Comments on whether english should be the official language...

http://rightmindedelephant.blogspot.com

6/6/2006 4:35:55 PM

Yes, English should be the official language of the United States of America.

6/6/2006 4:41:17 PM

No, English should not be the official language of the U.S. of A.

#1: there is no need, everyone already learns English
#2: Such a law would do what, exactly? Potential unforseen consequences abound.
#3: Smacks of big government.
#4: Might engender resentment among the non-English crowd, convincing them to fight harder to maintain their lingual heritage

6/6/2006 4:46:09 PM

Quote :

"Potential unforseen consequences abound."

Yep...and not making English the official language could have consequences abound as well

6/6/2006 4:47:44 PM

^^fuck that

if people want to speak french/italian/spanish in their home or to their friends, then so be it, good for them

But I, for one, am sick of seeing every government paper in both english and spanish (let me remind you who pays for that double cost-the TAXPAYERS) and I'm sick of this country catering to the spanish-speaking population. If anything, it propels the mentality that "I don't need to learn English, because the country lets me get by with not learning it."

My mother came to this country as an immigrant and worked her butt off to learn English and contribute to this society, not let the society cater to her. And yet, I can name plenty of people who have lived here for 12 years and can barely say "hello" and "goodbye". That pisses me off.

[Edited on June 6, 2006 at 4:51 PM. Reason : ]

6/6/2006 4:51:11 PM

Quote :

"#1: there is no need, everyone already learns English #2: Such a law would do what, exactly? Potential unforseen consequences abound. #3: Smacks of big government. #4: Might engender resentment among the non-English crowd, convincing them to fight harder to maintain their lingual heritage"

Everyone does not already learn English. Especially illegal immigrants and other legal immigrants.

Would the resentment among the non-English crowd out weigh the decline of resentment present today in the English speaking crowd?

6/6/2006 4:52:53 PM

Quote :

"#1: there is no need, everyone already learns English #2: Such a law would do what, exactly? Potential unforseen consequences abound. #3: Smacks of big government. #4: Might engender resentment among the non-English crowd, convincing them to fight harder to maintain their lingual heritage"

6/6/2006 4:53:26 PM

Quote :

"And yet, I can name plenty of people who have lived here for 12 years and can barely say "hello" and "goodbye"."

Please, do so. Because I think you're full of shit.

Quote :

"But I, for one, am sick of seeing every government paper in both english and spanish (let me remind you who pays for that double cost-the TAXPAYERS)"

And let me remind you that the reason we do that is so immigrants can, among other things, PAY THEIR TAXES. And I'll go further to point out that even if English became official tomorrow, we'd have to continue printing forms in Spanish, because unless you want to make knowing the language a requirement to get into the country (which qualification would have kept your dear momma out), you're still going to have people who are learning English but haven't finished yet who need to do things such as pay their taxes and all those other social obligations they have.

Quote :

"Yep...and not making English the official language could have consequences abound as well"

Of course it does. Everything has consequences. But we can bloody well see the consequences of the current system. They are not unforseen. I can see them, and frankly, they ain't that bad. OMF WE HAVE TO HAVE TWO FORMS!!111

6/6/2006 4:58:58 PM

Quote :

"I'm sick of this country catering to the spanish-speaking population. If anything, it propels the mentality that "I don't need to learn English, because the country lets me get by with not learning it.""

Quote :

"OMF WE HAVE TO HAVE TWO FORMS!!111"

OMF WE MOVED TO THE USA AND HAVE TO SPEAK ENGLISH!!111

6/6/2006 5:00:30 PM

Quote :

""And yet, I can name plenty of people who have lived here for 12 years and can barely say "hello" and "goodbye"." Please, do so. Because I think you're full of shit."

I dated a Vietnemese guy for roughly 2 years and while his mom had learned English when they moved to this country 18 years ago and worked as a computer programmer, his dad (who had also been here for 18 years) knew so little english he couldnt even introduce himself to me. Dad worked at a Vietnemese nail salon under the table. Bullshit now?

That's one case of a documented, legal alien. Don't even get me started on the undocumented Mexicans (and I've worked with quite a few).

6/6/2006 5:07:59 PM

Jeopardy question -- Can anyone name the 6 languages the US Census forms are printed in?

