Quote :

"Man Shoots Would-Be Intruder As He Flees Scene POSTED: 9:59 pm EDT September 19, 2006 UPDATED: 9:34 am EDT September 20, 2006 SMITHFIELD, N.C. -- Is it self-defense to shoot a potential intruder who's running away? That's a question investigators are trying to answer in Johnston County, where a man shot a 19-year-old who allegedly tried to rob his home. When 62-year-old Randle Holmes heard the lock on his side door pop, he said he had every right to shoot the potential intruder. He said he was protecting himself and his wife, Patsy, who is disabled after suffering two strokes."

I am listening to G105 and they are talking about this story. What do you think should happen to the man?

When I heard it, I was like "Hell yeah, get'em old man!" If he does have to go to court do you really think that the jury would prosecute?

9/20/2006 9:42:59 AM

he did the right thing.

bleeding-heart commie democrats will cry [attempted?] murder, though....

[Edited on September 20, 2006 at 9:46 AM. Reason :

9/20/2006 9:44:51 AM

If someone is no longer a threat (running away) then you have no right to shoot them in the back... I mean, you can shoot them, but you deserve to go to jail.

9/20/2006 9:48:46 AM

you think the democrat's will cry murder...hmmm I'm a dem and I liked it, I guess i am middle of the road person

9/20/2006 9:48:52 AM

it is certainly one of the grayer areas. we'd need more information than that about the situation to judge accordingly. if the burglar was armed and actually came in the house, id say it is alot more in favor of the old guy. if it was just some dumb kid, who popped the lock, saw someone is home, and ran, then i think it is pretty crazy to allow someone to shoot him (particularly if it was someone like the chest or head).

9/20/2006 9:50:13 AM

bleeding-heart commie democrats ≠ democrats

[Edited on September 20, 2006 at 9:50 AM. Reason :

9/20/2006 9:50:17 AM

Quote :

"If someone is no longer a threat (running away) then you have no right to shoot them in the back... I mean, you can shoot them, but you deserve to go to jail."

agreed

9/20/2006 9:51:36 AM

^totally wrong and unamerican

[Edited on September 20, 2006 at 9:54 AM. Reason : perhaps people need more access to effective non-lethal weapons.....]

9/20/2006 9:53:26 AM

i mean, in most cases (again we dont know specifics), i wouldnt lock the old man up for attempted murder.

id probably restrict his right to own a firearm, however, and add something else on there (be it a short stint in jail, a heavy fine, or the like).

9/20/2006 9:54:02 AM

restrict his right to own firearms? What???!?!

Sorry man, there's this thing called natural law, and oh yeah, another thing called the 2nd amendment.

This man did NOTHING wrong.

He should get his own holiday.

9/20/2006 9:56:39 AM

JOHNSTON COUNTY

JOHN STON

9/20/2006 9:57:38 AM

again, you dont know the specifics of the case. i dont think anyone should be able to shoot someone who has done them any bit of wrong.

depending on the situation, the man displayed an inability to use a firearm properly. he wasnt protecting his family from someone who was running away, he was PROBABLY just scared or enacting vigilante justice. there's no room for that here. do you think all petty theifs have the right to be executed if caught by someone with a gun?

[Edited on September 20, 2006 at 10:02 AM. Reason : .]

9/20/2006 10:00:32 AM

The only time in NC it is allowable to use lethal force is if you have sufficient cause to fear for your life. When someone is running away from you, they are not trying to kill you. You have no legal leg to stand on if you shoot them. Now morally, that's a different story. But I'm going to be the last one saying "this kid derserved to get shot".

9/20/2006 10:00:38 AM

Quote :

"If someone is no longer a threat (running away) then you have no right to shoot them in the back... I mean, you can shoot them, but you deserve to go to jail."

