Any takers on providing some .02 about a good family sedan? I'm in the market for something bigger than an Accord (we've owned a 2004, so something a little bigger than that), but we don't want new. Something in the $12K budget would be probably about all I could really afford to pay.

We wrecked a borrowed 97 Nissan Quest minivan, and it's been nice for our family, but since it's in the shop, and we had good coverage, we've been pimpin' around in some rentals... tried a 2005 Jeep Grand Cherokee, which was nice, but wasn't real good on gas (17MPG is crazy low in my book), so we swapped it for a 2006 Pontiac Grand Prix sedan. Man, I was actually impressed. Typically, I've been very skeptical on domestics, so I've been prejudiced against them without really ever even driving one. But man, for the low-end GPrix to haul like it did, I'm honestly at a loss. This is a nice car.

At any rate, I'm looking for a little help. Any recommendations on models/years for good solid domestics that are about the GPrix's size for a good price? We might be in the market for one, and we'll give back the borrowed Quest.

Thanks in advance,
~niko ^_^

7/25/2006 9:00:10 PM

7/25/2006 9:05:23 PM

Check out the Mazda 6, my cubemate just got one and I really like it. You could probably get an '03 or '04 with the sports package for that price. The wagon might be good if you have a family.

(I know you asked for domestics, but I stay away from those)

7/25/2006 9:05:52 PM

^^ that is a badass car i want a couple of those

7/25/2006 9:16:25 PM

how much money are you looking to spend?

why does it have to be domestic?


for that matter, what on earth do you need something bigger than an accord for?

7/25/2006 10:46:27 PM

well, for starters, considering that we are hopeful that for a 12K budget, we could find ourselves in a lower mileage, later model domestic for the same price as a higher mileage, earlier model import. And truth be told, me likey the powa the domestics have over the similar import offerings.

Certainly don't want to rule out the import, but we are trying to buy up without actually buying up.

The size of the car is something my wife is more apt to desire than myself. I still drive the del sol, and love it. She's more into the Camaro size and powa from her high school days, and I've always been the smaller engine guy. I do like the smoother ride these bigger cars put out, now that I've driven one... so i'm trying to see what's out there that's worth it. We don't want an SUV, and minivans are so cliche (to my wife, that is... i grew up in one, or two, or three). We've owned the Accord, and we liked it. But it would be hard to go back after all the space of the minivan.

Is that any help?

[Edited on July 25, 2006 at 10:56 PM. Reason : d]

7/25/2006 10:55:30 PM

Why domestic?

7/25/2006 10:58:43 PM

^, ^^

7/25/2006 11:00:27 PM

There are plenty of foreign cars that fit everything you need and they are less likely to be giant peices of shit. But since your wife likes camaros I'm thinking you are used to piece of shit cars.

[Edited on July 25, 2006 at 11:19 PM. Reason : .]

7/25/2006 11:12:55 PM

here's my advice about domestic: DON'T BUY THEM.

7/25/2006 11:28:40 PM

^^ examples, please

I'd also like to point out that if we can get a lower mileage later model domestic for the same price as a higher mileage older model import, we'd rather go domestic. We aren't into any car for the long haul... we typically trade after a couple of years. The del Slow has been the only one we haven't canned, and for good reason: gas prices and top-down goodness.

We don't want new, but the best bang-for-the-buck seems to be going with a used domestic late model (i.e., 2-3 years old). I can find more car for the money going this route... Is there anything wrong with this line of logic?

/ducks for cover

[Edited on July 25, 2006 at 11:44 PM. Reason : d]

[Edited on July 25, 2006 at 11:45 PM. Reason : d]

7/25/2006 11:41:07 PM

Well in many cases an import with a few more miles is still going to be more reliable.

'03 Mazda 6 35k miles $11.9k

'01 Nissan Maxima 60k miles $12.5

something quick and stylish, yet older
'00 Mercedes C-230 Kompressor 60k miles $12.9

I mean shit even a '00 120kish mile BMW 528i is going to be better than a taurus or something and still in your price range.

All of those cars are full size sedans with plenty of power.

7/26/2006 12:27:25 AM

Our family has three ford taurus vehicles right now.

They're cheap as crap (used), you can get one that's pretty much new at $12k, they're very safe, they're conservative but don't look completely like ass (unless of course you're into flashier autos), the insurance on them won't be bad, they've got a decent amount of pickup for a sedan (it's not a sports car but it's not an underpowered four banger either), the fuel mileage is acceptable, and the maintenance problems are also acceptable (the newest model ford taurus has been especially good, the previous one (that looked like a spaceship) had a cheap ass interior). The interior is pretty big and pretty nice.

They don't last forever, but then again if you cycle out your cars every two years you don't have any worries. And with your price target of $12k you could easily get one with lots of features with low mileage.

Oh yeah, it also comes as a wagon. We had a couple of the "space-ship" generation wagons. They were pretty cool honestly, I actually wouldn't mind driving one right now instead of my jeep (if only for the gas mileage improvement and better roadway driving). Basically just as good as the sedan, just a little slower, and with a lot more cargo room plus a spare third row of seats for if you bring along extra kids.

[Edited on July 26, 2006 at 12:41 AM. Reason : Now for the replies...]

7/26/2006 12:40:49 AM

I'll sell ya a 2000 Tahoe for under $12K

New motor in it, but 167K or so on the rest lol

7/26/2006 1:16:38 AM

I won't make the "they're not reliable" argument, but I do think that Taures' look quite horrid. Easy to jump on the band wagon and call you tasteless due to your Camaro liking girlfriend, so I won't do that. I will tell you this though, with few exceptions (newer Chryslers come to mind), if an American brand sedan is faster than it's European/Japanese counterpart, it's at a huge tradeoff to roughness of the said power plant, and coarse engine tone. The noted exceptions to this are the newer Chrysler products, which are hailed as being SO good, but then they're built off previous generation Benz chasis. Kind of ironic.