[Edited on June 6, 2006 at 5:10 PM. Reason : oh and an "official" language is fucking idiotic, reminds me of the French...]

6/6/2006 5:08:51 PM

What are

English
Spanish
French
Chinese
Arabic
Indian

i dunno

6/6/2006 5:10:12 PM

LOOK YOU FUCKING SWEDES, YOU CAN'T HAVE SWEDISH AS YOUR NATIONAL LANGUAGE ANYMORE!

This is stupid. The largest majority of America speaks English, and it was founded on documents written in the same language. I sincerely doubt we'll add Spanish, what with this new "keep people out of out country!" initiative nonsense. If I were planning to move to France, I'd have to learn French- what's the trouble with immigrants learning English?

I volunteered to teach Hispanic people how to speak English in my hometown throughout high school, and if they're motivated enough, they're quick learners. English isn't the easiest language to learn, sadly, since it has some strange irregularities and about twice the total words of some other languages.

At the same time, I think America could do more in what it considers passable knowledge of another language- I don't feel Americans learn or retain enough of other languages to use them effectively.

Quote :

"Indian"

You know that isn't even a language, right?

[Edited on June 6, 2006 at 5:12 PM. Reason : .]

6/6/2006 5:10:39 PM

^^
you got 3 out of 6 in that list

English, Spanish, Chinese, Tagalog, Vietnamese and Korean 

6/6/2006 5:11:01 PM

^^no i didnt, it didnt sound right but i was guessing at the list

Quote :

"If I were planning to move to France, I'd have to learn French- what's the trouble with immigrants learning English?"

exactly...thats the simplest analogy...its not that hard to understand...but too many people would rather make a bunch of adjustments to their own american culture in order to preserve cultures of other countries

6/6/2006 5:21:26 PM

b/c Big Guv'ment is part of American culture...

I just feel bad for all the blind and deaf people, they're fux0r3d.

"Stop with all that sign language shit, learn to speak English goddammit!" 

6/6/2006 5:23:17 PM

Quote :

"That's one case of a documented, legal alien. Don't even get me started on the undocumented Mexicans (and I've worked with quite a few)."

You named one guy who had almost no reason to learn English as things were and would probably continue to not have a reason if it were official. Everyone in his family speaks English. They will, undoubtedly, handle most of his interactions with the government. Everyone at his work speaks Vietnamese. So why would he bother if you made the language official? What are you going to do, throw him in jail if he doesn't speak English? And how fluent does his English have to be to save him from punishment?

Anyway, to the point -- "one" =/= "plenty of people"

Quote :

"If I were planning to move to France, I'd have to learn French- what's the trouble with immigrants learning English?"

Hmmm, I wonder if French ethnocentrism has anything to do with all that unpleasantness that's been going on over there lately....hmmmm....

I also have another thing to say about this....

Quote :

"But I, for one, am sick of seeing every government paper in both english and spanish (let me remind you who pays for that double cost-the TAXPAYERS)"

WHICH DO YOU THINK IS MORE EXPENSIVE

PRINTING TWO FORMS

OR TEACHING EVERY IMMIGRANT ENGLISH?

As it stands, immigrants can -- and generally do -- learn by themselves at the pace they need to learn it at. If you make English official, you will have to pay for a great deal more in the way of English classes. You're also going to have to pay for the instruments by which we assess whether or not an immigrant has learned enough English to get by.

It never ceases to amaze me how utterly offended some of you people are by seeing something that has nothing to do with you written in Spanish...

Quote :

"too many people would rather make a bunch of adjustments to their own american culture"

What adjustments have you made? Name three. Name fucking three. Because seeing signs written in Spanish is not an adjustment.

6/6/2006 5:31:36 PM

i learned spanish throughout school because we had to take a second language

motherfuckers who move into this country should learn to speak english

how can you not see how much sense that makes

why are you so eager to make the immigrants feel at home when they dont learn any parts of our culture

all my ancestors learned english when they got to the united states (except for the ones from England haha)...and thats how it was

"WHEN IN ROME"

6/6/2006 5:34:59 PM

Quote :

"Stop with all that sign language shit, learn to speak English goddammit!"

6/6/2006 5:36:24 PM

Answer the goddamn questions.

What are these terribly difficult adjustments you have had to make to accomodate non-English speakers?

Do you really think that a national language would be cheaper?

