per today's N & O.

http://www.newsobserver.com/102/story/471409.html

Quote :

"Civic leaders in Rocky Mount see a golden future in the sleepy campus of N.C. Wesleyan College. They envision it as UNC-Rocky Mount. For months, several business and civic leaders have lobbied legislators and UNC leaders to turn the Methodist-affiliated, private, liberal-arts college into the 17th university of the UNC system. Their political persuasion worked, to a point. Legislation passed this summer orders the UNC system to study the possibility. Rocky Mount-area boosters say a branch of the UNC system would be just what the area needs for an economic jump-start. "This thing makes so much sense to me it's almost scary," said Tom Betts, a retired Rocky Mount insurance broker and former chairman of the college's board, who has helped spearhead the effort. UNC would gain a 200-acre campus -- an asset worth $80 million or more -- to make room for future demand for higher education as North Carolina's population grows, Betts said. Too many young people leave Eastern North Carolina for college and never return, he said. A UNC campus could draw students and jobs to an area that struggles economically. "Unfortunately, there are parts of Eastern North Carolina that are almost like a Third World country," Betts said. The idea has gained some powerful backers, including legislators from Edgecombe, Nash and Wilson counties. Senate leader Marc Basnight's staff conducted preliminary research in a "confidential white paper," according to records at the UNC system headquarters. UNC leaders aren't sold on the idea, despite the political pressure. UNC President Erskine Bowles met with the community leaders just weeks after he took office. They wanted to move quickly to convert the college. Bowles didn't. "I couldn't have been more candid in any way," Bowles said. "I said I felt we had a real responsibility to meet the educational needs of the people of that area, but we also had a responsibility to the taxpayers to do it in the most efficient, effective manner possible." Running a small college is an expensive way to deliver education, Bowles said. In recent years, UNC has enlarged its smaller campuses to teach more students in a more economical way. The university system also is devising new ways to serve working adults who need more education as the economy shifts. UNC plans a major push in its online programs. Several campuses are collaborating with community colleges to offer courses at a higher education center in Hickory. East Carolina and N.C. State universities already offer classes on the Wesleyan campus, in a building called the Gateway Technology Center. N.C. Wesleyan, founded 50 years ago, has struggled financially in the past. Like most small, private colleges, it depends heavily on students' tuition. Its annual budget of $19 million includes more than $13 million in tuition revenue, according to 2005-06 figures compiled by Basnight's office. It gets a small amount of money each year from the United Methodist Church, and its invested funds total about $8 million. The college has 900 students on the main campus and 1,300 in its off-campus degree programs in Morrisville and Goldsboro. Those programs, aimed at working adults, have helped the college's bottom line. Six years ago, the Southern Association of Colleges and Schools, a major accrediting agency, placed the college on a warning for problems in its off-campus programs. Those issues were solved, said Ian Newbould, president of the college. The idea for converting Wesleyan into a public university began with community leaders, Newbould said. It's not about saving the college, he said. "Who knows what will come of it, because the college is fine," he said. "If it would mean something even better for the college, well, that would be fine, too." Dr. Will Pittman, chairman of the Wesleyan board, said a public university would do wonders for the region and breathe new life into the campus. "It would allow the campus to grow much more rapidly in terms of enrollment and offerings," he said. But, he added, "it's not something we're depending on." A conversion could be complicated, with legal and financial implications of transferring a private college's assets, students and faculty to the state. Ties to the Methodist Church would have to be severed. The college's mission would have to be clearly defined. The legislation suggests a focus on areas such as science, technology, education and economic development. The study will cost the UNC system $50,000. That might not be enough to explore all the details. One consultant quoted a cost of $200,000 to $250,000 for a thorough study or $75,000 to $80,000 "if you know where you want to come out," according to e-mail from Alan Mabe, UNC's vice president for academic planning, to other UNC staff members. Bowles promised the study would be legitimate, with "no preconditions, with no assumption that we knew the answer ahead of time," he said. Sen. A.B. Swindell, a Democrat from Nashville, said he was quickly persuaded by local business and civic leaders when he was approached. A UNC campus in Rocky Mount would help the area and a fast-growing state, he said. "We've got to look and see how we are going to be positioned in 20 years," he said. "We need math, science and biotechnology emphasis right here, now, today." Bowles said he's open-minded. "

[Edited on August 16, 2006 at 11:28 AM. Reason : .]

