My brother, 17, will be getting a car soon, as i got mine at this age. He has been wanting a Mazda 3, but i encouraged him to look at this scion. Looks decent, and its more sporty than the 3. Just wanted to get your comments on each, any any other cars your would look at in that price range, close to my spec-v $19,115.

I drove an automatic tC today, and my immediate comments were, brake pedal was too stiff for overall brake power, and the blind spot above the left mirror due to the pillar is huge or atleast for me, but overall nice

[Edited on July 4, 2006 at 7:43 PM. Reason : MOVE TO GARAGE]

7/4/2006 7:42:19 PM

mazda 3's and scions are getting so fucking played out paris hilton is getting jealous

7/4/2006 7:49:08 PM

You know there's an entire section of the Wolf Web dedicated to automotive stuff, right? And this ain't it.

7/4/2006 7:59:44 PM

knowledge is power

7/4/2006 8:11:38 PM

save your money and get the new Civic.

7/4/2006 8:23:58 PM

Get an Eclipse GTS

7/4/2006 8:32:26 PM

El Nachó- look at the edit, and time

hgtran- we dont like the new civic

7/4/2006 8:51:47 PM

eclipse?

7/4/2006 9:18:49 PM

I sat in a tC at the carshow that went through here the other month.

It felt, er, small...

It was neat and quite sporty feeling, but I had a feeling like my elbows would be sore from smacking the door when I drove it.

Maybe aim for a used, slightly larger sports car, or sports sedan?

His budget is $18k or so it looks like, and you could definitely get a solid as hell used car that got him more for the money than a new Mazda 3 or Scion.

7/4/2006 9:40:04 PM

18k is a solid price.

Tc is also a solid car.

7/4/2006 10:11:09 PM

well we also drove an 2001 Audi S4, with something like 77k miles and only $17g. but for some reason he didnt like it... not my decision

7/4/2006 10:31:29 PM

Idk if this style is what you are looking for or not but I just got a 2002 VW Jetta, pre-certified used car with 51k miles for a little under $15k and LOVE it

7/4/2006 10:59:06 PM

$18 K can get you a nice, used M3.

7/4/2006 11:01:45 PM

...but it's still an M3.

7/4/2006 11:21:08 PM

a 17yr old needs a reliable used civic that he can beat the hell out of

7/5/2006 12:13:49 AM

Quote :

"a 17yr old needs a reliable used civic that he can beat the hell out of"

Seriously. Fuckers evidently got more money 'n they know what to do with. Or more money 'n sense.

7/5/2006 12:17:42 AM

^^^what in the hell is wrong with you?

and why buy a brand new car for a 17 year old? there are MUCH MUCH better ways to use the money.

and why is this not in the Garage?

7/5/2006 12:19:05 AM

A 1998 Honda Civic CX with manual transmission.

Thats how you do it.

[Edited on July 5, 2006 at 12:50 AM. Reason : or HX]

7/5/2006 12:50:30 AM

Since when is it common practice for n00b drivers to get brand new cars? Except in the hills I suppose.

7/5/2006 12:52:17 AM

^^

7/5/2006 12:54:26 AM

^^

7/5/2006 1:20:24 AM

Quote :

"Since when is it common practice for n00b drivers to get brand new cars? Except in the hills I suppose."

since kids' parents got money... so umm.. quite a while... i'll be 21 this fall and that's still way out of my price range...

i like the Tc, i've seen some look very nice... i think it would be my preference over the 3 just because it's a little bit different... tjb627's jetta is a sweet ride with the turbo, but if your brother likes the sporty stuff... i'd hit a civic or 3000gt (flame away, but i've always liked em)

7/5/2006 1:31:01 AM

^^^

7/5/2006 1:31:39 AM

meh

i saw a station wagon 3 i like them.

7/5/2006 11:17:17 AM

I test drove a tC and thought it was pretty blah. Nothing too exciting short of an exciting dashboard. I've had a Mustang, an Eclipse GT and now a BMW and I still think the BMW is the best vehicle, hands down. I would spend the money on a used car - I personally don't think it's a good idea to buy brand new because they depreciate too much and ehh...I don't know. Just seems like a poor decision for a new driver who is going to probably have a few accidents here and there. Is your brother willing to invest the money in his vehicle, or will your parents be paying for all minor expenses like oil changes and tires and whatnot? tC's are supposed to replace Celica's for Toyota, but I just think there are a lot of other options, the Mazda 3 being preferable. I would rather have a used car that is a little older but a lot nicer.

7/5/2006 11:31:04 AM

The excitement about the TC is how customizable it is. It also has some beefy horsepower. Hell look at the website and the tool to customize your own car. I almost bought one. The thing that stopped me was the fact that the salesman didn't put any effort behind selling them since they sold themselves and I'm one of the customers that demand the salesperson earn my business especially when it's a purchase of this scale.

I wanted test drive it. They could NEVER get one for me to test drive and expected me to put money down on something I had not test driven. I went with a used car for now. I have to admit the manual i test drove was awesome.

Mazda 3's feel like you're riding on a box. It's not comfortable to me and the power just isn't there for me. Plus they're having trouble like the Ford Focus's are. Drive Train issues etc.

I do have to say that if it's his first car he needs someone he can trash unless he's the type of guy who really takes care of his stuff. Then I'd say go for it.

