How is there such a huge difference between the endowment money between State and Carolina? I don't know all the ins and outs of this, so can someone explain this. I found that the endowments were $380 million for State, and $1.49 billion for Carolina. Why such the disparity between the two schools? Why are they getting more donated money than State? Could the UNC System divide it up more respectively? I don't know, I just want a little insight into this.

4/30/2006 1:11:33 PM

they're the flagship university of the state

4/30/2006 1:20:22 PM

I think people at NCSU have much larger penises than those at UNC. Does that answer your question?

4/30/2006 1:36:53 PM

They have more alumni donations. You guys are jews.

4/30/2006 1:37:36 PM

alot more of chapel hill is the university than of raleigh is ncsu... maybe they have more bills to pay/jobs to fund in that respect.

The University of North Carolina was anticipated by a section of the first state constitution drawn up in 1776 directing the establishing of "one or more universities" in which "all useful learning shall be duly encouraged and promoted." State support, it directed, should be provided so that instruction might be available "at low prices." The American Revolution intervened and it was not until 1789, the year that George Washington became president of the new nation, that the University was chartered by the General Assembly.

The second state university did not begin classes until 1801 when a few students from nearby academies assembled under a large tree at Athens, Georgia, for instruction. By then four classes had already been graduated at Chapel Hill and there were to be three more before the first diplomas were issued in Georgia.

In 1815, however, the natural sciences were given equal place, and in the 1820s Professors Denison Olmstead and Elisha Mitchell prepared the nation's first geological survey. In 1831 the first astronomical observatory at a state university was built under the direction of President Joseph Caldwell. Student enrollment increased steadily, and by 1860 only Yale College had more students.

The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill is a comprehensive research university offering the highest academic quality and a culture of achievement and collaboration. Chartered in 1789, UNC is the oldest state university in the United States

"they're the flagship university of the state"

This applies to NC specifically, but to the US as a state more broadly.

I’m all for a good rivalry between NCSU & UNC…but having UNC done right makes us all look better as North Carolinians. (& we can still take advantage of any class UNC offers that NCSU doesn’t by taking classes inter-institutionally, & only paying an ncsu tuition to take a unc class)

4/30/2006 1:41:25 PM

UNC is overrated. NCSU should be the #1 power in the system. It's already the largest school, has the most talented people, and is marginally less pretentious...

It's kind of like Raleigh vs Charlotte...Raleigh's "#1" just b/c it's the capital, but everyone knows Charlotte is better... 

4/30/2006 2:48:12 PM

I'm not sure how endowments work, but if they got one in 17xx something and we didn't get one until way later, their endowment should have grown t oa much larger sum than ours.

4/30/2006 2:56:59 PM

Chapel Hill loves UNC

Raleigh hates NCSU

and NCSU hates its students

4/30/2006 2:58:00 PM

TGD’s post read something like this. UNC SUCKS! We’re better, we’re better, we’re better, and as an added bonus we aren’t pretentious.

I think we are good at serving large numbers of people. But I’m not sure we could maintain serving the masses and trying to look like a flagship. Historically UNC has a stronger claim and has built up more finances for itself over the years. Get our alumni to donate more if you’re really worried about our financial levels, but being upset that we’re poorer than another school won’t really change things. We serve a lot of people, we do a really good job, and we can stretch a dollar. We should focus on our strengths instead of worrying about older schools finances.

4/30/2006 3:22:26 PM

UNC graduates many Lawyers, Doctors, & businessmen, who make much more money than our scientists. Therefore, they can give more money. It's as simple as that.

4/30/2006 3:35:54 PM

yeh they have a dental, medical, law, and pharmacy school

4/30/2006 3:39:34 PM

^^^
haha wow, you pretty much proved my point -- our students can cram more stupidity into a single post than anyone from UNC...

4/30/2006 5:52:02 PM

Someone clarify what 'endowment' is exactly.

