(I finished this up a while back, but then the lightning knocked out my connection for a bit, and then ol' Beardawg locked up the thread I was going to post it in, so yeah, whatever)

What makes you think that college ball plays better D?

Because they look like they hustle? Is that it? Does it impress you when a Duke squad runs the full court press on an obviously less talented team (like us) and confounds them to a point that the defense looks impressive?

Do you translate effort as good defense? How retarded are you?

Does it shock you when a guy on tv gets a wide open shot? Does it ever occur to you that the offense always has the upper hand against the defense? Don't you realize that it happens in the college ranks too?

Do you not like the "defense" because of the fact that they make it look easy? Isn't that what the best players do? Make things look effortless? Are you going to blame the defense on the fact that the pros play for 48 minutes instead of 40, that they play for 82 games instead of 32? Who knew that they might have to conserve energy just to make it through the long haul? It takes some extraordinary conditioning to make it in the league. That's why there is such thing as the rookie wall.

Don't you know how much more talented the players are? If you played a Duke team consisting of Elton Brand, Grant Hill, Shane Battier, Corey Maggette, and Luol Deng (All currently playing, mind you), they'd make the best defensive team in the nation look like utter crap. The talent is better, playing defense is harder.

If the defense is so good, why doesn't more college teams play man to man defense? Many prefer the zone, as it makes up for a lack of actual good defense. In this way, the best offensive players get to play as they have teammates to make up for their lack of defense. I don't like the fact that the NBA implemented it because team's are already using that to their advantage. Dallas is the prime example, with the Devin Harris / Jason Terry lineup. But even they still play man to man on occasion, and there's only a handful of teams that run it on a regular basis.

Did it ever occur to you just how bad the defense would be in the college ranks if they played with the NBA line? They couldn't pack the lane like they could if they have to cover an arc that's just a few more feet away. (Not that I would worry, as only a handful would be dangerous enough to hit a three from out there. The college three is your typical long range 2 pointer anyway). I wouldn't want to give the poor players another thing to worry about.

And lastly, do you think that many of these players are playing for more than just the love of the game? Of course they love the game, but you have to be out of your mind if they didn't wish they could be in the NBA so they could be instant millionaires. Most of these "thugs" came from college. Gee, did they just become thugs once they got drafted? I would suspect that they were already thugs from back in high school, but now they can live the thug life a lot better.

So please, explain to me how college defense is so much better than the pros. I've enlightened you with my arguments, so go right on ahead. Otherwise, you're full of crap, and you're making it blatantly obvious that you need to watch more basketball...learn a thing or two.

5/18/2006 10:13:28 PM

Quote :

"If the defense is so good, why doesn't more college teams play man to man defense? Many prefer the zone, as it makes up for a lack of actual good defense."

i don't believe this for one second

5/18/2006 10:16:28 PM

Which part of it?

5/18/2006 10:17:54 PM

Quote :

"And lastly, do you think that many of these players are playing for more than just the love of the game? Of course they love the game, but you have to be out of your mind if they didn't wish they could be in the NBA so they could be instant millionaires. Most of these "thugs" came from college. Gee, did they just become thugs once they got drafted? I would suspect that they were already thugs from back in high school, but now they can live the thug life a lot better."

could you connect this for me to the rest of your argument?

5/18/2006 10:21:16 PM

That last one was in regards to calling NBA players thugs. You can disregard it as far as the whole defense argument.

5/18/2006 10:23:34 PM

NBA doesnt play defense until the playoffs

5/18/2006 10:35:16 PM

relatively ncaa plays better d. they dont really play better d but they play d to a better % of their capabilities than nba does.

i think thats what they are trying to say.

5/18/2006 10:38:54 PM

WORSE OFFENSE = BETTER DEFENSE

How many defensive players with no offensive game make it in the NBA?

Bruce Bowen (corner 3's aside), Ben Wallace, and maybe a dozen others

How many offensive players with no defensive game make it in the NBA?

The current 2 time MVP comes to mind...so does Dirk, Carmelo and several more all stars


GOOD OFFENSE BEATS GOOD DEFENSE

The offense always has the advantage. It knows whats coming, and the D has to react. It's the same as is baseball. Good pitching beats good hitting. In college, there are very few offensive standouts, so the defense looks better as a result. All the good offensive players either skip college or go for a year or two. No 'defensive specialists' ever come out early. Watch 'great' college scorers like JJ and Morrison get shut down next year by real NBA defense. If either one of those guys scores 20 a game, it would be a fucking shock.