8/16/2006 11:26:08 AM

Interesting. I went there for a year. I think it would be a positive move for the college to become a UNC system university.

8/16/2006 2:08:49 PM

"Unfortunately, there are parts of Eastern North Carolina that are almost like a Third World country,"

8/16/2006 2:11:00 PM

Seems like a logical location for another UNC campus. I'd imagine it would be a real mess converting a private college to a public institution though (as the article partially covers).

I still want the James B Hunt School of Law here at NCSU first  

8/16/2006 2:14:07 PM

I think NC should probably focus on K-12 education rather than higher education.

8/16/2006 2:15:31 PM

^thats been the main problem with the UNC system for over half a century now.

I have had several conversations with former Commisioner of Labor John Brooks at my work. He the first General Assembly employee back in the early '60s and a lawyer from Greenville/Raleigh. He basically told me that before the 1950s, UNC Chapel Hill was top ten in the nation in Chemistry,History, English and Pol.Science but when the chancellor/President's office changed over during this time, the main financial contributor (big Texas oil shareholder -from Elizabeth City, NC) influenced the university and the entire system by focusing the system through business owners instead of academics.

This is why Kenan-Flagler Business school is so big and not the English/History/Chem depts.

This hurt the overall UNC system because it created a business/corporate approach to academics while excluding those who should benefit from it (taxpayers/in-state students)

This is one of the reasons there are already 16 UNC institutions in the state. By giving a little bit to each school, the fatcats can feel comfortable in excluding average/above avg. students from the major universities.

[Edited on August 16, 2006 at 2:33 PM. Reason : .]

8/16/2006 2:26:15 PM

I live in Rocky Mount now and drive by Wesleyan everyday going to work. Wesleyan in the past year has opened a technology center, meant to help students take online courses through Carolina and State at the building.

It's pretty much the size of Meredith. There are dorms onsite and they started up a D-III football team a couple years ago, but it's too small to garner UNC interest.

^ I'm perfectly fine with that. What's the point in getting a degree if you can't get a job with it after you graduate?

Joke: How do you get a Chapel Hill graduate off your front porch?

You pay him for the pizza.

[Edited on August 16, 2006 at 4:13 PM. Reason : /]

8/16/2006 4:07:21 PM

The Gateway Technology Center is for taking courses through ECU and NCSU, not UNC.

8/16/2006 4:08:52 PM

Might be a good time to buy land around Wesleyan. I could turn it into slum housing and bars in a decade or two.

8/16/2006 5:48:06 PM

My "perminant residence" is in Rocky Mount, and honestly, Rocky Mount sucks ass so bad, I dont see how they could draw more people to go to school there beacuse it sucks so bad.

8/16/2006 6:22:50 PM

there is nothing past 95 to the beach

do we really need anything out there

8/16/2006 7:01:22 PM

do we really need another third tier public university?

8/16/2006 7:17:19 PM

I really don't think Rocky Mount is the "third world country" part of Eastern NC, so that statement is ridiculous.

And ECU is further east.
As well as UNC-W.

[Edited on August 16, 2006 at 7:21 PM. Reason : s]

8/16/2006 7:21:24 PM

Are you kidding?? Have you been to Rocky Mt lately???
good lord.

8/16/2006 8:13:50 PM

the outlying parts of rocky mount outside the actual city can be kind of bad, third world like backwoods south america. The Ghetto of rocky mount can be like Beirut third world though, its pretty bad. I would feel better in Raleigh's ghetto than I do in Rocky Mount's

8/16/2006 8:45:01 PM

Yea I live in some of the "Third World Area" in Scotland Neck. The areas on the older eastern side of Rocky Mount are ghettoriffic and areas like Princeville are right bad as well.