See, we have useful stuff here, and real world places, not just the NC government gives us money. Often times this means we don't get as much from NC as we would if those real world places didn't give us money. Or at least that's what I believe this means.

I mean shit, we have SMALL departments that get tons of money for the research b/c it's a hard to find program and there's a great demand for the work.

4/30/2006 6:06:54 PM

“our students can cram more stupidity into a single post than anyone from UNC”

They certainly can.

4/30/2006 6:24:24 PM

i don't think UNC people post in stuff very often. And if they did it would be crap.

4/30/2006 7:02:02 PM

UNC has older alumni than us and much more of them. giving to the endowment yourselves won't hurt things, but short of a mircale, we'll NEVER walk them down so the only thing we can hope for is that Dr. Goodnight is feeling EXTREMELY generous one day. if you look at the national endowment rankings, there are schools up there that you look at and think "WTS are they doing up there." donate money. when the endowment goes up prestige goes up and it makes your degree look better.

4/30/2006 7:19:12 PM

it's basketball

[/thread]

4/30/2006 7:20:21 PM

a large part of it has to do with careers of graduates.
go look at where a lot of old governors, politicians, rich ass hos came from 20 or 30 years ago

4/30/2006 7:22:10 PM

The State of NC cannot give endowments, IIRC. However, you all seemed confused on how endowments are created at our Unviersities. NCSU just started the private side of the Achieve campaign about 4 years ago, and already we've raised more than $850 million in endowments and other donations. And the number you mentioned Patrick is from one segment of endowments. Realistically, we've had over $850 mil pledged, and we've collected about $300 mil. But the number you referenced comes from loose endowment money--or money that was not specifically targeted for one purpose, or school. A good portion of our endowment money is targetted to cover professorships, so that we can retain faculty. Currently, I believe that Engineering has the most, CHASS has one, and BUS as 2 professorships.

UNCCH has been working on their endowment for decades, and their alumni base is much larger than NCSU's--in part because of their historic sports achievements, and in part because they are the oldest public institution in the US (well, the one that has been operating the longest, but one other school actually was built before UNCCH).

Anyway, if you look at the careers, as someone mentioned earlier, UNCCH has pharmacists, lawyers, and politicians flowing over in their alumni base. We have engineers as our only stronghold. So, we have less to work with, and less time. Overall, we're quite impressive. UNCCH has announced that they will make another push now, mostly because of our success.

But just remember, endownments are not from public funds, so it is only based on how well the schools can raise from alumni and corporate ties. NCSU is better at it, we just haven't been doing it as long because we do not have the historical context of UNCCH.

4/30/2006 7:29:11 PM

We give out a lot more degrees so even though we are younger we should eventually supplant UNC by quantity of alumni alone regardless of what kind of jobs our alumni are getting. I think I’ll probably donate some… once I’ve had as secure job for a while.

4/30/2006 7:35:56 PM

I think it's the graduate school.

If both schools were only undergrad, I would expect our endowment to be a whole lot closer. But UNC has a nationally recognized med school and law school, in addition to their very good undergrad.

4/30/2006 8:08:38 PM

two words: Paul & Cousins.

4/30/2006 8:13:12 PM

Quote :

"it's basketball [/thread]"

it's professional sports

[/thread]

but look at all their famous alumni

Quote :

"Jim Beatty - first person to run a four-minute mile indoors Lewis Black - comedian and playwright Erskine Bowles - former White House Chief of Staff Gaston Caperton - former Governor of West Virginia Vince Carter - professional basketball player Rick Dees - radio personality, composer of novelty song "Disco Duck" Elizabeth Edwards - attorney, wife of John Edwards John Edwards - attorney, former Senator from North Carolina Sam Ervin - former Senator from North Carolina Louise Fletcher - Oscar-winning actress Shelby Foote - historian and novelist Peter Gammons - ESPN sportswriter Andy Griffith - actor, comedian, writer, and producer Mia Hamm - soccer player Allen Johnson - hurdler Marion Jones - sprinter Michael Jordan - professional basketball player Charles Kuralt - journalist Howard Little - artist Davis Love III - professional golfer Armistead Maupin - writer Oliver - pop singer Jack Palance - actor Julius Peppers - professional football player Walker Percy - novelist James K. Polk - 11th President of the United States Terry Sanford - former Senator from and Governor of North Carolina Stuart Scott - ESPN sportscaster Lawrence Taylor - professional football player Zebulon Baird Vance - former Governor of North Carolina Paul Wellstone - former Senator from Minnesota Thomas Wolfe - novelist"

