http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/news/15518585.htm

bionic limbs, crazy shit.

9/14/2006 4:06:23 PM

I'm only two and a half years away from having chest-hands!

9/14/2006 4:11:19 PM

Quote :

"Ex-Marine Claudia Mitchell didn't lose her left arm in battle, but she is the first woman to be fitted with a thought-controlled bionic arm that the U.S. Defense Department plans to begin offering this year to soldiers who have lost limbs in Iraq and Afghanistan. A resident of Ellicott City, Md., who lost her arm in a motorcycle accident two years ago, Mitchell is slated to help military amputees adjust to bionic arms like hers, developed at the Rehabilitation Institute of Chicago. If they do as well as Mitchell, who can move her elbow and wrist at the same time--something not possible before with any motorized prosthesis--they will also be able to perform favorite activities more proficiently. Mitchell, 26, said she simply has to think to move her arm--a far cry, she said, from her first replacement limb, which was so hard to work that she gave up in tearful frustration. "I can flex my elbow, extend my elbow, open and close my hand with the mere thought of doing it," she said of her new arm Tuesday while in Chicago to help Rehabilitation Institute researchers test an even more advanced thought-controlled prototype. On Wednesday the team was in Washington, D.C., to show the experimental model to military brass. "I can carry a tray," Mitchell said. "I can open a jar. I can hold my Dagwood sandwich. I can hold fruit and vegetables while I cut them up. I can peel a banana. "This makes daily life much easier, especially in the kitchen; that's where I found the most difficulty in doing things with one hand. So I am much more adept in the kitchen now, which my family is pretty excited about." Mitchell is the fourth person to be successfully fitted with the bionic arm, which weighs about 6 pounds and costs between $60,000 and $75,000. She said she typically wears the arm two to eight hours a day. The four main nerves that used to connect the brain to the missing limb communicate with the computerized arm instead, a breakthrough pioneered by Dr. Todd Kuiken, director of the institute's Neural Engineering Center for Artificial Limbs and Center for Bionic Medicine. To do this the nerves are rerouted from the stump to muscles in the chest. The nerves still carry the electric signals from the brain that formerly activated the arm. By placing delicate sensors over the nerves these signals can be used to operate the artificial prosthesis, which is equipped with three motors and a small computer. "This arm feels very natural as far as the way I can flex and open and close my hand," said Mitchell, who served in the Marines for four years and is now on inactive reserve. "The first prosthesis I had, my frustration was out the roof. I would cry. It was extremely frustrating to the point where I wouldn't wear my arm. With this arm, all I have to do is think. I think I want my arm to go down, it goes down. I want my arm to go up, and here I go." Kuiken, who developed the bionic arm primarily with funding from the National Institutes of Health, said the work is moving into a new phase as part of an initiative by the Defense Advance Research Projects Agency to revolutionize prosthetic devices for amputee soldiers. Kuiken said he is working with doctors at Walter Reed and Brooke Army Medical Centers, where amputees are taken to recover. "We're hoping to be able to apply this technology to U.S. servicemen and women this year," he said. "We aren't doing a real great job with upper-limb prostheses. Our challenge is to restore function for people who have suffered limb loss." Earlier this year the defense agency awarded nearly $50 million to two teams of researchers with the goal of providing the most advanced medical and rehabilitative technologies for military personnel injured in the line of duty. Rehabilitation Institute scientists are working with both teams. One of the teams, led by the Applied Physics Laboratory of the Johns Hopkins University, will work on a bionic arm that can operate like a biological one, including the ability to feel objects and manipulate them with precise movements. The second team, headed by DEKA Research and Development Corp. in Manchester, N.H., will focus on providing near-human strength to the artificial arm. The possibility of making a bionic arm that can feel came to light with Jesse Sullivan, a double amputee from Tennessee who was the first person to receive the Rehabilitation Institute's thought-controlled prosthesis. Kuiken and his team were startled to discover that touching the skin over the chest muscles where the arm nerves had been transplanted gave Sullivan the feeling that a part of his hand was being touched. Working with Dr. Gregory Dumanian, a Northwestern Memorial Hospital plastic surgeon, Kuiken carefully rerouted Mitchell's arm nerves to an area on her chest about the diameter of a baseball. When the area is touched, she gets the sensation that precise areas of her missing hand are being touched. The idea, Kuiken said, is to develop sensors in an artificial hand that can sense such things as temperature and pressure and have them transmitted to amplifiers on her chest. When she takes a shower, Mitchell said, the small area on her chest senses whether the water is cold or hot, "but it's my hand feeling it." On Tuesday, Kuiken touched one area on the patch of skin and asked Mitchell what it felt like. She said her index finger below the knuckle. "And over here?" "My pinky." "