What if he broke in, raped the guys wife, then ran away.
What if he broke in, stabbed the guys wife in the arm, then ran away.
What if he broke in, kicked the guy in the balls, then ran away.
What if he broke in, came into the living room, picked up the TV, then ran away with the TV.
What if he broke in, picked up the TV, got scared, dropped it, then ran away.
What if he broke in, went into the bedroom, saw the guy, went out of the house without touching anything or anyone, then ran away.
Now finally, what if he was attempting to break in, with intentions unknown to the owner, got scared, then ran away.

From the above scenarios, going from worst case to best case, where is the line drawn of when you're allowed to shoot a guy in the back as he runs away.

Now personally, I'm inclined to agree with you in this situation (shouldn't shoot people in general as the run away), but I know there has to be a "tipping point" as to when it's considered OK.

9/20/2006 10:00:46 AM

Maybe if more burglars were shot whether they were running away or still a threat we'd have less burglary. GG Old man. If I was on a jury for his trial I'd vote to acquit.

9/20/2006 10:01:01 AM

right or wrong, stories like this deter theft.

The more people hear about scumbag thieves getting shot, the fewer scumbag thieves will attempt to break and enter.....

Period.

[Edited on September 20, 2006 at 10:05 AM. Reason : ^exactly.

9/20/2006 10:03:39 AM

anyone who decides to try to break into someones home deserves whatever happens to them between the time they enter the property and leave it.

If the guy chased him in his car and followed him to his home and then shot him, well thats a little different.

In my opinion, if he is still on the mans property, he has no rights at that point.

9/20/2006 10:13:00 AM

"if he's still on the mans property" is pretty arbitrary. i find it silly to distinguish the 2 possible situations:

old man is in bedroom. chases burglar down stairs, out door, shoots him on lawn.

AND

old man is in living room. chases man out door, down street, and shoots him.

[Edited on September 20, 2006 at 10:19 AM. Reason : i think my main point is the chase. if he shot him when he turned around it isnt as bad]

9/20/2006 10:19:02 AM

god i love being from Johnston County

9/20/2006 10:23:09 AM

^HAHAHA

The law, I always thought, only gave you a right to shoot the intruder if he was BLOCKING your only way to escape or if he himself had a gun pulled on you.


But everyone loves to think "once somebody is on MY LAND, I have a right to shoot that bastard"...which really just lands you in court and, if your white lucky, you won't go to jail.

9/20/2006 10:25:55 AM

You CANNOT shoot someone for simply being on your property (unless you're in Texas...then it's ok )

You CANNOT shoot someone for stealing your stuff

You CANNOT shoot someone just because they entered your house

The law states that the ONLY time you can use lethal force is when you have reason to believe that the intruder means to KILL you or another innocent person. This is why, when you have to shoot someone, you better make sure they're dead because otherwise they'll testify that they didn't want to kill you and you're in a shitstorm of trouble then!

[Edited on September 20, 2006 at 10:31 AM. Reason : ]

9/20/2006 10:31:04 AM

Quote :

"You CANNOT shoot someone just because they entered your house"

im pretty sure you can if they come inside.

most of the time if they break in in the middle of the night they aren't there to bring you cookies.

[Edited on September 20, 2006 at 10:49 AM. Reason : ]

9/20/2006 10:48:21 AM

my thought are that if it goes to court, ppl will be like "aww old man's house getting broke into, and he has a disabled wife" They will end up letting him off. And damn it was like 2 in the morning and the old man shoot the motherfucker while pulling off in a car, that dude deserves a medal!

So if put in the same situation where someone was trying to break into your house and you just lost him, you wouldnt go outside and shoot at the car?

9/20/2006 10:49:16 AM

The intruder was committed, just because he lost his balls halfway through doesnt mean he didnt know what could happen. Who's to say he wouldnt come back next time with a gun and maybe even kill/kidnap, then everyone's gonna be sayin OMG look what happened. Morally the old guy is right, legally the way the law is worded yeah he could get fined. Depends how the cops feel about it and interpret it.