I had thought about the whole argument about UNC-W and ECU, and your right to an extent. But Northeastern NC doesn't have much to offer students in the area that can't afford to move out, aside from black colleges like Elizabeth City State, small and fairly expensive liberal arts colleges like Wesleyan and Chowan College, or the community college system. I personally own a house up here and can't afford to drive to Raleigh to take classes at NCSU, though the option is there for some majors to take distance education at the Gateway Technology Center at Wesleyan right now. But if there was a real state supported University in this area, I think it would give folks a better chance that otherwise can't afford to move out of the area, and get stuck in community college systems or in dead-end minimum wage jobs.

Personally I'm a fan of Wesleyan, my dad graduated with a degree in Biology from there. But it was considered more of a fallback school for most people when I graduated. Nobody thought there was much of a chance for getting anything worthwhile in our area, and when they are gone, many of my friends have not and will not return to the area. I think its a really good idea and something that the state ought to look into more seriously.

8/16/2006 9:02:24 PM

yea, I for damn sure will not be returning to Rocky Mount, and about 85% of my friends wont be either, so they need something to attract people to live there, because right now, I can promise you I would have to be making $texas to live in Rocky Mount after college. Hell its not even worth capatalizing-rocky mount.

8/16/2006 9:31:51 PM

This money would really be better spent in the k-12 area than on another college.

For what it's worth, NC has one of the best community college systems in the country, and just about the best in terms of availability and number of campuses. There's nothing wrong with going to the tech school for two years and transferring.

8/16/2006 9:38:02 PM

^^ I work as an engineer at CDC (Cummins and Case engine factory) in Whitakers and have since I graduated from State in May 2004. (I live in a subdivision off Hunter Hill.) I'm from Havelock originally. There's only one job in Havelock: a Marine Corps base, and everything else in the city supports that base. Compared to that, Rocky Mount is a gold mine.

I'm not going to lie by saying the nightlife in Rocky Mount is fantastic or anything or it's an amazing city for entertainment (I go to Raleigh or Greenville for that). But you're halfway in between Raleigh and Greenville and only an hour from each, there is more than one job, and it's a hub for travel (where 64 and 95 meet).

I wouldn't say Rocky Mount (city limits) is third-world. Some places outside the city are if your point of view is a Manhatten penthouse you lived in your whole life. Maybe second-world would be more appropriate. But that's pretty much eastern NC cause most businesses don't plant there. Driving through Whitakers just makes me look in awe. There's an entire main street storefront with not a single business in it. Just a bunch of empty buildings, I am guessing they are for rent or owned by someone.

Compared to a lot of cities in North Carolina, Rocky Mount is pretty good. Take out the four military bases in eastern North Carolina and there is nothing save POS tourism. Unless you're in Charlotte, the Triad, or the Triangle, there's not a lot to our state as far as our generation in terms of employment and fun (beach weekend trips don't count). Maybe I'm just used to it and don't look at it in a big-city point of view. I have family that live in towns in central Indiana and eastern Kentucky that are 99% white and a substantial part of the population qualify for welfare.


[Edited on August 16, 2006 at 9:58 PM. Reason : /]

8/16/2006 9:56:05 PM

I usually do burnouts and set off fireworks in a subdivision off of hunter hill, it has a cul-de-sac in the back with no houses

8/16/2006 10:19:43 PM

As long as there is a plethora of fast food restaurants, wal-marts, etc. it won't be "third world" in or around Rocky Mount. That includes Pinetops, Tarboro, etc.

Go to some of the eastern NC counties where there is one grocery store, one gas station and no restaurants and I can understand.

8/16/2006 10:25:17 PM

Some of the neighboring counties are. Look at Northampton or Hertford or some places like that which are absolute shithole counties.

BTW, the night life might get better in another couple of years if Carolina Crossroads really kicks off like they say. Between the 1500 seat Randy Parton Theater under construction now, the new 20k seat ampitheater, aquarium, waterpark, and like 300k sq. feet of shopping space that is all scheduled to open next year,, as well as 5 new hotels and the Haliwa-Saponi Indian tribes Turtle Park theme park, there may be quite a bit going on around Roanoke Rapids in the next couple of years. Its supposed to be very much like Broadway on the beach, so maybe we will get some clubs there like Broadway has. Also some nice jobs are coming in with the Advanced Vehicle Research Center, so thats supposed to employ a lot of folks in high-end jobs working on cars, so its not just a bunch of minimum wage jobs for people in the area to get. But I would expect that it might just make Roanoke Rapids not be the shithole that it has been for the last 20 years since the mills closed.