4/30/2006 8:14:48 PM

In no particular order:

1. Office of Student Conduct
2. NCSU Transportation
3. systematically exterminating anything fun or cool (see thread in Old School about things that NCSU snuffed out over the years)

4/30/2006 8:16:25 PM

Quote :

"We give out a lot more degrees"

As far as undergrad goes, this isn't really true.
Over the past 5 or 6 years, UNC has enrolled around 3500 students per year. NCSU enrolls around 3800 per year.
But UNC's 6 year graduation rate is almost 85% while ours is about 65%.

Quote :

"Someone clarify what 'endowment' is exactly."

An endowment (as I understand it) is pretty much just a big savings account for the university. Each year, the school will take the interest that the account drew and use some of it for professor salaries, some for facilities, and reinvest some of it to grow the account even more.
Schools with large endowments typically can afford to pay their professors more and build better facilities. I think Harvard's general endowment is around $24,000,000,000 (24 billion). With that much money, they could probably get by without having to even charge their students tuition and just get by on the interest alone. (Of course, it's not like they actually do.) But the rich just continue getting richer, while the rest of us wallow around in relative poverty.

Each university has several different endowments floating around. Each college within the university has a smaller endowment to be used specifically for that college. There are also athletic endowments which pay for athletic scholarships and coaches and facilities and stuff.

4/30/2006 8:21:13 PM

it would be nice if all of ACHIEVE! went to the endowment but most of it is to other stuff. i think the improvements to carter-finley were included in the number. i'm not sure, but it would seem like the money pledged toward the Vet school animal hospital is a part of it as well as the money given by Mrs. Park for the alumni center on centennial. money that makes campus and the experience nicer but does nothing for the endowment.

4/30/2006 8:34:44 PM

wasnt there a story about harvard giving full financial aid to all students who couldnt afford to pay full tuition out of their endowment

4/30/2006 9:10:07 PM

Sports *cough*

4/30/2006 9:18:08 PM

^no, that's another school in new england...rochester or something like that

and yeah, the achieve campaign includes all donations, not just endowment money...but so does UNCCH's figure...

4/30/2006 9:19:48 PM

^^i don't doubt it. i figured the Carolina Covenant was a rip off of somebody. we have a ripoff of a ripoff: "the Pack Promise"

4/30/2006 9:20:24 PM

^^ there's a new engineering school near boston, olin college, that had its inaugural admissions class in 2002 (i believe). they admit only a tiny amount of students each year (like 150 maybe?) but if you get in, its all paid for. franklin olin left the endowment to start the school and pay for all the students.

http://www.olin.edu/about_olin/olin_history.asp

4/30/2006 10:09:28 PM

http://www2.acs.ncsu.edu/UPA/peers/current/benchmarks2003/frame.htm
Scroll down to "Alumni" on the left hand side. There isn't a HUGE difference between alumni giving at NCSU and UNCH for 2003. You can also look up "endowment" on that side as well.

http://www.unc.edu/news/compendium.shtml
As somebody else mentioned, UNCH started a campaign not long ago to raise some money. It's called "Carolina First". Google it some more if you want some information ... for now:

Quote :

"By December 2005, Carolina First had brought in $1.62 billion, 81 percent of the campaign goal, while being more than three-quarters complete. [...] Total giving in fiscal 2005 was $192.5 million in gifts and private grants, breaking Carolina's single-year record of $192.4 million, set in 2004. This total counts only cash and assets received outright. Including pledges and deferred gifts, commitments totaled $244.8 million, topping 2004's $236 million."