5/18/2006 10:47:11 PM

it wouldnt shock me. especially not morrison who will have height or quickness on whoever guards him.

5/18/2006 10:49:49 PM

It would for me. This year's rookie class didn't have a single guy average over twenty points a game. None of these rookies that gets drafted could come out and be the best player on their team.

5/18/2006 10:51:08 PM

^^I don't understand that post at all.

You say it wouldn't shock you but then you say Morrison would have size and speed on his opponent.

P.S. Morrison is white.

5/18/2006 11:06:16 PM

and noted specifically for lack of athleticism and ideal footspeed

Think a slighty more skilled Austin Croshere (maybe a little harsh)

Carmelo-type at his high ceiling, but it will take several years

5/18/2006 11:09:19 PM

i said size or speed

5/19/2006 12:33:09 AM

fuckin dumb gook

5/19/2006 1:22:01 AM

never trust a slope

5/19/2006 1:31:56 AM

this thread is dead on

nba haters are still pissed that jordan retired...buncha tarhole lovers

5/19/2006 10:32:03 AM

Quote :

"and then ol' Beardawg locked up the thread I was going to post it in, so yeah, whatever"

then he suspended me! fucking hitler.

5/19/2006 10:39:13 AM

Quote :

"You say it wouldn't shock you but then you say Morrison would have size and speed on his opponent."

he is saying that it would not shock him if morrison scores 20 a game b/c morrison will have size and speed on his opponent.


so his post made sense, it is just completely wrong.

5/19/2006 10:43:38 AM

defense? Wait, did I miss something? When two teams can combine for nearly 60 points in a 12 minute quarter.... There is no defense there.

also

Quote :

" Because they look like they hustle? Is that it? Does it impress you when a Duke squad runs the full court press on an obviously less talented team (like us) and confounds them to a point that the defense looks impressive? "

Weren't we leading Duke AT DUKE at Half time, and well into the second half? I'll admit they had more talent, and they won the game.... But our players were able to break the press and turn pressure on Duke.......

[Edited on May 19, 2006 at 10:59 AM. Reason : .]

5/19/2006 10:58:37 AM

Quote :

"so his post made sense, it is just completely wrong"

haha

5/19/2006 11:00:19 AM

Quote :

"When two teams can combine for nearly 60 points in a 12 minute quarter.... There is no defense there."

so when the highest scoring nba teams combine for 220 over 48 minutes with offensive talent 10x better than ANY college team, it is bad D.

but when college teams combine for 180 over 40 minutes with significantly worse talent, it is the great D?

interesting.

5/19/2006 11:03:07 AM

^,^^^

yeah its called a fucking 24 second shot clock and shooters who can shoot

its called "good offense"...i know its a strange concept that you dont see much in college ball but it does exist

5/19/2006 11:04:17 AM

The idea that even the best defensive team in the NCAA could stop Lebron from driving straight through a double-team to throw in a layup is laughable.

5/19/2006 11:04:18 AM

When those same great athletes put up 110 points for their own team, but still allow to give up 110 points? Yes, that's like playing half a game.

5/19/2006 11:06:04 AM

^maybe you should watch some high level basketball before you make any more posts

5/19/2006 11:06:58 AM

ok lets look at this 100% by the number for a minute, ok?

lets assume that each team, college and nba, uses its full shot clock on every possession

nba: 48 minutes * 60 sec/minute *1 possesion/24 secs = 120 possesions a game

ncaa: 40 minutes * 60 sec/minute * 1 possession/35 secs = 69 possession a game

nba: (for very high scoring teams) 220 total points/120 possession = 1.8 pts/poss

ncaa: (for average scorign teams) 170 total points/69 possessions =2.5 pts/poss


GET IT?

5/19/2006 11:11:17 AM

interesting how solid fact can cause arguments to evaporate

edit: oh and one more thing

in the NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP GAME this year

final score, 73-57, total of 130. that is 1.88 pts/possesion. so even at the highest level college has no D.

[Edited on May 19, 2006 at 11:37 AM. Reason : a]

5/19/2006 11:31:45 AM

Quote :

"NBA doesnt play defense until the playoffs "

stupid post, look at the season avg numbers and playoff numbers, very similar, not to mention that they are playing better teams with better defenses in the playoffs...