9/14/2006 4:12:23 PM

Quote :

"New bionic arm is almost like the real thing"

Which arm is the prosthetic?

[Edited on September 14, 2006 at 4:14 PM. Reason : 4]

9/14/2006 4:14:04 PM

And thus begins RoboSports!

9/14/2006 4:16:46 PM

starwarz geeks celebrate

9/14/2006 4:21:46 PM

holy shit.

i wonder if she could mod that sumbitch.

[Edited on September 14, 2006 at 4:23 PM. Reason : load linux on her arm]

9/14/2006 4:23:00 PM

Quote :

"starwarz geeks celebrate"

lol




Well damn, I'd like to test that out as a third arm. I don't see why it also can't be offered as an optional enhancement. I'd love a spare thought controlled appendage to perform certain tasks.

like masturbation

9/14/2006 4:28:13 PM

Not too long until robots who can "think" are created!!1

9/14/2006 4:40:20 PM

wonder how many tax dollars that thing costs

9/14/2006 4:42:23 PM

Worth every damn penny to preserve the veterans.


And they priced it at 60-75K for that prosthesis.

If you want my opinion, Congress would have known an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure and would have upgraded the body armor earlier in the war.

They made it political and spent all the money protecting vital organs so they could keep amputees alive rather than show concern for quality of life with better peripheral armor. Their goal was to only protect the head and chest so that a lower casualty number can suit their politics.

9/14/2006 4:48:23 PM

oh great

tax money to fund a war we shouldnt be fighting in the first place then

more tax money to repair the wounded in a war and give them stuff they dont need, like a friggon bionic arm

give me a break, what a waste of my money

9/14/2006 4:50:36 PM

I would think you would encourage this sort of R&D since your profile says you're a mech e student.

9/14/2006 4:53:06 PM

not when it isnt for a good cause

if you went off to war you should know the consequences, loss of life and even limb

if you lose a limb dont be expecting to get a bionic one unless you pay for it yourself

now if she is paying for it herself, by all means, but i highly doubt she is

i am all for advancement in any field but when it is for stupid shit like a war that shouldnt be fought and my tax money is paying for it, then i am going to have a problem

9/14/2006 4:56:17 PM

Why are engineers,
whose sole purpose in life is to keep their mouths shut and build things,
always getting so political?


You need to suspend your conscience and acknowledge that ill-gotten advancement in your particular field will reap you reward in the longrun.

9/14/2006 4:58:41 PM

Quote :

"she is the first woman to be fitted with a thought-controlled bionic arm that the U.S. Defense Department plans to begin offering this year to soldiers who have lost limbs in Iraq and Afghanistan"

Okay so the dumb, butch bitch that wanted to be all tough and like G. I. Jane is more deserving than a civilian woman that lost her arm (for example) pushing someone out of the way of a moving vehicle and had an arm destroyed by a car. :roll

God bless the United States of George W. Bush.

9/14/2006 5:28:25 PM

Okay so the civilian woman who was driving drunk and got in a wreck and lost her arm is more deserving that military veteran who was willing to give her own life.


God bless your bias.

9/14/2006 5:30:48 PM

Either way it's where the miiltary-industrial complex meets medical-mechanical R&D, and that is a very powerful thing.

9/14/2006 5:32:02 PM

Quote :

"They made it political and spent all the money protecting vital organs so they could keep amputees alive rather than show concern for quality of life with better peripheral armor. Their goal was to only protect the head and chest so that a lower casualty number can suit their politics."

Most of the soldiers who got the extra body armor don't wear it on patrol because it impedes movement so much.

9/14/2006 5:43:30 PM

ok then in an unbiased way tell me how a military woman is more deserving than a civilian woman OF ANYTHING

Signing up for the military doesn't make you Jesus.

