006 1:04:43 PM

as far as I know... which isnt far

4/16/2006 1:16:20 PM

no need to double clutch anything built in the last 20 years. Just be nice to it for a couple days.

4/16/2006 1:18:27 PM

werd, thanks

4/16/2006 1:20:11 PM

granny shifting and not double clutching like ya should, you're lucky that double shot of nos didnt blow the welds on the intake.

if Dom says you should double clutch you should double clutch.

4/16/2006 2:56:48 PM

do you even know what double-clutching is?

4/16/2006 3:05:08 PM

It truly does not make a good goddamn.

4/16/2006 3:07:29 PM

easy, double clutching is when you downshift from like 5th to 3rd, or 4th to 2nd.










(i'm joking)

4/16/2006 3:16:05 PM

No No No its when you use both feet to push in the clutch.....duhhhh

4/16/2006 3:25:32 PM

Nah, it's like when you put your foot on both the gas and brake pedals while downshifting

4/16/2006 3:52:16 PM

This asian guy at my high school had some kind of BMW, and he was filthy rich, and one day on the freeway he downshifted from 5th to 2nd at 75 mph when exiting, and BAM there went his clutch.

4/16/2006 4:32:50 PM

I double clutch on downshifts sometimes in my car (I pretty much always rev match). It likes it a lot more when I do honestly. But then again my car is a pos.

4/16/2006 5:11:49 PM

I'm pretty sure that rev matching and double clutching are easier on the transmission and clutch assuming good technique... bad technique might be worse, though

4/16/2006 5:18:39 PM

^^2nd gear is a pain sometimes, getting into 1st at anything over 5mph is useless 95% of the time

4/16/2006 7:11:15 PM

Quote :

"no need to double clutch anything built in the last 20 years. Just be nice to it for a couple days."

4/16/2006 7:44:25 PM

while there is no need, doesnt it help save some wear on the synchros?

4/16/2006 10:12:40 PM

^ but you use your clutch 2x as much wouldn't the clutch wear that out faster?

either way in my morgan I get to double de-clutch (for some reason the Brits say de-clutch) b/c it has some missing syncromesh.

[Edited on April 16, 2006 at 10:15 PM. Reason : s]

4/16/2006 10:14:38 PM

hmmm... is it really hard for many cars to do a 2-1 downshift with any speed? i can do a 2-1 downshift at 10-15mph with no troubles in the civic

4/16/2006 10:29:46 PM

my old ricer friends say civics (and hondas?) can do it easily for some reason...

I have to rev-match to get it into first gear while moving at 5+ mph

4/16/2006 11:04:06 PM

I think hondas are by far the easiest manuals to drive.

4/16/2006 11:33:48 PM

interesting.

4/17/2006 12:07:06 AM

you made a thread about double clutching....

4/17/2006 1:06:09 AM

Double clutching is the most retarding thing. Only time it is needed is when drivng a shit like semi-trucks. Other than that, all you need to do is rev-match.

4/17/2006 1:27:49 AM

4/17/2006 1:43:31 AM

ok... i'm a driving n00b... ok not really... i've driven a stick all of my life. what exactly IS double clutching?

4/17/2006 3:12:13 AM

A double clutch (also called a double declutch) is a driving procedure used for vehicles with an unsynchronized manual transmission.

Before the introduction of synchronizers (1920s) and helical cut gears, double declutching was technique required to prevent damage to an automobile's gear system. Due to the difficulty involved in learning the technique, and because of the advent of synchonized gearing systems it has largely fallen into disuse. However, drivers of large trucks still use double clutching, as those vehicles are usually equipped with the older, more efficient, and more durable unsynchronized gearboxes.

The purpose of the double clutch is to match the speed of the rotating parts of the gearbox for the gear you wish to select to the speed of the input shaft being driven by the engine. Once the speeds are matched, the gear will engage smoothly. If the speeds are not matched, the dog teeth on the collar will "crash" or grate as they attempt to fit into the holes on the desired gear. A modern synchromesh gearbox accomplishes this synchronization automatically.

When shifting up on a double-clutched vehicle, the clutch pedal is pressed and the gearbox shifted into neutral. The clutch pedal is then released. As the engine idles with no load, the rpms will decrease until they are at a level suitable for shifting into the next gear. The driver then depresses the clutch again and shifts into the next gear. The whole maneuver can, with practice, take no more than a fraction of a second, and the result is a very smooth gear change. However, in order to downshift, engine revs must be increased while the gearbox is in neutral and the clutch pedal is released. This requires the driver to shift into neutral, release the clutch pedal, apply throttle to bring the revs up to a suitable speed, depresss the clutch again, and finally shift into gear. This operation can be very difficult to master, as it requires the driver to gauge the speed of the vehicle accurately and is often conducted as cars in front slow down.

A related technique is called Heel-and-Toe, during which the brake and accelerator pedal are pressed by the right foot while the clutch pedal is pressed by the left foot. Note that Heel-and-Toe can be used with any downshift clutch operation, not just with double-clutching. Though difficult, mastering Heel-and-Toe in conjunction with Double Clutching is essential for high performance driving (e.g., Rallying) where straight-cut gearboxes are often used to minimize the waste of power.

4/17/2006 3:15:37 AM

Quote :

"Only time it is needed is when drivng a shit like semi-trucks."

yeah, for people who don't know how to drive them. the only time you should use a clutch in a truck is to start off.