5/19/2006 12:02:07 PM

HEY I'M SURE CEDRIC SIMMONS COULD HAVE A FEW 7-BLOCK GAMES AGAINST NBA OFFENSE

5/19/2006 12:26:29 PM

Quote :

" edit: oh and one more thing in the NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP GAME this year final score, 73-57, total of 130. that is 1.88 pts/possesion. so even at the highest level college has no D."

To be fair, it was a PAC 10 team vs and SEC team.

5/19/2006 5:21:36 PM

The NBA rules and lines make it a lot tougher to play defense. The half-court is more spread out, and you can't guard the paint as easily because of the size of it. Also, they have that 3-second rule that prevents a player from standing in the lane and swatting at everything that comes by.

And to make it worse, zones don't work because everyone in the pros can shoot, unlike most college teams that only have 1 or 2 guys that are dangerous from the perimeter.

I've always thought that the biggest factor to make defense tougher in the NBA was the 24 second shot clock. Moving up and down the court that fast and being forced to set your offense up can quickly drain the energy out of you.

5/19/2006 6:22:37 PM

rwoody shit all over this thread.

Nobody can answer his arguments.

5/20/2006 12:12:05 AM

agreed

5/20/2006 12:58:02 AM

Quote :

"The idea that even the best defensive team in the NCAA could stop Lebron from driving straight through a double-team to throw in a layup is laughable."

haha i loled

5/20/2006 3:29:39 AM

Half the threads I post in dissapear....

5/20/2006 8:34:16 AM

^ all your posts should disappear

5/20/2006 3:24:38 PM

BTTT CUZ I SHAT ON THIS THREAD

5/20/2006 11:40:51 PM

sleik is a fucking moron..

5/21/2006 12:44:42 AM

Thanks. I try. :-)

5/21/2006 1:13:59 AM

aha

5/21/2006 9:47:16 AM

The definitive answer is that there is plenty of defense in the NBA.


points per game isn't even the best measure of defense.


FG% is probably the #1 thing...

UNC gave up a lot of points two years ago, but they weren't a bad defensive team really.

There is nothing wrong with having an identity and playing that style. Some will cause low scoring games and some will cause high scoring games.

Phoenix would give up 10ppg less but wouldn't be a playoff team if they played a strict halfcourt game. Yes, they are a bad defensive team, but they make up for it by being an excellent offensive team...

These playoff games are infinitely more exciting than the NCAA tournament games were so everybody just quit hating.

Florida-GMU? Memphis-UCLA? those were crapfests. I gouged my eyes out.

Take away GMU-Uconn and there wasn't one game that made me say wow.

There's been at least 10 NBA playoff games already that have been terrific.

5/21/2006 3:20:30 PM

a couple years ago

the UConn Georgia Tech game

whens the last time an NBA Finals series has been that lopsided

5/21/2006 3:53:32 PM

^^before the final four, the ncaa tournament was wonderful this year.

5/21/2006 4:18:44 PM

too bad the final four was a joke

5/21/2006 4:24:59 PM

we're going to have to agree to disagree because i thought that overall the tournament was lame.

I think its because the end of college games lack execution which in turn eliminates all the excitement.


Everyone just gets nervous and starts holding the ball instead of playing...

5/21/2006 4:25:36 PM

^^too true

5/21/2006 5:34:34 PM

Quote :

"Take away GMU-Uconn and there wasn't one game that made me say wow. There's been at least 10 NBA playoff games already that have been terrific."

I have never agreed more with Rally on something.

5/21/2006 5:36:41 PM

actually I really enjoyed the State Cal game

i hadnt seen State win a game in so long, it was good to see

5/21/2006 5:37:12 PM

Quote :

"Who knew that they might have to conserve energy just to make it through the long haul? It takes some extraordinary conditioning to make it in the league."

dont really like that argument, b/c the length of the season is a reason many people dont like the nba. make it shorter, games become more intense, and players can use their "conserved" energy. Intensity is a part of defense, physically and mentally. Its not that some players are making defense look easy b/c they are so good, i think they just dont wanna play tough d in fear of getting crossed up or yammed on

5/21/2006 8:57:10 PM

The Cleveland Cavaliers scored 61 points today in 48 minutes because of the Detroit Pistons' stellar defense.

5/21/2006 9:06:00 PM