9/14/2006 5:48:13 PM

Regardless of your opinions on the war, I think the government is responsible for the health and wellness of those it chooses to send in a combat zone. It's part of the package when they are luring you into signing up.

9/14/2006 5:50:20 PM

Quote :

"Worth every damn penny to preserve the veterans."

No it's not. With the money they could spend on this, they could spend it much more profitably elsewhere. Furthermore, these things are going to cost about $20,000. Whether the government or the individual is spending this money, they are going to find better reasons. The gov can spend it on a bunch of other causes, and the individual might prefer to use that money on college funds for their kids, etc.


The actual value of this research is the multi-disceplenary technological advance. It will require innovation in materials, power sources, control software, sensors, biotech.

[Edited on September 14, 2006 at 5:59 PM. Reason : sadf]

9/14/2006 5:54:30 PM

hey you guys realize she didn't lose the arm in the war, right

she lost it in a motorcycle accident

9/14/2006 5:58:41 PM

We're at the technological capability of producing thought controlled technologies that could greatly improve the quality of people's lives.

Ignoring the costs and the choice in whom receives it, finding a strong impetus to produce this on a mass scale will eventually improve everyone's quality of life.

Our country has always been about building better weapons, and the technology to destroy has always lagged far behind our technology to build in this country. We need to come off a war with such an appealing cause, like all the amputees we'll be receiving into society, to finally put this in motion.

9/14/2006 5:59:23 PM

Quote :

" Why are engineers, whose sole purpose in life is to keep their mouths shut and build things, always getting so political? "

9/14/2006 5:59:29 PM

my point is that the government doesn't choose who goes into "the combat zone" as you put it, this isn't Finland or your country of the choosing that requires military service

YOU choose to sign up, so therefore why does that make you more deserving than someone who didn't? To me that's bullshit. Say you've got a homemaker, a student, a doctor, and a soldier, and you mean to tell me that one is more deserving than the other? Each one could be doing what she wants to do and fulfilling a crucial role in American society, that does not create a hierarchy that should cause for selection such as this.

9/14/2006 6:00:59 PM

^^^ no offense, but helping amputees is not an inspiring cause -- it's a depressing one. Furthermore, the impact if very limited and the reward for most people is dubious. This is not the place to look for great causes.

Great causes are ones that are not depressing, have wide appeal, impact, and promise material benefit. If religious people weren't so fucking stupid, I'd say cloning (of parts), gene therapy, stem cells, all that bio shit would be better candidates for a big push.

The bionic arms are still cool, though.

[Edited on September 14, 2006 at 6:05 PM. Reason : sdf]

9/14/2006 6:04:47 PM

^ ^ I agree with you, and that's why we are able to live to the quality that we can in this country. I wouldn't change that.

I don't believe that this going to veterans should mean that others get second choice, but you've also got to note that the legislation in place providing healthcare for the veterans will be exclusive of such egalitarian philosophies, and the practical implementation will show a bias in giving this technology to the veterans over the poor civilians who also suffer tragedy. It has nothing to do with their choice in serving, and more to do with healthcare coverage that is afforded to the military by Congressional law irrespective of the current state of technology in treatment.

[Edited on September 14, 2006 at 6:05 PM. Reason : ^]

9/14/2006 6:04:52 PM

Good idea Ryan

Just remove all military funding for bionic limb enhancement / creation.

Let someone else pay to develop it.





Brilliant Thinking

9/14/2006 6:05:31 PM

Quote :

"hey you guys realize she didn't lose the arm in the war, right she lost it in a motorcycle accident "

Nerdchick that's why I secretely love you
so, to the fucking morons that just argued against me

hahahahaha

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

please tell me why she is still more deserving?

and regardless of your answer, I will continue to laugh

and I never said that military funding should be removed by the way

[Edited on September 14, 2006 at 6:09 PM. Reason : ]

9/14/2006 6:08:46 PM

Why do you think they fund projects like this?

Because soldiers and obviously (as in this case) civilians will as well.


Are you related to DJ Lauren?

9/14/2006 6:10:47 PM

please, it's not like there aren't plethora of funds to get this researched in the US, whether by DoD, NIH, NSF, or whoever

and no relation that I know of

9/14/2006 6:22:09 PM

DOD (darpa) funds this.

