simply put, terrorists try to kill large numbers of innocent civilians in their attempt to terrorize their targets' government into changing its position on some political issue(s).

now look at the current figures from the Israel/Lebanaon conflict

hezbollah has killed 97 people. They are largely targeting and killing israeli military

61/97 (63%) are israeli military
36/97 (37%) are civilians

while the israelis have killed 617 people, they have overwhelmingly targeted and killed lebanese civilians

53/617 ( 9%) are lebanese soldiers, hezbollah guerrilas.
524/617 (91%) are lebanese civilians

would the real terrorists please stand up?

Quote :

"Israel intensifies airstrikes in Lebanon ASSOCIATED PRESS ... That brought the Israeli death toll to 97, including 49 soldiers, the 12 reservists and 36 civilians. Israel's attacks on Lebanon have killed at least 617 people, including 524 civilians, 29 Lebanese soldiers and at least 53 Hezbollah guerrillas. ... http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/1107AP_Lebanon_Israel.html?source=mypi "

[Edited on August 7, 2006 at 4:27 PM. Reason : ]

8/7/2006 4:23:54 PM

hey remember when the prime minister of lebanon said there were 40 people killed in a missile strike then later he said there was actually 1 person killed

8/7/2006 4:24:48 PM

remember every single conflict with terrorists ever when some unclever college kid asked "who are the real terrorists?"

8/7/2006 4:27:19 PM

after taking history 207 with detreville, i'm amazed the jews are even still around today

8/7/2006 4:27:37 PM

^^^ no i dont remember that.

but that would of course change... nothing.

and never mind that international monitoring groups count only confirmed dead. hence, the "at least" qualifier.

[Edited on August 7, 2006 at 4:31 PM. Reason : ]

8/7/2006 4:28:53 PM

no, this is really good.

this is the first time that someone in the soapbox has ever compared israel with terrorists.

its so simple, i can't believe that it has never been done before.

8/7/2006 4:30:15 PM

Quote :

"unclever college kid"

youre right. i am unclever. but it doesnt take a clever kid to do simple ratios.

8/7/2006 4:30:42 PM

^^^so if israel killed 100 hezbollah

and the lebanese PM said they killed 4,000 hezbollah

those numbers wouldnt be any different?

8/7/2006 4:30:54 PM

I don't have the numbers to back me up because I don't feel like looking but have a suspicion that those stats given are severely wrong

8/7/2006 4:31:27 PM

my hypothetical stats that are intentionally wrong to make a point?

8/7/2006 4:32:14 PM

Quote :

" I don't have the numbers to back me up"

Quote :

"because I don't feel like looking"

so why are you here? did Chit Chat slow down?






[Edited on August 7, 2006 at 4:39 PM. Reason : ]

8/7/2006 4:33:23 PM

what business do you have making this thread?

did the special olympics summer camp let out early for the day?

hey 2500 posts gg

[Edited on August 7, 2006 at 4:34 PM. Reason : .]

8/7/2006 4:34:23 PM

no not yours the ones joe schmoe posted

8/7/2006 4:36:04 PM

this is a cxmai worthy thread

8/7/2006 4:36:09 PM

ok

cause i personally think theres a big difference in 1 civilian casualty in an airstrike (although any death is tragic yadda yadda) and 40 casualties...which was initially implied by the PM, probably to sway the media even more

8/7/2006 4:36:57 PM

Quote :

"I don't have the numbers to back me up because I don't feel like looking but have a suspicion that those stats given are severely wrong"

Yes they are, because nearly a 1,000 Lebanese are dead by now.

But I have a feeling that's not what you wanted to hear.

8/7/2006 4:38:26 PM

Hey Trapezius, I like how you stfu after I posted pictures of Hizbollah terrorists hiding behind civilians in that other thread

8/7/2006 4:39:13 PM

its not very responsible to shoot rockets from apartment buildings and mosques if you give a shit about your civilians nearby

8/7/2006 4:40:04 PM

a picture is worth a thousand words. no discussion needed.

8/7/2006 4:40:42 PM

there were no civilians there. they were all hexbollah fighters.

sure, they were right infront of an apartment building, but it could be empty for all we know.