8/17/2006 6:54:24 AM

lets just put this little misconception to rest: high end, educated employees are NOT going to start relocating next to a Dolly Parton theme park - I don't care what RR city government tells you.

The whole Parton adventure is a great idea in the short term; it will bring in a lot of redneck tourism and create a number of crappy dead-end jobs. But that is where it will end. No business in an industry with a future is gonna locate next to that blue-collar carnival.

[Edited on August 17, 2006 at 7:41 AM. Reason : s]

8/17/2006 7:39:01 AM

Quote :

"it will...create...jobs"

That's the key point of your statement. Halifax County has some trouble with jobs, and everything can only help.

8/17/2006 9:21:50 AM

whatever - you could have at least argued that the jobs being created will not be a dead-end for the area's development.

instead you argued that any job that is created, no matter what it is, will help and thats just so stupid I have no desire to discuss this further with you

8/17/2006 9:35:40 AM

Yea shit man its one less excuse for the deadbeat lazy ass motherfuckers that are around here on welfare and using the "There ain't no jobs here" excuse for not working.

I ain't saying SAS is gonna build a new office here, but I still think that between the new bigger airport, more jobs in the area and a city/county that is really devoted to getting business here by tax incentives, etc. that blue-collar jobs will still come around here.

8/17/2006 10:00:26 AM

ok well just remember what happened to the blue-collar mill jobs

you've got to plan for the future not just grab whatever looks easy at the time

8/17/2006 10:08:43 AM

So what are you saying? They should just do NOTHING unless they can land something like a major corporate biz? They'll be waiting around for fucking ever and never get anything. They got to take small steps before they can making fucking strides.

And your right they did lose a lot of blue-collar jobs, but that was partially based on the fact that all their eggs were in one basket. They had no job diversity. When the market tanked on it, they all moved to Mexico and closed down here. Tourism is one thing that can't be moved abroad really. In recent years they have had PCB moved in (auto sensors), Reser Foods, the Automotive Test Track, now the tourism stuff, etc. Hence if one tanks, the whole area isn't decimated.

8/17/2006 10:22:46 AM

[quote]I still want the James B Hunt School of Law School of Public Policy here at NCSU first <!--

8/17/2006 11:01:26 AM

fuck public policy, give me a law school so I can be part of its first class

besides, we can always have a John Edwards School of Public Policy if you want it  

8/17/2006 11:07:25 AM

We'll never get a law school unless Jim Goodnight gives us part of his fortune.

oh yeah, I was reading the Princeton reviews for NC Wesleyan and they are pretty weak. Barton College in Wilson had a much higher rating. The average SAT for Wesleyan students was in the 800s.

[Edited on August 17, 2006 at 11:24 AM. Reason : .]

8/17/2006 11:24:02 AM

Goodnight will fund State's B-School, which already exists, before he does a law school here

8/17/2006 11:30:54 AM

I'm still not convinced on this whole Dollywood Roanoke Rapids thing.
I personally think there is a good chance it will flop.
I'm not saying it definately will flop, but I wouldn't invest my money in it.

I've never been to Branson or wherever the other one is, but when I look at the one in Myrtle Beach I think it is successful in large part because it is in Myrtle Beach. Roanoke Rapids doesn't have much else to offer and it doesn't already have a strong tourist based economy to bring people in.

8/17/2006 11:31:52 AM

Quote :

"I still want the James B Hunt School of Law School of Public Policy here at NCSU first"

didn't they change the name of the depts of poli sci and something else to that during the summer?

i'd be for it if state appropriations weren't drying up. there're already 16 mouths at the table (17 depending on whether or not NCSSM gets money). the sound of UNC-Rocky Mount makes me want to throw up.

8/17/2006 11:42:13 AM

I wonder what this would mean for other small private colleges in the area. Louisburg College and Barton College are right down the road.