9/14/2006 6:29:06 PM

well DoD funds things that aren't necessarily intended to only benefit military personnel

so if all women were to eligible to receive bionic limbs, I don't think that the DoD would have to cut funding like Mr. Quinn suggests

I'm not 100% on this, so by all means, correct me if I am wrong.

9/14/2006 6:37:40 PM

Quote :

"Say you've got a homemaker, a student, a doctor, and a soldier, and you mean to tell me that one is more deserving than the other?"

considering this woman is 2 (most likely 3) of these 4 things, i think she is just as deserving. btw, not sure how many 1 armed doctors there are.

the fact that she lost the arm in a motorcycle accident shows even more that it's not just because she is a veteran.

9/14/2006 6:39:10 PM

Jesus tittyfucking Christ, people. Learn to read, for one.

Quote :

"hey you guys realize she didn't lose the arm in the war, right she lost it in a motorcycle accident"

Secondly, do none of you see the broader technological implications of successful deployment of directly mind-controlled machines?

This isn't just about putting bionic arms on people who are missing limbs. Successful deployment of a "neurally-controlled device", period, represents a crossing of a threshold into some really Whack Shit™ in terms of possible technologies. Teleoperation, anyone? Surgery-by-Internet is the first thing that comes to mind. How about construction mecha? Subterranean and deep-sea construction and exploration?

Quote :

"i am all for advancement in any field but when it is for stupid shit like a war that shouldnt be fought and my tax money is paying for it, then i am going to have a problem"

Quote :

"tax money to fund a war we shouldnt be fighting in the first place then more tax money to repair the wounded in a war and give them stuff they dont need, like a friggon bionic arm give me a break, what a waste of my money"

Quote :

"not when it isnt for a good cause"

MrUniverse, you are a fucking idiot. Military personnel don't get to pick and choose which orders they follow. If they could, they wouldn't form a military. Read up on the WWII Spanish underground for what you get in terms of combat effectiveness when you drop chain of command.

Take your "fuck soldiers, they knew what they were getting into!" politics and shove it up your ass—like it or not, they're still the ones who are out there getting themselves shot up and killed on our behalf. I don't think the "wars" in Iraq and Afghanistan (they're not even proper wars, they're policing actions, and half-assed ones at that...and did you even remember Afghanistan?) are legitimate either, but that doesn't make it acceptable to just abandon the poor bastards who get sent into their meat grinders and come back missing pieces.

[Edited on September 14, 2006 at 7:23 PM. Reason : .]

9/14/2006 7:17:14 PM

Also, I would rather the government spent $20k giving some woman who lost her arm in a motorcycle accident a new arm than the government spend $20k paying a bunch of experimental "artists" to be idiots on my tax dollars.

Or fund surveillance cameras in Podunk, AK.

Or fund million-dollar office parks in Podunk, OK.

9/14/2006 7:26:23 PM

This woman is a guinea pig for this technology. The testing is done by and for the military, but the tech, when more refined and cheaper, will hit the mass market a little later.

Where this woman has muscle spasms in her chest when she wants to move something, Joe-Blow who has amputated limbs coverage with his Geico insurance gets a much better model, that maybe connects directly to the severed nerves.

That's pretty much how all the breakthrough tech and science works now. Research done with military/government funding washes down to everyone else.

This person is not more deserving than anyone else, but she was in the right place at the right time and got picked to get this limb.

Here's another link for a different person, getting similar technology: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14790160/wid/11915773/?GT1=8506

[Edited on September 14, 2006 at 7:49 PM. Reason : ]

9/14/2006 7:46:49 PM

hey Stiletto you fucking slant eyed moron who cant seem to comprehend what i said

i said the war that was being fought shouldnt be fought right now, so that soldier that had it arm blown off shouldnt be there in the first place... doh te doh, no fucking kidding they dont get to pick their orders, but if there is no war they dont have any orders... get it now?

it is a fucking circle, if bush wasnt such a fuck up president no one would be getting their arm blown off

and this advancement could be used on someone that was born without an arm other then some fucking moron who is fighting a war that shouldnt be going on anyway. how about that

why not take a special case girl or boy that was born without an arm and help them better their life

this war isnt saving my freedom either so dont give me the bullshti line well if they werent over there we wouldnt be able to pick and choose who got the bionic arm

idiots

9/14/2006 8:35:34 PM

Quote :

"I'm only two and a half years away from having chest-hands!"

rofl

9/14/2006 8:37:33 PM

^^
Oh I didn't disagree with you at all about the war being retarded. It was the part about leaving people to rot for not deserting or otherwise not going along with the system.