[Edited on August 7, 2006 at 4:41 PM. Reason : ^ because that's the best you can do, a cartoon. otherwise you would have posted the other pic.]

8/7/2006 4:40:50 PM

hey i like the way you used a jewish propaganda cartoon to prove the validity of your propaganda.

8/7/2006 4:41:49 PM

joe... wait for it.

8/7/2006 4:42:16 PM

Quote :

"there were no civilians there. they were all hexbollah fighters"

but the news said there were civilians killed

8/7/2006 4:43:28 PM

oh LOL you're right, because all those inflated casualty statistics aren't hizbollah propaganda. gg

8/7/2006 4:44:13 PM

treetwista, my post was a response to hemotrollin, not you.

wait for the pic he will post.

^ pulling statements out of one's ass without any shred of proof is a sign of having lost. got any proof that the stats are inflated and/or skewed?

[Edited on August 7, 2006 at 4:46 PM. Reason : ]

8/7/2006 4:44:50 PM

does who your post was directed at change the validity of my response?

8/7/2006 4:46:30 PM

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/08/07/D8JBLITG0.html

i guess you'll probably leave this thread now, like you did when i posted pics of hizbollah hiding behind civilians

8/7/2006 4:48:22 PM

hey what do you know? treetwista was right again

Quote :

"The Lebanese prime minister says only one person died in an Israeli air raid on the southern village of Houla, lowering the death toll from 40."

Quote :

"hey remember when the prime minister of lebanon said there were 40 people killed in a missile strike then later he said there was actually 1 person killed "

8/7/2006 4:49:14 PM

because NO ONE has ever gotten initial causualty reports wrong during a war.

Ever.

stupid hezbollahlovinglebaneseprimeministerterroristmotherfucker.

8/7/2006 4:51:43 PM

If the Lebanese death toll includes 29 soldiers and at least 53 guerrillas, than shouldn't the numbers next to "are lebanese soldiers, hezbollah guerrilas" read 82/617 (13%) ?

And 524/617 is not 91%

[Edited on August 7, 2006 at 4:54 PM. Reason : ]

8/7/2006 4:52:46 PM

http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/745828.html

8/7/2006 4:55:33 PM

treetwista, we are on completely different tracks.

hemotrollin and i are talking about hezbollah using human shields. you are talking about some specific incident.

but hemotrollin is also talking about the same incident now.

well hemotrollin, if anything, that shows that when wrong information comes out, it is corrected by the lebanese.

8/7/2006 4:55:47 PM

good point gimpy. i fucked up my math, and then propagated it without checking.

524/617 (91%) are lebanese civilians

so lets correct everything now:

Israel total kills are 485/578 (84%) lebanese civilians.

i guess israel ain't so bad after all.




[Edited on August 7, 2006 at 4:58 PM. Reason : ]

8/7/2006 4:55:52 PM

Quote :

""are lebanese soldiers, hezbollah guerrilas" read 82/617 (13%) ?"

hahahaha you idiot.

you think lebanese soldiers are part of this conflict????

they are bystanders, and should be counted with civilians.

JESUS.

8/7/2006 4:57:41 PM

Lebanese soldiers should be fighting Hizbollah - why aren't they?

8/7/2006 4:59:44 PM

And was joe putting them together like that supposed to imply that they are separate?

8/7/2006 4:59:48 PM

Quote :

"Excoriator All American 9505 Posts user info edit post Hey Trapezius, I like how you stfu after I posted pictures of Hizbollah terrorists hiding behind civilians in that other thread 8/7/2006 4:39:13 PM TreeTwista10 ^I'm with stupid 35005 Posts user info edit post its not very responsible to shoot rockets from apartment buildings and mosques if you give a shit about your civilians nearby"

Exactly. I wouldn't put the deaths of these civilians squarely on the Jews. Might as well hold hexbollah responsible for setting up camp next door to them, and hold the 30% of the civillians that support hezbollah responsible themselves for allowing a millitant faction to set up shop among them.

Would you enjoy it if there were military bases in your neighborhood?