Do you think it's possible that making English official could cause unrest?

And now, adding onto that...

How do you know that all your ancestors learned English? You sure there wasn't one or two back there who maybe never spoke it fluently or even proficiently, but lived here all the same? Do you have any concept of the numbers of immigrants to this country who never managed to learn functional English -- but their kids did?

I know the first people over here on my mom's side were German, and they were middle aged by the time they got here. They didn't learn much English. Their kids, though, grew up in it.

My guess is, you don't know that ALL your ancestors learned English, but you'll claim to, anyway.

[Edited on June 6, 2006 at 5:40 PM. Reason : ]

6/6/2006 5:39:48 PM

have you ever heard the phrase "When in Rome, do as the Romans do"?

that means when you are in another / foreign place, you should try to adjust to their customs

its really fucking easy to understand

6/6/2006 5:41:44 PM

ANYTHING THAT IS PART OF A SAYING IS AUTOMATICALLY THE GOSPEL FUCKING TRUTH

YOU HEARD IT HERE FIRST.

[Edited on June 6, 2006 at 5:44 PM. Reason : colloquialisms are now a valid argument]

6/6/2006 5:42:22 PM

so when you go to a foreign country you demand that everything be in english for you

6/6/2006 5:45:55 PM

I demand that I be provided a translator or translation, yes. And so do you. Or would you, on principle, never take a vacation to country whose language you did not speak?

6/6/2006 5:47:35 PM

no i actually make an effort to do some research and planning before i go, maybe buy an english/whatever dictionary and attempt to speak the native language

i dont "demand a translator" like some stuck up hollywood actress

6/6/2006 5:50:34 PM

Uh-huh...

I'm not saying I don't plan and do research, but it's entirely possible that one day I'll end up in Germany on a trip, and I have no intention of learning the entire German language (or even a substantial part of it) before I go for a weeklong trip or something. And I'm also not talking about demanding a translator for day-to-day things, but rather for any sort of important contact with the government -- if there's a legal issue or document to be dealt with, for instance. Otherwise, of course I'd just get by on my own best I could.

But you, now, you appear to be saying something pretty ridiculous. Look at this situation:

You take a trip to France. You don't speak French, but you have your little dictionary. Going through customs, the agent there seems to have some problem with something you're carrying or doing. He doesn't speak English. He's getting progressively more upset, but he's talking too fast for you to use your little dictionary, or he's using words that aren't in it (because, guess what! They're not complete).

You are basically saying that, in that situation, you would basically just have to go to jail, even if the whole thing were just a misunderstanding, because, hey, why should their government agencies accomodate you linguistically in any way, shape, or form?

[Edited on June 6, 2006 at 5:56 PM. Reason : ]

6/6/2006 5:55:55 PM

So we've established that English should be our official language, because it will save taxpayers money by not wasting paper and we'll feel like foreigners respect us.

6/6/2006 6:05:43 PM

I don't see what the big deal is about learning English.

6/6/2006 6:20:31 PM

anyone who doesn't speak English is a turrist...

6/6/2006 6:49:01 PM

Look for the great article on this topic.

Should English Be The Official Language?
http://rightmindedelephant.blogspot.com/2006/06/should-english-be-official-language_05.html

[Edited on June 6, 2006 at 7:09 PM. Reason : :]]

6/6/2006 7:07:08 PM

Quote :

"anyone who doesn't speak English is a turrist..."

I didn't say that, I just said I didn't see why it was a big deal to learn English.

6/6/2006 7:08:40 PM

We don't need to make English the official language because there is already an incentive for immigrants to learn English--it's called employment. If someone is able to find a job where he does not need to learn English, good for him; I'm sure he'll encounter other inconveniences as a result of his unwillingness to learn English, and I imagine that is just the price he'll have to pay.

Yes, government documents are available in multiple languages but let's be real: many native English speakers aren't quite sure what those documents say...so yeah, I say make the translations available if not for non-speakers then for new speakers who aren't the surest with the language yet.

Furthermore, most immigrants who come to this country and refuse to learn English end up having children who invariably do learn English. Let's not pretend that there are armies of immigrants, setting up communities where generations of people refuse to learn English and demand that we accomodate them.