7/5/2006 11:48:27 AM

^The Mazda 3 2.3 has more hp than the tC. The engine in the tC is solid, but its a crappy engine (the base engine for the Camry). The Mazda 3 has a nicer engine. I haven't ridden in a tC but I imagine it handles well. I have ridden in ncstatetke's Mazda 3 2.3 and it handles great for a car in this segment. Both come with a good amount of standard features.

I'd say reliability isn't an issue for either one, although I'd give the edge to Toyota.

There's nothing wrong with getting a new driver a new car. Its better off for the parents b/c they don't have to worry about maintenance issues at all.

Also, do your brother a favor and make sure he gets a manual transmission.

7/5/2006 1:19:47 PM

my roommate just got a tC and is very happy with it

7/5/2006 1:21:04 PM

The tC being 'customizable' is a bit of a tuner joke. Its about as 'customizable' as any sporty compact but the difference being you're paying 20% more for the dealer to put the flash bits on rather then a private shop. All things are probably relative as far as that goes but drivetrain improvements bump the cost of the car up so much that you end up in the 20-22k segment and there are CLEARLY better choices there.

If you must get a new car, I would go with the MZ3. I had a 2005 2.3 before I sold it for an Evo IX and it was a sheer blast to drive.

7/5/2006 1:26:28 PM

Quote :

""a 17yr old needs a reliable used civic that he can beat the hell out of""

I would not recommend an audi, the cost of maintence is too high if you keep it up. I have owned a Landrover and a Volvo (both under a limited warranty) and it was quite expensive. I believe standard service for the landrover was close to $400.

I drive the XA and my fiance bought the XB. They are great cars for the money. The XB is massive and can hold 4 sets of golf clubs and 5 people comfortably. I would have him save two grand and just get the XB. He will need the space when he goes to college and would find the TC too small to actually cart anyone/anything around in. I know its not sporty or fast but with gas prices and being an inexperienced driver, its more than he really needs.

We both have the package though Toyota that covers Tires and Oil Changes for so many years. I think its like $600 extra and totally worth it.

Quote :

"The thing that stopped me was the fact that the salesman didn't put any effort behind selling them since they sold themselves and I'm one of the customers that demand the salesperson earn my business especially when it's a purchase of this scale."

While that stinks, I think the commission for scions is ridiculously low. It seems I read that in consumer reports.

7/5/2006 1:26:58 PM

^if you're gonna try and push him towards a xB or xA I'd strongely suggest a Honda Fit. Much better car, a lot more fun to drive, and it doesn't look like crap

7/5/2006 1:30:00 PM

Uhm, the entire point of the Scion line is to sell them differently then regular cars. The salesmen are trained not to sell you the car or hassle you in anyway. The idea is to sell the car like you would any other consumer machine.

7/5/2006 1:31:26 PM

Quote :

"While that stinks, I think the commission for scions is ridiculously low. It seems I read that in consumer reports"

How is it determined what cars get what kind of commission? So a salesperson earns less money at a Toyota dealer for selling a Scion than say, a Prius?

7/5/2006 1:32:29 PM

there is little effort b/c you can't haggle the price of a scion - they are sold at msrp and there are no exceptions

7/5/2006 1:35:34 PM

Why is this? Sorry - I don't know much about it.

7/5/2006 1:38:38 PM

^salesmen try to sell the car as high as possible, b/c it increases their commission. So they'll do their best to sell you on the car and really make you want it. Since the price is set on the Scion its like wasting their time I guess.

7/5/2006 1:41:01 PM

this DOESN't look like crap??

7/5/2006 1:42:16 PM

Why are prices set on Scions? Do the prices include doc fees and all that other crap too? Is it to make it more affordable/have a concrete price to new or first time buyers? Are there any other cars like this?

7/5/2006 1:42:42 PM

^^looks a lot better than the 2 Scion sedans. And I've heard its a lot of fun to drive.

^its to appear consumer friendly. Saturn has been doing this since they were created in 1992 (was it 92?).

[Edited on July 5, 2006 at 1:44 PM. Reason : k]

7/5/2006 1:43:46 PM

you'd consider the xB a sedan? i'd say it's more like a little van or something.

7/5/2006 1:45:54 PM

Quote :

"I test drove a tC and thought it was pretty blah."

i would agree. i like the body and that's about it.

7/5/2006 1:55:01 PM

^^look it has 4 doors. I didn't feel like calling it a hatchback or a wagon and having people tell me I'm wrong. Guess I fell into that trap anyway. Who cares what its called.

7/5/2006 1:56:31 PM

Just get a Sentra.

They're like 14-15k brand new or something ridiculous.

[Edited on July 5, 2006 at 2:07 PM. Reason : .]

7/5/2006 2:07:25 PM

Get one of those new VW Golf TDI craziness things. If it's good enough for the Pope, it's good enough for you.

7/5/2006 2:08:58 PM

Civic SI

7/5/2006 2:59:34 PM

The Si is a good 4k above price.

You won't be able to haggle it down either anytime soon.

7/5/2006 3:06:40 PM

no doubt there, the price isnt moving at all, they are keeping the supply to an absolute minimum

7/5/2006 3:15:18 PM

I was talking to a friend the other day about how, in my opinion, American cars are pretty shitty. She replied, "There's lots of good American cars...like Hondas."

7/5/2006 3:16:51 PM

the majority of honda's are assembled either in the states or canada, a lot of the components are now made in the states also

7/5/2006 3:17:57 PM

Could hold out for the Dodge Caliber SRT4....might be cool. 300hp hatchback.

7/5/2006 3:19:20 PM