4/17/2006 7:51:36 PM

the most retarding thing

4/17/2006 8:02:04 PM

Quote :

"but you use your clutch 2x as much wouldn't the clutch wear that out faster?"

it probably wears less because it's not slipping as much due to rev-matching

4/18/2006 12:54:47 AM

Quote :

"where straight-cut gearboxes are often used to minimize the waste of power."

i always thought they used straight cut gears b/c they were stronger...

4/18/2006 12:56:35 AM

^ both...

they sort-of go hand in hand... if your gearbox is more efficient then less of the power is absorbed into the gears themselves due to friction or stress caused by the odd contact angles of the gears.

(btw.. call bullshit i don't care i only have spreadsheets that do the calculations here)

4/18/2006 1:16:02 AM

haha I "double clutched" my vette tonight!!1 Holding a cup and it didnt go in third so when i came off the clutch it made a cool VroooooOOOOOM sound then i pushed the clutch back in and put it in gear and I flew off the pavement!!

(did miss 3rd and double clutched it though, felt gay and unworthy )

4/18/2006 1:33:51 AM

no that was just a mis shift

4/18/2006 10:33:30 AM

^haha, i know, but i came off the clutch while it was out of gear, so effectively i double cluched it... i laughed like hell. i bet some asian kid near cookout was like "dood that vette just double clutched... badass yo!, wheres his stickers?"

4/18/2006 3:30:00 PM

I usually double clutch when downshifting more than 1 gear

4/18/2006 9:34:55 PM

so is double clutching when i hear that "vroom" sound as they are downshifting to come to a stop or whatever?

4/19/2006 4:00:46 AM

i double clutch all the time. if im on the highway in 6th coming down to the 25mph ramp, ill just put in neutral, brake to say 35mph, rev it up to 3k and shift to 3rd. it is much smoother than riding thrrough 5th, 4th, 3rd and so on. you barely use your clutch this way, although your pads will wear out quicker. personally, id rather be changing pads than clutch.

4/19/2006 4:18:24 AM

umm... if you do it right... you don't really use your clutch but the engine's compression to slow you down.

basically if the transmission and the engine are spinning the same speed the clutch never slips

4/19/2006 7:38:52 AM

Quote :

"so is double clutching when i hear that "vroom" sound as they are downshifting to come to a stop or whatever?"

when you say "they" i assume you are referring to truckers? if so, that sound you speak of is the infamous "jake brake". in simplicity terms, the jacobs engine brake system causes the exhaust valves to have a shorter duration which in turn keeps the closed longer. this builds more compression in the engine which is what causes the added noise.

speaking of which, there isn't a better sounding diesel than a straight-piped detroit series 60 on a jake brake.

4/19/2006 8:52:49 AM

Quote :

"umm... if you do it right... you don't really use your clutch but the engine's compression to slow you down."

well since you enjoy splitting hairs... no, that is not correct, because everytime you press the clutch at speed to go into neutral you are getting some slipping. just like holding a clutch down in 1st at the light while you are idling is wearing out the clutch over time.

4/19/2006 9:41:57 AM

If the clutch pedal works correctly, there shouldn't be anything wearing with the clutch in at a stop light except for the throw out bearing. Starting out from a dead stop slips the clutch much more than just shifting through the gears (but I guess it depends on how a person drives more than anything). I don't double clutch all the time, but I don't slip the clutch a lot either. The stock clutch in my truck has almost 160000 miles on it and it is fine.

4/19/2006 11:37:53 AM

^^please explain how you wear your clutch sitting at a light with the clutch disengaged.

?

4/19/2006 1:23:02 PM

double-clutching can be easier on your clutch as it wont make it match the speed between the engine and drive train (the surge you feel when you down shift and just let off the clutch). Unless you're going balls out through a corner and need to maintain a steady balance you don't really need to heel-toe, as a matter of fact i find it harder to do when driving slow, as opposed to crashing into a corner, on the brakes heavy while rev-matching.

4/19/2006 1:40:17 PM

i almost always heel/toe when driving... just makes everything smoother...

4/19/2006 1:58:47 PM

just frickin' drive the thing

4/19/2006 2:38:05 PM

^^^^use google. it's common knowledge that holding your clutch down at traffic lights is wearing out your clutch over time. put it neutral if you are going to wait.

first link from google...

"DO NOT keep the Clutch pedal depressed for extended periods such as while waiting at traffic lights – thus avoiding unnecessary wear on the CRB and over-stressing the Pressure Plate spring-diaphragm."

http://www.indiacar.com/index2.asp?pagename=http://www.indiacar.com/infobank/autoclutch4.htm

[Edited on April 19, 2006 at 2:42 PM. Reason : adsf]

4/19/2006 2:42:20 PM

well yeah

but the clutch isnt wearing

4/19/2006 2:46:23 PM

Quote :

"double-clutching can be easier on your clutch as it wont make it match the speed between the engine and drive train (the surge you feel when you down shift and just let off the clutch)."

No. double clutching can be easier on your synchros. The surge you feel is because you didn't rev match.

4/19/2006 2:58:48 PM

yes by stressing out your spring will eventually lead to clutch wear. they work in sync

4/19/2006 3:02:16 PM