Also, I give UNC-CH some credit, they redid the search on their website, now its "Powered by Google Search Appliance"...

[Edited on May 1, 2006 at 5:54 AM. Reason : .]

5/1/2006 5:49:18 AM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_alumni_from_University_of_North_Carolina_at_Chapel_Hill

5/1/2006 8:03:33 PM

i have an uncle who went here. And he complains about getting requests for giving money. Like, he could give but doesn't. And i dont think his experience with the administration and all is about the same as ours, even if it was decades ago.

5/1/2006 8:29:43 PM

I was reading an article on the Duke Lacrosse scandal and it listed Duke's endowment at $3.8 Billion and NCCU's as 22 million.

5/1/2006 8:50:22 PM

yeah, in the NYTimes..but here's a copy:
http://64.136.56.77/cgi-bin/article.pl?a=200605013

5/1/2006 9:00:42 PM

Princeton is supposed to be free.

Harvard and Duke actually have the endowment to make education free for all students but they won't do it.



They're not that stupid.

5/1/2006 9:42:18 PM

isnt unc like democrat and ncsu is republican?

5/1/2006 10:11:12 PM

To my knowledge most NC Republican officials are UNC grads.

5/1/2006 10:21:54 PM

To my knowledge most NC Republican officials are UNC grads.

5/2/2006 12:33:39 AM

It's implied that the Democrats are as well.

5/2/2006 12:38:21 AM

i thought this thread was about cock size.

5/2/2006 12:39:51 AM

What are these NC republicans that you speak of?

5/2/2006 12:46:15 AM

Quote :

"1. Office of Student Conduct 2. NCSU Transportation 3. systematically exterminating anything fun or cool"

Yeah, bingo. I've never even had a direct problem with the first two and I feel like the university and city shits on students every chance it gets. The tailgating restrictions, brent road, npo, Flick cover-up, facebook photos, not listening to evaluations, standing in long lines to get tickets scanned, fee hikes for retarded shit, book prices, etc. They add up to a lot of things we're going to think about when we get letters asking for donations.

5/2/2006 9:40:45 AM

Quote :

"I think people at NCSU have much larger penises than those at UNC. Does that answer your question?"

not all of us are packing at least 8 inches like God is.

5/2/2006 10:15:05 AM

it might be interesting to trace the origins of endowment money. I think in a lot of cases the top schools benefitted from one or more huge endowments, various shrewd investments, and time.

true, if we look solely at ag-type schools there are some that are up there:
9. Texas A&M $4.9B
27. Ohio State $1.7B
38. Purdue $1.3B
44. Penn State $1.2B

140. NCSU $380M
but there are some big schools of all types further down the list than NCSU:
182. GA Tech $262M
209. UCSD $211 (major research univ)

I would say NCSU is a little bit behind but inline with it's rep and offerings

The biggest surprises for me were:
#9 Texas A&M and #4 UTexas (this must be more than just Austin)
I also thought #16 Duke would be top 10 at least
#35 Grinnell College $1.5B WTF???
#37 Williams College $1.3B
#30 UPitt vs. #67 CMU (CMU treats UPitt like dirt and their campus is much nicer, not to mention Carnegie himself)

http://www.nacubo.org/documents/research/FY05NESInstitutionsbyTotalAssets.pdf

5/2/2006 10:57:50 AM

^i think UCSD mooches off the University of California's (system) general endowment which is in the billions, though they lost a chunk in some accounting scandal in the last few years. i don't know if Penn State and tOSU fit in as the same type ag school category we are in since they have law and medical schools.

5/2/2006 12:11:45 PM

Quote :

"Penn State and tOSU fit in as the same type ag school category we are in since they have law and medical schools."

doh I did not know that

good points

5/2/2006 12:25:56 PM

Quote :

"209. UCSD $211 (major research univ)"

ucsd has only been around for 45yrs

5/2/2006 1:20:27 PM