You have to ask yourself why imports command more money new and used, there are good reasons for it. I would much rather drive a 98 Accord than an 03 Taurus, not that either is particularly appealing. As a side note, 4 cyl Taures' are not meaningfully faster than... their competitors. Anyway if you don't appreciate the refinement of the European offerings, no reason to spend the extra money for one. This is sort of like the 911 vs. Corvette (z06 if you like) "argument". Yes the vette has more power, and more grip. Yes it's cheaper too. Some things don't translate to numbers that well though, such as steering precision, control feedback, response to input by the chasis and so on. You either get this, and appreciate it, or you don't. There's no explaining it. Test drive a few cars, see what you like better. Almost anything new will be quite reliable.
Ahmet

7/26/2006 2:17:59 AM

Even I can disagree with Ahmet here about German engineering...but I won't

esgargs

7/26/2006 2:26:12 AM

errrrr didn't the 4-banger Taurus thankfully bite the dust in '91?

7/26/2006 2:27:43 AM

i think they rock the 16 valve 3.0 vulcan engine silly or the 24 valve? duratec engine. 3.0 is a better engine.

7/26/2006 10:29:21 AM

good advice all.

reliability is not really a huge issue here, as long as we're not putting money on a lemon line of car. Remember, I'm trying to buy 2-3 years old, not 5-7.

I've certainly enjoyed the ride of a Maxima (owned a 90, and it was badass for a college-days beater), but I just don't get paying $texas for a car that's got over 100K miles, no matter how "high quality" it is. Sounds like more maintenance involved, which is costlier in "high quality" autos as well as insurance rates for such a vehicle.

Any domestics that come to mind that are of reasonable quality?

7/26/2006 10:58:04 AM

Quote :

"Even I can disagree with Ahmet here about German engineering...but I won't"

no you cant. fords suck ass

[Edited on July 26, 2006 at 11:01 AM. Reason : except their trucks]

7/26/2006 11:00:47 AM

His only argument is he has a Mustang...

For $12K you should have no problem finding a decent lower mileage (although IMO low mileage these days from an import should be anything under 120K or so) car from an individual. Don't be stupid and buy from a dealer when you can get the same thing from an individual for a few thousand less. Don't be afraid of looking at cars on eBay either. I know impala's and grand prix's go cheap as hell at dealers auctions, which I CAN go to. I mean, a 2003 base model grand-prix's private party value is only around $8k with 50K miles on it. Even the 2004 GTP (supercharged) version's private party value is around 13K. I'd be fairly certain you could find a 2003 or 2004 easily under $12K. Hell, if you want, I'm going to the dealers auction next week and I'll keep an eye out for you. I go on Tuesday nights to look and the actual auction is on Wednesday..so I could let you know if there is anything there worth looking at.

7/26/2006 12:52:53 PM

thanks, this is all useful info.

We probably aren't in the market until the first of the year (we are paying down all our CCards first), but we wanted to scope out the market for the right kind of car.

Certainly less than 10K is attractive to me, and would really be an asset to our budgeting, all while being on our own again when it comes to cars. We took on the borrowed Quest as assistance while we were working off the CC debt, so we plan on finishing that before taking on more debt.

For the gearheads, are the supercharged models going to give me more or less the same trouble as the standard base models without the supercharger? As far as the GPrix's go, the 3.8 V6 appears to be the same motor for the base and supercharged line. They do get less mileage though...

7/26/2006 1:50:39 PM

If it's the same motor with a supercharger slapped on it there's no way it will last as long. I imagine it has, at the very least, lower compression pistons. Still, it isn't going to last as long. But, IMO, it probably won't matter in the time you'll own it if you get a reasonably low mileage one.

7/27/2006 12:07:26 AM

i wouldn't bother with a supercharged one, for a couple of reasons:

1. it's FWD. a moderate amount of power is all it can really effectively handle.

2. as much as i looooove fast cars, i don't really care to have anything beyond "adequate" if it's not a performance platform. in other words, if it's a sports car, i want it to be stupid silly fast. if not, i don't really care. i'd probably actually rather have the better fuel economy of less powerful model, because if performance was what i was after, i would be getting a sports car to begin with.


(for example, i've owned a 12 second Miata and what i think is probably about a 13-flat S2000, which I really wish was about 50 hp stronger. i'm getting ready to sell it for a variety of reasons and replace it with a 3-series. while i'd like to have a 328is or M3, i'm fine with a 323is, and will get one if i find one for the right price.)

7/27/2006 12:14:23 AM

e36 or 46? On the e36 chasis I'd go for an M3 coupe, on the e46 330s are really descent deals, and good cars...
Ahmet

7/27/2006 1:02:57 AM

either. prob E36. i'll get whatever i find a really good deal on, but i'm fine with the weakling variants of the car (323...i'll stay away from the 318...it has enough power, i guess, but the I-6s are so much smoother). like i said, it's more about getting a good, practical, inexpensive DD. if performance was much of a factor, i'd just keep my car.

7/27/2006 1:09:43 AM

Dude, but... the price diff. is not huge between an e46 323 and a 330, and you get A LOT more car (better suspension, more standard stuff, better spring/shock set, better bushings, better gearing/6 speed, xenons, etc.). Ditto, and maybe even more so in the case of M3 vs. plain e36s... For a daily, if you really want comfort, I'd go for a 330, but fine I admit 323s are good cars too...
Ahmet

7/27/2006 1:11:27 AM

this asshole wants to know about a domestic and here y'all two go argueing about a ragged ass bmw.

7/27/2006 8:34:05 AM