9/20/2006 10:53:32 AM

Quote :

"im pretty sure you can if they come inside. most of the time if they break in in the middle of the night they aren't there to bring you cookies."

You have to provide proof that they intended not just to harm you, but to kill you. This is to protect people from getting killed just for being stupid. Lethal actions require a lethal cause. Just because someone wants to hurt you doesn't mean you can use lethal force. Of course it's not hard to say that you feared for your life and that's why you shot someone. Then the law is on your side.

9/20/2006 10:57:45 AM

Quote :

"If someone is no longer a threat (running away) then you have no right to shoot them in the back... "

Like if they run away, go get their gun, and drive back to the tailgate party to shoot you.

[/gas on the fire]

9/20/2006 11:12:55 AM

Personally if someone broke in my house and my wife was in a delicated medical condition I will kill you. If you break out running I'll shoot you in the leg but either way you threatened my life by being in my house

I don't know if you have a gun. I don't know if you have any kind of weapons. I don't know if you're alone or not so I eliminate you as a threat and then look for more intruders. It truly depends if I thought I had time to call the cops. Typical 911 call takes 2 minutes. I have been put ON HOLD at 911 once when I witnessed a hit and run and an ambulance was needed.

911 is not something I can trust. EVEN after calling 911, it takes 5-30 minutes for a cop to respond. I'm not insulting cops but the system.

I know why the law is the way it is because of the string of murders by people claiming that a person was breaking in their home and shooting them as they run out the door. But that law is flawed because it assumes that the average joe is a killer.

9/20/2006 11:14:36 AM

9/20/2006 11:15:54 AM

Didnt this happen in Durham or Chapel Hill like 10 years ago? The guy got away with it

9/20/2006 11:18:57 AM

Yeah, i mean, the guy will get away with it. In Johnston county, hell yes he will get away with it. I'm just stating the law...judges can interpret how they want

9/20/2006 11:42:48 AM

Quote :

"You have to provide proof that they intended not just to harm you, but to kill you."

wrong. all you have to provide is their intent to harm you. you can't kill them for entering the house, but the moment they pick up something inside the house in a fashion that could be construed in any way as being used for attacking you, you can drop them where they are. if he picks up a TV, you could see that as a visible threat of him throwing it at you.

If I was going to attack someone that broke into my house, I'd do so with a pocket knife unless I had reason to believe they had a gun on them. if you can get in close enough proximity to attack someone with a knife, then it will be apparent to the cops and a judge that the attacker had harmful intentions in mind. you also won't end up with liberals trying to turn the case into a straw man argument for gun control.

[Edited on September 20, 2006 at 11:43 AM. Reason : more]

9/20/2006 11:43:23 AM

Whether it's "right" or "wrong" is more of an issue for The SoapBox. Whether it's legal is something else to be considered.



[Edited on September 20, 2006 at 11:43 AM. Reason : bah, stupid small image]

9/20/2006 11:43:42 AM

Wolfpacker06, Actually at night you can shoot someone if they break into your house. By law in North Carolina a person who breaks into a house at night is considered armed. So at night time if they break in the in a criminal court of law you have every right to shoot them. In civil law however the person's family will sue you for wrongful death and take everything you own.

Personally i believe that shooting someone in the back if they are running away is wrong. If they are in your house and you sneak up behind them then fire away. Its sad that Criminals get to have more rights for breaking in your house than you do to defend it.

9/20/2006 11:48:46 AM

^^exactly. right/wrong is grey area. it's certainly not legal.

-without knowing every detail, i think that it's not only illegal, but wrong. that said, i don't really care all that much. yeah, the old guy shouldn't have shot him, but if that little shit hadn't been trying to break in, it wouldn't have happened.

-i don't think you can shoot someone specifically because they're in your house, but you can if you feel threatened (in terms of death OR serious physical harm). i don't think (in NC) you are obligated to run away if you're in your house, either (in FL, you aren't obligated to run away ANYWHERE!) as far as i'm concerned, though, if someone breaks into my house, the burden is on him to convince me with the quickness that he poses no threat to my safety.