[Edited on June 6, 2006 at 7:59 PM. Reason : sss]

6/6/2006 7:55:37 PM

definetly

6/6/2006 8:00:32 PM

Considering how few American speak anything other than English, and how millions of folks all over the world speak our language, we really don't have much right to complain.

6/6/2006 8:27:55 PM

Quote :

"We don't need to make English the official language because there is already an incentive for immigrants to learn English--it's called employment. If someone is able to find a job where he does not need to learn English, good for him; I'm sure he'll encounter other inconveniences as a result of his unwillingness to learn English, and I imagine that is just the price he'll have to pay."

This must be the smartest thing that BridgetSPK has ever said in her entire life. Concise, incisive, and convincing.

6/6/2006 8:58:15 PM

Quote :

"Considering how few American speak anything other than English, and how millions of folks all over the world speak our language, we really don't have much right to complain."

I still don't see why learning English is such a big deal.

6/6/2006 9:55:11 PM

Who cares about the official language?

How is it going to affect your life?

How is it going to affect any business doing "business" in the USoA?

6/6/2006 10:00:50 PM

It affects them about as much as gay marriage.


(btw, you're painfully stupid if you think the children of immigrants aren't learning English)

[Edited on June 6, 2006 at 10:13 PM. Reason : .]

6/6/2006 10:11:45 PM

Quote :

"You take a trip to France. You don't speak French, but you have your little dictionary. Going through customs, the agent there seems to have some problem with something you're carrying or doing. He doesn't speak English. He's getting progressively more upset, but he's talking too fast for you to use your little dictionary, or he's using words that aren't in it (because, guess what! They're not complete)."

theres a big difference in the need for multiple languages in the customs section of an international airport, and having multiple languages in all things day to day

Quote :

"We don't need to make English the official language because there is already an incentive for immigrants to learn English--it's called employment. If someone is able to find a job where he does not need to learn English, good for him; I'm sure he'll encounter other inconveniences as a result of his unwillingness to learn English, and I imagine that is just the price he'll have to pay."

the problem is the immigrants who do find the jobs where they dont need English, and there are plenty of them...and yeah they'll encounter other inconveniences, but so will the American taxpayers...any government program for citizens that they take advantage of is costing the people who pay taxes, its not costing the people who work under the table

6/6/2006 10:35:34 PM

^^The only person who has mentioned children of immigrants is me, and I said that they "invariably do learn English," meaning they do learn English. Are we having communications/language problems here? If so, that would be hilarious, considering the context of this thread.

[Edited on June 6, 2006 at 10:39 PM. Reason : sss]

6/6/2006 10:37:51 PM

I thought there was a legal requirement to know English if you came to the US on a visa./

6/6/2006 10:38:55 PM

6/6/2006 10:41:28 PM

ROFL

[Edited on June 6, 2006 at 10:42 PM. Reason : trolltwista]

6/6/2006 10:42:23 PM

Quote :

"TreeTwista10: the problem is the immigrants who do find the jobs where they dont need English, and there are plenty of them...and yeah they'll encounter other inconveniences, but so will the American taxpayers...any government program for citizens that they take advantage of is costing the people who pay taxes, its not costing the people who work under the table"

In what ways are the taxpayers paying for these non-English speakers...

6/6/2006 10:43:09 PM

^

Quote :

"any government program for citizens that they take advantage of is costing the people who pay taxes, its not costing the people who work under the table"

6/6/2006 10:44:37 PM

^We're talking about non-English speakers here, not illegal workers, genius.

(And the whole "illegal workers not paying taxes" thing is up for debate, by the way.)

[Edited on June 6, 2006 at 10:46 PM. Reason : sss]

6/6/2006 10:46:03 PM

whats up for debate about it

6/6/2006 10:46:44 PM

Quote :

"The only person who has mentioned children of immigrants is me, and I said that they "invariably do learn English," meaning they do learn English. Are we having communications/language problems here? If so, that would be hilarious, considering the context of this thread."

Wasn't directing that at you. I was speaking to the people who somehow believe immigrants and their families don't want to learn english

6/6/2006 10:49:11 PM

you think all immigrants want to learn english? cause thats just as absurd as saying no immigrants want to learn english

6/6/2006 10:50:12 PM

It's a good thing someone with reading comprehension skills wouldn't come to either of those conclusions.

6/6/2006 10:53:36 PM