8/7/2006 5:01:34 PM

just for fairness to the all the war lovers here, lets count lebanese military deaths as military targets. israel is attacking lebanon, after all.

my math was fucked up earlier, and the AP report has 11 deaths unspecified. with mistakes corrected, and the prime ministers announcement taken into effect we have:



hezbollah has killed 97 people. They are largely targeting and killing israeli military

61/97 (63%) are israeli military
36/97 (37%) are civilians

while the israelis have killed 578 people, they have overwhelmingly targeted and killed lebanese civilians

82/578 (14%) are lebanese soldiers, hezbollah guerrilas.
485/578 (84%) are lebanese civilians




[Edited on August 7, 2006 at 5:08 PM. Reason : (2%) are unreported as to combatant type]

8/7/2006 5:06:16 PM

I think you're conflating killing with targetting

an easy mistake, but I'm not gonna insult you like that so we'll just assume you're deliberately trying to twist the facts here.

[Edited on August 7, 2006 at 5:09 PM. Reason : s]

8/7/2006 5:08:54 PM

so one of the most highly sophisticated armies in the world doesnt know what they're targetting?

8/7/2006 5:11:04 PM

they are targetting hezbollah. its not their fault that hezbollah is sitting next to civilians. that's on hizbollah's head (no, really - get it? lol!!!1)

[Edited on August 7, 2006 at 5:13 PM. Reason : s]

8/7/2006 5:12:25 PM

fighting an organized military vs. fighting a terrorist militia

I wonder which situation is going to be easier to isolate attacks to soldiers

hmm...

8/7/2006 5:13:40 PM

^^ thats a convenient rationale. and widely propagated by the pro-israeli war hawks. never mind theres not any proof you can offer on this, but i suppose it helps everyone sleep easy.



[Edited on August 7, 2006 at 5:15 PM. Reason : ]

8/7/2006 5:14:31 PM

ohhhh i get it, you're arguing that hezbollah is not camped out within the civilian lebanese infrastructure.

/discussion

8/7/2006 5:16:03 PM

here is the incontrovertible proof... dammit you schmoe, are you blind????

8/7/2006 5:16:45 PM

^is that scene not a perfect description of what is going on??

8/7/2006 5:18:04 PM

OH I GET IT







Jews wear watches.

8/7/2006 5:18:06 PM

you know what time it is

8/7/2006 8:05:10 PM

you know its funny.

when i was a kid, we studied the american revolution.

and talked about how "the Patriots" would employ non-conventional fighting techniques against the British troops.

the British Army (who outnumbered, outclassed, and outgunned us) wore their bright red coats, marched shoulder to shoulder, with rows deep in tight formation. like professional soldiers right?

american patriots, however, wouldnt wear uniforms, just their regular clothes. they would hide behind trees, in backs of buildings, and lay low in farmlands, and pick off the British troops as they marched around in their impressive formations.

the Brits complained loudly that the Americans were fighting like savage barbarians, that we didnt respect the rules of warfare, that we should behave like normal armies, wear uniforms and march in tight formations.

but, even as a kids in elementary school, we all understood the simple truth:

Quote :

"Duh, Motherfucker. Duh."

so, here it is. if youre on our side, youre a freedom fighting patriot. if youre on the other side, youre a guerilla terrorist. if you can control the media, you define the terms. It's pretty clear that the lebanese don't have a great amount of influence on western media.




[Edited on August 7, 2006 at 8:22 PM. Reason : ]

8/7/2006 8:10:46 PM

What is your point? Strategically, no one is saying that they aren't smart to resort to the tactics they are resorting to. They know that high civilian casualties will bring world scorn and help them indirectly. That doesn't mean they are free from the burden of their actions and undeserving of any blame for those same civilian deaths. Those same civilians are also the dumbasses for not being more vocal in ousting a militant terrorist regimen from within their midst. Remember, 30% of the Lebanese support Hezbollah. I ask again, would you like if armed cells were setting up shop next door to you firing off rockets?

[Edited on August 7, 2006 at 8:23 PM. Reason : a]

8/7/2006 8:22:17 PM