8/17/2006 1:20:35 PM

Quote :

"Roanoke Rapids doesn't have much else to offer and it doesn't already have a strong tourist based economy to bring people in."

It lives on I-95

8/17/2006 1:26:51 PM

How does funding work from the state? Won't another university take money from the pockets of the current universities?

8/17/2006 1:31:57 PM

^
this is North Carolina -- they'll just raise taxes

8/17/2006 1:34:26 PM

and then be in session for months trying to work out a new budget, right?

8/17/2006 1:36:37 PM

Quote :

"Bowles said he's open-minded. "If this study comes back and says this is the right thing for us to do, I'll support it," he said. "If it doesn't, I will fight it." "

It looks like the last line of the news article was cut off by the cut & paste. Does anyone know when this study will be done?

So far I like the idea. I've lived in Mt Airy (aka Mayberry), Raleigh, and Chapel Hill.. and rarely found myself as far east as Rocky Mount. On a map 95 looks like a good road for people passing through NC who don't want to spend any time (or money) here. I get some gratification from the idea that we could throw more stuff in their way between the RR thing and a UNC-Rocky Mount. Maybe NC could atleast be a stop over point on peoples path from florida to dc or new york. And higher education for more rural NC seems like a good thing too. Also the idea of a college becoming more secular appeals to me. But I’m no economist (only had 1 EC class - EC 205H), I don’t know how this would play out for the state, so I’m glad there’s atleast a study going on.

[Edited on August 17, 2006 at 2:18 PM. Reason : .]

8/17/2006 2:01:32 PM

Quote :

"It lives on I-95"

So do hundreds of other po-dunk towns from NY to FL for which nobody cares to stop.
Will this be NC's version of "South of the Border?"

8/17/2006 2:05:39 PM

Quote :

"didn't they change the name of the depts of poli sci and something else to that during the summer?"

Yeah, the School of Public and International Affairs...it's not exactly what I meant. I should have said the NC State University School of Science, Technology and Public Policy. It'd give us an opportunity to be on the cutting edge of unifying a genuine scientific knowledge (from medicine to engineering to agriculture) and policy development.

Oh, and TGD...we're never gonna get a law school. Not with Elon and UNC-C getting their law schools this year. Let it go

8/17/2006 2:22:52 PM

Ahaha I think its going to be more a of a mix of Branson and something like Smithfields outlet shopping.

The whole point is the RR area is the damn halfway point for folks, and aside from Smithfield, there is pretty much NO town on I-95 that has anything more than a couple of hotels and gas stations. Why the hell would anybody stop in here? The only strip of road more boring is 64 from 95 to Raleigh.

8/17/2006 2:55:09 PM

we're a research U. run them b*tches out of business.

8/17/2006 3:03:22 PM

this idea is just an academic welfare hole in the middle of a social welfare hole

the money would much better be spent elsewhere

8/17/2006 3:07:17 PM

Quote :

"The whole point is the RR area is the damn halfway point for folks"

Rocky Mount likes to tout itself as the halfway point too.

8/18/2006 1:26:23 AM

the more pit stops ppl make in our state, the more money they spend here, the better

the more possible half way points, the more chance that we get them to.

but this idea can't be sold on economics. i think more education for a more rural part of the state has to be key value to get people on board. although maybe educating people more will help economically too in the long run.

[Edited on August 18, 2006 at 1:47 AM. Reason : .]

8/18/2006 1:47:28 AM

^^Yea depending on where you leave from and shit, that area is. But Rocky Mounts problem is all their shit is on 64. You can ride down 95 and hardly know that you are passing one of the larger cities in the area. People don't want to have to drive far off the interstate to get somewhere, they want to see it as they drive by. Hence shit like South of the Border and Smithfield Outlets get a lot of interstate biz.

8/18/2006 7:00:18 AM

Now Wilson on the other hand ....

8/18/2006 1:05:26 PM

Quote :

"Will this be NC's version of "South of the Border?""

yes, which is why i'm opposed to it. How long has south of the border been around? what great strides has it made economically beyond the complex's own natural expansion?

8/18/2006 4:44:55 PM