Quote :

"and this advancement could be used on someone that was born without an arm other then some fucking moron who is fighting a war that shouldnt be going on anyway. how about that"

Wouldn't work, at least not at such an early stage in the technology. They wouldn't have the actual nerves necessary for working the thing, unless you want to reassign nerves from the person's back or something. Think a little, eh?

And the point remains, the subject was not a war casualty. I'm not even sure that her military service had anything to do with her being chosen.

You're the one who turned this into a "fuck the soldiers" and "fuck Bush" rant, not me. If anything, this was an example of government funding going into a useful R&D program for once.

[Edited on September 14, 2006 at 8:43 PM. Reason : .]

9/14/2006 8:39:25 PM

Dear Soap Box,

Please come claim your bastard child. Is not behaving well with other children and tends to ramble on about 4-5 different topics, each which deserve their own thread.

Sincerely,
The Lougue

9/14/2006 9:08:59 PM

MrUniverse:

1. I am going to assume that you would agree that we do in fact need a military. If this is not the case let me know.

2. I am also going to assume that you are against a draft. Once again, let me know if my assumption is wrong.

In an all-volunteer force like ours, the government has to provide some incentives for people to join up. They do this in several ways such as: money for college, reduced rate home loans, specialized training, etc. Another major incentive is free health care, basically the agreement is that if you join , you will be taken care of by whatever means necessary.

It is part of the package when you sign your name. You are giving up certain freedoms in exchange for a set package of benefits. Now if the government tells you from the get go that if you get your arm blown off (and I do realize that she lost her arm in an auto accident) you are on your own, then fine. I would then agree that she should have to pay for it herself. However, that's not the deal people make when they sign up. The government has a responsibilty based on the promises given during recruitment to take care of the soldiers in the best way possible.

I don't go along with the theory that just because you were in the military you are some kind of hero or something, but it would be foolish to assume that everyone is there because they are "morons". I am quite sure that there are plenty that are smarter than both you and I.

9/15/2006 1:49:20 AM

^ thank you

9/15/2006 2:34:09 AM

^^ Actually, there is no such promise, and even if there were, the only thing that matters is the contract. Recruitment promises don't mean a damn thing, as many find out after they sign up.

I have no doubt that this will be used as an advertising tool, but it's certainly not an entitlement. If a recruit believe that it is, that's their own fault for not understanding how the real world and contracts work.

9/15/2006 2:47:17 AM

9/15/2006 2:51:12 AM

(I havent read the thread, I'm just stating my opinion)

I see that the bionic arms are designed for "soldiers who have lost limbs in Iraq and Afghanistan" what makes them any more deserving than a person who lost their arm in an accident that wasnt there fault? I'm not saying we should give a bionic arm to some asshat drunk driver that fucked himself up but I mean insurance sure as hell isnt going to pay for a bionic arm.

I want to see joe#s and saps post in here with their opinions

9/15/2006 3:00:05 AM

^^^Semantics. I realize that verbal promises don't mean anything, and certainly not everyone is entitled to a free bionic arm give-away. However, each person is given an intensive medical screening before joining and just before leaving (if it is requested). When leaving, if anything is seriously wrong with you that wasn't when you got there and you can prove it, you are entitled to receive benefits from the VA based on the amount of the disability.

[Edited on September 15, 2006 at 3:01 AM. Reason : ^^^]

9/15/2006 3:01:29 AM

the truth is: most people who lose limbs (especially arms) are soldiers, thus the DOD is the one who funds most of the research in this field.

9/15/2006 3:14:16 AM

I want to know if it has a "vibrate" mode.

I would totally pay $60,000 for a vibrating hand.

[Edited on September 15, 2006 at 8:09 AM. Reason : hello!]

9/15/2006 8:08:30 AM