-if i have to shoot someone, i'm going to keep shooting until he's no longer a threat to me...either physically or through creative testimony.

9/20/2006 12:40:02 PM

itll obviously blur the argument that the "old man" is 62 and his wife is "disabled", that the "burglar" is preying on the weak and elderly. what juror isnt gonna think "gee, what if that was my grandparents? i dont want them hurt by some punk kid drug addict trying to steal money for crack"

9/20/2006 12:44:51 PM

Quote :

"If someone is no longer a threat (running away) then you have no right to shoot them in the back... I mean, you can shoot them, but you deserve to go to jail."

STFU!! If you were in this old guy's situation, you would shoot that asshole too. Just because he is running away does not mean he isn't heading back to the car to get his gun or headed around to the back of the house to jump your ass. If he's dumb enough to try and break in, he deserves to be shot.

9/20/2006 12:49:13 PM

the old man was brave! he shot someone in the back! way to go old man! i hope you sleep well at night!

9/20/2006 12:59:32 PM

I am not going to give someone the chance to get armed and come back to hurt me and my family.

Lets say i drew my gun on the intruder, and he turned and ran. I would be scared he would come back to hurt me.

Your getting shot, then im going to put my 2nd gun thats unregistered in your hand.

9/20/2006 1:01:44 PM

call the police people. shooting someone running away is cold blooded and should be punished. put this man away.

even if someone comes into your house rapes your daughter then runs away you cant go find them and kill them.

9/20/2006 1:02:16 PM

^^hope you like prison.

9/20/2006 1:02:52 PM

Was it illegal? Almost certainly.

Will he be convicted by a jury? I doubt it.

9/20/2006 1:04:57 PM

Break into my house and see if i end up in prison

9/20/2006 1:05:14 PM

he shot the guy as he was trying to get away in his car. he was driving away, too. he wasn't driving at the old man. shooting someone in this situation is breaking the law. it's an open and shut case. oh wait, it's johston county, never mind.

9/20/2006 1:07:08 PM

I never said what he did wasnt against the law.

As someone above posted, there is a difference between what is right, and what is lawful.

[Edited on September 20, 2006 at 1:08 PM. Reason : .]

9/20/2006 1:07:45 PM

so in this case murder is morally right?

9/20/2006 1:09:45 PM

it's not murder, yet anyway. basically an old man shot four bullets into a car that was clearly trying to flee the scene. this is a vigalante act; we have a fucking police/justice system for a reason. one man can't decide that a person needs to die for his actions, especially when that person is clearly not trying to murder anyone in the first place.

Quote :

""It was just trying to stop the car," said Holmes."

bullshit.

[Edited on September 20, 2006 at 1:14 PM. Reason : .]

9/20/2006 1:14:13 PM

Quote :

"If someone is no longer a threat (running away) then you have no right to shoot them in the back... I mean, you can shoot them, but you deserve to go to jail."

9/20/2006 1:18:39 PM

In texas you can shoot over property

in florida this guy could have shot the bad guy

in NC, he broke the law, that being said if I was on the jury, he never would be convicted of it, but he still technically broke the law

if he had shot him through the door before he made it into the house he would have been legal, but in NC once they are in, or out, and no longer pose a htreat to you or anyone else youc annot shoot them

but if he had been in the house and made a threatening gesture, motion (here is your defense in this instance) he could have been blasted, otherwise you can't do anything but hide and call 911 and warn him that you are armed

[Edited on September 20, 2006 at 1:34 PM. Reason : .]

9/20/2006 1:33:53 PM

definitely sucks, but i just dont think its right to kill someone over property.

9/20/2006 3:18:58 PM

Quote :

"Maybe if more burglars were shot whether they were running away or still a threat we'd have less burglary."

I'm normally against shooting people in the back, but a very good point here.

9/20/2006 3:20:55 PM